Sotha Sil's bargaining chip

Exhale

What was Sotha Sil's bargaining chip during the Coldharbour Compact to keep the Daedric Princes from Nirn? Also why only some of them were present and not all of them?

VaranisArano

As far as I know, that's not been revealed. This article has a pretty good list of the sources concerning it: https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Coldharbour_Compact

And in-game, people don't know much. Gabrielle Benele says: “As for the inactivity of the other Princes, Guild Researchers are tracking down rumors of a so-called 'Coldharbour Compact' that may limit their behavior vis-à-vis Nirn. However, we are not yet in possession of the facts regarding this 'Compact,' if it exists." https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/25383

TheImperfect

I'm just speculating and I haven't given it much thought but what if as Sotha Sil has Clockwork City he has made the daedric princes playground worlds where they can mess with the beings for their amusement rather than meddling on Nirn instead.

RaddlemanNumber7

I've never been able to find, or dream up, any satisfactory scenario concerning the Coldharbour Compact that would also account for Sotha SIl's complete absence during the Soul Burst and Molag Bal's attempt to merge Cold Harbour with Nirn.

So, I decided to take the Dev's lead and just ignore it.

Facts can get in the way of a good story. Mysteries, not so much

The_Drop_Bear

RaddlemanNumber7 wrote: »

I've never been able to find, or dream up, any satisfactory scenario concerning the Coldharbour Compact that would also account for Sotha SIl's complete absence during the Soul Burst and Molag Bal's attempt to merge Cold Harbour with Nirn.

So, I decided to take the Dev's lead and just ignore it.

Facts can get in the way of a good story. Mysteries, not so much

The compact stopped the daedra appearing directly on Nirn. Molag didn't he just tried to bring Nirn to coldharbour

Aristocles22

I've heard that Sil threatened to bind the Daedra to Nirn using the Clockwork City's machinery, which would render them mortal and put their energies into nirn itself, like the Aedra did. This could also render them mostly comatose.

Vevvev

Aristocles22 wrote: »

I've heard that Sil threatened to bind the Daedra to Nirn using the Clockwork City's machinery, which would render them mortal and put their energies into nirn itself, like the Aedra did. This could also render them mostly comatose.

That actually sounds really cool, and maybe a bit scary as well! They say only Set knows the City's true purpose and if that is what its purpose is it is a powerful tool.

Xaramasa

Aristocles22 wrote: »

I've heard that Sil threatened to bind the Daedra to Nirn using the Clockwork City's machinery, which would render them mortal and put their energies into nirn itself, like the Aedra did. This could also render them mostly comatose.

I've seen that as well, and there are some references in-game that seem to agree with this. I'm not sure which Clockwork City story quest it was, but Nocturnal says something along the lines of "if you knew what he(Sotha Sil) knew, you'd kill him, too!".

There's also the "Truth in Sequence", which outright spells Seht's plan: the creation of a new Nirn without the existing one's imperfections - The Daedra.

The Daedra fear wisdom and order, you see? And thus do they fear the Clockwork God above all others. Where others see dark crowns numbered ten and six, Sotha Sil sees shadows and nothing more. For the Daedra are the lie that creation tells itself. Like their father, Padomay, they are Nothing. And in the Tamriel Final, Nothing shall hold no sway. Anuvanna'si. Their black mountain called "Oblivion" shall sink into the Furnace of Forgotten Numbers, where all lies burn and brittle multitudes turn to slag.

Of the Tribunes, it really seems that the Daedra took Sotha Sil more seriously than the others. According to the same text (and a certain contraband item), it's because Seht has similar principles to Jyggalag.

Dovakhan

Aristocles22 wrote: »

I've heard that Sil threatened to bind the Daedra to Nirn using the Clockwork City's machinery, which would render them mortal and put their energies into nirn itself, like the Aedra did. This could also render them mostly comatose.

That's extremely cool in fact. Is it confirmed?

RaddlemanNumber7

Here's an idea. What if the threat is Vivec. Princes cannot be destroyed but they can be humiliated. If a Prince breaks the accord Sil asks Vivec to CHIM them over. Vivec might, for example, insert himself into the Prince's back story in a poetic fashion. Maybe that's what was happening with Molag Bal in the 36 Lessons. And then Molag Bal plays up again and he gets himself cut in half by a mortal. How embarrassing is that!

VaranisArano

RaddlemanNumber7 wrote: »

Here's an idea. What if the threat is Vivec. Princes cannot be destroyed but they can be humiliated. If a Prince breaks the accord Sil asks Vivec to CHIM them over. Vivec might, for example, insert himself into the Prince's back story in a poetic fashion. Maybe that's what was happening with Molag Bal in the 36 Lessons. And then Molag Bal plays up again and he gets himself cut in half by a mortal. How embarrassing is that!

This idea opens up the hilarious mental image of Sotha Sil being like "Look, don't ask how I know, but this Vestige guy/gal is gonna be coming along, and you'd better agree to the terms of this pact unless you wanna end up on their bad side."

Nocturnal: "I don't need no stinking Coldharbor Compact. I do what I want."

Sotha Sil:

Aigym_Hlervu

I suppose the Compact could be exactly the thing described in the Tribunal Temple's articles of faith - "By the Apotheosis, the Tribunal (Blessed Be Their Holy Names) became the Protectors and High Ancestor Spirits of the Dunmer, and bade the Daedra to give proper veneration and obedience. The Three Good Daedra, Boethiah, Azura, and Mephala, recognized the Divinity of the Triune Ancestors (Blessed Be Their Holy Names). The Rebel Daedra, Molag Bal, Malacath, Sheogorath, and Mehrunes Dagon, refused to swear fealty to the Tribunal (Blessed Be Their Holy Names), and their worshippers were cast out". As you see it, 7 of the 10 Compact parties are actually the Dunmeri Anticipations and the House of Troubles with only Mora, Hircine and Vile left unmentioned. That could be somehow connected to the Tribunes and the answer might be found there. Maybe it is all about his Clockwork City he began to build on Sun's Dusk 31st 1E 2920 - "In the smoky catacombs beneath the city where Sotha Sil forged the future with his arcane clockwork apparatus, something unforeseen happened".

Regarding the clauses. All we are left to do today is to theorize, indeed. I prefer to build my own opinion based on the knowledge of some facts already portrayed in the games - I think that the price offered the Lords for their personal absense on Nirn could be the permition to have the very influence, personal spheres they have on Nirn today. Well, they could be offered something else too, and what I personally think of the Compact is that it is not hard to imagine what else could be offered to each of the Daedra Lords - it is much harder to imagine how could Sotha Sil manage to perform his part of the deal (if he ever intended to) without theorizing. These are just examples I stopped at:
1. Hermaeus Mora knows everything except.. the Elder Scrolls. I mean, the items. I might be wrong on that, but as far as I remember the Scrolls disappeared from the Imperial Library in 4E 175 and were scattered all over Tamriel. If that is true, that could be the first step towards the next TES game or an ESO DLC portaying his pursuit to get them;
2. Sheogorath could demand Almalexia - he likes to make persons mad instead of masses, but never before could he claim a soul of such a scale as hers in his possession through making such a creature as a living god insane;
3. Hircine could be granted the right to host his Great Hunt and manifest himself in the Mundus once every era - something shown in the Bloodmoon. A fully legit extra hunting ground and I think he did it without breaking the rules, because it could be the very thing he was offered along with lycanthropy ever existing on Nirn;
4. Azura could be offered the Heart of Lorkhan because it seems to be the only thing she has been really bothering about since she buried it in the crater of Red Mountain (read about it here if you have any questions on why it was she in one of the lore lines or find it interesting);
5. Mehrunes Dagon could be promissed Tamriel and power of it's natural disasters.
6. Molag Bal could have asked for souls and an ability to create the undead, vampires and all such creatures on Nirn;
7. Clavicus Vile, if he entered the Compact instead of some other agreement, could be granted the right to harvest souls during the Red Year - something he did when Baar Dau began to fall;
8. Mephala "perceives all of Aurbis as an interconnected system of action and consequence, and employs herself in spinning new threads to influence outcomes" - something very similar to Sotha Sil's perception he told us about, though except that "to influence outcomes" part. He could share.. his knowledge?.. Anyway, I have no good answer to that.
9. Boethiah and Malacath - no idea. Possibly later DLCs and games will show us that. Since the two were connected to each other in their past, I suppose they could ask something directly controversal. But it's just a guess just like the previous 8 points.

Smaxx

For me I think the events from Morrowind and Clockwork City all alluded to Sotha Sil's side of the bargain being not using his knowledge about the transfer of (d)aedric energies. It could be as simple as that.

While the Daedric Princes could most likely just work together to overpower Sil before he's capable of destroying all of them (in a similar way to Nocturnal's incursion; which caught him by surprise), their inherent selfishness prevents them from doing so. None of those Daedric Princes wants to do the first step, the one who's losing all their might and power just for the others to become even more powerful. In their own little ego, the only winning move is not to play.