Shield Stacking.... Is it REALLY needed?

Robbmrp

With the updates done to the PTS "supposedly" to reduce shields and after actually fighting people in IC I see no difference to it at all. The people doing it still take FOREVER to kill and it's even worse it seems with the damage reduction.

So why do we really need shield stacking anyway? If you need 2-4 shields on your character to be able to play this game then there's something wrong. Damage shields should not stack IMO, you should get the stronger of the two but not both. If your taking too much damage while being shielded....DODGE....

tinythinker

Robbmrp wrote: »

If your taking too much damage while being shielded....DODGE....

Makes TOTAL sense given that they previously increased dodge cost, added a cost penalty to such moves in the current patch being tested, and that characters who use such shields are usually magicka based and have low stamina.

Robbmrp

tinythinker wrote: »

Robbmrp wrote: »

If your taking too much damage while being shielded....DODGE....

Makes TOTAL sense given that they previously increased dodge cost, added a cost penalty to such moves in the current patch being tested, and that characters who use such shields are usually magicka based and have low stamina.

I'm a magicka templar and still have stamina to dodge.

tinythinker

Robbmrp wrote: »

tinythinker wrote: »

Robbmrp wrote: »

If your taking too much damage while being shielded....DODGE....

Makes TOTAL sense given that they previously increased dodge cost, added a cost penalty to such moves in the current patch being tested, and that characters who use such shields are usually magicka based and have low stamina.

I'm a magicka templar and still have stamina to dodge.

How many times while also using Break Free and blocking? Enough to avoid the same amount of damage mitigated by shields?

Zsymon

I agree, don't nerf individual damage shields, but remove shield stacking.

Robbmrp

Your not supposed to just stand there and block or shield the whole time. When someone can stand in one spot and block and shield from 10 opponents, there's an issue.

Etaniel

Robbmrp wrote: »

Your not supposed to just stand there and block or shield the whole time. When someone can stand in one spot and block and shield from 10 opponents, there's an issue.

Sorry to break it to you, but a sorc can only stand there and shield against 10 opponents if those opponents are potatoes.

Kupoking

Agreed with op.

Def. Components should come from more than one aspects.

tinythinker

Robbmrp wrote: »

Your not supposed to just stand there and block or shield the whole time. When someone can stand in one spot and block and shield from 10 opponents, there's an issue.

It isn't about standing in one spot. Lots of enemies use CC, and you either lose mobility/take damage from it or Break Free. If you see a big attack coming you block or dodge. These things rapidly drain stam from magicka builds, who are going to stack magicka because it boosts their damage/healing/defense. Magicka builds tend to use light armor, which was changed to offer very little actual protection for the wearer. In this scenario, what would a typical player do to try to stay alive? Faulting players for shield stacking is ignoring the game mechanics.

People wanted light armor nerfed and they wanted damage shields nerfed and they want shield stacking nerfed, so, at some point the question becomes a matter of how the basic mechanics work. Take the following example. If you look at Templars, since you brought up that class, they had a great shield for tanky types that people would run away from until it exploded. No need to stack shields, just pop a Blazing Shield and watch people scatter. Then it got nerfed. Unless you have a really, really large health pool, it doesn't do much anymore. Players frequently don't even run away from it since it was changed.

Again, players will gravitate toward what gives the best return for the investment and minimizes weakness. If the mechanics say shield stacking is your best (or only) option, that's what they will do.

Robbmrp

tinythinker wrote: »

Robbmrp wrote: »

Your not supposed to just stand there and block or shield the whole time. When someone can stand in one spot and block and shield from 10 opponents, there's an issue.

It isn't about standing in one spot. Lots of enemies use CC, and you either lose mobility/take damage from it or Break Free. If you see a big attack coming you block or dodge. These things rapidly drain stam from magicka builds, who are going to stack magicka because it boosts their damage/healing/defense. Magicka builds tend to use light armor, which was changed to offer very little actual protection for the wearer. In this scenario, what would a typical player do to try to stay alive? Faulting players for shield stacking is ignoring the game mechanics.

People wanted light armor nerfed and they wanted damage shields nerfed and they want shield stacking nerfed, so, at some point the question becomes a matter of how the basic mechanics work. Take the following example. If you look at Templars, since you brought up that class, they had a great shield for tanky types that people would run away from until it exploded. No need to stack shields, just pop a Blazing Shield and watch people scatter. Then it got nerfed. Unless you have a really, really large health pool, it doesn't do much anymore. Players frequently don't even run away from it since it was changed.

Again, players will gravitate toward what gives the best return for the investment and minimizes weakness. If the mechanics say shield stacking is your best (or only) option, that's what they will do.

That they will. I just feel there's no need to stack damage shields. A Sorc can dodge roll once and bolt 7 times to clear everything. There's no need to stack multiple shields on it. I know for a fact that 7 Bolts is still manageable, a friend of mine tested it out right in front of me with constant casts. And as far as dodge rolls go, I think I have 10-12 points in stamina is all and with a purple tri-food buff I am almost able to dodge roll 4 times consecutively.

People need mortality in this game, it's one of the basic parts of the game. You fight, you win, you fight you die. We still have 10 people all V15's hitting 1 person and they can still escape out of it while barely taking any damage.

Docmandu

IMHO the biggest PvP issue in this game is the self heals / shields. In most games you need another player to keep you healed / up, in this game a player can self heal through a big chunk of damage and some heals even give a bonus to yourself. This is something that I always found very strange.

Makes solo'ing easy in the game, but the self heals are too strong in many cases.

If they ever change Healing Ward to ntw give such a huge self heal (but keep the strength for healing others), I think much of the shield stacking issue would become a non-issue.. as it is now, that 300% increase for low health combined with extra shielding is what is causing many problems. (even more so in non-vet, where healing ward is basically an I-WIN button).

Robbmrp

Docmandu wrote: »

IMHO the biggest PvP issue in this game is the self heals / shields. In most games you need another player to keep you healed / up, in this game a player can self heal through a big chunk of damage and some heals even give a bonus to yourself. This is something that I always found very strange.

Makes solo'ing easy in the game, but the self heals are too strong in many cases.

If they ever change Healing Ward to ntw give such a huge self heal (but keep the strength for healing others), I think much of the shield stacking issue would become a non-issue.. as it is now, that 300% increase for low health combined with extra shielding is what is causing many problems. (even more so in non-vet, where healing ward is basically an I-WIN button).

Right. So not only can they double stack damage shields, they can self heal with it as well. If they want a heal and a shield they should only be able to pop the Healing Ward and not another damage shield IMO.

Dracane

OMG. Simply make it impossible to use healing ward+ another shield and it's fine.
Shield stacking is essential to magicka classes, as they will be dead in no time without.

Healing Ward my friends ! that's the enemy you're looking for

Forestd16b14_ESO

Shields are still a little bit to strong but again it isn't the shield the problem but the stacking of 5 or 6 and of course the easiest answer is only allow to stack 2 shields.

Ezareth

Robbmrp wrote: »

Your not supposed to just stand there and block or shield the whole time. When someone can stand in one spot and block and shield from 10 opponents, there's an issue.

Yeah those 10 opponents need to head back to carebear land and grind more boars or something because they're bad.

Even the most prolific shield stacking sorcs can't stand 3 good players attacking them at once without dying.

Dracane

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Shields are still a little bit to strong but again it isn't the shield the problem but the stacking of 5 or 6 and of course the easiest answer is only allow to stack 2 shields.

Yea, I think allowing 2 shields would fix the entire problem. Each class can have 2 shields.

Ezareth

Docmandu wrote: »

IMHO the biggest PvP issue in this game is the self heals / shields. In most games you need another player to keep you healed / up, in this game a player can self heal through a big chunk of damage and some heals even give a bonus to yourself. This is something that I always found very strange.

Makes solo'ing easy in the game, but the self heals are too strong in many cases.

If they ever change Healing Ward to ntw give such a huge self heal (but keep the strength for healing others), I think much of the shield stacking issue would become a non-issue.. as it is now, that 300% increase for low health combined with extra shielding is what is causing many problems. (even more so in non-vet, where healing ward is basically an I-WIN button).

That's because the -50% Shield debuff in cyrodiil is *additive* with every other increase instead of being multiplicative. This means that a 300% healing ward becomes "only" 250%.

NTclaymore

I think removing shield stacking would give some problems.
Bone shield for example only Blocks phychial damage. so if i want to reflect spell damage aswell i need another shield.
what about the hardening enchantment? it will be completely useless if shieldstacking would get removed. It could block the use of healing Ward because i used a heavy attack. That would not be good!

If someone just stands there spamming shields to defend themself you might be 10+ on him/her n still take some time before you kill the person. but how much damage did he/she manage to do while he stood there? none. All resources was spend spamming shields n breaking free. no time to offensive skills or he/she would just die faster.
(remember you cant hold block either anymore while shield spamming or use histbark with evasion)

But if we must you chould make it so your second shield will only be 80% of its original power because you had a shield up.
then just stack that so each shield gets weaker. It would still ruin the hardening enchant , Spikey bone shield and more.

So no. i dont think shieldstack removial is the thing we need.

Robbmrp

NTclaymore wrote: »

I think removing shield stacking would give some problems.
Bone shield for example only Blocks phychial damage. so if i want to reflect spell damage aswell i need another shield.
what about the hardening enchantment? it will be completely useless if shieldstacking would get removed. It could block the use of healing Ward because i used a heavy attack. That would not be good!

If someone just stands there spamming shields to defend themself you might be 10+ on him/her n still take some time before you kill the person. but how much damage did he/she manage to do while he stood there? none. All resources was spend spamming shields n breaking free. no time to offensive skills or he/she would just die faster.
(remember you cant hold block either anymore while shield spamming or use histbark with evasion)

But if we must you chould make it so your second shield will only be 80% of its original power because you had a shield up.
then just stack that so each shield gets weaker. It would still ruin the hardening enchant , Spikey bone shield and more.

So no. i dont think shieldstack removial is the thing we need.

Your suggestion would work pretty well I think. Keep the stacking but reduce the effect of all other shields added.

r.jan_emailb16_ESO

Ezareth wrote: »

Docmandu wrote: »

IMHO the biggest PvP issue in this game is the self heals / shields. In most games you need another player to keep you healed / up, in this game a player can self heal through a big chunk of damage and some heals even give a bonus to yourself. This is something that I always found very strange.

Makes solo'ing easy in the game, but the self heals are too strong in many cases.

If they ever change Healing Ward to ntw give such a huge self heal (but keep the strength for healing others), I think much of the shield stacking issue would become a non-issue.. as it is now, that 300% increase for low health combined with extra shielding is what is causing many problems. (even more so in non-vet, where healing ward is basically an I-WIN button).

That's because the -50% Shield debuff in cyrodiil is *additive* with every other increase instead of being multiplicative. This means that a 300% healing ward becomes "only" 250%.

Really? Not surprising, but disappointing.