Would you like to see the invincibility of guards removed...

Adremal

No

Kwoung wrote: »

As for your suggestion, I just see a bunch of griefing by filling up a town with guards, much akin to the opposite, which is creating huge piles of fast spawning mobs dead bodies.

This. Guards and NPCs. Killing guards wouldn't work because of this. It's ok for single-player titles, but a multiplayer title has to compromise between immersion and playability.
Also being able to easily kill guards would negate the reason for stealthing and paying attention to guards movements while thieving / assassinating people.

_Zathras_

No

I voted no, because otherwise there isn't any potential accountability and/or punishment for illegal acts.

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

And as for 'immersion'... I don't suffer from that, thankfully. Oh, the guards are a blatant game mechanic? That's fine, doesn't bother me. Any more than PCs with goofy names and glowing tattoos, bunny-hopping around town on the piles of flaming lava rocks they call mounts, do. Or the million other things that seem like they'd also be bad for this "immersion" thing. /shrug

Exactly. The proverbial horse has left that barn.

kojou

Yes

From an immersion standpoint I would prefer they had implemented guards differently.

I liked Xaraan's suggestion:

xaraan wrote: »

yes, only because "my immersion" - as cheesy as that sounds sometimes, it's hard to feel like I'm needed when they could just send this super guard out to do any quest they ask me to do.

I liked what they did in Fable - just keep sending more and more guards after you the more you kill and just keep driving up your bounty PLUS give you no benefit to killing them (no xp or drops). They could even add a temporary town ban if you killed enough of them in one area - not a IRL type ban, but an in-game one where you'd get auto attacked for going there even if you cleared your bounty gold wise.

but, I understand why they didn't do it this way, because sweaty try hards will be sweaty try hards... and even with no rewards I could see someone "trying out their build" and leaving a pile of guard corpses. Also, with many guards I can imagine it negatively impacting the servers, and causing players games to lag.

I suppose some guards could have a spell that sends the player to a "prison" in oblivion for 10 minutes if a player resists and stands ground, or a guard "sniper" could come out with a one shot undodgeable snipe.

They could also continue to stop the player with dialog (pay bounty or fight) to the point where it is too annoying to continue fighting. Maybe after the 3rd time the player refuses to pay the bounty, the guard teleports the player to prison or binds them to the ground with a spell (i.e. Ozara's spear in VSO).

I feel like there are a lot of non-immersion breaking options they could have taken, but it would have probably taken more work than making the guard invincible.

Sylvermynx

No

It's fine the way it is.

Necrotech_Master

See Comment

just as a note, the guards DO already have around 10 mil hp (its like closer to 7.8 mil hp) if you use some addons that show the target hp outside of the normal health bar

from what i have heard WoW has guards, which are killable, but it takes like a full raid worth of people to actually kill them

our guards already do increasing dmg with every hit they get on you and WILL eventually 1 shot even the tankiest of tanks after a certain period of time, so even if the guards were killable, i doubt anyone would be able to solo 8 mil hp before the guard killed you anyway (especially if your a squishier dmg dealer)

the only issue i have with invulnerable guards is when they are indoors, as there is effectively no way to escape from them to get OUT of the door once you are in combat, you are just going to die (you cant use door while in combat, and you cant kill a guard)

spartaxoxo

No

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

the only issue i have with invulnerable guards is when they are indoors, as there is effectively no way to escape from them to get OUT of the door once you are in combat, you are just going to die (you cant use door while in combat, and you cant kill a guard)

If you invis well enough without being hit, you can exit the door.

Necrotech_Master

See Comment

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

the only issue i have with invulnerable guards is when they are indoors, as there is effectively no way to escape from them to get OUT of the door once you are in combat, you are just going to die (you cant use door while in combat, and you cant kill a guard)

If you invis well enough without being hit, you can exit the door.

true, but not many toons have that good of invis AND the guards do have an anti-stealth move similar to the revealing flare, so unless your fast too your going to get revealed (very bad if you tried to use an invis pot with 45 sec cooldown getting revealed 5 sec into effect)

Amottica

No

Kwoung wrote: »

Killing guards is simply showing off, other games allow it and it serves no purpose than some max level well geared player going into town to show how "uber" they are. As for your suggestion, I just see a bunch of griefing by filling up a town with guards, much akin to the opposite, which is creating huge piles of fast spawning mobs dead bodies.

I agree. I would also add that the guards are nothing more than a minor nuisance based on my experience. Easy to avoid and in most cases easy to escape when one becomes careless and gets caught by one.

BXR_Lonestar

See Comment

I don't think it should be totally removed, but I think it would make sense to be able to eliminate them by using the blade of woe.

spartaxoxo

No

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

the only issue i have with invulnerable guards is when they are indoors, as there is effectively no way to escape from them to get OUT of the door once you are in combat, you are just going to die (you cant use door while in combat, and you cant kill a guard)

If you invis well enough without being hit, you can exit the door.

true, but not many toons have that good of invis AND the guards do have an anti-stealth move similar to the revealing flare, so unless your fast too your going to get revealed (very bad if you tried to use an invis pot with 45 sec cooldown getting revealed 5 sec into effect)

I mean even if you aren't a nightblade, stealth passives and gear alongside a invis pot is gonna help even in pretty tight corners if you pop in a good spot.

If you're not even doing that, then you're trying to do the hardest justice activity without being built to do justice activities. You can still succeed but it will be pretty hard, as it should be. That's not a problem, it's the vulnerability aiding in making justice a progressive activity

amapola76

Danikat wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

yes, only because "my immersion" - as cheesy as that sounds sometimes, it's hard to feel like I'm needed when they could just send this super guard out to do any quest they ask me to do.

I liked what they did in Fable - just keep sending more and more guards after you the more you kill and just keep driving up your bounty PLUS give you no benefit to killing them (no xp or drops). They could even add a temporary town ban if you killed enough of them in one area - not a IRL type ban, but an in-game one where you'd get auto attacked for going there even if you cleared your bounty gold wise.

That's ok in a single-player game because there's only ever going to be 1 person at a time doing it. Things like that get problematic when you add hundreds of other players.

For a start if each player fighting guards spawns more guards then multiple people fighting guards in the same area could very quickly overwhelm the server with the number of guards it would need to spawn and then it crashes. Before that point you have towns which are just battle grounds full of guards and corpses, it would be even more of a mess than duelling, especially for those players who care about immersion.

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

I mean there is opportunity for some kind of bounty hunter system. What if after a certain level of bounty the whole world effectively becomes PvP for you. And players that take you out get bounty rewards. I mean this could only work if guards weren’t invincible.

ZOS tried to develop a system like that but found it was impossible to come up with a version that wouldn't be exploited by players, either taking turns farming each other or simply griefing other players by camping locations like the entrance to thieves dens to attack anyone going in or out.

This, basically. I trust myself to not abuse the ability to kill guards, but I don't trust other people.

Wolfpaw

Yes

Some great nostalgia attacking major hubs/enemy faction's city in WoW.

Reebofmoon

Yes

I think it'd be fun if you attack a guard long enough you instantly flag for free for all pvp so on top of other players trying to kill you more and more guards show up LOL.

Vevvev

No

No, because I'd slaughter them all and keep on slaughtering them all till there's just as many dead guards as enemies. I know how much HP they have thanks to addons and stuff, and I can burn them down given enough time.

SydneyGrey

No

No, because then the game will just constantly be filled with dead guards everywhere and there would be no accountability for stealing or murder.

SilverBride

No

I remember trying to level in lowbie zones in WoW and not being able to because high level players from the other faction kept killing the quest givers.

Some NPCs should not be killable to avoid possible griefing situations.

_Zathras_

No

SilverBride wrote: »

I remember trying to level in lowbie zones in WoW and not being able to because high level players from the other faction kept killing the quest givers.

Some NPCs should not be killable to avoid possible griefing situations.

I remember this happening in EQ. An evil faction player killing a NPC that the good faction used, for easy xp but sometimes also to grief. Sometimes the NPC was simply for protection, someone to run to when you had a train behind you, or a vendor.

Some NPCs should remain untouchable.

Sylvermynx

No

SilverBride wrote: »

I remember trying to level in lowbie zones in WoW and not being able to because high level players from the other faction kept killing the quest givers.

Some NPCs should not be killable to avoid possible griefing situations.

Yep. I remember that too. Painful.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Yes

Not quite sure I am on board with your specific mechanic, but I would not be opposed to making guards killable. Certainly, they could call for reinforcements in one way or another. They would need to be very very tough to kill.

I remember thinking when the justice system was first introduced, that if guards really acted like very hard to kill bosses, you could have PVE raid groups trying to take over a town. Haha.

I get why the system is the way it is, but it does bother me a bit that they are completely un-killable from an immersion standpoint. You would have to be very careful if you changed it, because we cant have guard killing be a trivial way to circumvent the entire justice system.

Jodynn

Yes

Ever play a traditional elder scrolls game and *** off a guard? Yeah, I loved the thrill of standing a chance, of course higher level they were easy so.. fix that.

I think they should be obscenly hard, but not unkillable.

Tandor

No

Jodynn wrote: »

Ever play a traditional elder scrolls game and *** off a guard? Yeah, I loved the thrill of standing a chance, of course higher level they were easy so.. fix that.

I think they should be obscenly hard, but not unkillable.

The problem as we've seen in other games is that even if you make guards obscenely hard for one player to kill, they are a walkover for a guild rampaging through a city and laying waste to every guard in sight.

Jusey1

No

Narvuntien wrote: »

They would have to do a lot more damage in general.

Guards do more damage the longer you are in combat with them already... A single guard will always eventually kill you in a single hit no matter how much sustain you get.

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

And as for 'immersion'... I don't suffer from that, thankfully. Oh, the guards are a blatant game mechanic? That's fine, doesn't bother me. Any more than PCs with goofy names and glowing tattoos, bunny-hopping around town on the piles of flaming lava rocks they call mounts, do. Or the million other things that seem like they'd also be bad for this "immersion" thing. /shrug

Also, this. "Immersion breaking" is such a terrible argument to use in a game like ESO due to the amount of cosmetics, mechanics, etc that is in the game or has to be in the game which WILL break immersion no matter. Like, you would have to change A LOT about ESO if you want to fix every immersion breaking element that is in the game, and that's just selfish thing to desire...

You want the developers to work so hard to undo so much of their own game just so your immersion doesn't break every now and then?... Really? You need a stronger argument and piece of evidence on why guards should be killable to convince me on that one. I think it's a great idea to keep them invincible due to keeping the peace in towns, making doing crimes have adrenaline rush of some kind, etc...

Call_of_Red_Mountain

See Comment

Sometimes...

drsalvation

Yes

I think they could be killable, but attacking a guard will put you in a PvP state where other players can kill you (but only if you attack/kill the guard, so you can still rob stuff in peace, but killing a guard will allow other players to help them - or help you)
Of course, it will be chaotic at first, but who cares at this point? It's just as immersive as speaking to an NPC in anvil who's standing right near their own corpse.

Tandor

No

drsalvation wrote: »

I think they could be killable, but attacking a guard will put you in a PvP state where other players can kill you (but only if you attack/kill the guard, so you can still rob stuff in peace, but killing a guard will allow other players to help them - or help you)
Of course, it will be chaotic at first, but who cares at this point? It's just as immersive as speaking to an NPC in anvil who's standing right near their own corpse.

Open to abuse. Keep PvP out of PvE zones in general and cities in particular.

Kalik_Gold

Yes

Yes, if alliances mattered and certain races/alliances weren't allowed in certain cities. Same could benefit Vampires and other creatures that offend townsfolk and guards.

Unkillable guards break my immersion on how strong my character is.

pleximus

No

No. They have their specific role in guarding the people in towns (even if they fail miserably at times).

luen79rwb17_ESO

No

The justice system is outdated and boring. Guards arent precisely the main reason for it.

Dark_Lord_Kuro

Yes

I say make them killable by blade of woe only
Best of both world
Thief and assasin get their immersion and other people arent stuck with more fight in the city

They also could be made succeptible to the vampire feed, this wouln't kill them and put a kill on sight level of bounty on the player

I think its a fair compromise

ACamaroGuy

Yes

If they can stun you, kill you then take your gold and remove stolen items after death, then yes they should be killable