With the new damage reduction in pvp.....

OGLezard

.......liquid lightning is so laughable and wall of elements is.....well......its junk. Can we either buff these two skills to be on par with every other AoE people spam, or remove them from the game and get new skills? Wall of Elements right now for me is 385 damage every .5 seconds reduce that by 50% and well why would you step out of it. Seriously, I do not know about this new patch

Thymos

Which element? Fire?

Vatter

I like the damage reductions

olsborg

TTK is way to long now, they cant seem to hit the right balance. The new battlespirit and the nerf to wep and spelldmg from sets is overdoing it, boring to fight 1v1 now.

OGLezard

lightning @Thymos

tinythinker

Some skills won't work as well in PvP, so take them off of the PvP bar and put them on a PvE bar. The damage reduction is actually forcing people to fight and think than stack stam/magicka and kill in 0.5 seconds or less, but, some skills still work really well with the right buffs and rotations.

OGLezard

tinythinker wrote: »

Some skills won't work as well in PvP, so take them off of the PvP bar and put them on a PvE bar. The damage reduction is actually forcing people to fight and think than stack stam/magicka and kill in 0.5 seconds or less, but, some skills still work really well with the right buffs and rotations.

@tinythinker so in other words we all use the same boring builds if we want to compete lol

tinythinker

OGLezard wrote: »

tinythinker wrote: »

Some skills won't work as well in PvP, so take them off of the PvP bar and put them on a PvE bar. The damage reduction is actually forcing people to fight and think than stack stam/magicka and kill in 0.5 seconds or less, but, some skills still work really well with the right buffs and rotations.

@tinythinker so in other words we all use the same boring builds if we want to compete lol

Nope, it means try new things, see what works and doesn't work, and get used to fights that aren't over super-quick. I've only been using what I had from live and it works just fine. I'm sure there are many ways to fight, but it will take time for people to find them. In fact, I bet there will be more ways since currently people in PvP generally try to do the same damage stacking tricks.

OGLezard

tinythinker wrote: »

OGLezard wrote: »

tinythinker wrote: »

Some skills won't work as well in PvP, so take them off of the PvP bar and put them on a PvE bar. The damage reduction is actually forcing people to fight and think than stack stam/magicka and kill in 0.5 seconds or less, but, some skills still work really well with the right buffs and rotations.

@tinythinker so in other words we all use the same boring builds if we want to compete lol

Nope, it means try new things, see what works and doesn't work, and get used to fights that aren't over super-quick. I've only been using what I had from live and it works just fine. I'm sure there are many ways to fight, but it will take time for people to find them. In fact, I bet there will be more ways since currently people in PvP generally try to do the same damage stacking tricks.

@tinythinker yes in live everyone still does but at least in live you have options. In the new patch those options, at least the ones I used (and were very effective) are now useless. 157 damage per half a second LOL LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL no thanks.

tinythinker

OGLezard wrote: »

tinythinker wrote: »

OGLezard wrote: »

tinythinker wrote: »

Some skills won't work as well in PvP, so take them off of the PvP bar and put them on a PvE bar. The damage reduction is actually forcing people to fight and think than stack stam/magicka and kill in 0.5 seconds or less, but, some skills still work really well with the right buffs and rotations.

@tinythinker so in other words we all use the same boring builds if we want to compete lol

Nope, it means try new things, see what works and doesn't work, and get used to fights that aren't over super-quick. I've only been using what I had from live and it works just fine. I'm sure there are many ways to fight, but it will take time for people to find them. In fact, I bet there will be more ways since currently people in PvP generally try to do the same damage stacking tricks.

@tinythinker yes in live everyone still does but at least in live you have options. In the new patch those options, at least the ones I used (and were very effective) are now useless. 157 damage per half a second LOL LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL no thanks.

Sooo, the little time you've tried 2.1 on the PTS means the new system is bad because what you're used to has changed? OK. You can LOL away on the forums or try to adjust/experiment.

Draehl

Like was said above- some skills aren't conducive to PvP. Refreshing Path, for example, is one that suffers the same issues.

OGLezard

tinythinker wrote: »

OGLezard wrote: »

tinythinker wrote: »

OGLezard wrote: »

tinythinker wrote: »

Some skills won't work as well in PvP, so take them off of the PvP bar and put them on a PvE bar. The damage reduction is actually forcing people to fight and think than stack stam/magicka and kill in 0.5 seconds or less, but, some skills still work really well with the right buffs and rotations.

@tinythinker so in other words we all use the same boring builds if we want to compete lol

Nope, it means try new things, see what works and doesn't work, and get used to fights that aren't over super-quick. I've only been using what I had from live and it works just fine. I'm sure there are many ways to fight, but it will take time for people to find them. In fact, I bet there will be more ways since currently people in PvP generally try to do the same damage stacking tricks.

@tinythinker yes in live everyone still does but at least in live you have options. In the new patch those options, at least the ones I used (and were very effective) are now useless. 157 damage per half a second LOL LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL no thanks.

Sooo, the little time you've tried 2.1 on the PTS means the new system is bad because what you're used to has changed? OK. You can LOL away on the forums or try to adjust/experiment.

when the numers are THAT low @tinythinker yes, I can say I do not like it. Especially when I go into IC and I am getting hit for far superior numbers than what I can dish out on pts.....yes. yes I can say it even with little to no testing. On live it is not an issue at all. On pts, it seems a good chunk of skills I used to use are now rendered completely useless as in not even gonna be considered

Joy_Division

olsborg wrote: »

TTK is way to long now, they cant seem to hit the right balance. The new battlespirit and the nerf to wep and spelldmg from sets is overdoing it, boring to fight 1v1 now.

Once people figure out the best set and skill combinations and acquire the best gear, people will die as fast as ever

Hears_Bright_Colors

TTK seems really high right now, but need to see how it goes once everyone gets their new gear sets and figures out skill builds. If I had to choose, high TTK is more fun than what we've had.

tinythinker

Joy_Division wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

TTK is way to long now, they cant seem to hit the right balance. The new battlespirit and the nerf to wep and spelldmg from sets is overdoing it, boring to fight 1v1 now.

Once people figure out the best set and skill combinations and acquire the best gear, people will die as fast as ever

I've already seen at least experienced player, a stam build, who can still get a very quick TTK (~5-6 seconds), but, overall, it is slower.

GreenSoup2HoT

I find longer TTK more fun.

tinythinker

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

I find longer TTK more fun.

I do too, but for the OP the issue seems to be that some people's builds are doing less well than others, so some folks still get a faster TTK while other struggle to stay alive. I can sympathize. Overall I like the reduced damage/increased TTK from what I've seen in between crashes but there will still be quick deaths in Cyrodiil for the average player. Maybe not as many or as often, but that aspect won't be going away.

Alcast

tinythinker wrote: »

OGLezard wrote: »

tinythinker wrote: »

OGLezard wrote: »

tinythinker wrote: »

Some skills won't work as well in PvP, so take them off of the PvP bar and put them on a PvE bar. The damage reduction is actually forcing people to fight and think than stack stam/magicka and kill in 0.5 seconds or less, but, some skills still work really well with the right buffs and rotations.

@tinythinker so in other words we all use the same boring builds if we want to compete lol

Nope, it means try new things, see what works and doesn't work, and get used to fights that aren't over super-quick. I've only been using what I had from live and it works just fine. I'm sure there are many ways to fight, but it will take time for people to find them. In fact, I bet there will be more ways since currently people in PvP generally try to do the same damage stacking tricks.

@tinythinker yes in live everyone still does but at least in live you have options. In the new patch those options, at least the ones I used (and were very effective) are now useless. 157 damage per half a second LOL LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL no thanks.

Sooo, the little time you've tried 2.1 on the PTS means the new system is bad because what you're used to has changed? OK. You can LOL away on the forums or try to adjust/experiment.

THis is normal Sorc behaviour, befor doing checks better come to Forum and QQ /remember1.6

OGLezard

tinythinker wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

I find longer TTK more fun.

I do too, but for the OP the issue seems to be that some people's builds are doing less well than others, so some folks still get a faster TTK while other struggle to stay alive. I can sympathize. Overall I like the reduced damage/increased TTK from what I've seen in between crashes but there will still be quick deaths in Cyrodiil for the average player. Maybe not as many or as often, but that aspect won't be going away.

I might have come off wrong yesterday. I love the new ttk. It is a welcomed change. With that being said though, my build was literally obliterated in this patch because of the new changes to damage. Meanwhile gankers can still burst you down with their silly 1 second combos (granted it takes two seconds now), permablockers can still permablockcast, and here I am sitting here like "well darn, now I have to be a cookie cutter sorc"

OGLezard

Alcast wrote: »

tinythinker wrote: »

OGLezard wrote: »

tinythinker wrote: »

OGLezard wrote: »

tinythinker wrote: »

Some skills won't work as well in PvP, so take them off of the PvP bar and put them on a PvE bar. The damage reduction is actually forcing people to fight and think than stack stam/magicka and kill in 0.5 seconds or less, but, some skills still work really well with the right buffs and rotations.

@tinythinker so in other words we all use the same boring builds if we want to compete lol

Nope, it means try new things, see what works and doesn't work, and get used to fights that aren't over super-quick. I've only been using what I had from live and it works just fine. I'm sure there are many ways to fight, but it will take time for people to find them. In fact, I bet there will be more ways since currently people in PvP generally try to do the same damage stacking tricks.

@tinythinker yes in live everyone still does but at least in live you have options. In the new patch those options, at least the ones I used (and were very effective) are now useless. 157 damage per half a second LOL LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL no thanks.

Sooo, the little time you've tried 2.1 on the PTS means the new system is bad because what you're used to has changed? OK. You can LOL away on the forums or try to adjust/experiment.

THis is normal Sorc behaviour, befor doing checks better come to Forum and QQ /remember1.6

@Alcast no I did a lot of checks in IC yesterday. Gankfest, way reduced damage, and the only skills viable now are crushing shock, crystal frags, curse. Pets are still a joke. I cant even do my DoT build that I rock in live because of the reduced damage. So please continue to say I can here to just QQ. If this reduced damage is going to stay, which it will, then they need to readjust damage numbers for ground aoes. Enough of letting PBAOE be the end all.

@ZOS_GinaBruno anyway you can pass that along to eric, that the new damage numbers for ground aoes are laughable when reduced? They really need to increase those numbers to make them more competitive. you cant run from steel tornado or impulse spammers, but you can easily side step liquid lightning or wall of elements. Now you dont even have too because it is such a low number of damage now that they are not a threat.

tinythinker

OGLezard wrote: »

tinythinker wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

I find longer TTK more fun.

I do too, but for the OP the issue seems to be that some people's builds are doing less well than others, so some folks still get a faster TTK while other struggle to stay alive. I can sympathize. Overall I like the reduced damage/increased TTK from what I've seen in between crashes but there will still be quick deaths in Cyrodiil for the average player. Maybe not as many or as often, but that aspect won't be going away.

I might have come off wrong yesterday. I love the new ttk. It is a welcomed change. With that being said though, my build was literally obliterated in this patch because of the new changes to damage. Meanwhile gankers can still burst you down with their silly 1 second combos (granted it takes two seconds now), permablockers can still permablockcast, and here I am sitting here like "well darn, now I have to be a cookie cutter sorc"

I understand, and like I said, I sympathize. I am hoping to find things that didn't work as well before that work better now, or things that used to work that still do with one of the new sets. I have no problem with people not liking changes, as I haven't enjoyed PvP nearly as much as I used to since 1.6 dropped. I am just trying as many things as possible to get a better idea of what kind of changes or modifications to post or send /feedback about.

OGLezard

Alcast wrote: »

tinythinker wrote: »

OGLezard wrote: »

tinythinker wrote: »

OGLezard wrote: »

tinythinker wrote: »

Some skills won't work as well in PvP, so take them off of the PvP bar and put them on a PvE bar. The damage reduction is actually forcing people to fight and think than stack stam/magicka and kill in 0.5 seconds or less, but, some skills still work really well with the right buffs and rotations.

@tinythinker so in other words we all use the same boring builds if we want to compete lol

Nope, it means try new things, see what works and doesn't work, and get used to fights that aren't over super-quick. I've only been using what I had from live and it works just fine. I'm sure there are many ways to fight, but it will take time for people to find them. In fact, I bet there will be more ways since currently people in PvP generally try to do the same damage stacking tricks.

@tinythinker yes in live everyone still does but at least in live you have options. In the new patch those options, at least the ones I used (and were very effective) are now useless. 157 damage per half a second LOL LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL no thanks.

Sooo, the little time you've tried 2.1 on the PTS means the new system is bad because what you're used to has changed? OK. You can LOL away on the forums or try to adjust/experiment.

THis is normal Sorc behaviour, befor doing checks better come to Forum and QQ /remember1.6

@Alcast no I did a lot of checks in IC yesterday. Gankfest, way reduced damage, and the only skills viable now are crushing shock, crystal frags, curse. Pets are still a joke. I cant even do my DoT build that I rock in live because of the reduced damage. So please continue to say I came here to just QQ. If this reduced damage is going to stay, which it will, then they need to readjust damage numbers for ground aoes. Enough of letting PBAOE be the end all.

@ZOS_GinaBruno anyway you can pass that along to eric, that the new damage numbers for ground aoes are laughable when reduced? They really need to increase those numbers to make them more competitive. you cant run from steel tornado or impulse spammers, but you can easily side step liquid lightning or wall of elements. Now you dont even have too because it is such a low number of damage now that they are not a threat.

OGLezard

tinythinker wrote: »

OGLezard wrote: »

tinythinker wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

I find longer TTK more fun.

I do too, but for the OP the issue seems to be that some people's builds are doing less well than others, so some folks still get a faster TTK while other struggle to stay alive. I can sympathize. Overall I like the reduced damage/increased TTK from what I've seen in between crashes but there will still be quick deaths in Cyrodiil for the average player. Maybe not as many or as often, but that aspect won't be going away.

I might have come off wrong yesterday. I love the new ttk. It is a welcomed change. With that being said though, my build was literally obliterated in this patch because of the new changes to damage. Meanwhile gankers can still burst you down with their silly 1 second combos (granted it takes two seconds now), permablockers can still permablockcast, and here I am sitting here like "well darn, now I have to be a cookie cutter sorc"

I understand, and like I said, I sympathize. I am hoping to find things that didn't work as well that work better now, or things that used to work that still do with one of the new sets. I have no problem with people not liking changes, as I haven't enjoyed PvP nearly as much as I used to since 1.6 dropped. I am just trying as many things as possible to get a better idea of what kind of changes or modifications to post or send /feedback about.

@tinythinker I have submitted lots of feedback, I was testing everything for almost 8 hours yesterday (yea excited about it even though I dislike a lot of the changes). I tried multiple setups for builds (without testing new gear). All the mats needed for the new sets is just silly so I wont even bother lol. The only set that interest me is the phoenix (light armor) and the one that gives you lightning form just for casting a class ability. It seems that stamina people got the better end of gear sets in this patch.

With that being said, I plan to do more testing, the initial reaction for the builds I have tried are not that good. The one that shines far superior is the cookie cutter sorc build and thats what I do not want to do but the impression I am getting is that we are now gonna be forced to do that unless some serious numbers are adjusted on skills no one uses (I used them at least and made them work).

tinythinker

OGLezard wrote: »

@Alcast no I did a lot of checks in IC yesterday. Gankfest, way reduced damage, and the only skills viable now are crushing shock, crystal frags, curse. Pets are still a joke. I cant even do my DoT build that I rock in live because of the reduced damage. So please continue to say I came here to just QQ. If this reduced damage is going to stay, which it will, then they need to readjust damage numbers for ground aoes. Enough of letting PBAOE be the end all.

@ZOS_GinaBruno anyway you can pass that along to eric, that the new damage numbers for ground aoes are laughable when reduced? They really need to increase those numbers to make them more competitive. you cant run from steel tornado or impulse spammers, but you can easily side step liquid lightning or wall of elements. Now you dont even have too because it is such a low number of damage now that they are not a threat.

OGLezard wrote: »

@tinythinker I have submitted lots of feedback, I was testing everything for almost 8 hours yesterday (yea excited about it even though I dislike a lot of the changes). I tried multiple setups for builds (without testing new gear). All the mats needed for the new sets is just silly so I wont even bother lol. The only set that interest me is the phoenix (light armor) and the one that gives you lightning form just for casting a class ability. It seems that stamina people got the better end of gear sets in this patch.

With that being said, I plan to do more testing, the initial reaction for the builds I have tried are not that good. The one that shines far superior is the cookie cutter sorc build and thats what I do not want to do but the impression I am getting is that we are now gonna be forced to do that unless some serious numbers are adjusted on skills no one uses.

Your efforts are appreciated. It did come across differently before, but even so, you have a right to speak your mind about you like or don't like whether other people approve of or appreciate it or not.

Yeah, crushing shock, frags, and curse still work well. Haven't tried ground AoEs or pets as I never use them outside of PvE. Might be hard to fix issues with their damage in PvP even if ZOS is inclined to do so, since Battle Spirit gives an across the board cut to damage, almost certainly made with a simple change to the coding.

To get ground AoEs and pets up in PvP without increasing the damage of other abilities, I am guessing that they would have to increase the damage for pet/ground AoE abilities (which would make them even stronger in PvE) or add in new code that allowed them to modify different categories of damage independently of one another in Cyrodiil. The former might be seen as an overall game balance issue, while the latter might involve a lot of extra coding that could lead to more lag if the system has to check ability type before applying damage.

OGLezard

tinythinker wrote: »

OGLezard wrote: »

@Alcast no I did a lot of checks in IC yesterday. Gankfest, way reduced damage, and the only skills viable now are crushing shock, crystal frags, curse. Pets are still a joke. I cant even do my DoT build that I rock in live because of the reduced damage. So please continue to say I came here to just QQ. If this reduced damage is going to stay, which it will, then they need to readjust damage numbers for ground aoes. Enough of letting PBAOE be the end all.

@ZOS_GinaBruno anyway you can pass that along to eric, that the new damage numbers for ground aoes are laughable when reduced? They really need to increase those numbers to make them more competitive. you cant run from steel tornado or impulse spammers, but you can easily side step liquid lightning or wall of elements. Now you dont even have too because it is such a low number of damage now that they are not a threat.

OGLezard wrote: »

@tinythinker I have submitted lots of feedback, I was testing everything for almost 8 hours yesterday (yea excited about it even though I dislike a lot of the changes). I tried multiple setups for builds (without testing new gear). All the mats needed for the new sets is just silly so I wont even bother lol. The only set that interest me is the phoenix (light armor) and the one that gives you lightning form just for casting a class ability. It seems that stamina people got the better end of gear sets in this patch.

With that being said, I plan to do more testing, the initial reaction for the builds I have tried are not that good. The one that shines far superior is the cookie cutter sorc build and thats what I do not want to do but the impression I am getting is that we are now gonna be forced to do that unless some serious numbers are adjusted on skills no one uses.

Your efforts are appreciated. It did come across differently before, but even so, you have a right to speak your mind about you like or don't like whether other people approve of or appreciate it or not.

Yeah, crushing shock, frags, and curse still work well. Haven't tried ground AoEs or pets as I never use them outside of PvE. Might be hard to fix issues with their damage in PvP even if ZOS is inclined to do so, since Battle Spirit gives an across the board cut to damage, almost certainly made with a simple change to the coding. To get ground AoEs and pets up in PvP without increasing the damage of other abilities, I am guessing that they would have to increase the damage for pet/ground AoE abilities (which would make them even stronger in PvE) or add in new code that allowed them to modify different categories of damage independently of one another in Cyrodiil. The former might be seen as an overall game balance issue, while the latter might involve a lot of extra coding that could lead to more lag if the system has to check ability type before applying damage.

See thats the beauty of it! Ground AoEs NEED a boost! Why use wall of elements in pve OR pvp when impulse is superior? Why use liquid lightning when impulse trumps that too. Both, currently in pvp, are not a threat at all. If they boosted the damage numbers from those, it would add a support role to sorcs who can sit back and just keep ground AoEs on players or mobs. Variety is the spice of life, and I do not see variety at all right now lol That new lightning form set has a 8% chance to cover you in lightning and deal damage to all nearby enemies for 6 seconds (700 something damage). That alone should be boosted up to at least 12% since stamina people now have a set that gives them a 20% chance to recover 762 stamina when they block an attack PER attack......... just think about that obvious balance issue right there Since DoT from those two skills(and that set) applies every .5 seconds and blocking can now block each tick from those two DoTs, people are gonna be getting some serious stamina back and it will make using either of those skills(and set) even more atrocious.

Though I do have an idea I would like to test but can not test it due to the limited time I will have starting tomorrow. So I wont be able to test further as much as I would like until this goes live. My major concern is that they might not of fixed some exploits, or that new ones will be found and kept secret. Maybe that is just me being paranoid lol