Time for another Racials update?

Rust_in_Peace

Right now the meta seems to favor the 2 races that double dip in stats such as dunmer/altmer which gain both spellpower and weaponpower making them more powerful than any other race for both stamina and magicka builds. Add to that the fact that Zenimax is buffing hybrid sets and stats making builds a bit easier to figure out I think it's time to review some of the other less desirable racials. Specifically Breton and Redguard are relegated to only one build type; either magicka only or stamina only, respectively, and a focus on sustain and raw stats neither of which have a meaningful impact with the way stats currently scale.

phaneub17_ESO

Double down on the redguard! Change weapon cost reduction to all stamina ability cost! Screw you staff wielding redguards!

Ratzkifal

Personally I do think it's time for another racial passive update. But ZOS' current design philosophy really isn't what I am looking for. Everything is getting completely homogenized and I think this would be no different for new racial passives, as can be seen recently with Altmer and Orsimer becoming hybrid, even if that was supposed to be the Dunmer and Khajiit identity. Racial identity is starting to lack when everything becomes so same-y.

The reason why I think racial passives should be a thing at all is because they tie who you are as a character to your experience of the game. Playing the game as a Redguard should make you feel like you are a member of this proud warrior race. Unlike a line of text in a book that nobody reads, or some quest dialogue everybody skips, a racial passives stays with you the entire time - so it can be quite the powerful narrative tool, if used well.

As a completely hypothetical example, giving Dunmer extra crit damage when attacking from behind immediately tells you that they can be pretty cut-throat, which is exactly how their culture is (Morag Tong, the "good" Daedra Mephala and Boethia, etc). This is how racial passives could or rather should be used.

Sadly balancing makes it really difficult to just give every race the most lore-appropriate passives possible, especially if we want to continue to allow people to diverge from what is considered "the norm" for that race - think Nord, Orsimer or Redguard mages, Altmer warriors, Bosmer tanks.

Perhaps the only way out of this that I can see happening is if they added a complementary system to racial passives that "fills in the gaps". Pretend for a moment that food and drink buffs don't already exist, then "a meal from my home country" could be different for every race and provide you with the buffs you are missing to be on par with "the correct racial choice". The benefit of picking "the right race" for your build would be not needing to engage with that complementary system. What shape such a system could take is beyond me right now. I just know what I don't want - lore inaccurate racial passives and everything being the same.

xylena_lazarow

Decouple race passives from character model. Allow racial passive packages to be selected like Mundus Stones, call it "blessing of the Nords" or whatever. Character race should not have any competitive effects.

twing1_

Whenever this race topic gets brought up, I always link a discussion I posted about this the first time they re-did racial skills:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/560656/definitively-balancing-racial-skills#latest

Just an explanation of why the races are balanced unfairly by ZOS's standard, and providing a potential solution involving that all races follow specific guidelines in their passives:

1. All races are given a bonus of 3000 max resources distributed across some combination of magicka, health, or stamina
2. All races have a bonus worth exactly 2 item set bonuses
3. All races have a sustain passive roughly equal to ~129 resource recovery (after taking into account % modifiers)
4. All races have a defensive bonus relatively equal to other races
5. All races have a flavor passive, and follow traditional TES lore

But yes, racial passives have always needed a rework since they updated them.

Rust_in_Peace

I think two other stats they could consider spreading around more; instead of just giving everyone wep/spell damage bonuses, would be Critical Rating and Penetration since they are universal for magicka and stamina.

colossalvoids

Guess there's a little demand and point in any rework right now as we playing different games every patch still.

I had way less issues with said rework when sustain was a lot harder and there were no trial dummie so races were almost equally performing more or less, like bosmer had no need in any regen while orc and dunmer needed foods or enchantment / proper group support. Also redguards were go to stamsorc but now there's little need in weapon abilities so needs rework the most as currently there's not a single niche anymore for this race which is unfortunate.

RaddlemanNumber7

It's always time to turn Bosmer back into the stealthy hunters they should be.

Stx

The fact that dunmer are supposed to be the hybrid race but are also the best race for pure stamina builds is just a ridiculous testament to how bad zos has balanced racials.

They really do need to start from scratch.

buttaface

Vote NO. From someone who plays every race but imperial regularly in every type of content. Racials are in a good place atm, far better than in the past.

Tommy_The_Gun

twing1_ wrote: »

Whenever this race topic gets brought up, I always link a discussion I posted about this the first time they re-did racial skills:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/560656/definitively-balancing-racial-skills#latest

Just an explanation of why the races are balanced unfairly by ZOS's standard, and providing a potential solution involving that all races follow specific guidelines in their passives:

1. All races are given a bonus of 3000 max resources distributed across some combination of magicka, health, or stamina
2. All races have a bonus worth exactly 2 item set bonuses
3. All races have a sustain passive roughly equal to ~129 resource recovery (after taking into account % modifiers)
4. All races have a defensive bonus relatively equal to other races
5. All races have a flavor passive, and follow traditional TES lore

But yes, racial passives have always needed a rework since they updated them.

Well, as far as I can tell Argonian's Life Mender passive is based on healing set bonus, but the thing is that it is based on the "old" gear set healing bonus.

Back then it was 2%, but they buffed it to 4% later. Argonian passive however remained unchanged and it is still based on old gear set bonus (3 x 2% = 6%). So, it should be at least 12% if we were to take "math" into account.

Weakest races currently in terms of passives are Argonians, Wood Elves and Redguards. The order may vary depending on who will you ask, but whenever there is a Discussion what is the weakest race in ESO - those 3 are mentioned very often.

the1andonlyskwex

A lot of the racial imbalances could be solved by making sustain harder (by either increasing ability costs or nerfing group sustain buffs/abilities).

rexagamemnon

Make Imperials Meta

Uvi_AUT

I would love to play anything else than a Dark Elf.
But since I love minmaxing and playing stamina and magicka I really dont have a choice.

Stx

rexagamemnon wrote: »

Make Imperials Meta

Imperials are already considered by some to be meta for tanking as well as pvp.

Mrtoobyy

I would love to have racial personalities making each race even more unique. That includes different weapon animations

Fennwitty

They're relatively balanced at the moment, though Redguard and Breton could use a little more.

Amottica

Fennwitty wrote: »

They're relatively balanced at the moment, though Redguard and Breton could use a little more.

I agree as there are some good choices for each build type..

YandereGirlfriend

The only changes that should be made are modest buffs to Argonian and Redguard.

Ryuvain

Kind of wish they had more unique racial stuff. It doesn't always have to be so stat based. Like how argonians are better swimmers. What if khajiit could see better in the dark and have better unarmed damage? Stuff thats true to lore but doesnt affect combat much.

Maybe I just miss the racials from previous games.

Zama666

I don't mind Imperials the way they are. (love the cost reduction)
Would not be against making them more well rounded.
Instead of the health and stam bonus of 2000 - would take less (1500?) and toss in a magicka bonus

Stx

If they were to rebalance them, it would be nice if more than just 3 races had dps stats. The simple fact that dark elf, high elf, and orc have damage as a racial makes them instantly the best for dps, same with khajiit.

The fact that dark elf and khajiit are hybrid races but are still optimal for pure dps roles is blasphemous from a balance perspective. Meanwhile some races have zero dps racials.

Another problem is that ever since cp2.0, you can get all the sustain you need from food, so the sustain races aren't useful for dps either.

I think one of two things need to happen. Either racials are just flavor and no combat bonuses, or every race should have at least one line of damage stat, either weapon/spell damage, crit, or crit damage. Penetration isn't even that useful due to how easy it is to hit cap.

Firey_Hellhound

I started to play ESO just over a year ago and coming from the previous TES games, thought I would would like to play a ranged Archer and thought a Bosmer would be good fit as a racial search I found this quote:

"The Wood Elves, or Bosmer, are mischievous, curious and nimble. Because their homeland of Valenwood is often attacked by the Colovian Imperials, Wood Elves are experts at the art of defense. They are also gifted archers, perhaps the best in all of Tamriel. The capital of the Aldmeri Dominion, Elden Root, lies in the heart of their homeland. It has evolved into a center of political and cultural importance and is of vital strategic importance in the battle to control Tamriel."

The key bit was - They are also gifted archers, perhaps the best in all of Tamriel. So that is what I choose and in keeping with a nature theme went with Warden. I still play it and enjoy playing it too.

It was much later that I was to discover that Bosmer are not in fact the best Archers in the game DPS wise, so if you were to reconsider Racial passives, I would like to see Bosmer being elevated to be the best Archers in all of Tamriel. This could be done by adding a specific racial buff, if and only if, using a Bow. This could be:

-Increased weapon damage (at least equal to Altmer, Dummer or Orc)

-Increasing range (although this can be done with some skills although it is not Bosmer specific).

So some combo of these to would then perhaps make them the best archers in all of Tamriel.

Thank you.

ke.sardenb14_ESO

Honestly I'd just give a crit chance line to redguards. 500 or so chance would not break the game

Pollux_Geminorum

Firey_Hellhound wrote: »

I started to play ESO just over a year ago and coming from the previous TES games, thought I would would like to play a ranged Archer and thought a Bosmer would be good fit as a racial search I found this quote:

"The Wood Elves, or Bosmer, are mischievous, curious and nimble. Because their homeland of Valenwood is often attacked by the Colovian Imperials, Wood Elves are experts at the art of defense. They are also gifted archers, perhaps the best in all of Tamriel. The capital of the Aldmeri Dominion, Elden Root, lies in the heart of their homeland. It has evolved into a center of political and cultural importance and is of vital strategic importance in the battle to control Tamriel."

The key bit was - They are also gifted archers, perhaps the best in all of Tamriel. So that is what I choose and in keeping with a nature theme went with Warden. I still play it and enjoy playing it too.

It was much later that I was to discover that Bosmer are not in fact the best Archers in the game DPS wise, so if you were to reconsider Racial passives, I would like to see Bosmer being elevated to be the best Archers in all of Tamriel. This could be done by adding a specific racial buff, if and only if, using a Bow. This could be:

-Increased weapon damage (at least equal to Altmer, Dummer or Orc)

-Increasing range (although this can be done with some skills although it is not Bosmer specific).

So some combo of these to would then perhaps make them the best archers in all of Tamriel.

Thank you.

I completely agree with this. I've always thought that despite the alliances system, all characters should start their main quest in their homelands as a better way to get immersed in their own storyline. I've got over 10 characters. One of them is a Redguard DK tank and he's been exploring the Alik'r Desert to learn about his Yokuda ancestry. Another character is a Khajit NB dd and she's from Pellitine aka Souther Elsweyr (she's a bandit, but with family ties to Queen Kamira from Pellitine aka Northern Elsweyr). Finally, my Dunmer NM dd who's evil as she's terribly disfigured and embittered. She follows Mephala, likes Molag Bal, and wants to overthrow The Tribunal.

Something I don't understand is why Imperials have to choose a faction when they should actually be 'factionless' as their main interest is to get Cyrodiil and the Imperial City back from Molag Bal's grasp not the Three Banners War to choose a non-Imperial as Emperor/Empress.

FeedbackOnly

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Decouple race passives from character model. Allow racial passive packages to be selected like Mundus Stones, call it "blessing of the Nords" or whatever. Character race should not have any competitive effects.

Some new mundus stones sound interesting

katorga

Races with 258 weapon/spell damage > everything.

258 weapon/spell damage has the most % modifiers left in the game - so its really 335, even more on some classes with class passives like Sorc and Templar.

Every other passive has a cap, diminishing returns or reaches some point where you just don't "need" any more of it.

Khajiit was an exception, but they killed it with crit damage caps. Now that armory is in the game, it makes zero sense to play anything other than Dark Elf for anything other than tank. Every other race is niche.

rexagamemnon

Racial could be cosmetic and we choose what bonuses we want with one mandatory for lore reasons outside of combat like gold acquisition for Imperials, weapon skill line experience bonus, class skill line experience bonuses, magika skills experience bonuses, stamina skills experience bonus, activate potion (x)% chance to not consume, (x)% chance to fill a soul gem when you kill an enemy, (x)% increase gold from item sales at vendors, (x)% chance to successfully pickpocket,
Increased chance to force a chest lock, increased mount speed, increase in crafting inspiration/experience, etc

ResidentContrarian

phaneub17_ESO wrote: »

Double down on the redguard! Change weapon cost reduction to all stamina ability cost! Screw you staff wielding redguards!

But that reduction is the secret to my BGs magnecro that has never lost once...

How about we calm down, re-evaluate the situation and avoid nerfing my secret sauce...!

CaliphStudio

Totally agree with this point, the whole point of racial passives is to make the experience more immersive, I am absolutely sure nobody likes the meta side of racials.

nobody likes to have a tail or red eyes just because it gives you 1% more damage, and with this recent updates, the immersive side is also lost.

And the worst part is, the least hybrid a race, the weaker it is too, a stam dd cat or dunmer is stronger than an orc or redguard, quite the opposite of what you'd imagine, how about altmers/bretons being the top mages, while dunmers can do almost the same, but with the utility of being both stam and mag based ? (or having the other resource at hand while focused on one).

Deathlord92

I’d be happy if Breton got max stam to and maybe make its magic reduce cost passive reduce everything.