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• https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/684716
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• https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/684716
Unpopular opinion: ESO is NOT pay-to-win
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Kwoung✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Winning in a social game has a different meaning as I explained to other posters above.
Just want to point out, that it is impossible to win in a social game. If it is social, it is social... if you can win, by definition it is a competition. If it is a competition, there is scoring and a clear means in which someone can achieve a "win", generally a leaderboard of some type in most games. The leaderboards in ESO cover Alliance War, Trials, Arenas and Battlegrounds... that's it, there are no other ways to win. These are also very clear, you achieved a score of X by completing activity Y, putting you above other players rankings. If the game doesn't rank it, you can't win it... by purchasing items or otherwise, sorry.
There are plenty of ways to "win" in a social game. Being social and being competitive are not mutually exclusive.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/591253/100-000-000-gold-housing-competition-pc-na-pc-eu#latest
Your link is to a player generated event, which is not a core feature of the game, so nothing that happened in that event could be considered PTW. If the players hosting and judging that event, decided that the winners had to have crown homes and crown furniture to win, well that is on them... but has zero to do with the game itself and how it functions. See my post directly above yours for clarification. ZOS has control of their game, they don't have control over every random idea someone comes up with to have fun in the game... including player made competitions. At best, you could blame the guy hosting the event for making a PTW event, but that is not on ZOS and doesn't make ESO a PTW game.
Ok...but earlier you suggested....well let me just quote youas for the safe exchange of crowns, there are numerous places that will literally guarantee the transaction, my guild hosts its own and we too guarantee the transaction between our members. I am not here to argue about crown exchanges or their rates though. I am simply stating there are secure methods for which to exchange gold for crowns, and it is a supported feature of the game, regardless of whether ZOS hosts a direct exchange themselves or not.
So you believe that the game can not be "pay to win" because of crown gifting where a 3rd party source that takes place outside of the game makes the crown/gold exhange? But a 3rd party contest being held for the game by ZOS approved sponsors "Official Partners" does not count towards the argument?
Do you not think that this line of thought is not a bit hypocritical? I am asking this as an honest question.
No, I don't think it is hypocritical nor are the two even remotely related to each other. The fact is, you can buy (almost) any item in the crown store for gold via a safe secure method.
The other is simply player created content, not run by ZOS and not rated/tracked in the game. It is run by just another player, who happens to show their face on screen over on Youtube or Twitch. During the last event, ZOS had links on their page to "Streamers" who are partners or whatever, more than half of which had less than 100 followers, the one I watched to get my free crate had 16 followers (and it was obvious why in short order).
Those Streamers, while awesome for the community spreading game knowledge and giving ZOS free marketing, are doing this as a job, it is how the good ones make their living, their "events", giveaways and contests are aimed at getting them more subs and viewers, even if the stuff they do is fun and community building. Also, none of those player events include more than the tiniest fraction of the overall playerbase, while leaderboards on the other hand are there to see, in game, by everyone, and everyone who plays has an equal chance to get on them, if they so choose (skill withstanding).
Had you not linked that advert earlier, I would have never heard of it, when I looked at it, it had 5 replies and 370 views, not exactly an overwhelming response or reach. I also did not see a popup for it when I logged in, telling me I should go visit that groups Discord to participate in a "officially sanctioned" housing event, and I doubt I ever will.
I do however, know numerous players that risked buying crowns in zone chat and got burned, and while it took a while for ZOS to resolve their report, they were made whole in the end. YMMV on that though.0 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »I don’t think that’s an unpopular opinion at all, I think all rational people understand this isn’t pay to win. There is not a single thing in the crown store that gives a gameplay advantage that isn’t also available in-game.
The ayelid well. People using it to always start Battlegrounds with ult and able to requeue immediately. Someone else has to go farm it which can significantly increase wait times or more commonly just start the match at a disadvantage. I only recently learned it was being used that way by someone asking for everyone to start in the same ult state.
I don't know the item or BGs, but what you describe sounds like Pay for Convenience, as the item is available in the game and if it's that essential for BGs then there's no reason why players can't farm it beforehand.
The ayelid well is only available in the cash shop, and replenishes all your resources after an extremely short channel, including your ultimate. It's vastly superior to trying to build up before requeuing the normal way, as instantly requeuing makes it more likely you'll get into another BGs quickly. This is why a lot of people simply opt to build what they can while waiting for queue to pop then going in as is instead of farming ult and then queuing.
The antiquity you're thinking of only produces a blue light, it doesn't give you anything for combat.
The well you speak of is still not P2W as it does not make a player character more powerful than it can be from what is obtainable in-game. It is merely paid for convenience. I am not suggesting you are saying otherwise. Just commenting on the item's use.
In general I agree with you. For Battlegrounds, I think it's probably a little p2w. If you start with ult and your enemy doesn't, that's a pretty big advantage.
I think they could probably fix the only small aspects that are p2w by making the skills only able to be purchased at 50+ and making everyone start in the same ultimate state in BGs, personally.
A player who charges their ult by attacking NPCs has the same as one who charged their ult via the well. So there is no P2W by definition.
That is what you spoke of in what I quoted. Not sure where you are trying to go but it is not relevant to what I quoted or my reply.
No. I spoke of the advantage being either getting less Battlegound matches or having to start without ult as the disadvantage. You stated the well is only a convenience item because the ult is the same. And I replied that in general use cases I agree but that I stand by original assertion that it did have an advantage in Battlegrounds in particular. And I stated why, starting at an ult disadvantage or having worse queues is a competitive disadvantage for the game mode. One that is NOT addressed by the ults being the same. So yes, that reply does respond to what you said.Edited by spartaxoxo on 23 November 2021 04:421 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »Pixiepumpkin wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »Pixiepumpkin wrote: »lots of people are not understanding that pay to win means pay money for advantage, but that advantage can also give the player better chances at the best loot. so paying to win also means pay to loot. combat is not a requirment for pay to win
in mmorpgs peple win when they get the best loot and in this game the best loot comes from the crown store and that costs real money, lots of it
Cash shop items are not loot. You don't do any gameplay to earn them. Loot is rewards for playing.
but you cant get most crown store or gamble crate items in game, only in store. so if you want a nice house it cost a lot of real money, if you want a nice mount, it cost a lot of real money, if you want a nice outfit, it cost a lot of real money
people been playing mmorpgs for a long time and those old games set standards for what it means to play an mmorpg. i did not know whne I started eso that all the cool stuff was locked behind real money.
they show cool things on the videos for the game like the new video they made but most of the cool stuff is not really avaialbe in game, it has to be through cash store. that seems to me like false advertising because it does not say anywhere that all the cool things you see in videos or even in game mostly come through cash shop or gamble crates.
its pay to win to me. if you want to win by having cool stuff to show off you have to pay for it, you cant get it in game
I think you are using the terms Showing off and Winning to mean the same thing, but they aren't. You don't win by showing off, you are simply showing off and haven't won anything.
Winning, to me, is defined by what the game itself wants you to do with an item to compete with another player. Whether it's socially, economically, or through direct gameplay. If the game itself puts you in competition with another player rather than your fantasy, it would be winning.
So achievements and guild trader bids would also count, but having a prettier outfit wouldn't as the cash shop and outfit systems aren't meant to be a trophy like the stuff you get from achievements.
See, that's were we kinda disagree. I don't feel, nor have I ever, that I am in a competition with other players, or the game itself for that matter, to earn achievements, titles or any of those sorts of things, they are nothing more than visual fluff. I feel the game has simply put them there to create goals for me, so I have something to work towards. Otherwise, it would simply be a sandbox game, of which I would tire of in short order and find another game to play. You or that other guy getting an achievement, that literally (tens) of thousands have already achieved, really isn't anything special, its just something to do to keep me busy, playing, and hopefully (from a ZOS point of view) spending my money in the crown store.
I feel most of the achievements are that way, but the ones with publicly displayable titles and such are acting as trophies for a little bit of friendly social competition that's supposed to be a step below the leaderboard activities. So like if it were sports the leaderboards would be the competition for the pros and getting the hard achievements would be like friendly neighborhood tournies/little league etc. Something less intense but still "winnable" to foster camaraderie and a competitive spirit for players that enjoy challenging content. Basically trophies to me are an indication the devs want us to view these activities as wins.
So I think that your right that this is where our viewpoints differ.1 -
Kwoung✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »So I think that your right that this is where our viewpoints differ.
Everyone is different, and being able to agree to disagree is as good as it gets sometimes.
And we can agree that ZOS wants you to view those things as a win. I mentioned that above... that I view reaching those goals I set for myself as a personal win and accomplishment.
Edited by Kwoung on 23 November 2021 06:251 -
Raideen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
They are completely related. Both examples use 3rd party sources outside of the game. One group is part of the official ZOS partner program (the people putting on housing contest) and the other is not.
No, I don't think it is hypocritical nor are the two even remotely related to each other. The fact is, you can buy (almost) any item in the crown store for gold via a safe secure method.
There is no 100% "safe and reliable" way to obtain crown items in game. In every single example one must use a 3rd party source that is NOT backed by ZOS or their terms of service. And as I previously stated, these services come at an ADDITIOANL cost, and not all items can be gifted. Purple gem items I am looking at you.The other is simply player created content, not run by ZOS and not rated/tracked in the game. It is run by just another player, who happens to show their face on screen over on Youtube or Twitch. During the last event, ZOS had links on their page to "Streamers" who are partners or whatever, more than half of which had less than 100 followers, the one I watched to get my free crate had 16 followers (and it was obvious why in short order).
ZOS promotes this content through their Stream Team program. ZOS literally has a partnership with many of the streamers who put on these contests. Its less 3rd party than your 3rd party gold exchange people.
https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/streamteamThose Streamers, while awesome for the community spreading game knowledge and giving ZOS free marketing, are doing this as a job, it is how the good ones make their living, their "events", giveaways and contests are aimed at getting them more subs and viewers, even if the stuff they do is fun and community building. Also, none of those player events include more than the tiniest fraction of the overall playerbase, while leaderboards on the other hand are there to see, in game, by everyone, and everyone who plays has an equal chance to get on them, if they so choose (skill withstanding).
And many of them are part of the ESO Stream Team.
https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/streamteamHad you not linked that advert earlier, I would have never heard of it, when I looked at it, it had 5 replies and 370 views, not exactly an overwhelming response or reach. I also did not see a popup for it when I logged in, telling me I should go visit that groups Discord to participate in a "officially sanctioned" housing event, and I doubt I ever will.
The response to that thread has nothing to do with the fact that many of the people holding or judging that event are part of the ZOS stream team. Which is official.
https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/streamteamI do however, know numerous players that risked buying crowns in zone chat and got burned, and while it took a while for ZOS to resolve their report, they were made whole in the end. YMMV on that though.
That is because there is no 100% safe and reliable way to exchange gold for crowns. Its not part of the game. Its players effectively exploiting the gifting system. You can not exchange crowns for gold, that does not exist in game.1 -
Raideen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »Pixiepumpkin wrote: »but you cant get most crown store or gamble crate items in game, only in store.
Yes. Because they're not loot. Loot is the stuff your earn from gameplay.Pixiepumpkin wrote: »so if you want a nice house it cost a lot of real money, if you want a nice mount, it cost a lot of real money, if you want a nice outfit, it cost a lot of real money
Untrue. There are many nice houses available with coin and also additional houses given out for gameplay. There are nice mounts that earnable. They have an extensive and nice outfits system that you primarily earn from gameplay too.
Actually they are 100% correct. You can not obtain the best houses, mounts, or costumes in game. Those are only obtained through the Crown Store or Crown Crates.
My question is how come the people who like to decorate, collect mounts for their alts, create multiple lore like characters and theme them are the players who have the burden of monetization for the game.
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Uvi_AUT✭✭✭✭✭Alemtuzumab wrote: »I don't understand how the game should prosper if the economy is prosperous. Using hyperbole in a discussion is not helpful at all. If the arguments are too massive then try to sum it up.
No one on this planet is worth more than a million euro a year. No one.
Let that sink in and then spin it further. Gamingcompanies (and most other multibillion-dollar-industries) could make a 50th of their current profit and still satisfy that basic truth and then some.
Thats what I ment with socialeconomic Thread.
Edited by Uvi_AUT on 23 November 2021 12:19Registered since 2014, Customer Service lost my Forum-Account and can't find it.....1 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »Pixiepumpkin wrote: »but you cant get most crown store or gamble crate items in game, only in store.
Yes. Because they're not loot. Loot is the stuff your earn from gameplay.Pixiepumpkin wrote: »so if you want a nice house it cost a lot of real money, if you want a nice mount, it cost a lot of real money, if you want a nice outfit, it cost a lot of real money
Untrue. There are many nice houses available with coin and also additional houses given out for gameplay. There are nice mounts that earnable. They have an extensive and nice outfits system that you primarily earn from gameplay too.
Actually they are 100% correct. You can not obtain the best houses, mounts, or costumes in game. Those are only obtained through the Crown Store or Crown Crates.
My question is how come the people who like to decorate, collect mounts for their alts, create multiple lore like characters and theme them are the players who have the burden of monetization for the game.
Best is a subjective thing. I personally agree on the mounts but find the outfits we create using motifs to be generally far superior to that of the costumes in the cash shop. I also generally prefer the coin houses, because the crown houses are generally too big. But there are a couple of exceptions.
Regardless you don't need to spend money to have a nice house, a nice fit, or a nice mount. There are nice ones available in game.
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Fazuszek✭✭✭Its not ,,pay to win''
Its....
,,PAY OR WE GONNA MAKE UR GAME MORE BORING, MUCH HARDER, LONGER''
Its ur choice. Ive choosen to pay.0 -
Sevalaricgirl✭✭✭✭✭ESO is pretty pay to win, without paying you only have access for like 3 separate weeks a year, don't think that is enough to develop competitive character.
Say what? ESO is buy to play. Once you buy in, you can play as much as you like for nothing, unlimited, not 3 weeks a year. I don't know where you got that. ESO is like any other game you play, you have to buy it first.1 -
tzaeru✭✭Not really a very unpopular opinion..
I've heard some people argue that ESO is pay to win since some of the best sets can not be obtained without paying extra, either ESO+ or paying directly for the relevant DLCs/chapters.
I don't think this is the spirit of pay-to-win though. MMORPGs need to make money with new content and DLCs and chapters are a one-time purchase.
Pay-to-win is when you can keep pouring money to the game to gain advantages over other players.
For example, Mechwarrior: Online had consumables that you could buy with real world money and use them in battle against other players to get an advantage.
Cash of Clans lets users use real world money to rush production which gives them a significant advantage.
Those are examples of true pay-to-win. ESO has nothing comparable.
Yes you can make the PvE grind on new characters take less time by paying.
And yes you wont have access to the best sets unless you own DLCs.
But that's all.
Once I buy the game and I buy a single appropriate DLC out of a discount, there's no longer any sort of an advantage anyone can get over me in PvE or PvP by choosing to use real world money.1 -
DMuehlhausen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭ShawnLaRock wrote: »?
I haven’t heard anyone say otherwise. Curious as to why this is relevant…
S.
Everytime a new chapter is released people say it is cause they don't understand paying for expansions is how games like this have survived for 30 years now.2 -
madrab73✭✭✭✭✭It is pay2win.
Warden
Necro
Jewelry crafting
Vateshran
Mythics
I'm sure there are more2 -
tzaeru✭✭It is pay2win.
Warden
Necro
Jewelry crafting
Vateshran
Mythics
I'm sure there are more
One time buys and most of those don't give you a clear advantage in PvE nor PvP.
If expansions and DLCs are enough to make a game pay-to-win, then it's basically impossible to have a game like this remain non-pay-to-win.
The problem with loosening the definition this much is that then there's no longer a clear distinction between games where the amount of money you use directly increases your winning chances (Cash of Clans, Archeage, etc) and games where a couple of modest one-time buys is all you need.2 -
Elsonso✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »Pixiepumpkin wrote: »so if you want a nice house it cost a lot of real money, if you want a nice mount, it cost a lot of real money, if you want a nice outfit, it cost a lot of real money
Untrue. There are many nice houses available with coin and also additional houses given out for gameplay. There are nice mounts that earnable. They have an extensive and nice outfits system that you primarily earn from gameplay too.
Actually they are 100% correct. You can not obtain the best houses, mounts, or costumes in game. Those are only obtained through the Crown Store or Crown Crates.
My question is how come the people who like to decorate, collect mounts for their alts, create multiple lore like characters and theme them are the players who have the burden of monetization for the game.
They can monetize cosmetics, so that you pay to dress up or decorate better than someone who has not paid, and convenience, so you can catch up to those who have not paid, or they can also monetize armor, weapons, and combat power so that you pay to be better in combat than someone who has not paid.
Someone has to pay for the game, and that burden falls on the players. Servers don't run themselves. DLC and Chapters are not free to make. People have to be paid so that we can have those things. Clearly, subscriptions are not seen as the answer. We are stuck with cosmetics, convenience, and loot boxes
galore, but that is a lesser evil compared to boxes of armor and weapons and other stuff that makes us better at combat.
XBox EU/NA:@ElsonsoJannus
PC NA/EU: @Elsonso
PSN NA/EU: @ElsonsoJannus
Total in-game hours: 11321
X/Twitter: ElsonsoJannus3 -
Tandor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Sevalaricgirl wrote: »ESO is pretty pay to win, without paying you only have access for like 3 separate weeks a year, don't think that is enough to develop competitive character.
Say what? ESO is buy to play. Once you buy in, you can play as much as you like for nothing, unlimited, not 3 weeks a year. I don't know where you got that. ESO is like any other game you play, you have to buy it first.
I can only assume he is referring to ESO+, a totally irrelevant and erroneous point so far as P2W is concerned.0 -
AzuraFan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭It's not pay to win but there are definitely some questionable items available for purchase. You can buy buffs (crown meals, for example). You can buy achievements.
As someone said, it's definitely pay for convenience, but that's true of many online games.0 -
coop500✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I knew when I saw this thread had 6 pages, people got heated haha.
I personally would strongly support that ESO is NOT P2W, however there are a lot of people out there who disagree, mostly ill-informed people.
My friend said I was P2Wing, while he was dueling me with a necromancer and I was a templar lol.
As for people shouting for mythic items, DLC gear, necromancer and warden... Ah what?
Player skill matters a LOT more than these things. I can beat my friend's max level necromancer on a level 10 templar any day of the week, because I got a lot more experience and skill than he does RN (which I am attempting to fix).
DLCs are a lot more than gear, a skilline or whatever. You also still need to put time into EARNING these rewards. You don't get every mythic handed to you for owning Greymoor, you gotta level the skilline, find the leads, dig up the pieces, this is a long process.
Being a necromancer doesn't automatically make you stronger than everyone else. I don't even LIKE the necro class, I think it's kinda eh honestly, but never had a necromancer beat me just for being a necromancer. Being more skilled, with better (or PVP) gear, more CP, me making mistakes, stuff like that? Sure. But not just for being a different class.Hoping for more playable races0 -
Kalik_Gold✭✭✭✭✭
✭FrancisCrawford wrote: »Realistically, if you're an active player, you'll want to have a subscription and also buy the annual content.
If that's pay-to-win, then any subscription-only game would be pay-to-win as well.
So I think OP is right to focus on the question as to whether ADDITIONAL payments beyonnd that, i.e. for Crown Store stuff, ae necessary for character optimization.
If you are an active player, it works out cheaper to just buy the DLCs for Gold (Crowns for Gold) and only buy the chapter in the summer months.
This puts you at a restriction of not having the Crafting Bag, or double bank space.
ESO is pay for convenience...Main: (PvP & PvE)PS5/NA - Ras Kalik a Redguard Templar - Daggerfall Covenant • 1550+ Champion
Ras Kalik a Redguard Templar, the Vestige
PvP:
Aurik Siet'ka a Redguard Necromancer
Cacique the Sage of Ius a Redguard Warden
Jux Blackheart a Redguard Nightblade
Goliath of Hammerfell a Redguard Dragonknight
Kaotik Von Dae'mon a Redguard* Sorcerer
PvP: (Specialty)
Tyrus Septim an Imperial Lycan Sorcerer
Tsar af-Bomba a Redguard Vampiric Nightblade (Bomber)
Movárth Piquine a Nord Vampiric Necromancer
Uri Ice-Heart the Twin a Nord Vampiric Warden
Voa a Priest of Sep a Redguard* Necromancer
PvE:
Cinan Tharn an Imperial Dragonknight (Tank)
Bates Vesuius of Dawnstar an Imperial Dragonknight (Damage)
Herzog Zwei the Genesis an Akavari* Templar (Healer)
Tav'i at-Shinji a Redguard** Warden (One-Bar)
Lucky Hunch the Gambler - a Redguard Nightblade (Thief)
Leveling...
Two-Big-Horns an Argonian Arcanist
Styx of Akatosh a Goblin* Arcanist
Zenovia at-Tura a Redguard** Sorcerer
Yesi af-Kalik a Redguard Templar
======
Passives of another race used. (RP)
*Breton
**Imperial
__________________________Backstories:_________________________
Ras Kalik the Vestige, a renown Redguard warrior; He has been blessed to save Tamriel from Molag Bal’s destructive Planemeld while reuniting the Five Companions. His further accomplishments after defeating Molag Bal, has been to stop the destruction of Morrowind, the Clockwork City, return order to the isle of Summerset and create a new king in Wrothgar and a queen in Elsywer. These events have made him a living legend and continue to lead him into new adventures throughout Tamriel, as well as into the hearts of many ladies including the Elf Queen, Aryenn. Over many years of adventurous travels, Ras Kalik had become a loner, until he re-visited his homeland of Alik'r.
Alik'r and it's cities were overrun by the undead Ra-Netu and therefore he made an allegiance with Alik'r's own Ash'abah tribe. These Ash'abah with his help, cleansed the city of Sentinel in Alik'r desert and it's surrounding areas of the undead brought to life by the Withered Hand. After rescuing Sentinel from the undead zombies, King Fahara’jad’s personal bodyguard the Goliath of Hammerfell, who was given this name by Imperials in the region; was asked to assist the tribe after learning of the defeat of the Withered Hand to the Ash'abah. Kalik promised Goliath he would task him with fighting living enemies on the battlefield if he so desired. Goliath being a Yokudan warrior wields a massive sword in respect to the Ansei, a gift given by the Imperial, Cinan Tharn. Not many soldiers are able to wield double two handed weapons, but Goliath loves to get up and personal in a fight, so he also carries a giant maul, both weapons laced with magical flames.
Jux Blackheart is a master thief that masquerades as a Bard at the Sisters of the Sands inn, with his younger sidekick Lucky Hunch for pilfering and gambling during this time. Jux was known to infiltrate any towns bank vault he came across and even delved into Ayelid ruins without detection. Kalik can vividly recall the night he met the famed thief. Jux found himself rummaging thru a slightly inebriated Kalik’s pocket for too long, on a full-mooned night and because of his greed and the glimmer of his golden armor in the moonlight. He lost his left pinky fingertip as a lesson! But in return, he gained a new friend, as it was his first time since a child being caught red-handed...
Upon arrival back in the Alik'r after many moons of adventuring, Ras Kalik ventures to Bergama. Visiting The Winking Jackal, he runs into Jux Blackheart, who introduces him to the coin game Crowns vs Forebearers (Heads vs Tails) and Golden Dwemer (RBG).... Jux constantly takes gold from the unfortunate thru theft or gambling, his biggest gambling victim is actually his partner in crime known as Lucky Hunch the Gambler. Lucky doesn't mind losing any gold coins to Jux... as Jux saved him from Altmer slavers in Summerset, by stealing a key and sending him on a boat to the mainland years prior. Lucky spent years in slavery with Khajiits in Summerset and picked up the art of subterfuge, using illusion magic disguises and stealing there.
Kaotik Von’Daemon an outcast, and a half-caste between a Breton mother and a Redguard father. Kaotik become a pariah due to his conjuration of Daedra pets. He was taught healing magic during his childhood years by his Breton mother. His father due to Redguard customs exiled him from the desert, sending him by wagon caravan to be a soldier in the war in Cyrodiil. He happened to meet Kalik while traveling from Alik'r, during this long caravan ride the caravan he was in was ambushed in Bangkorai by a group of bandits. Kalik by chance was also traveling thru this area on his Auridon Warhorse (which was bestowed to him by his friend, Darien Gautier). During this ambush, Kalik was able to rescue five hostages from the bandits. Kaotik was the first rescued, and Ras Kalik also recruited him to be in the Ash'abah tribe. These core Ash'abah tribesmen may never be seen together in travel as they partake in their own adventures but they always know what each other is doing; as they frequent a hideout in northern Bankorai. Their hideout an old Orc castle ruin, is kept watch by Nuzhimeh and she passes messages written between them, and frequently they also enjoy her company and her bed.
The other men rescued were a Dunmer banker, an Imperial mercenary and two other soldiers, an Imperial and a Breton Knight, stating proudly he was an Akavir descendent. One of the Imperials, Cinan, claimed to be related to Abnur Tharn the Battlemage of the Imperial Elder Council (One of Ras Kalik's mentors in the Five Companions). Cinan Tharn was really Abnur's drunkard treasure hunting illegitimate son. He was caught smuggling artifacts out of the Ayleid ruins in Cyrodiil and the elder of the two Imperials was Tyrus Septim a retired Imperial navy battle-mage (now a Lycan mercenary living in the city of Rimmen) and guard to the Tharn family. As much as Abnur Tharn hated his half-sister Euraxia, he dislikes his bas†ard son Cinan more. Tyrus now a ruffian and privateer had been paid by Abnur Tharn to watch over Cinan as much as possible. Cinan Tharn a drunkard, loves to drink at least a quarter barrel of Nord mead before he raids various delves and dungeons for relics to sell on the black market. Cinan also plans to one day, run an illegal gambling ring... which he thinks will net him more gold for his wares.
The Dunmer captive shackled to the Imperials looked familiar to Kalik from his time in Morrowind.... and he recognized him as Tythis Andromo a House Telvanni slave-owner and banker from Vvardenfell. During a rough interrogation to Tythis, Ras Kalik learnt why the bandits accosted him. The racist Dunmer was providing slaves as soldiers for the Three Banner War. The bandits were trying to negotiate a lucrative ransom for Andromo and the Imperials.... Kalik did not need any of this gold and he could never set Tythis free as he did with the two Imperial soldiers. His past involvement with slavery and war crimes, made Kalik's blood boil. He chose not to execute Tythis, as he figured the worse punishment for this former rich and opulent slave owner, is to now be an imprisoned servant for Ras Kalik and the tribe.
Herzog Zwei the Genesis a reknown Imperial/Akavirri battle-mage. His roots going back to Akavir through his mother’s bloodline. (His mother is descended from the Akaviri, through Versidue-Shae, and his Imperial father met her in Hakoshae, while traveling) Herzog earned the nickname "the Genesis" from his father as a child, as he was his mother's first born child, and last, as she tragically died in child-birth.
Herzog was seeking to purchase an artifact from Cinan Tharn, before their capture and was meeting Tyrus while in Rimmen, who introduced him to Cinan. This artifact being the Ayelid artifact; the sword Sinweaver. After their rescue and the exchange of gold to Cinan for the sword he decided to slip away before Ras Kalik could question who he was, and why the Akavir descendant really wanted that sword. Herzog was headed to Nagastani — An Ayleid ruin in eastern Cyrodiil. He had read in scrolls that the Sword would give him magical powers to meet his mothers spirit, if he performed an Ayleid ritual at an old shrine hidden there. Equipped with the artifact sword, he was off to start his own adventure but Ras Kalik, did indeed notice the sword however and instead sent a letter to Jux Blackheart (whom also was interested in Ayleid treasures), to attempt to find Herzog and acquire the sword. (*Azani Blackheart in Elder Scroll's Oblivion is Jux's descendant some 747 years later)
And so the Redguard, Imperial and Akaviri men parted ways ... While Ras Kalik went off to Elsweyr to encounter the latest threat to Tamriel, with Abnur Tharn and Sai Sahan - - DRAGONS!! Little did Ras Kalik know a few people were awaiting him in Senchal besides Sai. A necromancer survived his attack on the Withered Hand, while in Alik'r. The necromancer known as Auriek Siet'ka is also following him to the land of the Khajiits and Cacique the Sage of Ius a Shaman mystic who has become attuned spiritually with Tu'whacca (a Redguard God) and Ius (the Animal God), after being burned severely by the escaped dragons in Elsywer, is awaiting his arrival also. Aurik is a soldier of the Daggerfall Covenant that was introduced to necromancy while in the military, even though this magicka art is not spoken of openly by most of the Military leaders. He came to Alik'r and worked with the Withered Hand before Ras Kalik intervened on their plans. After the defeat of the Withered Hand, he aligned with the Worm Cult, and is constantly adapting and perfecting his necromantic arts.
After his journey to Rimmen, Kalik heads south to Senchal, in the southern regions of Elyswer. This new adventure will also put him on a path to meet a strange Redguard man. The stranger which was infected with an untreated Peyrite disease and also was the exiled from the Order of the New Moon cult, due to his sickness. He originally joined the cult to worship Laatvulon, the green dragon, mistakenly thinking it was the Daedric prince Peyrite. This confused and suffering cultist is known as Tsar al-Bomba and he is on a path to spread the disease. He was originally infected in Orccrest while recruiting members there. Can Ras Kalik and the shaman Cacique cure this poor soul, only time will tell. Little does Tsar al-Bomba know, that his infection is tied to Vampirism, and eventually the desire for blood will take over his mind. Senchal also offers Kalik his latest love interest... Aeliah. Whom he fondly led thru battles with the Dragonguard.
After the trek thru the heat, tropical and desert climate of Northern and Southern Elyswer, Ras Kalik heads north to the cold mountain range of Skyrim. His companion friend Lyris beckons for him with a letter sent by crow...
Movárth Piquine - a former vampire hunter (now infected), within the Fighter's Guild (and a secretive necromancer) was in Skyrim working with the Morthaal Guard. On a patrol mission he was caught in Frewien's ice curse outside of Morthaal with the frozen undead. Movárth's vampiric infection kept him from becoming an undead minion to the curse. He was able to use necromantic ice-magic to encase himself safely until he was freed with Freiwen, when the Vestige Ras Kalik broke the curse.
Uri Ice-Heart - brother of Urfon Ice-Heart. The twin sons of Atli and Oljourn Ice-Heart. The Ice-Heart family are originally from Markarth but now reside on the Jerall Mountain range near Cyrodiil, with their younger sister Araki. The twins had joined the Winterborn Reachmen while living in Markarth. Urfon pushed west to Orsinium with the Winterborn Clan, leaving his family behind. Uri stayed behind with his parents and sister to live in the family cabin for safety, avoiding the Vampire plague infiltrating the Reach. After news reaches him and he hears of Urfon's death... Uri leaves and heads home and is seeking vengeance. Meanwhile, his sister has also moved on to Windhelm to join the Fighter's guild. He will visit his sister, once before going to seek vengeance and she will craft him armor mixed with ice, called Stalhrim armor. Uri fearing death, after his brother's passing, falls victim to the convincing talk of Movárth at a Nordic tavern, and will also becomes a vampire.
{time moves forward through the hour-glass}
Returning player - 2017-2022, back in 25'0 -
Sevalaricgirl✭✭✭✭✭It is pay2win.
Warden
Necro
Jewelry crafting
Vateshran
Mythics
I'm sure there are more
Yeah no. Classes came with the expansions, you don't have to use them to play the game. The definition of pay 2 win...
"in online gaming, the practice of buying in-game items that give a player a very big advantage over others"
Necro, warden, jewelry crafting etc has 0 to do with a big advantage over others. I will say this. If you think others have an advantage over you, you need to "get gud".
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newtinmpls✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
My question is how come the people who like to decorate, collect mounts for their alts, create multiple lore like characters and theme them are the players who have the burden of monetization for the game.
Funny story, that.
Originally ZoS said "we have created TES online! All may rejoice"
The TES fans said "cool! We have been waiting YEARS for Skyrim with friends"
ZoS: "No, we are never goona do that. PvP is the endgame. We will NEVER have housing, or dyes, after all, people will dye their weapons pink and no one wants that!"
TES fans: "we want this stuff." **waving money**
ZoS: "No"
TES fans: "please please please please" **waving more money**
PvP fans: "WHAT, pay MONEY for ANYTHING??" [insert lots of cussing]
ZoS: "hey....um....no, that's not our vision"
TES fans: "we want housing, pets, flying pets, assistants, furniture!!!!" **waving lots of money**
PvP fans: "every other game is better than this one" "you should do MORE for PvP, and no we don't want to pay for it"
ZoS: "um"
I think you can guess where this wentTenesi Faryon of Telvanni - Dunmer Sorceress who deliberately sought sacrifice into Cold Harbor to rescue her beloved.
Hisa Ni Caemaire - Altmer Sorceress, member of the Order Draconis and Adept of the House of Dibella.
Broken Branch Toothmaul - goblin (for my goblin characters, I use either orsimer or bosmer templates) Templar, member of the Order Draconis and persistently unskilled pickpocket
Mol gro Durga - Orsimer Socerer/Battlemage who died the first time when the Nibenay Valley chapterhouse of the Order Draconis was destroyed, then went back to Cold Harbor to rescue his second/partner who was still captive. He overestimated his resistance to the hopelessness of Oblivion, about to give up, and looked up to see the golden glow of atherius surrounding a beautiful young woman who extended her hand to him and said "I can help you". He carried Fianna Kingsley out of Cold Harbor on his shoulder. He carried Alvard Stower under one arm. He also irritated the Prophet who had intended the portal for only Mol and Lyris.***Order Draconis - well c'mon there has to be some explanation for all those dragon tattoos.
House of Dibella - If you have ever seen or read "Memoirs of a Geisha" that's just the beginning...
Nibenay Valley Chapterhouse - Where now stands only desolate ground and a dolmen there once was a thriving community supporting one of the major chapterhouses of the Order Draconis0 -
_adhyffbjjjf12✭✭✭✭✭Sevalaricgirl wrote: »It is pay2win.
Warden
Necro
Jewelry crafting
Vateshran
Mythics
I'm sure there are more
Yeah no. Classes came with the expansions, you don't have to use them to play the game. The definition of pay 2 win...
"in online gaming, the practice of buying in-game items that give a player a very big advantage over others"
Necro, warden, jewelry crafting etc has 0 to do with a big advantage over others. I will say this. If you think others have an advantage over you, you need to "get gud".
To add, in a game with a fixed power ceiling:
- A player buying a boost to max level to allow them to play in content they are targeting is not pay to win, its pay to catch up.
- A player buying skyshards to catch up with whatever target they desire is not pay to win, its pay to catch up.
- A player buying XP boosts to get faster XP to get faster CP is not pay to win its pay to catch up.
And so on and so forth. They key element is that fixed power ceiling.Edited by _adhyffbjjjf12 on 24 November 2021 17:140 -
Celephantsylvius_Bornasfinmo✭✭✭✭✭
✭So from what I've read in many replies;
ESO isn't particularly P2W to many.
To rejoin some higher aspiration raid groups (HM/Trifrecta progress) I had to buy Blackwood and resub as the current meta requires equipment from those areas.
So essentially my upcoming raiding experience cost me:
39 Euros (Blackwood) + at least a minimum of 24 Euros worth of subscription (two months +/-), making my trial experience practically the cost of an off the shelve game at 60+ Euros.
You can say; Well it's money worth your time, but I'm essentially try harding and learning mechanics and I'm not spending countless hours discovering a zone with quality quests in my opinion.
I think that more than 1 out of 5 people find pricing exaggerated in ESO and that speaks for itself.
'Pressure to pay' is more appropriate.
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JamilaRaj✭✭✭✭✭
✭jedtb16_ESO wrote: »
as far as i know, and i could be wrong, there is no splash screen that says >>>>>>> GAME OVER. CONGRATULATIONS, YOU WON.
i could be wrong though.
Indeed you are. See, even though there is, say, Stanley cup, there is no splash screen that says CONGRATS, YOU WON, NHL IS OVER FOR ALL TIME. Also, NHL does not sell goals, even though players could point out that selling goals would be perfectly alright, because teams can score goals in the game, and anyway buying a few goals would not automatically secure winning a match, never mind the cup or entire NHL for all time. Presumably because the league would be utter garbage if they did.Alemtuzumab wrote: »Pay-to-win criteria:
1. Cash shop contains weapon/armor that is unobtainable in the game. (✘)
Cash shop enables multiple cash-to-gold conversion schemes. Gold can be used to buy items, making the schemes effectively cash to items schemes. Items can be bought instantly without effort, unlike items in the game, which require time and effort to obtain, therefore there are instant zero effort items in the cash shop that are unobtainable in the game.0 -
spitfire1525✭✭✭[snip] Having a store for a game is an absolute must for MMOs to make any money. The days of monthly $ subs as sole source of revenue are over. Theres too much competition out there now.
[Edited for Rude Comments]Edited by Psiion on 28 November 2021 22:49
What we do in life, echoes in eternity1
