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"Tavern"/"Mini" games with gold wagers
Rezdayn
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Some people want tavern/mini games with gold wagers in the game. Table games in a tavern or a players home or betting on frog racing etc etc. Small mini games in which players could play for free or wager gold against each other. Not with a trust based system (trading before or after the game) but with a in game system to avoid all worries.
Some people dont want it. Even though it could be in the game and they could just not participate in it.
However I found it a bit odd that ZOS even used a photo of it happening in a "CROWN STORE SHOWCASE" yet we cant do it in game without the use of add-ons or trust based systems (RGB games for example).
So once again... I really wish they would add table/mini games or whatever they wanted into the game with a in game system to wager gold. Player vs player and even a player vs the house (ZOS) system.
I know some people will get confused by "However I found it a bit odd that ZOS even used a photo of it happening" so I will leave this little note at the bottom. The characters in the photo are clearly wagering gold over the emote. As seen by the gold on the table between them.
So anyways... Yea... it would be really cool to play table games in a tavern or a players home. It would also be really cool to bet on frogs and other weird little games.
Some people dont want it. Even though it could be in the game and they could just not participate in it.
However I found it a bit odd that ZOS even used a photo of it happening in a "CROWN STORE SHOWCASE" yet we cant do it in game without the use of add-ons or trust based systems (RGB games for example).
So once again... I really wish they would add table/mini games or whatever they wanted into the game with a in game system to wager gold. Player vs player and even a player vs the house (ZOS) system.
I know some people will get confused by "However I found it a bit odd that ZOS even used a photo of it happening" so I will leave this little note at the bottom. The characters in the photo are clearly wagering gold over the emote. As seen by the gold on the table between them.
So anyways... Yea... it would be really cool to play table games in a tavern or a players home. It would also be really cool to bet on frogs and other weird little games.
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GenjiraX✭✭✭✭✭I like it but my reaction to any of these suggestions is that I’d rather ZOS concentrate on fixing the plethora of bugs in the game and then focus on performance tweaks. I’d like to see them skip new content entirely in 2022 and put all their resources into bug-fixing.
That said, I can imagine a way this could work if the rock, paper, scissors emote is an actual game between three players with a winner, which is unlikely. What is the ‘trust system’? It may be that that’s what I’m thinking of. Otherwise, you could run set tasks within a guild. Maybe that already happens anyway. The wagering side is workable, betting on duels being the most obvious thing.1 -
Troodon80✭✭✭✭✭
✭Things like betting on duels as an implemented feature would probably be viewed as a gambling aspect, even if it's not real life money/crowns, A.K.A. zero-value currency. This would likely force ZOS into various legal entanglements regarding the same/similar gambling laws that certain countries have with loot crates (in a broader sense, most countries have gambling laws outside of loot crates, that's just an example of how it's handled; e.g. Belgians cannot purchase Crown Crates, they can't even see the Crown Crate category in the crown store). If ZOS requires a gambling licence for something that involves only a purely virtual in-game currency and not something you're paying for, like crowns, ZOS make no money. There's no incentive to spend money on gambling licences the world over when there's no return.
Trust systems between players already exist and what players do with each other outside of an implemented system can't really be policed by ZOS effectively. Duelling tournaments already exist, as do betting in said tournaments.
I would, however, like to see more mini-games that don't specifically involve the implementation of gambling. There are even "game" furnishings. e.g. Alinor Gaming Table, Punctilious Conflict@Troodon80 PC | EU
Guild: N&S
Hand of Alkosh | Dawnbringer | Immortal Redeemer | Tick Tock Tormentor | Gryphon Heart
Deep Dive into Dreadsail Reef Mechanics1 -
Chaos2088✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭It would be really cool to have these in taverns all across the world. Would make them sort of hubs, bringing abit more life into towns/taverns in game.
I would be doing these for sure if they were in game.@Chaos2088 PC EU Server | AD-PvP1 -
Rezdayn✭✭✭✭✭I like it but my reaction to any of these suggestions is that I’d rather ZOS concentrate on fixing the plethora of bugs in the game and then focus on performance tweaks. I’d like to see them skip new content entirely in 2022 and put all their resources into bug-fixing.
That said, I can imagine a way this could work if the rock, paper, scissors emote is an actual game between three players with a winner, which is unlikely. What is the ‘trust system’? It may be that that’s what I’m thinking of. Otherwise, you could run set tasks within a guild. Maybe that already happens anyway. The wagering side is workable, betting on duels being the most obvious thing.
I think they should be able to do both. I would hate it if they stop making content. I have finished everything else already which is another reason why I want smaller things like this added.Things like betting on duels as an implemented feature would probably be viewed as a gambling aspect, even if it's not real life money/crowns, A.K.A. zero-value currency. This would likely force ZOS into various legal entanglements regarding the same/similar gambling laws that certain countries have with loot crates (in a broader sense, most countries have gambling laws outside of loot crates, that's just an example of how it's handled; e.g. Belgians cannot purchase Crown Crates, they can't even see the Crown Crate category in the crown store). If ZOS requires a gambling licence for something that involves only a purely virtual in-game currency and not something you're paying for, like crowns, ZOS make no money. There's no incentive to spend money on gambling licences the world over when there's no return.
Trust systems between players already exist and what players do with each other outside of an implemented system can't really be policed by ZOS effectively. Duelling tournaments already exist, as do betting in said tournaments.
I would, however, like to see more mini-games that don't specifically involve the implementation of gambling. There are even "game" furnishings. e.g. Alinor Gaming Table, Punctilious Conflict
Other games seem to be okay doing it. You can even bet on duels in Runscape. As long as its a in game currency I think its legit fine.It would be really cool to have these in taverns all across the world. Would make them sort of hubs, bringing abit more life into towns/taverns in game.
I would be doing these for sure if they were in game.
I think it would really add a lot of reason for people to congregate at a tavern or a players house decked out to be a casino etc.3 -
tohopka_eso✭✭✭✭Kinda like FFXIV gold saucer it sounds like. I could get into that if ESO had it.1 -
Troodon80✭✭✭✭✭
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It's not exactly the same and it's worth noting that ESO isn't Runescape. Runescape has also had its fair share of criticism. There are various issues that come up regarding this, and it's not for us to define what is and is not "legit fine." To me, Crown Crates have always been "legit fine" and it's up to people to be responsible and spend only what they can afford to lose. Yet we have countries putting up legistlation to prevent lootboxes/crates. This isn't a simple matter and it's up to ZOS's legal department. To top it off, ESO has been rife with Real Money Trading (RMT) to the point of banning people trading crowns for large sums of gold, even banning brokers involved with helping/handling the transactions. ZOS are doing what they reasonably can, but there's no way to stop large sums of gold passing hands, and an "official" gambling system between players also opens up the possibility of additional RMT issues.Other games seem to be okay doing it. You can even bet on duels in Runscape. As long as its a in game currency I think its legit fine.
It comes down to a couple different issues:- Should the game copy what others have done or just do its own thing?
- How will the system be implemented; Is there a mediator, is there a broker, is it completely automated?
- If they want to implement a form of gambling, how wide is the net for things that you can bet on or win; gold, crowns, mini-games, duelling, anything, etc.? Bearing in mind that gold can be traded for crown items or visa versa via player to player interaction, and, by extension, obviously crown crates are included in that.
- If the system can be classified as gambling by various gambling authorities around the world, will they need a gambling licence; if so, what return for their investment in implementing it will there be to offset that cost?
- How much will the system be abused for real world money?
- How do you deal with real world money abuse of the system; how do you moderate the system that you're proposing?
Edited by Troodon80 on 30 July 2021 14:55@Troodon80 PC | EU
Guild: N&S
Hand of Alkosh | Dawnbringer | Immortal Redeemer | Tick Tock Tormentor | Gryphon Heart
Deep Dive into Dreadsail Reef Mechanics0 -
Rezdayn✭✭✭✭✭
It's not exactly the same and it's worth noting that ESO isn't Runescape. Runescape has also had its fair share of criticism. There are various issues that come up regarding this, and it's not for us to define what is and is not "legit fine." To me, Crown Crates have always been "legit fine" and it's up to people to be responsible and spend only what they can afford to lose. Yet we have countries putting up legistlation to prevent lootboxes/crates. This isn't a simple matter and it's up to ZOS's legal department. To top it off, ESO has been rife with Real Money Trading (RMT) to the point of banning people trading crowns for large sums of gold, even banning brokers involved with helping/handling the transactions. ZOS are doing what they reasonably can, but there's no way to stop large sums of gold passing hands, and an "official" gambling system between players also opens up the possibility of additional RMT issues.Other games seem to be okay doing it. You can even bet on duels in Runscape. As long as its a in game currency I think its legit fine.
It comes down to a couple different issues:- Should the game copy what others have done or just do its own thing?
- How will the system be implemented; Is there a mediator, is there a broker, is it completely automated?
- If they want to implement a form of gambling, how wide is the net for things that you can bet on or win; gold, crowns, mini-games, duelling, anything, etc.? Bearing in mind that gold can be traded for crown items or visa versa via player to player interaction, and, by extension, obviously crown crates are included in that.
- If the system can be classified as gambling by various gambling authorities around the world, will they need a gambling licence; if so, what return for their investment in implementing it will there be to offset that cost?
- How much will the system be abused for real world money?
- How do you deal with real world money abuse of the system; how do you moderate the system that you're proposing?
The same way other mmos have already done it.2 -
El_Borracho✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭They have this in Red Dead. Some are fun, others are tedious. Some had achievements tied to them which made them a headache (if anyone has played, the win at blackjack after drawing 3+ cards is a perfect example). I could only imagine what would happen if they tied a lead to a tavern game0 -
Rezdayn✭✭✭✭✭El_Borracho wrote: »They have this in Red Dead. Some are fun, others are tedious. Some had achievements tied to them which made them a headache (if anyone has played, the win at blackjack after drawing 3+ cards is a perfect example). I could only imagine what would happen if they tied a lead to a tavern game
Id be okay with nothing being tied to them and them just being used as filler. However I would also be okay with leads and achievements tbh. I just want more to do at the end.1 -
JJOtterBear✭✭✭✭So basically it would be this game's version of Dabo from STO? I could enjoy that.0
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master_vanargand✭✭✭✭✭
✭Casinos are effective against inflation.
House (ZOS) can absorb a significant amount of gold in the world.1 -
Throxx✭✭✭master_vanargand wrote: »Casinos are effective against inflation.
House (ZOS) can absorb a significant amount of gold in the world.
The only way to win is not to play.0 -
RisenEclipse✭✭✭✭✭Emmagoldman wrote: »Easiest thing would have been to put TES legends as a mini game
I was just thinking of this. They could even go the Gwent route from the Witcher and have us be able to collect the cards in the game. Even have it be playable between NPCs or players with a ranking system between players. I honestly don't mind gambling with in game gold with NPCs. Players I wouldn't recommend. But I think it would be a neat mini game to add for those who want to get away from the traditional PvP and PvE.1 -
nightstrike✭✭✭✭✭To top it off, ESO has been rife with Real Money Trading (RMT) to the point of banning people trading crowns for large sums of gold, even banning brokers involved with helping/handling the transactions. ZOS are doing what they reasonably can, but there's no way to stop large sums of gold passing hands, and an "official" gambling system between players also opens up the possibility of additional RMT issues.
Huh? Trading gold for crown gifts is allowed.....Warning: This signature is tiny!0 -
hafgood✭✭✭✭✭
✭I'm not interested in this being added to the game but I think the issues have been described quite well.
1. Gambling licences, the odds are Zos would need gambling licences all over the globe should players be able to gamble against other players, even though its a fake currency its still gambling and authorities are not stupid and will soon realise that it isn't fake money.
2. RWT - gambling between players is a great way to facilitate real world trading. Makes it a lot easier than selling a potato for 1 million gold.
3. Disputes. What happens with disputed games? And believe me there will.be those that cheat, those that scam, and those that accuse others of doing so.
Sounds like a lot of work for Zos legal dept, plus for the programmers to make it work..oh and how is the work paid for?0 -
nightstrike✭✭✭✭✭Gambling laws don't apply when the declared value of the stuff is zero. Belgium not withstanding, this is how loot crates get around the law.Edited by nightstrike on 1 August 2021 02:33Warning: This signature is tiny!0
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Kalik_Gold✭✭✭✭✭
✭Agree make a gold based “fun” area.Main: (PvP & PvE)PS5/NA - Ras Kalik a Redguard Templar - Daggerfall Covenant • 1550+ Champion
Ras Kalik a Redguard Templar, the Vestige
PvP:
Aurik Siet'ka a Redguard Necromancer
Cacique the Sage of Ius a Redguard Warden
Jux Blackheart a Redguard Nightblade
Goliath of Hammerfell a Redguard Dragonknight
Kaotik Von Dae'mon a Redguard* Sorcerer
PvP: (Specialty)
Tyrus Septim an Imperial Lycan Sorcerer
Tsar af-Bomba a Redguard Vampiric Nightblade
Movárth Piquine a Nord Vampiric Necromancer
Uri Ice-Heart the Twin a Nord Vampiric Warden
PvE:
Cinan Tharn an Imperial Dragonknight
Bates Vesuius of Dawnstar an Imperial Dragonknight
Herzog Zwei the Genesis an Akavari* Templar
Tav'i at-Shinji a Redguard** Warden
Lucky Hunch the Gambler - a Redguard Nightblade
Leveling...
Zenovia at-Tura a Redguard** Sorcerer
Yesi af-Kalik a Redguard Templar
Voa a Priest of Sep a Redguard* Necromancer
======
Passives of another race used. (RP)
*Breton
**Imperial
__________________________Backstories:_________________________
Ras Kalik the Vestige, a renown Redguard warrior; He has been blessed to save Tamriel from Molag Bal’s destructive Planemeld while reuniting the Five Companions. His further accomplishments after defeating Molag Bal, has been to stop the destruction of Morrowind, the Clockwork City, return order to the isle of Summerset and create a new king in Wrothgar and a queen in Elsywer. These events have made him a living legend and continue to lead him into new adventures throughout Tamriel, as well as into the hearts of many ladies including the Elf Queen, Aryenn. Over many years of adventurous travels, Ras Kalik had become a loner, until he re-visited his homeland of Alik'r.
Alik'r and it's cities were overrun by the undead Ra-Netu and therefore he made an allegiance with Alik'r's own Ash'abah tribe. These Ash'abah with his help, cleansed the city of Sentinel in Alik'r desert and it's surrounding areas of the undead brought to life by the Withered Hand. After rescuing Sentinel from the undead zombies, King Fahara’jad’s personal bodyguard the Goliath of Hammerfell, who was given this name by Imperials in the region; was asked to assist the tribe after learning of the defeat of the Withered Hand to the Ash'abah. Kalik promised Goliath he would task him with fighting living enemies on the battlefield if he so desired. Goliath being a Yokudan warrior wields a massive sword in respect to the Ansei, a gift given by the Imperial, Cinan Tharn. Not many soldiers are able to wield double two handed weapons, but Goliath loves to get up and personal in a fight, so he also carries a giant maul, both weapons laced with magical flames.
Jux Blackheart is a master thief that masquerades as a Bard at the Sisters of the Sands inn, with his younger sidekick Lucky Hunch for pilfering and gambling during this time. Jux was known to infiltrate any towns bank vault he came across and even delved into Ayelid ruins without detection. Kalik can vividly recall the night he met the famed thief. Jux found himself rummaging thru a slightly inebriated Kalik’s pocket for too long, on a full-mooned night and because of his greed and the glimmer of his golden armor in the moonlight. He lost his left pinky fingertip as a lesson! But in return, he gained a new friend, as it was his first time since a child being caught red-handed...
Upon arrival back in the Alik'r after many moons of adventuring, Ras Kalik ventures to Bergama. Visiting The Winking Jackal, he runs into Jux Blackheart, who introduces him to the coin game Crowns vs Forebearers (Heads vs Tails) and Golden Dwemer (RBG).... Jux constantly takes gold from the unfortunate thru theft or gambling, his biggest gambling victim is actually his partner in crime known as Lucky Hunch the Gambler. Lucky doesn't mind losing any gold coins to Jux... as Jux saved him from Altmer slavers in Summerset, by stealing a key and sending him on a boat to the mainland years prior. Lucky spent years in slavery with Khajiits in Summerset and picked up the art of subterfuge, using illusion magic disguises and stealing there.
Kaotik Von’Daemon an outcast, and a half-caste between a Breton mother and a Redguard father. Kaotik become a pariah due to his conjuration of Daedra pets. He was taught healing magic during his childhood years by his Breton mother. His father due to Redguard customs exiled him from the desert, sending him by wagon caravan to be a soldier in the war in Cyrodiil. He happened to meet Kalik while traveling from Alik'r, during this long caravan ride the caravan he was in was ambushed in Bangkorai by a group of bandits. Kalik by chance was also traveling thru this area on his Auridon Warhorse (which was bestowed to him by his friend, Darien Gautier). During this ambush, Kalik was able to rescue five hostages from the bandits. Kaotik was the first rescued, and Ras Kalik also recruited him to be in the Ash'abah tribe. These core Ash'abah tribesmen may never be seen together in travel as they partake in their own adventures but they always know what each other is doing; as they frequent a hideout in northern Bankorai. Their hideout an old Orc castle ruin, is kept watch by Nuzhimeh and she passes messages written between them, and frequently they also enjoy her company and her bed.
The other men rescued were a Dunmer banker, an Imperial mercenary and two other soldiers, an Imperial and a Breton Knight, stating proudly he was an Akavir descendent. One of the Imperials, Cinan, claimed to be related to Abnur Tharn the Battlemage of the Imperial Elder Council (One of Ras Kalik's mentors in the Five Companions). Cinan Tharn was really Abnur's drunkard treasure hunting illegitimate son. He was caught smuggling artifacts out of the Ayleid ruins in Cyrodiil and the elder of the two Imperials was Tyrus Septim a retired Imperial navy battle-mage (now a Lycan mercenary living in the city of Rimmen) and guard to the Tharn family. As much as Abnur Tharn hated his half-sister Euraxia, he dislikes his bas†ard son Cinan more. Tyrus now a ruffian and privateer had been paid by Abnur Tharn to watch over Cinan as much as possible. Cinan Tharn a drunkard, loves to drink at least a quarter barrel of Nord mead before he raids various delves and dungeons for relics to sell on the black market. Cinan also plans to one day, run an illegal gambling ring... which he thinks will net him more gold for his wares.
The Dunmer captive shackled to the Imperials looked familiar to Kalik from his time in Morrowind.... and he recognized him as Tythis Andromo a House Telvanni slave-owner and banker from Vvardenfell. During a rough interrogation to Tythis, Ras Kalik learnt why the bandits accosted him. The racist Dunmer was providing slaves as soldiers for the Three Banner War. The bandits were trying to negotiate a lucrative ransom for Andromo and the Imperials.... Kalik did not need any of this gold and he could never set Tythis free as he did with the two Imperial soldiers. His past involvement with slavery and war crimes, made Kalik's blood boil. He chose not to execute Tythis, as he figured the worse punishment for this former rich and opulent slave owner, is to now be an imprisoned servant for Ras Kalik and the tribe.
Herzog Zwei the Genesis a reknown Imperial/Akavirri battle-mage. His roots going back to Akavir through his mother’s bloodline. (His mother is descended from the Akaviri, through Versidue-Shae, and his Imperial father met her in Hakoshae, while traveling) Herzog earned the nickname "the Genesis" from his father as a child, as he was his mother's first born child, and last, as she tragically died in child-birth.
Herzog was seeking to purchase an artifact from Cinan Tharn, before their capture and was meeting Tyrus while in Rimmen, who introduced him to Cinan. This artifact being the Ayelid artifact; the sword Sinweaver. After their rescue and the exchange of gold to Cinan for the sword he decided to slip away before Ras Kalik could question who he was, and why the Akavir descendant really wanted that sword. Herzog was headed to Nagastani — An Ayleid ruin in eastern Cyrodiil. He had read in scrolls that the Sword would give him magical powers to meet his mothers spirit, if he performed an Ayleid ritual at an old shrine hidden there. Equipped with the artifact sword, he was off to start his own adventure but Ras Kalik, did indeed notice the sword however and instead sent a letter to Jux Blackheart (whom also was interested in Ayleid treasures), to attempt to find Herzog and acquire the sword. (*Azani Blackheart in Elder Scroll's Oblivion is Jux's descendant some 747 years later)
And so the Redguard, Imperial and Akaviri men parted ways ... While Ras Kalik went off to Elsweyr to encounter the latest threat to Tamriel, with Abnur Tharn and Sai Sahan - - DRAGONS!! Little did Ras Kalik know a few people were awaiting him in Senchal besides Sai. A necromancer survived his attack on the Withered Hand, while in Alik'r. The necromancer known as Auriek Siet'ka is also following him to the land of the Khajiits and Cacique the Sage of Ius a Shaman mystic who has become attuned spiritually with Tu'whacca (a Redguard God) and Ius (the Animal God), after being burned severely by the escaped dragons in Elsywer, is awaiting his arrival also. Aurik is a soldier of the Daggerfall Covenant that was introduced to necromancy while in the military, even though this magicka art is not spoken of openly by most of the Military leaders. He came to Alik'r and worked with the Withered Hand before Ras Kalik intervened on their plans. After the defeat of the Withered Hand, he aligned with the Worm Cult, and is constantly adapting and perfecting his necromantic arts.
After his journey to Rimmen, Kalik heads south to Senchal, in the southern regions of Elyswer. This new adventure will also put him on a path to meet a strange Redguard man. The stranger which was infected with an untreated Peyrite disease and also was the exiled from the Order of the New Moon cult, due to his sickness. He originally joined the cult to worship Laatvulon, the green dragon, mistakenly thinking it was the Daedric prince Peyrite. This confused and suffering cultist is known as Tsar al-Bomba and he is on a path to spread the disease. He was originally infected in Orccrest while recruiting members there. Can Ras Kalik and the shaman Cacique cure this poor soul, only time will tell. Little does Tsar al-Bomba know, that his infection is tied to Vampirism, and eventually the desire for blood will take over his mind. Senchal also offers Kalik his latest love interest... Aeliah. Whom he fondly led thru battles with the Dragonguard.
After the trek thru the heat, tropical and desert climate of Northern and Southern Elyswer, Ras Kalik heads north to the cold mountain range of Skyrim. His companion friend Lyris beckons for him with a letter sent by crow...
Movárth Piquine - a former vampire hunter (now infected), within the Fighter's Guild (and a secretive necromancer) was in Skyrim working with the Morthaal Guard. On a patrol mission he was caught in Frewien's ice curse outside of Morthaal with the frozen undead. Movárth's vampiric infection kept him from becoming an undead minion to the curse. He was able to use necromantic ice-magic to encase himself safely until he was freed with Freiwen, when the Vestige Ras Kalik broke the curse.
Uri Ice-Heart - brother of Urfon Ice-Heart. The twin sons of Atli and Oljourn Ice-Heart. The Ice-Heart family are originally from Markarth but now reside on the Jerall Mountain range near Cyrodiil, with their younger sister Araki. The twins had joined the Winterborn Reachmen while living in Markarth. Urfon pushed west to Orsinium with the Winterborn Clan, leaving his family behind. Uri stayed behind with his parents and sister to live in the family cabin for safety, avoiding the Vampire plague infiltrating the Reach. After news reaches him and he hears of Urfon's death... Uri leaves and heads home and is seeking vengeance. Meanwhile, his sister has also moved on to Windhelm to join the Fighter's guild. He will visit his sister, once before going to seek vengeance and she will craft him armor mixed with ice, called Stalhrim armor. Uri fearing death, after his brother's passing, falls victim to the convincing talk of Movárth at a Nordic tavern, and will also becomes a vampire.
{time moves forward through the hour-glass}0 -
Rezdayn✭✭✭✭✭nightstrike wrote: »Gambling laws don't apply when the declared value of the stuff is zero. Belgium not withstanding, this is how loot crates get around the law.0
