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Something has to be done about daily random grouping and people not willing to work with the team

  • AlnilamE
    AlnilamE
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    I, too, would like to get paid to mow the neighbour's lawn without actually having to mow the lawn...
    mobicera wrote: »
    Something was done.
    We were given 10 transmute crystals at the end of a random normal, putting it ahead of pvp for crystal farming.
    Which creates an incentive to rush that anyone can easily see, yes even zos...
    The dev's are telling me to zoom zoom zoom, lol.

    So you're saying they should remove the transmutes from the random reward? Or make it so that the random is only once per day per account rather than character?

    The Moot Councillor
  • NordSwordnBoard
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    AlnilamE wrote: »
    I, too, would like to get paid to mow the neighbour's lawn without actually having to mow the lawn...
    mobicera wrote: »
    Something was done.
    We were given 10 transmute crystals at the end of a random normal, putting it ahead of pvp for crystal farming.
    Which creates an incentive to rush that anyone can easily see, yes even zos...
    The dev's are telling me to zoom zoom zoom, lol.

    So you're saying they should remove the transmutes from the random reward? Or make it so that the random is only once per day per account rather than character?

    Or maybe make Vet give 15/20 crystals, and Normal stay at 10. Reward players based on the difficulty, and people who can fly through a normal will fly through the Vet instead for a more applicable reward to their ability.

    Fear is the Mindkiller
  • Oreyn_Bearclaw
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    Malkiv wrote: »
    Nothing stops you from soloing a dungeon. The rewards are there to encourage people to play together. If you don’t want to do that, well, solo away but don’t expect an extra reward.

    This is the largest fallacy that is projected when it comes to the GF tool. The reward is not to encourage people to play together. Playing together is already the point of group content. The reward is to encourage people to queue randomly to fill partials, fill as a replacement, or put together a group of other solo queue'rs. The system its self is designed to help players find groups; they already know they're playing with other people.

    @Malkiv
    You are just arguing semantics. It comes to the exact same thing. Either way, a solo queue doesn't fill groups and by the same token, doesn't encourage people to play together. You can't do one without the other. So however you classify their intentions of the GF reward system, it makes no sense for there to be an extra reward from a solo queue.

    If someone wants to solo a dungeon, knock yourself out, but don't expect an extra reward from using the groupfinder.
    Edited by Oreyn_Bearclaw on 17 May 2021 17:04
  • ForeverJenn
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    If you miss the riveting story of Fungal Grotto 1, don't worry, you'll be back.
  • FlopsyPrince
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    How about giving the quest rewards for the tasks along the way if someone speed runs well ahead of you?

    I only do the dungeon quests for the skill points. Yeah, the story can be nice, but I see it across enough alts that it is not a big issue.

    Also, let me rez even if the group is in a boss fight if I am well out of the fight. I really got hosed the last dungeon run event because the speed runners were so fast and I was sitting dead along the way to a mass of mobs they ignored.

    Or automatically give me credit for the kill of a boss mob if I was in the dungeon when it was killed. Then I could proceed through the dungeon even if the speed runners were too fast. Might want a way to mark "stay in the dungeon alone" if everyone else leaves. That way I could quest while they could speed run.

    Sure I miss the fights, but I wouldn't have done much in those case most likely anyway.
    PC
    PS4/PS5
  • Sinthrax
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    When the game came out people complained it was to hard. They made it easy so...here we are. The reason those players do that is because you can one button press a normal dungeon with your eyes tied behind your back. If it was made with ANY type of difficulty what so ever this wouldn't happen.
  • ForeverJenn
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    Sinthrax wrote: »
    When the game came out people complained it was to hard. They made it easy so...here we are. The reason those players do that is because you can one button press a normal dungeon with your eyes tied behind your back. If it was made with ANY type of difficulty what so ever this wouldn't happen.


    You know what this means...


    Hello, Fungal Grotto III! 😆
  • ehgz
    ehgz
    Soul Shriven
    I'm new to the game and just started doing dungeons.

    Yes, in each run the group dashed through the content and I barely saw anything.

    But I expected that since most games are the same.
  • Goregrinder
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    What’s the normal way? Taking an hour for a fifteen minute dungeon?

    Apparently lol.
  • RodneyRegis
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    Something has to be done about people who want to kill every single ad one by one, and want the tank to run in 5 seconds before everyone else while I wait for him to chain in the ads which I kill with a single LA, and then expect everyone to stand in proper formation even when the boss will be burnt in 30 seconds, taking 60 mins for a dungeon which could take 10.

    See the similarity?
  • AlnilamE
    AlnilamE
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    Something has to be done about people who want to kill every single ad one by one, and want the tank to run in 5 seconds before everyone else while I wait for him to chain in the ads which I kill with a single LA, and then expect everyone to stand in proper formation even when the boss will be burnt in 30 seconds, taking 60 mins for a dungeon which could take 10.

    See the similarity?

    If you stream a group taking 60 minutes for nDC2, I'll watch.
    The Moot Councillor
  • kargen27
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    I've been suggesting two ideas about random queues for a while now.

    First let players toggle whether they want a typical group (1 heal 1 tank 2 DPS) or an anything goes group. The group finding tool would then try and fill the typical groups first. If there is no tank in the queue then a typical group can't be filled. The finder then takes the first four players in queue that have opted for any group will do. They may end up with four DPS, two dps two healers or whatever. Soon as a tank is in the queue the group finder again fills a typical group.

    2nd no reward if the dungeon isn't finished. That means all bosses and all mobs have to die. You skip those two skeevers over by the upturned canoe in Wayrest Sewers and you don't get the daily reward. This could still rush players trying to do the quest but maybe players would be more willing to wait if they knew the entire dungeon needs to be cleared anyway.
    and then the parrot said, "must be the water mines green too."
  • AlnilamE
    AlnilamE
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    kargen27 wrote: »
    I've been suggesting two ideas about random queues for a while now.



    2nd no reward if the dungeon isn't finished. That means all bosses and all mobs have to die. You skip those two skeevers over by the upturned canoe in Wayrest Sewers and you don't get the daily reward. This could still rush players trying to do the quest but maybe players would be more willing to wait if they knew the entire dungeon needs to be cleared anyway.

    And then a mob gets stuck in a wall and can't be killed.

    I understand the feeling, but this would be impractical.
    The Moot Councillor
  • jle30303
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    Or the players pass a point of no return having left some monsters behind in a side chamber. (for instance jumping down to kill Varaine Pellingare without ever going into the side chamber with the Rat Whisperer, who is an entirely avoidable side boss - although with competent DDs he doesn't take too long since he's only tier 2, not tier 3.)
  • kargen27
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    jle30303 wrote: »
    Or the players pass a point of no return having left some monsters behind in a side chamber. (for instance jumping down to kill Varaine Pellingare without ever going into the side chamber with the Rat Whisperer, who is an entirely avoidable side boss - although with competent DDs he doesn't take too long since he's only tier 2, not tier 3.)

    Live and learn on that one. Don't get your reward a couple of times and you will remember that side boss.

    and then the parrot said, "must be the water mines green too."
  • Gilvoth
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    Pelirockjo wrote: »
    I swear I've seen this samr topic just a few days ago. And as it's been said several times, random group finder ia random. You get what you get, and if that's not ok with you, you can always ask guildies or in zone for like minded players.

    this ^
  • ForeverJenn
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    AlnilamE wrote: »
    kargen27 wrote: »
    I've been suggesting two ideas about random queues for a while now.



    2nd no reward if the dungeon isn't finished. That means all bosses and all mobs have to die. You skip those two skeevers over by the upturned canoe in Wayrest Sewers and you don't get the daily reward. This could still rush players trying to do the quest but maybe players would be more willing to wait if they knew the entire dungeon needs to be cleared anyway.

    And then a mob gets stuck in a wall and can't be killed.

    I understand the feeling, but this would be impractical.

    Right? WS 1 and 2 already punish you by not letting you open the door cause a mob is stuck in the canal and half the time the NPC in WS2 doesn't show up in the first room cause you burned the mobs too fast.
    Edited by ForeverJenn on 18 May 2021 00:38
  • Auztinito
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    Here’s the problem with ESO. It’s extremely solo friendly in over-world content except for public dungeons, world bosses, and world events. However, when it comes to playing co-op with others. The game community decides to rear its ugly face most of the time.

    What do I mean?

    Well. This game from the jump is and was designed to be less cooperative and more competitive. However, a good amount of players hate competitive atmospheres because of toxicity is generated through them easily and flows freely without moderation or rules.

    “How? I’m not toxic!”

    ESO has a PvE experience built on the idea of co-operating with others but they shoot themselves in the foot with design decisions like the following:

    Time Trials on PvE content

    Leaderboards in PvE content

    These two features alone tell players that the best rewards are behind these two things. The Endgame is wrapped around it. This is a problem because, let’s say someone just wants to complete the dungeon for the story. Well, now they’re forced into this speed-running/meta gaming community that gets blatantly toxic if someone doesn’t achieve X dps or doesn’t use Y skill. This is a problem all caused by lack of moderation and the two features I mentioned above.

    Leaderboards are competitive by nature.

    Speed Running being tied to it makes it competitive.

    Competitive Games have a ton of toxicity from communities. Which is why you started seeing games like R6 and Overwatch begin moderating.

    It’s why FFXIV doesn’t show you other player dps numbers or allow parsers. It’s why they don’t reward you on time completions.

    It’s because given the chance game communities will be toxic, harass, berate, and more to others when given that kind of information.
    Edited by Auztinito on 18 May 2021 02:40
  • PigofSteel
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    I dont want to sit in normal dungeons for 1 hour and go trough somebodys quest log... Im not a companion and this is mmo and its not single player game... Im sorry but if they put rewards away im afraid new people will have trouble getting all things done and also in few months you will be running trough to get crystals just like everybody else... I think its good as it is now sooner or later you will fall down in same hole and grind like everbody else.
  • JTD
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    Auztinito wrote: »
    It’s why FFXIV doesn’t show you other player dps numbers or allow parsers. It’s why they don’t reward you on time completions.

    Pretty sure everybody in my Savage/endgame team is running ACT to watch their own and group dps/heal/agro. I might not be official but Square doesn't ban you for using this except when you're talking about it. Its similar to CMX in ESO... looking at your up times, rotation and on/of-gcd usage. It came really handy improving my DRG and SMN gameplay. #floortanklife

    FF endgame can be as toxic as any other game. The hardest content is difficult and requires perfect execution. Just like in ESO.

    A more on-topic I agree with you. Time trials and leaderbords are competitive by nature and this game would be better without them even though I enjoy trifecta achievements. A possible (in between) solution would be to make dungeon finder block the ability to get achievements.

    I guess WoW should have told people that a LFG tool was a bad idea..... + why is there not a Raider.io for eso?



    Edited by JTD on 18 May 2021 04:11
  • Amottica
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    Pelirockjo wrote: »
    I swear I've seen this samr topic just a few days ago. And as it's been said several times, random group finder ia random. You get what you get, and if that's not ok with you, you can always ask guildies or in zone for like minded players.

    In light of the changed title, I do have to agree with this. It has been my experience in every MMORPG I have played that the type and style of the player carried when using the GF. That is much of the reason I prefer to run with guild mates and am glad I found a good guild here in ESO.
  • Zenzuki
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    Instead of trying to split up the queue's or some other such nonsense, they could add something like a GTA race timer.

    A speed runner in the group just decides to blast to the end... no worries, go on.

    Once the final boss is downed, a timer starts (of some specific amount, possibly a minute or two, or ZOS could decide based on the average run time they see in their stats for each dungeon, etc.).

    The runner gets no drop until either the timer lapses or the whole group (or remaining group) gets to end boss location.

    They're still encouraged to run the dungeons for the rewards, but the speed running is less encouraged.

    Does it mean a person intent on running will decide to stroll along with the team and work together, possibly not. They could simply use that time to take a bio, check email or freshen a drink, etc. But the rushing through won't net them the rewards any quicker then just staying with the group, so why not stay and help the whole group get through a bit faster as a team.

    And the timer should be sufficient enough (if set right by ZOS) that it would allow for the story folks to at least finish it and get their skill point and have seen the story. But they too would be encouraged to mosey along, once they see the timer start, if they want any other rewards that is.

    Now if a person simply wants to take as much time as they want and poke into every corner of the dungeon and role play smelling every rose and mushroom in the place... well this ain't gonna help with that as you'd time out and the runner would be gone once the reward dropped.

    Solo, chat or guilds would be best option for those folks.

    Just an idea, so don't drag me. I solo these things anyway and rarely queue rando's, so really don't have a dog in the hunt.
    Just see the topic a lot and throwing in my .02. :wink:
    Can Open...
    Worms EVERYWHERE!
  • Auztinito
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    JTD wrote: »
    Auztinito wrote: »
    It’s why FFXIV doesn’t show you other player dps numbers or allow parsers. It’s why they don’t reward you on time completions.

    Pretty sure everybody in my Savage/endgame team is running ACT to watch their own and group dps/heal/agro. I might not be official but Square doesn't ban you for using this except when you're talking about it. Its similar to CMX in ESO... looking at your up times, rotation and on/of-gcd usage. It came really handy improving my DRG and SMN gameplay. #floortanklife

    FF endgame can be as toxic as any other game. The hardest content is difficult and requires perfect execution. Just like in ESO.

    A more on-topic I agree with you. Time trials and leaderbords are competitive by nature and this game would be better without them even though I enjoy trifecta achievements. A possible (in between) solution would be to make dungeon finder block the ability to get achievements.

    I guess WoW should have told people that a LFG tool was a bad idea..... + why is there not a Raider.io for eso?



    From my experience, jobs are not policed in end-game content like builds are on here. FFXIV is also much more mechanic heavy when it comes to its endgame.

    Parsers are not allowed. They are strictly against TOS but they don’t mind them for self-use. However, the moment you try to police or criticize other players with them is the moment they’ll take action against you and give you a suspension or ban.
  • Saieden
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    Give role change a 1 week cooldown per character. Vet daily crystals > normal daily crystals. Problem solved.
  • Uryel
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    Saieden wrote: »
    Give role change a 1 week cooldown per character

    How is that a solution ? It's more of the problem. Change your build, and you're still stuck with a role that you no longer fit in... Sheesh.


    Honestly, group content is a dumpster fire. Idiots rushing ahead and berating you for not following ? Check. Trying to do the quest and being told to "spam through it" (even when it's not possible because you have to wait for the NPC to do something) ? Check. Idiots rushing ahead and getting themselves killed, then blaming it on the healer ? Check... Even had an occurence where said rusher WAS the "healer", and they still blamed the healer. Had to be reminded that's the role they queued with.

    I don't see it so much those days, but there were several times when random group just entered whatever random dungeon we were placed into, then ported to Fungal Grotto and compleined that we didn't follow them. Because it was faster, you know.

    Basically, those days I just duo dungeons with my wife. That's the best solution I could find. Now, there are several possibilities that could be implemented to solve that problem :

    - Vote to kick someone from the group. Problem : it works both ways, and rushers could ban someone just trying to do the quest.
    - Have different modes to queue for : normal and fast. Problem : it only works if people queue honestly, and from the fake tank / fake healer plague, we know they don't.
    - A dungeon banlist, which ensures you never, ever, end up in random with the people on it. Problem : it makes finding a group significantly longer as the list grows , and only prevents future annoyances.

    There might be other options, but from those 3, my favourite is all of them at once. Queue for normal or fast, if someone doesn't play by the rules, kick them, and make sure you never see them again.
  • Marcus_Thracius
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    Group with friends or ppl that want to take their time in a dung , do random only if you are willing to accept the reality that some players will rush it asap ( they all have their reasons , dont judge unless you want to be judged)
  • Ackwalan
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    Group with friends or ppl that want to take their time in a dung , do random only if you are willing to accept the reality that some players will rush it asap ( they all have their reasons , dont judge unless you want to be judged)

    Group with friends or ppl that want to rush it asap, do random only if you are willing to accept the reality that some players will want to take their time in a dung. (they all have their reasons, don't judge unless you want to be judged)

  • Aertew
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    I think a better fix to replace the random daily dungeon with the first dungeon of the day. It fixes people speed running since u could do a DLC dungeon. It also lets people who have all the DLC dungeons pick a regular dungeon.
  • Uryel
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    Aertew wrote: »
    I think a better fix to replace the random daily dungeon with the first dungeon of the day. It fixes people speed running since u could do a DLC dungeon. It also lets people who have all the DLC dungeons pick a regular dungeon.

    That would actually be a pretty nice idea !
  • JTD
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    Auztinito wrote: »
    From my experience, jobs are not policed in end-game content like builds are on here. FFXIV is also much more mechanic heavy when it comes to its endgame.

    Parsers are not allowed. They are strictly against TOS but they don’t mind them for self-use. However, the moment you try to police or criticize other players with them is the moment they’ll take action against you and give you a suspension or ban.

    That is true. Endgame (finished) jobs have 1 path/endbuild (minor stat differences sometimes) and optimal rotations or priorities are fixed. There is less variables in its endgame dps, most are very close when played optimal (ofc exceptions are there).

    In raid/trial setups though there is optimal configs but everything is clear-able with everything. I enjoy the mechanic heavy fights.. there is a lot more to do than just being a parser. Ah well enough offtopic.

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