Why not make the game much more understandable...

MrBrownstone

To everyone, especially new players.

- Since you're hybridizing everything, remove spell damage and weapon damage and just introduce a stat called something like offensive power or something.
The amount of players who think Major Sorcery increases their skills' damage by 20% would surprise you.

- Remove all the huge nonsense numbers like 660 resistance and 219 critical, make those 1% resistance and 1% critical. They make no sense to a new player. How does Precise trait simply provide 7.2% critical? Since it can do it, why cannot Major Prophecy just provide 12% instead of "2629"?
127 Crit Resistance? 1487 Penetration? What are these?

- Remove "cp160". This is a useless number leftover from the veteran ranks and it has no meaning for a new player, not intuitive. Just make the item level cap 50 and people can start building as soon as they reach CP levels, instead of the nonsense 160.

There have been some good steps towards this, like hybridizing spell resistance and physical resistance into "Armor", that is a good start. But there is much more to do if the devs want the stats to be more new player friendly.

_adhyffbjjjf12

Why? there's not a problem to solve here, new players live in the same century we do and were not in a gaming vacuum before they start playing ESO.

In the 80s we had simplistic games that had attack power and defend power, but game players love choice, agency and rich and diverse skills and so games evolved to what we have today. ESO offers rich diversity, which is important for a mmorpg.

whitecrow

Agreed. Five years on I still have no idea what some of this stuff means.

Iccotak

I would say the only problem for new players in the general content is that it doesn’t encourage them to use the mechanics that they tutorial teaches them.

it’s kind of like forgetting everything you learned in a semester over the summer vacation.

Pevey

I have often thought exactly along the same lines as the OP. Some things in the game are unnecessarily confusing. Not even just for new players. I’ve come across people who have played for years and could not explain spell power vs weapon damage and the various things they affect. Especially since staves are weapons, after all. They are listed clearly under “Weapons” in the skill tree.

PS: combine them, and then maybe the price of cornflower would come down?

Milchbart

whitecrow wrote: »

Agreed. Five years on I still have no idea what some of this stuff means.

And of course that's ZOS' fault ... or maybe yours?

That's like saying I've had 10 years of Algebra at school and still don't understand it.

Tandor

Please don't trivialise the game any more! It's not like the internet doesn't have places you can go to look up the things you don't understand. This forum, for one!

whitecrow

Milchbart wrote: »

whitecrow wrote: »

Agreed. Five years on I still have no idea what some of this stuff means.

And of course that's ZOS' fault ... or maybe yours?

That's like saying I've had 10 years of Algebra at school and still don't understand it.

No, classes actually teach things.

Eiregirl

Tandor wrote: »

Please don't trivialise the game any more! It's not like the internet doesn't have places you can go to look up the things you don't understand. This forum, for one!

There is sooo much contradictory information on the forums and online about this game most people would not know what to believe. It would be best to just figure it out for yourself which is not really that hard to do.

anitajoneb17_ESO

Tandor wrote: »

Please don't trivialise the game any more! It's not like the internet doesn't have places you can go to look up the things you don't understand. This forum, for one!

A game SHOULD NOT have to rely on third party sources to explain their own mechanics, and players should not have to go look up elsewhere but in the game to understand them.

Besides, if its so easy, please explain yourself. I'd be very surprised if anyone can explain in simple (and complete) words what "2629" critical chance actually means in ESO. I couldn't.

Cillion3117

I never thought about it like this. To most of us those little things have always been there, so no big deal. To a new player, it would be very confusing.

Amottica

Speaking as a player that started playing ESO this year I do not find any of these things confusing. True, I did not know where CP160 came from until it was explained but as a gearing number it still made since before then. I have also seen other games using a number for crit rating that the game then translated into the critical chance percentage so this is not uncommon for the industry.

Heck, I recall when I first starting playing MMORPGs I spent time figuring out how to build my character and how to play better. There were still players that seemed to just stick their head in the sand and do whatever, even in games with simpler designs. No game can make players want to figure out the game and I would not want ESO or any MMORPG to be so simplistic in design that even that character build and combat is boring.

My vote is this is not an issue.

Sarannah

Sorry, I like it the way it is. There is nothing complex about it, and the 160CP fits ESO(unique). There is no need to change things so that a five year old can understand it all, as this would only cause more and more problems later on in the endgame. When players have no clue what they were doing, and how they even got there. While failing everything they do, because it is too complex for them.

Not to mention, it is usually those who can't understand the most simple things that are the most toxic. Which is understandable as noone likes to feel like they are stupid. And even if it was not meant to make them feel that way, that would be the outcome. As other players will point it out if you fail.
So it is better to keep the minimal learning curve ESO has now, at the beginning of the journey in Tamriel, instead of placing it in the endgame.

The current 160 CP system is deeply tied into geardrops and crafting/craftingmaterials, changing this would mean a MAJOR overhaul for the entire game. Not just making it a lot of work, but also turning ESO in a completely different game. Not even in a good way, as the game would become like every other MMO on the market with their basic systems. This is a big NO NO to me.

like hybridizing spell resistance and physical resistance into "Armor"

Hope they won't do this, as they are two totally different stats.

PS: I find it strange so many players seem to agree with the OP, as there are weekly threads asking for difficult overland and claiming the game is too easy.

Vaoh

The biggest offenders are the resistance and critical chance stats.

Getting a buff for 5.9k resists or a bonus for 650 Critical Chance has no meaning. You can ask most long time players and they won’t even know exactly what these things mean without checking online or grabbing a calculator lol.

jaws343

I think the CP stuff is fine.

I agree that the damage and crit modifer stuff could be more streamlined.

It's weird seeing people defend the current design of this when the game for most of it's life didn't even have a visible indicator of Critical Damage % or Penetration. You had to do math and track that outside of the game to even know what your base stat value was.

Something as simple as having an Effective Weapon and Effective Spell power stat. Similar to the Build Editor that most people use outside of the game. Would go a long way. Players would still need to smartly stack one stat or the other depending on sets/skills they intend to use, but being able to see their overall power would be useful.

On top of that, they really need to just put the actual damage types on the tooltips of skills. If it is direct damage, just say that, if it is a DOT or a playerbased AOE, just spell it out. There is literally no reason to be as coy about it as they are.

jaws343

I am actually going to go a step further even. With the loadouts coming, as well as the current set collection system, now is the perfect time to add an actual build editor in game.

For example, you go to your set collection and you pick the pieces you would want to equip and their traits, and you basically preview them on your character, along with other aspects of the build, to see tooltips, stats, etc. And if you want to run that, and you have the resources, you could craft those pieces from there using whatever resources are currently needed.

Anything that removes the need for 3rd party sources to do things and check things in game.

MrBrownstone

Tandor wrote: »

Please don't trivialise the game any more! It's not like the internet doesn't have places you can go to look up the things you don't understand. This forum, for one!

So if it said "9% resistance" instead of "5948 resistance" it will trivialize the game? Or it would just make sense?

Even the 660 = 1% thing isn't universal, the numbers work different for resistances and completely different for critical resistance. Different for critical chance.

Why does the Shadow Mundus say "Increases Critical Damage and Healing by 11%"

It is too trivialized! I want critical damage to be made of random numbers too!

I want 84074812433 critical damage to be equal to 1% critical damage so the Shadow Mundus should provide "924822936763 critical damage", makes more sense in eso language.

ealdwin

Tooltips for sure could be more clear or informative as to what they mean.

Just because a set is adding 833 Critical because integers are easier on the backend does not mean that the set therefore has to say 833 Critical on the tooltip. The text on the tooltip can be different than the actual behind the scenes numbers, especially if it helps makes things easier for the player to understand. A set that says it adds 3% Critical Chance makes significantly more sense than 833 Critical Chance.

Vevvev

All the stuff is explained.... in the help menu. And when you hover your mouse over the stats themselves....

The issue is the game doesn't tell you where the knowledge is and expects you to bumble into it or figure it out as you go along. I don't agree with the OP's ideas, but I do agree ZOS should really have their game become more proactive in presenting this information to the player. Throw it in their face and/or hand hold them till they understand it if you have to, ZOS.

MrBrownstone

What is wrong with you people thinking that I'm trying to make the game easy? I just want to make the interface and stats to make sense. How is that even related to difficulty? I want harder overland too (But never talk about it here because I know zos doesn't care) and I like hard content.

I just don't want to divide the numbers by 219, 660 or some other nonsense to calculate what I'm getting from a bonus/buff etc.

I want to see that Mother's Sorrow provides 7% spell critical instead of 1528. This will not increase my dps, not reduce enemy hp, it will just make sense. It won't trivialize the game.

summ0004

I think some of the things such as crit rating should be simply converted to a percentage as it offers no useful value as number so I agree there. Crit damage is expressed as percentage, so maybe they think it will confuse people who will think they are the same thing maybe?

Paulytnz

I think the very least ZOS could/should do is on their main website have this information actually BE there somewhere. Sections that explain what the numbers mean, have tutorials for new players and then more advanced tutorials as to the "Numbers" etc. This is what most games that I have ever played do. If done correctly the information is actually easier to learn and understand than any tutorial simply because you can view it at your own pace as well as go back and refer to it at any time.

Ask yourself this question - how many times have you started a game for the first time to be swamped with a tutorial and information and simply ignored it because you just want to get in and actually play the thing?

Good games give you an option to go back and view the information again or in a more concise way where it actually makes sense. Yes I know there are good sites out there that do this. But some of them can be confusing for people and you actually have to do a lot of work most times to find the actual info you are looking for.

If ZOS just simply added simple to understand, easy to access written tutorials on their actual site I think the game could be a lot more easier to understand for a lot of people, especially new players.

Right now going to the main website you find very little info about anything. In fact it is nothing more than a big advertisement for the game and that's pretty much it. [Snip]

Just to clarify, I am speaking of here:

https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/home

[Edited for Bashing]

CP5

Part of the reason for the abstract numbers has to do with gear and character level. Crit chance is the biggest offender, a low level weapon only provides a hundred crit 'value', a level 3 set item will give as much crit as a level cp160 item on a cp160, but the required value to reach the crit rate changes as you level, so showing the raw value makes things somewhat more clear, but what's under it isn't clear to begin with. It would be odd to see a piece of gear get weaker as you level, but seeing your stats go down while you level doesn't feel any better.

Sylvermynx

CP5 wrote: »

Part of the reason for the abstract numbers has to do with gear and character level. Crit chance is the biggest offender, a low level weapon only provides a hundred crit 'value', a level 3 set item will give as much crit as a level cp160 item on a cp160, but the required value to reach the crit rate changes as you level, so showing the raw value makes things somewhat more clear, but what's under it isn't clear to begin with. It would be odd to see a piece of gear get weaker as you level, but seeing your stats go down while you level doesn't feel any better.

I had a really REALLY hard time with getting weaker as I leveled my first character to 50.... By the time she was CP10, it seemed like she couldn't kill anything.... I used XP scrolls and did daily writs from CP 10 to CP 160, filling in along the way with events. It was painful....

Milchbart

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

Please don't trivialise the game any more! It's not like the internet doesn't have places you can go to look up the things you don't understand. This forum, for one!

A game SHOULD NOT have to rely on third party sources to explain their own mechanics, and players should not have to go look up elsewhere but in the game to understand them.

Besides, if its so easy, please explain yourself. I'd be very surprised if anyone can explain in simple (and complete) words what "2629" critical chance actually means in ESO. I couldn't.

That's an easy question .. if it is not only rhetorical I suggest visiting the eso build editor where you can easily explore such things ... for example there is a detailed formula for this "Complete Formula for Spell Critical" under this url https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildEditor

Magdalina

The crit numbers one could indeed use clearer meaning. Resistances are bit more complicated given the way they all stack with each other and hidden hard cap but perhaps something could be done there as well.

But spell and weapon damage? Ew no, leave that as it is. They've done a great job bringing all this stuff to a common standard. When game launched, the damage of staves light/heavy attacks did actually scale with weapon damage whereas staves skills scaled with spell damage, and skills scaling was just seemingly random, but now it's really just 'everything to do with magicka scales with spell damage, everything to do with stamina scales with weapon damage' with a couple exceptions such as shields. Perhaps this should be emphasized a little clearer either in ingame tutorial or at least in help menu but this doesn't need to be dumbed down. Basically all ESO dps meta already is either stacking spell/weapon crit or stacking spell/weapon damage, we don't need this simplified even more.

Now the real issue is the mechanics (just simple stuff such as block/dodge/interrupt) which game sorta kinda shows you once in the tutorial and then you forget about them until you enter a vet dungeon and suddenly everything one-shots you.

Hapexamendios

The thing I have the hardest time with is which CP passives affect which combat skills.

Mayrael

For older players who are already used to ESO what the OP says seems like unnecessary fuss, but when I think of how many things a new player has to assimilate, how many things they have to look up on the internet instead of having in-game hints is overwhelming.

Everything the OP proposes makes sense and is logical.

mocap

they can also remove enormous amount of materials. Does anyone know what Silverweave material is? Or Sanded Mahogany? Materials beyond lvl 50 are super pointless. Also remove (or replace) crazy useless recepies like lvl 10 Сhamomile Tea and lvl 5 COFFEE. Nobody use it anyway. New players don't give a sh about that drinks, vet players don't give a sh about that drinks 9000 times harder.

Paulytnz

mocap wrote: »

they can also remove enormous amount of materials. Does anyone know what Silverweave material is? Or Sanded Mahogany? Materials beyond lvl 50 are super pointless. Also remove (or replace) crazy useless recipes like lvl 10 Сhamomile Tea and lvl 5 COFFEE. Nobody use it anyway. New players don't give a sh about that drinks, vet players don't give a sh about that drinks 9000 times harder.

Some recipes are simply there for immersion/roleplay or crafting writs. I bet you didn't know that the crafting writs for provisioning are different for each char depending on their alliance? I always thought there were only 3 different ones per tier myself when I first started out on my main char. But now that I have all 10 chars up and running I see that each alliance has their own separate 3 per tier. As for Imperial, they get whatever alliance you join.

Larcomar

Personally I like the complexity of the systems, and enjoy working through them. I certainly wouldn't want the game dumbed down further.

That said, I'd agree that some aspects are needlessly obtuse. Crit ratings being the obvious example. I can't see any reason not to just list the % there.

Others are more complex. Eg penetration. 500 pen might negate 1% of armor in pve, but it obviously doesn't in pvp where you 660 to negate player defences.