Severe FPS drop after greymoor chapter release #2

LainUnchained

Sup

Im opening a new thread to discuss a major game performance issue originated by something that was implemented in the greymore update.

Why:
@ZOS_BillE closed the #1 thread (https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/529754/severe-fps-drop-and-stuttering-after-greymoor-chapter-release) because he/she thinks that was already another thread regarding this issue (https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/529545/100-fps-on-a-144hz-monitor-getting-stutters-in-combat)
Those issues arent the same. One is about a major fps drop because of the patch, the other one is about a guy saying the game stutters when casting aoe (but still 100 fps)

Also, thanks to my bud @Elwendryll who gently posted in my name (i didnt expect my forum account to be ready that fast!)

My system / configuration

Hardware specs:

• Cpu: Ryzen 3700x @ 4.0Ghz
• Gpu: Rx 5700 XT 8Gb
• Mem: 16gb @ 3600mhz

Software specs:

• Windows 10 x64 Pro - update 2004 (20h1)
• All .net runtimes updated
• Graphics drivers updated (released 27/05/2020)
• Chipset drivers updated (released 21/05/2020)

Obviously a desktop pc, on AC power and high performance power profile

Things i tried regarding the game:

• Repair the game from the Launcher option.
• Download the whole thing again.
• Tried some diferent configuration in UserSettings, no luck, then deleted UserSettings.txt, no luck neither.
• Tried the game with 800x600 resolution, subsampling low, everything in low... same fps.
• Vertical sync on/off
• With addons enabled... with few addons enabled... with no addons enabled..

Things i tried regarding my system:

• Changed the values from cpu minimum/maximum power state in the system power plan
• Run the game as non-privileged user ... as admin.. even as system
• Changed my monitor refresh rate from 144 to 120, then to 100, then to 60..
• Changed the priority of the eso64.exe process
• Changed the afinity of the eso64.exe process
• Changed the priority of the threads of the eso64.exe process

Well, im sure i tried a bunch of other things... but blah.


So, i was looking at the cpu usage of the game and trying to understand why the fps are dropping like this and i found a strange behavior:

First, my FPS were at 100 when i was looking to this magic tree, seems it buff with major cpu on player


Then, i look down to the corner, trying to get like the less amount of texture drawing on scren... and i get 63fps


Also, i tried if anything changed when looking to the entire map... same, 63fps.


My CPU usage chart for those screens:


Then i went to my house, that is pretty empty, with very few furnishing things and so

Changed the ESO64.exe proccess affinity:
With 1 core, i was not even getting 63, this is expectable as is not enough to maintain the whole process by his own

With 2 cores the game feel ok

No FPS change with all cores active

tauriel01

Yeah, i seem to be having a very similar situation. My FPS is fine until i start trying to kill dragons. It goes from mid-100s to 20...15...10...3. Initially, the latency went from 100...300.... 400....800. As it went up, FPS went down. I did a bunch of tweaks (such as found on alcast), and now latency seems more or less normal. almost 100 to a little over 100. FPS didn't get fixed tho. Still nose dives as soon as a dragon fight starts. After it dies, i move away, FPS starts going back up to normal. This is ALLLL since the patch. Nothing changed from monday night to tues night on my computer. Reading around on the forums and elsewhere, i can't find a fix. other than ZOS saying, submit a trouble ticket. I guess i will , but not super optimistic

LainUnchained

Hello!

I did a futher investigation on this fps problem, and i think i had found the root cause, or, at least, a temporal solution. Hope Devs fix this before my cpu/gpu start to burn.

TL;DR
In your UserSettings.txt change MinFrameTime.2 to 0.00000000.
Be aware that your CPU/GPU will be at full usage.. so maybe you should limit your 'MaxCoresToUse.4' to something like half your CPU's cores (in case u have more than 2, right?)







Explanation (kinda technical):

In my young i did some game engine related development, so something bothers me about the low-fps-but-also-low-cpu-usage.
Yeah, Sleep api is the culprit... well, tbh not Sleep's fault

I did not find the eso64.exe binary previous to greymoore update, but i do find a harrowstorm one.. that will be enough.

The problem is in the code that prevent the game engine to draw fps like there's no tomorrow. Devs implemented a new algoritm to handle the MaxFrames limit but seems it wasnt effective with all the posible OS/Hard combination out there.

The actual (greymoore) sheet of code:


The previous (harrowstorm) sheet of code:


As u can see, despite i dont care about naming nor analyzing the variables in the old .exe, they're pretty different, so its obvious something changed there.

The yellow highlight line... I did some math and i think in most cases that nasty calc line would work if we were in early 2019, like, before Windows 10 1809.

I didnt know this, but before build 1809, the QueryPerformanceFrequency API was returning 3mhz. In build 1809 and after, that same API returns 10mhz... so... maybe for those who are still using W7 or W10 before 1809 build, the new algorithm works as intended... but, with 10mhz precision returned as freq, things start to get very close to the limit.

In my tests, that yellow-highlighted Sleep call was executing with Sleep's intervals from 5 to 8... which is terrible for your FPS.
I think that if cpu_freq were like before (3mhz) most of the time the Sleep(Max(Nasty_Calc, 0)) will go for the 0 path, which be ideal imo.


Cheers

Jolsyf

Here to add my 2 cents, also been having fps problems specially when in combat, using skill cause the fps to stutter like crazy, its really taking the joy out of playing.

ZOS_Bill

As posted in the other open thread about performance issues in ESO, please open a ticket with customer support if these frame rate problems continue.

LainUnchained

Sup,
Yeah.. i already did it... but seems that the one who need support are the developers. This problem is on their side, not ours.

Jolsyf

ZOS_BillE wrote: »

As posted in the other open thread about performance issues in ESO, please open a ticket with customer support if these frame rate problems continue.

I already did 2 days ago and got no reply. Also I tried changing the usersettings but it changed nothing, this only started happening after greymoor

VicenarySolid

ZOS_BillE wrote: »

As posted in the other open thread about performance issues in ESO, please open a ticket with customer support if these frame rate problems continue.

lol is this a joke or what? Stop sending us to a customer support, its not our problem, find solution with ur code and fix this.

igniz93

This is a bug and it's not up to us to make several tickets just to get ignored.

JanTanhide

Lot of tech stuff in this thread. Way over my head. My system is somewhat similar and I have no FPS issues but it may be because I use Quick CPU to unpark all cores and I also use two of Votan's Addon's to manage video settings.

I have an old 1800X with 32 Gig RAM on dual 1080 Ti's. This has been my gaming rig since the 1800X was released a few years back and it runs ESO extremely well. I run at 3440x1440 at a max FPS of 100 on an ultrawide 35 inch Gsync monitor with a max synch of 100 Hz. I run with Gsync on and locked to not exceed 100 FPS. Most of the time it stays close to 100 FPS with no stuttering.

I don't know if Quick CPU set at High Performance with all cores unlocked and these two addons will help you all but I hope so. Take care.

I use Votan's Adaptive (Video-)Settings and Votan's Advanced Settings.

redgreensunset

When several players report the same issue that begins right after a patch but nothing intheir settinghave changed,it's not a suppoer issue it's a bug somewhere in the code that needs fixing.

Parasaurolophus

Any changes after patch?

Alexander_B

No changes. Same FPS drop. Patch notes don't have any info about FPS fix.

Elwendryll

The fps issue seems to be fixed for me.

relentless_turnip

LainUnchained wrote: »

Hello!

I did a futher investigation on this fps problem, and i think i had found the root cause, or, at least, a temporal solution. Hope Devs fix this before my cpu/gpu start to burn.

TL;DR
In your UserSettings.txt change MinFrameTime.2 to 0.00000000.
Be aware that your CPU/GPU will be at full usage.. so maybe you should limit your 'MaxCoresToUse.4' to something like half your CPU's cores (in case u have more than 2, right?)







Explanation (kinda technical):

In my young i did some game engine related development, so something bothers me about the low-fps-but-also-low-cpu-usage.
Yeah, Sleep api is the culprit... well, tbh not Sleep's fault

I did not find the eso64.exe binary previous to greymoore update, but i do find a harrowstorm one.. that will be enough.

The problem is in the code that prevent the game engine to draw fps like there's no tomorrow. Devs implemented a new algoritm to handle the MaxFrames limit but seems it wasnt effective with all the posible OS/Hard combination out there.

The actual (greymoore) sheet of code:


The previous (harrowstorm) sheet of code:


As u can see, despite i dont care about naming nor analyzing the variables in the old .exe, they're pretty different, so its obvious something changed there.

The yellow highlight line... I did some math and i think in most cases that nasty calc line would work if we were in early 2019, like, before Windows 10 1809.

I didnt know this, but before build 1809, the QueryPerformanceFrequency API was returning 3mhz. In build 1809 and after, that same API returns 10mhz... so... maybe for those who are still using W7 or W10 before 1809 build, the new algorithm works as intended... but, with 10mhz precision returned as freq, things start to get very close to the limit.

In my tests, that yellow-highlighted Sleep call was executing with Sleep's intervals from 5 to 8... which is terrible for your FPS.
I think that if cpu_freq were like before (3mhz) most of the time the Sleep(Max(Nasty_Calc, 0)) will go for the 0 path, which be ideal imo.


Cheers

Thanks for this, changing this value seems to have improved it dramatically!
Why they can't give us this advice rather than asking us to check whether we have tried switching it off and on again I'll never know 😂

Ocerlot

LainUnchained wrote: »

Im opening a new thread to discuss a major game performance issue originated by something that was implemented in the greymore update.

[*] Graphics drivers updated (released 27/05/2020)

Let me guess you updated to the NEW Nvidia 446.14 driver on the 27th May? That's the problem right there my friend. I had the same problem after installing the new Nvidia driver on various PC's.

My advice is to try rolling back and uninstalling to a previous Nvidia driver version (Using Display Driver Uninstall). The new NVIDIA driver 446.14 that was updated on 27th May for some gpu's causes stutter and freezes in ESO on various Nvidia graphics cards that I've tested (Not all, but some)

I had to rollback to Nvidia driver 399.01 on various pc's for it to magically stop the unplayable stutter's and freezes. I think a monkey could of done a better job with settings than Nvidia have lol. I guess Covid-19 made Nvidia sloppy in their testing.

Hope it helps,

kellax

JanTanhide wrote: »

Lot of tech stuff in this thread. Way over my head. My system is somewhat similar and I have no FPS issues but it may be because I use Quick CPU to unpark all cores and I also use two of Votan's Addon's to manage video settings.

I have an old 1800X with 32 Gig RAM on dual 1080 Ti's. This has been my gaming rig since the 1800X was released a few years back and it runs ESO extremely well. I run at 3440x1440 at a max FPS of 100 on an ultrawide 35 inch Gsync monitor with a max synch of 100 Hz. I run with Gsync on and locked to not exceed 100 FPS. Most of the time it stays close to 100 FPS with no stuttering.

I don't know if Quick CPU set at High Performance with all cores unlocked and these two addons will help you all but I hope so. Take care.

I use Votan's Adaptive (Video-)Settings and Votan's Advanced Settings.

Got a link for Quick CPU?

Nelson9311

This actually worked for me, thanks!!!

Masty_Spy

Got this "64 fps problem" Right after Win 2004 update.
Also i noticed that game shows me 60+ fps on counter but visually works really bad with microstutters.

MinFrameTime.2 to 0.00000000 worked for me.

LainUnchained

Yeah, i've been using this since Greymoore launch. No doubt its a problem/bug in the algorithm that evaluates when to call the Sleep Api.

AlandroSul

So, I've come back after a year to see if they actually managed to fix performance issues... And now I have this problem. Fps locked at 64 in places where there is nothing happening, and the fps go up when there is more stress for PC. Setting MinFrameTime.2 to 0.00000000 fixes the problem, but it also allows frame rate to fluctuate heavily. From 80 in cities to 300 in small caves/dungeons.
Bloody great job devs. I've been trying to play this game for 2 years but there are constantly weird technical problems. So I'll probably wait yet another year before I try again.

AlandroSul

I'm surprised that nobody wrote about it but there is actually a solution (for those who own Nvidia graphic card). Set MinFrameTime.2 to 0.00000000, then go to Nvidia Control Panel and set desired Max Frame Rate number. It works for me.

sentientomega

I have Windows 10's 2004 update, all of you having the problems I am need to come right out and say whether you've got the same Windows update or not.

sentientomega

Okay, Win 7 compatibility mode, what do you all think? Would it make a difference to those of us with the 10 2004 update?

EDIT: Nvm, it didn't change a thing.

With more and more people getting 2004, Zeni needs to make the game's welcoming of 2004 update players a *top* priority.

LainUnchained

Im not sure if this is the reason behind every performance issue. Maybe is not even the culprit in your case... but its a major thing for sure;
There's a windows API named 'QueryPerformanceFrequency' wich in previous OS version was returning a value of '3' (for sake of simplicity)
Now (at least in Win 1909+) that same API returns '10'. This is not a problem in 99% of the apps out there.. the thing here is that ESO client use this value internally to do some calculations and those calculations define how the game engine flows.

In other words, im pretty sure the client is not even coded to adjust all the calculated values of what before was a pretty constant '3' to what now (prior to a specific version of the OS) is a '10'.

This is not something u can turn off/on with any configuration. A main system library is returning this value... so, no registry tweak, no compatibility setting... nothing. Just live with it and hope the developers adjust the game engine to something like

[Satire code representation]
if ( windows_version >= 1909) {
value_that_control_all_others = 3.0;
}
else {
QueryPerformanceFrecuency(value_that_control_all_others);
}
[/Satire code representation]

Nocturnal_red

As I see problem is not solved and devs wont plan to fix it?

AlandroSul

Microsoft 2004 is probably not a cause. I'd say

Nocturnal_red wrote: »

As I see problem is not solved and devs wont plan to fix it?

The truth is that devs of ESO never admit to things they have messed up. So it may be fixed in the future or not.

Zymcio

Trials are unplayable .... a lot of desync comeone fix it !

Semfim

Tried the "MinFrameTime.2 to 0.00000000" solution, but it didn't work for me. Thank you for the heads up, though, @ZOS_BillE . (I had reported a similar problem of fps cut in half in another thread. Setup: Ryzen 7 1700, Radeon RX 5700 XT, 32 Gb Ram)

There is maintenance on the 31st, here's hoping they fix it...

sentientomega

Vernilon wrote: »

Microsoft 2004 is probably not a cause. I'd say

Nocturnal_red wrote: »

As I see problem is not solved and devs wont plan to fix it?

The truth is that devs of ESO never admit to things they have messed up. So it may be fixed in the future or not.

Well, are people on 1909 and before having the exact same problem we are? Sudden and permanent fps drops after 30-60 mins or so, fixed only by restarting the game. That's what we're talking about here.

DovahkiinHeart

Vernilon wrote: »

I'm surprised that nobody wrote about it but there is actually a solution (for those who own Nvidia graphic card). Set MinFrameTime.2 to 0.00000000, then go to Nvidia Control Panel and set desired Max Frame Rate number. It works for me.

Thank you very much for this. This is exactly what I did.

My pc just updated. I noticed immediately that in vvardenfell, while doing my writs, my FPS would sit at 64-63 ish when it usually was at 100, as that is what I had set my Nvidia refresh rate to. Luckily I found this thread, and I went to check what exactly went down through my view update history. Lo and behold, 'Feature update to Windows 10, version 2004' successfully installed on 9/15/20.