Am I the only one not enjoying DLC "challenging" content?

Athan1

Am I the only one that thinks that several instances of dlc content is too difficult? Talking about vet dlc dungeons, vet dlc trials, dlc world bosses, and dlc dolmen like harrowstorms or dragons. What exactly is the fun in the level of challenge provided? I seriously don't understand where the fun is when the entire field is filled with ground aoes that one shot you and bosses spam cc. Is that "challenging"? Just lose control of your character and get one shot at every corner? "git gud" responses welcome, but I genuinely think that base content is more fun, e.g. vet dungeons and world boss events.

Btw, I'm not arguing that there shouldn't be difficult content for the ones who enjoy it. I'm just expressing my opinion that if it takes 2-3h to clear a vet dlc dungeon it feels like a waste of time.

whitecrow

I'm not that interested in vet dungeons or trials myself. I'll do the dungeons if friends ask but I've only completed the two "easier" trials (Aetherian Archive and Hel Ra Citadel). No interest in the others (tried a couple). It's just not what I find fun.

I think the dragons are fun. The storms were frustrating at first but now I've got the hang of them. You just have to keep your eye on any shrikes.

Fennwitty

The difficulty scaling is this game's weakest point. This is how they look to a newer player:

Overland: Trivial
Normal Base Game Dungeons: Initially a bit to learn, but fun and easy.
Vet Base Game Dungeons: Fun, learn new mechanics.
Normal DLC Dungeons: Not sure what was going on, some very weird stuff. But interesting.
Vet DLC Dungeons: You're Dead. You're Dead. You're Dead. You're Dead.

kargen27

I'm in a guild that has a group trying to finish vet Cloudrest. We have been doing a run once a week for at least three months now. When we started we couldn't get past the first boss. Now the closest we have been is final boss at 13%. We have fun every time we give it a try. Eventually we will get it and that will lead to much rejoicing and celebration.

I think the range of difficulty is fine.

Ratzkifal

The reason is oneshots. Oneshots aren't all that fun because they are honestly overused. Made a mistake? Well too bad, you are dead and if your group mates DARE to try and revive you, they will be oneshot immediately because there is never any time to recover from a setback. It just piles on and on.

Now oneshots do have their place in the game. The fight against Zaan would not be as much fun if the poison could just be ignored or healed through.
But if we look at Molag Kena for example, if WGT released today, during the immortality phase the game of dodge the waves of lightning would definitely be a oneshot mechanic. Instead what's going on right now is you get constantly zapped, but it doesn't do much unless you stepped into a lot of the lightning waves before, thus punishing you for messing up without outright killing you. And if you try to make dodging easier by going too close to the edge, you run the risk of getting knocked off and die outright. More DLC bosses should work like that instead of just bombarding you with oneshots unless you do X.

Andyhunter21

Nobody is forcing you to do that. You have a normal option for the trials. Also DLC WB should be harder than base game WB. [snip]

[Edited for Baiting]

Andyhunter21

Fennwitty wrote: »

The difficulty scaling is this game's weakest point. This is how they look to a newer player:

Overland: Trivial
Normal Base Game Dungeons: Initially a bit to learn, but fun and easy.
Vet Base Game Dungeons: Fun, learn new mechanics.
Normal DLC Dungeons: Not sure what was going on, some very weird stuff. But interesting.
Vet DLC Dungeons: You're Dead. You're Dead. You're Dead. You're Dead.

Vet DLC dungeons are very doable with a decent team. Its just hard to get a random group with nobody talking to each other. You HAVE to do the mechanics.

Fennwitty

I know, but there's a big jump there.

ThorianB

DLC difficulty formula = Easy content( overland/story) to the left of me, Very hard content( normal zone dungeons) to the right, here i am stuck in the middle with you.

There is no scaling between cakewalk and high difficulty in DLCs. In order to have any sort of difficulty progression you have to do base game dungeons and then work your way down the dungeon list according to release date. Even then you reach a point where it becomes ridiculous so even this route is not good for scaling in difficulty as there is a big leap in difficulty about a year or two ago i think it was.

The difficulty scaling makes it really hard for progression for most people who game. To many cliffs to climb and the environment is rather toxic which discourages people from trying.

BazOfWar

One shot mechanics should not exist at all, playing an online game where lag or delay is inevitable and getting one shot is unacceptable especially when you could be potentially over and hour into an activity.

Grandchamp1989

Vet DLC Dungeons and trials are the hardest content in the entire game... It's meant to be hard.

Dragon, Harrowstorms and World Bosses are meant to be taken down by large numbers of people in the overland as a group effort.

Red_Feather

Anyone play division, because that has a real interesting way of doing it. You can activate 'directives' which are special modifiers. There are helpful directives, which can act like a blessing. There are hampering directions, think of it like a curse.

If you feel things are too easy, or too hard, then switch on directives.

And division ALSO uses this framework to create special events throughout the year that just add a special directive you can use or not during a week. It's done for fun to keep things fresh. It worked well in D1, so they added it later to D2!

Little video to watch that talks about it. It is such an interesting system.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRgMI0YoLzo&t=24s

As far as ESO's lore goes this can all be done under Sheogorath's shenanigans. 🤪

Milli_Rabbit

Athan1 wrote: »

Am I the only one that thinks that several instances of dlc content is too difficult? Talking about vet dlc dungeons, vet dlc trials, dlc world bosses, and dlc dolmen like harrowstorms or dragons. What exactly is the fun in the level of challenge provided? I seriously don't understand where the fun is when the entire field is filled with ground aoes that one shot you and bosses spam cc. Is that "challenging"? Just lose control of your character and get one shot at every corner? "git gud" responses welcome, but I genuinely think that base content is more fun, e.g. vet dungeons and world boss events.

Btw, I'm not arguing that there shouldn't be difficult content for the ones who enjoy it. I'm just expressing my opinion that if it takes 2-3h to clear a vet dlc dungeon it feels like a waste of time.

If it takes 2-3h to clear a vet dlc dungeon, you need a better group. Whether the problem is you, other members of your group, or all of you, vet dlc dungeons and trials can be completed relatively quickly. Dungeons generally in 30 minutes. Trials generally within an hour maybe two if the group is unfamiliar with it.

So, why are the difficult? Sometimes it is tanks not knowing what to taunt or mitigate to help the group. Sometimes its a healer who doesnt provide buffs, synergies or heals. Most often, it is DDs who just don't do enough damage. They want to use the same damage numbers from overland in all content. 10k dps is not enough. 20k is barely scrapping by in most content. 30k is more comfortable. 40k is wrecking dungeons. 50k is showing off.

For trials, dps should be even higher in dlc trials. You should be hitting closer to 35k to scrape by. 50k for a solid clear. 70k for easier time with Hard Modes. Anything more is for increased comfort and score pushing. By 70k, I mean your actual dps, not on a dummy.

colossalvoids

That's probably the only repeatable content I enjoy personally. Most people struggle because have no idea what to do and games does poor job explaining it to everyone it seems, some can't read telegraphs or follow mechanics but it's a matter of practice if you're somewhat interested in it.

MikeSkyrim333

Fennwitty wrote: »

The difficulty scaling is this game's weakest point. This is how they look to a newer player:

Overland: Trivial
Normal Base Game Dungeons: Initially a bit to learn, but fun and easy.
Vet Base Game Dungeons: Fun, learn new mechanics.
Normal DLC Dungeons: Not sure what was going on, some very weird stuff. But interesting.
Vet DLC Dungeons: You're Dead. You're Dead. You're Dead. You're Dead.

Vet DLC Dungeons HM: Don't even think about it

Brrrofski

With a proper group (people you know) DLC dungeons are hard for the first time, then they're pretty easy. It's just about learning mechanics. Saying that, the latest two, cauldron and whatever the other was we did in about 90 mins for both on a blind run.

The titles/skins/etc from hardmode, speed rubs and no deaths etc are always fun things to go for though and some of those are a challenge for quite a while.

Harrowstroms also aren't hard - they're pretty easy to solo if you keep your cool and don't panic.

Dragons are the best dlc overland content they've made. I'm sure people have soloed one but the best I've done is as a duo. But it took so long it was kinda pointless beyond us saying "let's see if we can". I wish there was more content that felt like people were coming together to get it done.

cave_troll

90% in this game is way too easy.

Overland is a joke. How do you even die there?
If not for the story, it would be horribly boring.

Vet content is the only challenge in this game. But even that isn't too hard. If you fallow some meta builds, practice your rotation, know mechanics then even vet dlc dungeons become a joke. I burn the bosses there so fast that they barely do any mechanics.
I wouldn't play this game anymore without vet content and hardmodes. It's exciting to get better and see your progress.

The only reason players don't like it is because they don't want to commit to learning and practicing. Plus the gear grind, to get vet ready. As a player with 3 accounts on different platforms, I manage to get geared and above cp 160 in roughly 3 days, could be faster but I take my time.

Knowledge is power whether in real life or a game, which means you don't need to be that good to clear even the hardest content but it's not all depending on you. If you notice that your team-mates don't know what they are doing, better leave and save your time.
A dlc dungeon takes me 30-40 minutes average, maybe less if dmg is good.

AbysmalGhul

Athan1 wrote: »

Am I the only one that thinks that several instances of dlc content is too difficult? Talking about vet dlc dungeons, vet dlc trials, dlc world bosses, and dlc dolmen like harrowstorms or dragons. What exactly is the fun in the level of challenge provided? I seriously don't understand where the fun is when the entire field is filled with ground aoes that one shot you and bosses spam cc. Is that "challenging"? Just lose control of your character and get one shot at every corner? "git gud" responses welcome, but I genuinely think that base content is more fun, e.g. vet dungeons and world boss events.

Btw, I'm not arguing that there shouldn't be difficult content for the ones who enjoy it. I'm just expressing my opinion that if it takes 2-3h to clear a vet dlc dungeon it feels like a waste of time.

I enjoy harder DLC content just like some people enjoy PVP, trading, housing etc etc. It's all about preference and I feel ESO gives the player base interesting aspects to gravitate towards. I personally love the challenge and working together as a team with friends.

Dropstitch

I think most of the problem is the design. Personally I dislike learning things by rote. I dislike the repetitive mechanical metronome nature of rotations, and I certainly dislike having to learn the various phases of a boss fight and react to them like a robot, before resuming my interminable sequence of button pressing.

For this reason alone I am unlikely to do the harder DLC content.

Iccotak

While I do think Overland is often too easy - I will say that there are some DLC dungeons that are too hard at a certain point.

Going from Challenging -> to Punishing. Good video on this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ea6UuRTjkKs

Viyvos

I strongly disagree with you there.

1. World bosses are not called "world bosses" for nothing. You should need at least 4-12 people to clear one since its a major event in the zone. I do however agree that the rewards for killing one is very disapointing.

2. Vet DLC dungeons are ment to be hard. If you need loot just play the normal version of it. But why would I buy the new Dungeon DLC pack if i can just rush through it with 4 DDs? I can do that in Fungal Grotto I just fine. Most people want a challenge and show of skins/titles/achievements they get by being good at the game. It's no use showcasing your EoF title if its easy to get.

But thats just my personal preference, I can understand that you would rather play this content more relaxed. I just really like a bit of a challenge and skill lock of content since otherwise there wouldnt be any reason to do it.

zvavi

Athan1 wrote: »

Am I the only one that thinks that several instances of dlc content is too difficult? Talking about vet dlc dungeons, vet dlc trials, dlc world bosses, and dlc dolmen like harrowstorms or dragons. What exactly is the fun in the level of challenge provided? I seriously don't understand where the fun is when the entire field is filled with ground aoes that one shot you and bosses spam cc. Is that "challenging"? Just lose control of your character and get one shot at every corner? "git gud" responses welcome, but I genuinely think that base content is more fun, e.g. vet dungeons and world boss events.

Btw, I'm not arguing that there shouldn't be difficult content for the ones who enjoy it. I'm just expressing my opinion that if it takes 2-3h to clear a vet dlc dungeon it feels like a waste of time.

I am on the other side of the scale, I enjoy more difficult content. It actually makes those bosses feel like they have a personality, it makes them memorable. Instead of the usual overland of "you used 2 spammables, have a trophy", I barely remember anything I went through there.

zvavi

Iccotak wrote: »

While I do think Overland is often too easy - I will say that there are some DLC dungeons that are too hard at a certain point.

Going from Challenging -> to Punishing. Good video on this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ea6UuRTjkKs

This is a really good video, and it highlights the problems with ESO.
Problem n1: it doesn't provide us with the tools well enough (no proper in-game tutorials). It creates people that don't yet have the those tools, trying to go through content that requires them.
Problem n2: lags and bugs. Lags and bugs are inconsistent. Inconsistency = not fun.
Problem n3: big and non telegraphed difficulty spike.

Dropstitch

The difficulty spike is a major issue. You can quickly level to CP160 (or a lot higher) in overground content that literally only requires you to spam one or two abilities. Then you are expected to go farming gear in vet dungeons/ trials.

Hallothiel

The change in difficulty between a normal dlc dungeon/trial and veteran is, frankly, ridiculous.

There should be an interim version with all the vet mechanics that can be used to learn them before doing the vet one.

And totally agree about the laziness of badly telegraphed one shots. I appreciate its a fight between the devs & players to stop people just burning through the mechs but can’t they be more inventive?!

Tra_Lalan

Because of posts such as this, where players find some instances in the game too difficult or too challenging, ZOS already lowered the difficulty of most of the content makeing it too easy, boring and for that reason unplayable.
Please dont nerf anything more of the content!
I really wish the overland was challenging at any point and allow me to enjoy it. I wish I could feel anything when enetering a delve or some quest boss instance, any chill, any adrenalin, anything that would allow me to have emotional bound to the story its dangers and obstacles, but no, its all just a joke. Tried running with new low lever char - its the same.

Vet DLCs/trials, should stay as they are, its the other content that should have more diversified difficulty.

Iccotak

zvavi wrote: »

Athan1 wrote: »

Am I the only one that thinks that several instances of dlc content is too difficult? Talking about vet dlc dungeons, vet dlc trials, dlc world bosses, and dlc dolmen like harrowstorms or dragons. What exactly is the fun in the level of challenge provided? I seriously don't understand where the fun is when the entire field is filled with ground aoes that one shot you and bosses spam cc. Is that "challenging"? Just lose control of your character and get one shot at every corner? "git gud" responses welcome, but I genuinely think that base content is more fun, e.g. vet dungeons and world boss events.

Btw, I'm not arguing that there shouldn't be difficult content for the ones who enjoy it. I'm just expressing my opinion that if it takes 2-3h to clear a vet dlc dungeon it feels like a waste of time.

I am on the other side of the scale, I enjoy more difficult content. It actually makes those bosses feel like they have a personality, it makes them memorable. Instead of the usual overland of "you used 2 spammables, have a trophy", I barely remember anything I went through there.

Story Bosses are only memorable for being such a let down after all the hype and build up.

---

Hallothiel wrote: »

The change in difficulty between a normal dlc dungeon/trial and veteran is, frankly, ridiculous.

There should be an interim version with all the vet mechanics that can be used to learn them before doing the vet one.

And totally agree about the laziness of badly telegraphed one shots. I appreciate its a fight between the devs & players to stop people just burning through the mechs but can’t they be more inventive?!

Well also keep in mind that Base game dungeons are for a maximum of level 48-49 characters.

DLC dungeons are for Characters with higher CP. "Veterans" - you are supposed to play the easier versions, get better gear, and to get a feel of what the content involves before doing it on a higher difficulty.

So the issue I see is that players are not progressing though base game dungeons before trying out DLC dungeons - but rather level up ONLY through questing, not acquiring the skills for doing dungeons, and hopping right into harder content way out of their range of Skill.

The game does a poor job of getting players acclimated to dungeons.

Ergele

Athan1 wrote: »

Am I the only one that thinks that several instances of dlc content is too difficult? Talking about vet dlc dungeons, vet dlc trials, dlc world bosses, and dlc dolmen like harrowstorms or dragons. What exactly is the fun in the level of challenge provided? I seriously don't understand where the fun is when the entire field is filled with ground aoes that one shot you and bosses spam cc. Is that "challenging"? Just lose control of your character and get one shot at every corner? "git gud" responses welcome, but I genuinely think that base content is more fun, e.g. vet dungeons and world boss events.

Btw, I'm not arguing that there shouldn't be difficult content for the ones who enjoy it. I'm just expressing my opinion that if it takes 2-3h to clear a vet dlc dungeon it feels like a waste of time.

Gotta admit dlc world events rely heavily on one-shot mechanics.

As for vet dungeons: they are there for the hardcore endgame playerbase. The skill gap between endgame players and the casual playerbase is quite high so it's hard to find the middle ground.

EF321

While I like challenging content, I would also like a pack of simple and quick dlc dungeons. Think DS1, CoH1, EH1, like this. I have the same problem with new delves for example - they are the size of vanilla public dungeons. I liked simple vanilla delves.


Besides, I'd like to see other challenges than "boss becomes invulnerable every now and the and oneshots you unless you do this specific dance". Are there no other ways to make content challenging?

alanmatillab16_ESO

Athan1 wrote: »

Am I the only one that thinks that several instances of dlc content is too difficult? Talking about vet dlc dungeons, vet dlc trials, dlc world bosses, and dlc dolmen like harrowstorms or dragons. What exactly is the fun in the level of challenge provided? I seriously don't understand where the fun is when the entire field is filled with ground aoes that one shot you and bosses spam cc. Is that "challenging"? Just lose control of your character and get one shot at every corner? "git gud" responses welcome, but I genuinely think that base content is more fun, e.g. vet dungeons and world boss events.

Btw, I'm not arguing that there shouldn't be difficult content for the ones who enjoy it. I'm just expressing my opinion that if it takes 2-3h to clear a vet dlc dungeon it feels like a waste of time.

There is precious little difficult content in the game as it is. Whenever someone mentions overland content being too easy there is always someone saying "do vet content then" and yet here is someone complaining that content is too difficult...

Don't do the difficult content then, there is plenty of content that isn't as hard for you.

Dagre2

i enjoy harder content, i play with someone that would never be able to do any of the harder content. so i see both sides of this. the difficulty of the base game is very misleading to players that end up investing into the game, because of the base game.