"Living Vines" Warden ability needs a rework.

Sauce_B055

Grow vines to embrace you or the lowest health ally in front of you for 10 seconds.
The vines heal the target for [900 / 912 / 922 / 933] Health each time they take damage.
This effect can occur once every 1 second.

To be fair, it does exactly what it says it does, but that's the problem. It doesn't take anything else but current health into account, making the ability needlessly difficult to use.
For example, if you're at full health with 20k, but an ally infront of you is at 50% with 21k, the ability will still target you.
Also, it'll keep targeting yourself regardless of whether the ability is already active, until someone else takes enough damage to have lower current health than you.

For the ability to be viable, it needs a proper priority list:
Apply on the most injured target first, as they're likely currently taking damage.
If all targets are at max health, apply on the target with the lowest total health.
If a target already has the ability applied, prioritize someone else.
If all targets have the ability applied, re-apply it on the target whos ability is first to run out.

Furthermore, I'd like to suggest a duration increase for the ability to allow for pre-casting before entering combat.
If the ability can be active for 20-30 seconds but still only heal 10 times, you'll be far less likely to waste health ticks.

Chilly-McFreeze

I have to admit, I always thought those smart heals use current health percentage as deciding factor. But I don't play healers, so Idk.

AcadianPaladin

Currently I don't use the skill and the OP does a nice job of outlining why. And suggesting some sound improvements.

Ksariyu

Personally I do use the ability, but I agree it can be frustrating to use at times. I'm not convinced though that the skill should even use the Smart Heal tech. The reason I say this is that this often causes the skill to target someone who simply took a big hit from a boss mechanic, but then doesn't take further damage to proc the heal from the skill. Something more specifically targeted like Nature's Grasp would allow you to apply the ability to exactly who is taking damage at that moment, without them needing to be critical health where you'd probably rather use Spores or a Resto ability anyway.

That said, if they'd rather keep it with the current targeting system, then I do like your suggestions. My only change would be maybe to have it target the ally with the highest Max HP when everyone is 100%, as it's usually the tank that you'd want to pre-buff with this skill.

Greek_Hellspawn

The rework it needs is to be turned into a proper burst heal that scales from max magicka and spell damage, which warden lacks, like all other classes have.

Ksariyu

@Greek_Hellspawn I strongly disagree with this. Wardens are meant to be more of a HoT based healing class, whereas Templars take the more bursty route. You still have Enchanted Growth and, in a real pinch, Bursting Vines if you absolutely need quick heals, but I'd much rather see them maintain class diversity where possible rather than make every class do everything the same. That's kind of how we ended up in the situation we're in now with every class being nearly identical. Let's not further push that.

FrancisCrawford

I use it occasionally solo and otherwise never.

Greek_Hellspawn

Ksariyu wrote: »

@Greek_Hellspawn I strongly disagree with this. Wardens are meant to be more of a HoT based healing class, whereas Templars take the more bursty route. You still have Enchanted Growth and, in a real pinch, Bursting Vines if you absolutely need quick heals, but I'd much rather see them maintain class diversity where possible rather than make every class do everything the same. That's kind of how we ended up in the situation we're in now with every class being nearly identical. Let's not further push that.

Every competitive magden pvper will disagree with you, hots are good but when getting bursted down, then you absolutely need a burst heal.
Enchanted growth is aoe heal not single target
Bursting vines requires a target ally so it is also trash
Forget class diversity it is long gone, has already died many patches ago

ESO_Nightingale

Greek_Hellspawn wrote: »

Ksariyu wrote: »

@Greek_Hellspawn I strongly disagree with this. Wardens are meant to be more of a HoT based healing class, whereas Templars take the more bursty route. You still have Enchanted Growth and, in a real pinch, Bursting Vines if you absolutely need quick heals, but I'd much rather see them maintain class diversity where possible rather than make every class do everything the same. That's kind of how we ended up in the situation we're in now with every class being nearly identical. Let's not further push that.

Every competitive magden pvper will disagree with you, hots are good but when getting bursted down, then you absolutely need a burst heal.
Enchanted growth is aoe heal not single target
Bursting vines requires a target ally so it is also trash
Forget class diversity it is long gone, has already died many patches ago

Yeah, having major mending rr with a good tooltip is nice and all but it doesn't actually save you against burst. Nothing does within reason. Trellis, Blessing of Restoration and Enchanted Growth heal for practically nothing. Budding is a 2 GCD heal, so while it's tooltip is good, it's incredibly hard to actually use it to save yourself when being bursted. But it's fine as is, as a great group burst heal. It shouldn't do everything. Arctic Blast can heal huge numbers, but when it's at the point where you're able to heal a ton with it, you also have no damage. so it's fair like that, since doubling down on tankiness to have a great heal is obnoxious to fight against. This morph also shouldn't heal anyway because it should be an actual damage and offensive stun skill. not this jack of all trades abomination.

Our class healing was seemingly designed around the fact that we have easy access to major mending, so everything heals overall less but is supposed to be made up for with major mending. but major mending and other healing was nerfed. In order for any of our burst heals to get to the same value as the base single target burst heals that all other classes have, major mending doesn't even get close to gapping that bridge. It would if enchanted growth healed for 20% more on self, or if living trellis healed for 65% more (maybe with a cost increase included for balance.) or, maybe if shield shields actually did something again, that'd help solve the problem because we'd have an answer to burst. but as it is right now, it's a disaster.

Ksariyu

Greek_Hellspawn wrote: »

Every competitive magden pvper will disagree with you, hots are good but when getting bursted down, then you absolutely need a burst heal.
Enchanted growth is aoe heal not single target
Bursting vines requires a target ally so it is also trash
Forget class diversity it is long gone, has already died many patches ago

Healing isn't supposed to save you from burst. A properly executed burst is supposed to be effective, relative to the skill/risk required to pull them off. An instant "save me" button shouldn't counter that. Further, Wardens can stack more HoTs than any other class, which already increases their survivability during a burst. Finally, with Lotus active, you can LA + Enchanted Growth and you get a burst heal that's just barely less than what every other class has.

I'll admit I'm not a hardcore PvPer, but I'll bet there are other ways to fix that issue.

ESO_Nightingale

Ksariyu wrote: »

I'll admit I'm not a hardcore PvPer

this explains your comment.

LeHarrt91

Yeah for a PvE Healer all the HoTs are great, but in PvP you cant really afford to slot 4 different heals to stay alive as you will lack in damage etc.
And there are classes that can run 1 Burst heal (which can tooltip for 18K), plus 1 or 2 HoTs, where as warden has to slot Arctic, Trellis, Rapid Regen, Tree Ulti, and still not have the healing potential as others.
HoTs alone are not enough because there is to much micro management of them all.

El_Borracho

I was surprised to see so many healers talking about this skill. I use it on a warden tank. Works pretty well

Iriidius

somehow on my warden the ability heals only allies and not myself and the german tooltip of the skill also forgets the you and states that it only heals my allies. So maybe the skill is bugged for me.
How do i get enaugh heal on my stamina warden to survive sustained pressure?

Ksariyu

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

this explains your comment.

Maybe I don't PvP much in ESO (Because really why would you in its current state), but I do hardcore PvP in other non-MMOs. My experience there tells me that if a burst is so unavoidable and unpredictable that only a single burst heal can possibly keep you alive, then there's a bigger problem with the overall balance of bursts, or with that specific one. Similarly, if a burst heal is so necessary that every class NEEDS to have one, then burst healing may be overtuned.

LeHarrt91 wrote: »

Yeah for a PvE Healer all the HoTs are great, but in PvP you cant really afford to slot 4 different heals to stay alive as you will lack in damage etc.
And there are classes that can run 1 Burst heal (which can tooltip for 18K), plus 1 or 2 HoTs, where as warden has to slot Arctic, Trellis, Rapid Regen, Tree Ulti, and still not have the healing potential as others.
HoTs alone are not enough because there is to much micro management of them all.

Again, Lotus (Which you will probably already have for damage) and Spores will get you a burst that's pretty darn close to other classes. You also have access to Annulment, which can even help you before you get hit.

Syrpynt

Iriidius wrote: »

How do i get enaugh heal on my stamina warden to survive sustained pressure?

Face away from allies and keep growin' them mushrooms. 😂

But seriously, our burst heal as stam healers sucks. Would be better if it was a burst heal that was based on the total damage taken--and a resource recovery method (depending on morph), so:

• Stamina Vines: Allies recover 200 Stamina every 2 seconds while damaging the afflicted enemy. After the effect ends, the players in a 4m radius restore 10% of the damage done to the enemy, as health.

• Magicka Vines: Allies recover 200 Magicka every 2 seconds while damaging the afflicted enemy. After the effect ends, the players in a 4m radius restore 10% of the damage done to the enemy, as health.

Last detail: Make the vines have a travel time, and single targeted, (like Nighblade's Siphoning skill "Crippling Grasp").

The resource recovery is weak, and matches the theme for Wardens. The heal based on damage done is like Warden's version of Templar's damaging "Purifying Light".

It's a time delayed burst heal, keeps identities separate, but similar/mirrored, as well as making the skill useful.

Ksariyu

Syrpynt wrote: »

Face away from allies and keep growin' them mushrooms. 😂

But seriously, our burst heal as stam healers sucks. Would be better if it was a burst heal that was based on the total damage taken--and a resource recovery method (depending on morph), so:

• Stamina Vines: Allies recover 200 Stamina every 2 seconds while damaging the afflicted enemy. After the effect ends, the players in a 4m radius restore 10% of the damage done to the enemy, as health.

• Magicka Vines: Allies recover 200 Magicka every 2 seconds while damaging the afflicted enemy. After the effect ends, the players in a 4m radius restore 10% of the damage done to the enemy, as health.

Last detail: Make the vines have a travel time, and single targeted, (like Nighblade's Siphoning skill "Crippling Grasp").

The resource recovery is weak, and matches the theme for Wardens. The heal based on damage done is like Warden's version of Templar's damaging "Purifying Light".

It's a time delayed burst heal, keeps identities separate, but similar/mirrored, as well as making the skill useful.

So you want to give extra resource regen to the class with one of the best resource regen skills (Netch), along with making vines a worse version of Orb and Force Siphon. At that point, might as well use Budding Seeds, you'll get the burst faster. Not to mention you're stealing the mechanic of one of the few unique skills left then stating it keeps identities separate.

FeedbackOnly

It's range and targeting feels like worst in game. Fun skill but it's about time this gets adjustments please