Nice Reminder that Dragons Suck!

ADarklore

It's BECAUSE of dragons that I created a "Monster Hunter" build for my stamina melee characters. Basically I switch to five pcs heavy armor and focus on using range abilities. Most stamina melee characters use a bow backbar, so it's not a big deal to switch to a range loadout.

Just an example of why I'm very thankful that addons like AlphaGear exist!!

GOAT4EVAR

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

- Instant kill abilities that give no notification ahead of time. (May be lag, but that still interrupts the game.
- Long times between spawns.
- Poor wayshrine placement so it is far too easy for the dragon to get killed before you can get there.

Didn't the devs think of these?

Not even sure what these complaints are tbh.
1. Instant kill abilities - Yea its a dragon, what do you expect? pay attention and you will be fine 9/10 times.
2. I can see both sides here, and feel free to correct me if im wrong but i believe the spawn timer on dragons are 10-15min so sure that is a bit long for people that doesn't always have the time to spend multiple hours a day on a game.
3. Poor wayshrine placement is not the reason people arent getting to the dragons in time. pay attention to when the dragon spawn and you will get there on time, every time unless you take a wacky route or dont go there directly after seeing the dragon is flying towards its landing ground.

Girl_Number8

•You can join a group for the event, if you’re having an issue. Make some friends while having fun and getting all that loot.

kamimark

Station yourself in the Stitches if you're in N.Elsweyr, it's one of the fastest routes to 2/3 of the dragons, and wayshrine is right next to the N one.

Ancient advice from WoW, EQ, and FFXI at least: Don't stand in stupid. Use ranged attacks, make your companion use ranged attacks, roll out of the red, watch your companion stand there and die. Sometimes they manage to roll-dodge out.

Purge when you have something on you. If you don't have a purge yet, go run around Cyrodil (I know) and get one there, for just this case.

Kill the adds when they spawn, they don't respect your personal space and avoidance of red circles.

And with that, you're ready to hunt dragons and never die. You can clear 3 in half an hour or less.

Lugaldu

Dragon hunt can be fun - in southern Elsweyr. I usually save that for the time of the Witches Festival. But dragon hunt in northern Elsweyr ... no thanks.

aaisoaho

kamimark wrote: »

Station yourself in the Stitches if you're in N.Elsweyr, it's one of the fastest routes to 2/3 of the dragons, and wayshrine is right next to the N one.

Ancient advice from WoW, EQ, and FFXI at least: Don't stand in stupid. Use ranged attacks, make your companion use ranged attacks, roll out of the red, watch your companion stand there and die. Sometimes they manage to roll-dodge out.

Purge when you have something on you. If you don't have a purge yet, go run around Cyrodil (I know) and get one there, for just this case.

Kill the adds when they spawn, they don't respect your personal space and avoidance of red circles.

And with that, you're ready to hunt dragons and never die. You can clear 3 in half an hour or less.

I disagree on the "use ranged attacks". I main a stam sorc so I'm used to melee. The dragons are not a problem for me, I can still melee them. The trick? Stay at the edge of the dragon's AoE and attack from either the tail-side (you just need to watch out for the tail - it is quite clear when you're going to be hit by the tail, and this move you can block!) or position yourself about halfway between the head and the wing (just like stacking on dragons in Sunspire).

fall0athboy

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

The instant kill abilities are all pretty well telegraphed. The DoT that deals hella damage unless you purge it is kinda rough, but otherwise I feel like dragons scale well with more players involved thanks to the 1-shots.

And yeah, the Northern Elsweyr ones are pretty slow during the event, but outside of it they're not as bad due to lower traffic.

The DoT that can be purged? Soul Break or Smash or whatever? I didn't know you could purge it, I just outhealed it.

I have no clue why the NE dragons are on a 10 minute timer and then it feels the SE dragons are on a 5 minute.

Honestly, worst part for me is that I'm trying to get the stupid adds achievements. Should've done it on release, but whatever. Now I'm stuck trying to get more iron atros and praying we don't melt the dragon faster than it can fly.

FlopsyPrince

Yeah, it is so immersive to tag a dragon, then retreat out of range and let others kill it. Really makes me feel part of being in an MMO!

And I don't care how many times people repeat foolishness like "stay out of stupid" - that is not possible when "stupid" is not clearly warned. That is far more than 1/10 times, especially since lag seems so common.

And getting to a dragon before it dies is much harder during an event like this when so many are beating on the dragon. Quite hard without max riding speed. Not sure if faster riding speed would help or not. I am betting those who say this is not a concern have had max riding speed for so long they have forgotten its impact.

fall0athboy

Building on this Iron Atronach achievement:

Seriously who decided that making grey dragons summon three types of adds was a good idea?

katanagirl1

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

Yeah, it is so immersive to tag a dragon, then retreat out of range and let others kill it. Really makes me feel part of being in an MMO!

And I don't care how many times people repeat foolishness like "stay out of stupid" - that is not possible when "stupid" is not clearly warned. That is far more than 1/10 times, especially since lag seems so common.

And getting to a dragon before it dies is much harder during an event like this when so many are beating on the dragon. Quite hard without max riding speed. Not sure if faster riding speed would help or not. I am betting those who say this is not a concern have had max riding speed for so long they have forgotten its impact.

If you have the dragon daily for either north or south Elsweyr, it shows the circles where the dragons spawn. There are only 3 in Northern, and they are spread out, but the dragons spawn usually counterclockwise, so you can get a head start once one gets killed and ride on to edge of the next spot. There is a long wait there to take advantage of to help you. If you watch the map you can see a pattern of how they fly and know where they will land.

Southern map actually marks the separate areas within the larger 2 circles where the dragon might land (Northern does not). It’s not so far from the wayshrines there, though. If it’s really busy there you can just stay at one of the areas and not try to hit both and make it easier on yourself.

I’m really enjoying this event because you can do non-stop dragon farming, especially in the northern area which has been dead for a long time. It’s just as exciting as when the chapter launched.

I want to get more antiquity leads and this is the best time to do it.

FlopsyPrince

katanagirl1 wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

Yeah, it is so immersive to tag a dragon, then retreat out of range and let others kill it. Really makes me feel part of being in an MMO!

And I don't care how many times people repeat foolishness like "stay out of stupid" - that is not possible when "stupid" is not clearly warned. That is far more than 1/10 times, especially since lag seems so common.

And getting to a dragon before it dies is much harder during an event like this when so many are beating on the dragon. Quite hard without max riding speed. Not sure if faster riding speed would help or not. I am betting those who say this is not a concern have had max riding speed for so long they have forgotten its impact.

If you have the dragon daily for either north or south Elsweyr, it shows the circles where the dragons spawn. There are only 3 in Northern, and they are spread out, but the dragons spawn usually counterclockwise, so you can get a head start once one gets killed and ride on to edge of the next spot. There is a long wait there to take advantage of to help you. If you watch the map you can see a pattern of how they fly and know where they will land.

Southern map actually marks the separate areas within the larger 2 circles where the dragon might land (Northern does not). It’s not so far from the wayshrines there, though. If it’s really busy there you can just stay at one of the areas and not try to hit both and make it easier on yourself.

I’m really enjoying this event because you can do non-stop dragon farming, especially in the northern area which has been dead for a long time. It’s just as exciting as when the chapter launched.

I want to get more antiquity leads and this is the best time to do it.

That may work fine if you have max speed. I do not. 30/60 boost is my top. Northern Elsweyr was still setup very poorly.

I am surprised they did not realize this and think about it ahead of time. It is VERY frustrating to go as fast as I can to a dragon, only to get there right after it died.

I HATE Soul Tear as well, especially on my Nightblade who only has a self-heal when he is damaging something, he can't do that with a dragon, so I get another death if I am close enough to shoot my bow.

PrimeSeptim

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

I HATE Soul Tear as well, especially on my Nightblade who only has a self-heal when he is damaging something, he can't do that with a dragon, so I get another death if I am close enough to shoot my bow.

There is skill called 'Purge' in the PvP 'Support' skill tree.

Just slot that for dragon encounters and Soul Tear will no longer be an issue.

I know you're having to sacrifice a skill slot but eh, they die fast enough anyway
and you're saving your own skin/gold on repairs which is worth it. Make self preservation your #1 priority.

FlopsyPrince

PrimeSeptim wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

I HATE Soul Tear as well, especially on my Nightblade who only has a self-heal when he is damaging something, he can't do that with a dragon, so I get another death if I am close enough to shoot my bow.

There is skill called 'Purge' in the PvP 'Support' skill tree.

Just slot that for dragon encounters and Soul Tear will no longer be an issue.

I know you're having to sacrifice a skill slot but eh, they die fast enough anyway
and you're saving your own skin/gold on repairs which is worth it. Make self preservation your #1 priority.

I would have to level the PvP skills then, right? That may not take long for some, but it is longer for people like me who suck at PvP.

spartaxoxo

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

PrimeSeptim wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

I HATE Soul Tear as well, especially on my Nightblade who only has a self-heal when he is damaging something, he can't do that with a dragon, so I get another death if I am close enough to shoot my bow.

There is skill called 'Purge' in the PvP 'Support' skill tree.

Just slot that for dragon encounters and Soul Tear will no longer be an issue.

I know you're having to sacrifice a skill slot but eh, they die fast enough anyway
and you're saving your own skin/gold on repairs which is worth it. Make self preservation your #1 priority.

I would have to level the PvP skills then, right? That may not take long for some, but it is longer for people like me who suck at PvP.

Do some Battlegrounds to get it, it's worth it for more fights than just the Dragon. And if you get rewarded for Battlegrounds no matter how well you do.

FlopsyPrince

I understood that you only got credit if you won a battleground.

Though I hesitate to gimp one side....

BloodyStigmata

I believe the insta-kill you're thinking of is Flaming/Freezing/Shocking Point, or something to that effect.

All dragon varieties have an elemental ring underneath them pretty much at all times when they're on the ground. If you stand within range of that ring for longer than a few seconds, you get instantly zapped for an ungodly amount of damage. It's why everyone, including whoever is tanking the dragon, needs to give it enough space. It's also the reason you don't want it landing on you. Now, I haven't yet tried to take it with magma armor on, so I don't know if it can kill you through that too, but I'm not about to try.

katanagirl1

Do PvP for stamina Vigor skill for your NB (if stam build).

Yeah, pretty much no one likes getting it but once you have it, it will make your life so much easier.

I fought it for a long time but I ran with the zerg and got hooked and now I love Cyrodiil.

Supreme_Atromancer

I think the challenge level of Dragons (and Harrowstorms) is great tbh, but I really do agree that there is room for improvement when it comes to broadcasting attacks and mechanics in a way that makes them easily understandable. This isn't just a matter of just dragons either - its systemic. Worse is the trend to actually capitalise on ambiguity in signals, fainter or non-existent telegraphs, multiple attacks with almost identical names and reflex checks that require observation of a telegraph that kill you before the telegraph even happens (especially at 230+ ping). These things encourage reliance on addons because the stated aim of reading the environment is not done well.

As for the fire boss in Southern Elsweyr, it absolutely is soloable. If you take out all but one of the apprentices, others wont spawn and you can easily take down the boss without having to manage so much incoming damage.

Regarding difficulty with Stamina builds - isn't that the trade-off for higher potential damage, though? There's supposed to be high risk and positional management, its not just free bonus damage bc screw magicka.

spartaxoxo

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

I understood that you only got credit if you won a battleground.

Though I hesitate to gimp one side....

@FlopsyPrince
Nope. You get credit win or lose. Winner only gets a bonus chance at a style page and slightly better loot that a lot of people who really do it a lot probably have the full set by now anyway. They also try to have a little bit of skill matchmaking if there is enough people in the queue to do so, so it's not a big deal to be inexperienced in BGs.

The main thing about battlegrounds is enjoying small scale pvp, and ensuring that everyone can be rewarded rather than the winner take all system of the other forms of pvp

FlopsyPrince

katanagirl1 wrote: »

Do PvP for stamina Vigor skill for your NB (if stam build).

Yeah, pretty much no one likes getting it but once you have it, it will make your life so much easier.

I fought it for a long time but I ran with the zerg and got hooked and now I love Cyrodiil.

I will work on that then.

FlopsyPrince

Supreme_Atromancer wrote: »

I think the challenge level of Dragons (and Harrowstorms) is great tbh, but I really do agree that there is room for improvement when it comes to broadcasting attacks and mechanics in a way that makes them easily understandable. This isn't just a matter of just dragons either - its systemic. Worse is the trend to actually capitalise on ambiguity in signals, fainter or non-existent telegraphs, multiple attacks with almost identical names and reflex checks that require observation of a telegraph that kill you before the telegraph even happens (especially at 230+ ping). These things encourage reliance on addons because the stated aim of reading the environment is not done well.

As for the fire boss in Southern Elsweyr, it absolutely is soloable. If you take out all but one of the apprentices, others wont spawn and you can easily take down the boss without having to manage so much incoming damage.

Regarding difficulty with Stamina builds - isn't that the trade-off for higher potential damage, though? There's supposed to be high risk and positional management, its not just free bonus damage bc screw magicka.

I use a bow. I think I have to use stamina, at least for any normal build.

I ironically had a bow on my pet sorc for a while when I first started and leveled it to 49, before I realized that error.

Ken_Koerperich

kamimark wrote: »

Station yourself in the Stitches if you're in N.Elsweyr, it's one of the fastest routes to 2/3 of the dragons, and wayshrine is right next to the N one.

Ancient advice from WoW, EQ, and FFXI at least: Don't stand in stupid. Use ranged attacks, make your companion use ranged attacks, roll out of the red, watch your companion stand there and die. Sometimes they manage to roll-dodge out.

Purge when you have something on you. If you don't have a purge yet, go run around Cyrodil (I know) and get one there, for just this case.

Kill the adds when they spawn, they don't respect your personal space and avoidance of red circles.

And with that, you're ready to hunt dragons and never die. You can clear 3 in half an hour or less.

Kinda hard to run Cyrodil when there is NOBODY there currently.

Spent 2 hours out there last night trying to get skills up.

I'm to low to solo anything out there, so I got squat done but waste 2 hours of my life...

Aelsioln

If you're having lag try turning your settings down when you plan on fighting a dragon. If your settings are already at the lowest, I hate to say it, but then that's your computer. I used to play ESO on a cheapo refurbished laptop and had a ton of lag, would die to "invisible" attacks all the time. I started saving up, gradually bought parts, and built myself a desktop for like $1,400 total. Now I can do dragon fights, even during this event, with my settings on high and no lag or unseen attacks. I know how irritating it is to hear stuff like this but it is true.

Yeah the dragons have attacks that can seriously mess you up if you don't block or dodge in time but that's kinda the whole point to them? They're dragons. They're supposed to be a challenge. Each attack does have a tell that you can learn and thus know when you need to react.

As for getting to the dragons before they die I did have this problem too until I looked up and found an addon that shows you where the dragon is going to land before it has. Now I either get there before the dragon or at the latest I get there before they get to half health. Obviously having good mount speed helps here and I actually only recently realized that the first passive in the Assault skills (Continuous Attack) gives your mount a 30% speed boost at all times for the low price of 1 skill point.

If my level 25 Nightblade, wearing blue level 10 training gear, can survive a dragon fight I'm pretty sure the dragons are fine.
I actually prefer ESO dragons as the Skyrim dragons never felt like an actual threat.

FlopsyPrince

I did find another self heal (Assault: Resolving Vigor). That allows me to heal past the Soul Rend if I am on top of it.

I tried the dragon addons, but they messed up the chat addon.

kamimark

Ken_Koerperich wrote: »

kamimark wrote: »

Purge when you have something on you. If you don't have a purge yet, go run around Cyrodil (I know) and get one there, for just this case.

Kinda hard to run Cyrodil when there is NOBODY there currently.
Spent 2 hours out there last night trying to get skills up.
I'm to low to solo anything out there, so I got squat done but waste 2 hours of my life...

There's some cheap ways to level it without being a fearsome PVP ganker. Do the scouting missions, especially if there's nobody playing. If there's a base group, buy some wall repair kits and fix things; it's straight gold -> AP and skill experience. You should hit up the towns and do their dailies.

You only need to reach Support 4 to unlock Purge.

FlopsyPrince

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

I did find another self heal (Assault: Resolving Vigor). That allows me to heal past the Soul Rend if I am on top of it.

I tried the dragon addons, but they messed up the chat addon.

I did get the dragon addons working and I wonder why noting where the dragon will be is not a part of the game already.

Smoky

Girl_Number8 wrote: »

•You can join a group for the event, if you’re having an issue. Make some friends while having fun and getting all that loot.

Thanks to that picture I nearly choked I laughed so hard. Love it

finehair

Love it when the dragon does that spitting fire attack while flying over head and see people on the fiery line get insta killed.
That's a dragon fight i was hoping to see, death all around.

Magdalina

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

If you think dragons are bad try the fire mage WB in Southern Elsweyr, impossible to solo while I can hold my own against a dragon for a while.

He has mechanics. He is very possible to solo if you know them. The trick to him is that once his ads hit 50% health, they go in that fire circle phase during which any damage done to mobs in that circle will return to you. Not just damage to the ad - if boss is inside that circle, attacking him is a big, resounding NO too.

Knowing that, there're several ways around that fight:

1) if you're tanky or dodge-y enough, just flat ignore ads and strictly single target boss. Be careful to not hit ads, you don't want them to drop below 50. In normal stage, ads will shoot fireballs at you, which you can eat or dodge (the damage is pretty high but nowhere near as insane as while in fire circle stage)

2) if you, like me, are not tanky or dodge-y, you have 2 options. First is to slowly kill ads one by one. Once they go in fire circle stage, you can CC them out of it (if you don't, they will eventually go out of it too, in like 10 seconds or something) and quickly finish them (do do it quickly because otherwise they'll go into fire circle eventually again). Be careful to leave at least 1 ad up though because once the last one dies, all 4 of the will respawn. Again, single target attacks are your friend, you don't want to accidentally kill that last ad before boss dies

3) if you have high enough dps, you can kill 2-3 ads before the fight actually starts. Run in, CC and kill before CC runs out. As a sorc I do that with Negate and I can generally kill 3 ads before the CC expires and then just easily single target boss with 1 ad up. Sorc master race

He is a really fun boss and he's absolutely not unbeatable. He just has mechs.

So do dragons. There isn't ONE attack that isn't clearly telelgraphed.

Tail swing can be seen coming as the dragon's tail starts moving in a wide arc. Dodging is bit tricky but blocking it is pretty easy and the damage isn't all that high.

Wing swing can be seen coming with, well, swinging wing (also if he did wing 1, he will do wing 2 in like 5 seconds probably) but has a very short block/dodge window, so I personally prefer fighting him either in the front or in the back, not on the side.

Fus Ro Da has, well, a VERY noticeable audio cue and happens in a cone right in front of the dragon. Has red aoe telegraph too. Block or get out. Or don't stand in front to begin with.

The dragon aura thing is a shiny circle right around the dragon that you're not supposed to stand in. For storm dragons, there're also moving huge lightning circles that you're also not supposed to stand in. Very noticeable.

Dragon CHOMP is a bite attack that will one-shot (and it's one of the few attacks that actually one shot there, and I say that as someone running 7/7 light armor and 23k health) most people. It's strictly single target so you'll only get it when dragon is focused on you (which isn't that often, usually there're tanks around, especially at events like this). But if he is focused on you, watch for the tell - he gets heavy attack lines around his head a second before it happens. That's when you dodge. You can't block it unless you're a tank, you need to dodge.

The DoT that puts shiny pink/yellow on multiple random people, in addition to pink/yellow glow, comes with a set dragon scream which I unfortunately can't recall right now. Something like Vah Zoh? This one can be tricky, but you are supposed to slot self heals when soloing, aren't you? It's also cleanseable. If you're a sorc, simply running Surge will keep you up. If you're a templar, you can just easily insta-cleanse it. If you're someone else and you still struggle, slot Purge and just cleanse it off. In events like this, there's probably some templar around dropping Purifying Circle anyway, watch for that Purify synergy.

Dragon breath, depending on the dragon, can be tricky. Brown 'normal' dragon just does side to side breath which you can dodge (and, again, easily see coming), others breath straight at you which is slightly harder. If you're a dps and get focused by it, you can sidestep it by being extremely close to the dragon and just making a step to the side (you can't dodge as it will follow you). But it's very tricky and chances are you'll die if you get focused by that as a non-tank. One and only attack that's actually hard to avoid and deadly - but again, usually someone tanks the dragon and eats that for you.

The dragon landing after a flight always does some damage to people in close range of the landing spot, which makes sense and should be expected by now.

Dragon flying away might result with dragon doing a breath of death over the middle of the fight area - stop standing in the middle once dragon flies away. Pretty hard to miss that.

One of dragon screams causes AoEs to appear on the dragon. Don't stand in red. If you struggle with seeing red, make your red hot pink.

Ice dragon causes a snowstorm around the fight area - that huge white swirly thing on the border (again, pretty hard to miss). It does huge damage, you can ride or run through it quickly if you need but you can't stand in it.

There're probably a few more I missed here, but this should be good enough. Dragons are an amazingly well done fight with an abundance of well-telegraphed mechanics, it's awesome. If you died to a dragon attack you didn't see coming, then either you didn't notice its telegraph, or you lagged out (which is pretty possible right now with insane amounts of people there). I haven't died once on a dragon since the event started

Darena_Bryant

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

The instant kill abilities are all pretty well telegraphed. The DoT that deals hella damage unless you purge it is kinda rough, but otherwise I feel like dragons scale well with more players involved thanks to the 1-shots.

And yeah, the Northern Elsweyr ones are pretty slow during the event, but outside of it they're not as bad due to lower traffic.

Perhaps they are to you, but I died earlier tonight 2 seconds after I arrived at a dragon. No ground effects or frost in the air, just instant death.

Was it a white dragon? If you're running to fight one of these, listen for something that sounds like "FO HISTROOD!" This is them putting up a frost whirlwind barrier around them that does NOT rez well with tons of players running around. It does a lot of damage very quickly, and if you're charging it, it doesn't even appear; you just die to it in seconds.

But I get how you feel, honestly. I was waiting for a dragon to land near me and one finally did. It showed the cone for a "FUS RO DAH!" and it was pointing away from me, and did not reach where I was standing. Got killed anyway for being sorta in front of it. :P