PvE Tanking Future - R.I.P. Tanks - DO NOT GET RID OF STAM REGEN WHILE BLOCKING IN PVE

Rinmaethodain

The future of PVE tanking is clear - RIP Tanks

So among all the changes going along with "You will no longer regenerate stamina while blocking" the only thing ZOS added to "help" to balance this unnesesary nerf is to make serpent mundus stone give stamina regeneration.

TOO BAD that still when blocking even serpent mundus stone will give absolute 0 of stamina.

Thanks for gimping and crippling every tank in game just because some PVPers made false accusations that "tanks are OP in PVP". Thank you for ignoring whole community of PVE tanks and taking away their right to regenerate stamina while blocking.

When are we expecting "no mana regeneration while casting spells and healing" and "no health regeneration while doing anything"?

This change cripples every tank in PVE. Makes tanking boring and now limits tanks to "taunt and block and then die because ran out of stamina".

To everyone (especially to PVP dpses who are most happy with this change so they can now one shot kill everyone) who claims "its to make tanking more fun and less boring".

Tanking is nothing near boring. Actually stripping tanks from their right to have stamina regeneration will make tanking boring after 1.7
Against popular belief, tanks do not only taunt and hold block. They also sprint to run from AOE circles, dodge roll to avoid big AOEs.

They are usually the last one standing when whole group goes down. They are capable of resing people even if attacked by multiple mobs while standing in AOE. They can survive alone long enough to charge an ultimate with high damage shield (leap or magma shell) and bring whole party back to game.

But not anymore. Thanks to ZOS "0 stamina regen while blocking" now every bit of tank stamina will be precious and spent only on blocking attacks.
No more rolling, no more dodging, no more sprinting to save party members who went down.

Only NOW thanks to "0 stamina regen while blocking" nerf, tanking will become boring and not possible for those who are not in the 1% of know every mechanic without looking at boss.

If you think its not true, and you still are a tank then you probably spent last 50 dungeon runs with your special selected group of perfect DPSes and Healers doing your perfect runs and your group chat was full of "FTC report player X on enemy Y DPS OVER 9000!!". And of course when your perfect run didnt go as planned, one dps got killed then everyone on chat started crying "wipe wipe" because its not like, a party can get up in middle of fight and recover from that situation? No, in the perfect world boss dies in 30 seconds and if not whole party suicides to restart.

Try running a 100% pug with people who never been in that dungeon, see how "boring" tanking is.

trimsic_ESO

And you will have to slot the WW ultimate to get the 30% stamina regen.

Rinmaethodain

trimsic_ESO wrote: »

And you will have to slot the WW ultimate to get the 30% stamina regen.

Which will still be nullified when blocking.

tpanisiakb16_ESO

I'm really displeased with this. I get that in close groups the content became a face-roll and maybe needed a bit more challenge, but this seems like it'll heap worlds of frustration and responsibility on tanks.

Ah well, I'll check into it tonight and see just how bad it is, but I see nothing good at this perspective.

I play ESO as a tank. I have a sorc who I could care for -- but running PUGS and vets dungeons and being able to help people through achievements was what made ESO fun for me.

"Sorry we wiped on Mage guys, no stamina. Potion on CD. "

Shadesofkin

I tend to agree that the 0 Stamina Regen while blocking is a harsh and foolish overreaction to a problem of perma block casting. Even just slowing down Stamina Regen would have gone a long way.

Rinmaethodain

tpanisiakb16_ESO wrote: »

I'm really displeased with this. I get that in close groups the content became a face-roll and maybe needed a bit more challenge, but this seems like it'll heap worlds of frustration and responsibility on tanks.

Ah well, I'll check into it tonight and see just how bad it is, but I see nothing good at this perspective.

I play ESO as a tank. I have a sorc who I could care for -- but running PUGS and vets dungeons and being able to help people through achievements was what made ESO fun for me.

"Sorry we wiped on Mage guys, no stamina. Potion on CD. "

Shadesofkin wrote: »

I tend to agree that the 0 Stamina Regen while blocking is a harsh and foolish overreaction to a problem of perma block casting.

Especially crippling every PVE tank with this unjustified nerf. They could add it as a part of battle spirit generic PVP buff and solve the "issue" with permaglocking and permacasting in cyrio.

Alcast

PvE is not really an issue, you will just need to have 2 Tanks taking their turns

Shadesofkin

Alcast wrote: »

PvE is not really an issue, you will just need to have 2 Tanks taking their turns

As long as they can learn not to over taunt with one another, I would agree, but that doesn't change the fact that this is a harsh and lazy overreaction. It's the equivalent to torching a sketch instead of erasing and redrawing the line you don't like.

jcasini222ub17_ESO

Would it be too difficult to limit the types of spells used when blocking. I.E if blocking only defense spells could be cast, block needs to drop for offensive abilites. Since beta i thought it was a bit silly I could block cast. I always figured they'd venture into the off/def limitations than playing around with regen.

Rinmaethodain

Alcast wrote: »

PvE is not really an issue, you will just need to have 2 Tanks taking their turns

So thats how you see now every 4 man dungeon? 2 tanks 1 heals 1 dps? And a 2mil

Shadesofkin wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

PvE is not really an issue, you will just need to have 2 Tanks taking their turns

As long as they can learn not to over taunt with one another, I would agree, but that doesn't change the fact that this is a harsh and lazy overreaction. It's the equivalent to torching a sketch instead of erasing and redrawing the line you don't like.

From the last ESO live recordings we know that there are changes being made to taunting:
"Taunts

Taunt immunity will only apply to monsters which are effected by multiple players Taunts.

This means that two players can’t each take turns at Taunting the enemy but will allow a single tank to keep Taunting the enemy over and over. So if only one player is Taunting then the monster will not become Taunt immune."

Cleary ZOS doesnt want tanks taking turns. They fix taunt immunity for single tank, why not make it work with double tank? I see intentional change.

Alcast

Shadesofkin wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

PvE is not really an issue, you will just need to have 2 Tanks taking their turns

As long as they can learn not to over taunt with one another, I would agree, but that doesn't change the fact that this is a harsh and lazy overreaction. It's the equivalent to torching a sketch instead of erasing and redrawing the line you don't like.

Thats what happens when they only listen to PvPers...PvE will take the hit in the face....tho we will find ways!

Draehl

It is very much needed in PvP, however. I don't see why they can't just have an alternate ruleset for PvP.

That being said- they've stated it has been tested and content is still completable.

Shadesofkin

The issue seems to be that people within the QA crowd are woefully out of touch with the common player meta. Their constant "I've got a hammer and everything is a nail" approach to solving problems becomes tiresome real quick.

It does appear as if with the changes to taunt immunity that Trials aren't going to be able to rely on multiple tanks to help, but maybe I'm wrong, maybe it will just require timing. The main tank says "I'm down to x stamina, dropping block and dodging, someone pick him up" and they switch off when the timer has hit the 12sec mark.

Rinmaethodain

Shadesofkin wrote: »

The issue seems to be that people within the QA crowd are woefully out of touch with the common player meta. Their constant "I've got a hammer and everything is a nail" approach to solving problems becomes tiresome real quick.

It does appear as if with the changes to taunt immunity that Trials aren't going to be able to rely on multiple tanks to help, but maybe I'm wrong, maybe it will just require timing. The main tank says "I'm down to x stamina, dropping block and dodging, someone pick him up" and they switch off when the timer has hit the 12sec mark.

If only tank still have left stamina from blocking. Because sprinting and dodging cost stamina (and now even more, if tank has to dodge twice or more).

Shadesofkin

Yeah, I know, but as I've sang in the shower many times: I'm the king of wishful thinking.

tpanisiakb16_ESO

Draehl wrote: »

It is very much needed in PvP, however. I don't see why they can't just have an alternate ruleset for PvP.

That being said- they've stated it has been tested and content is still completable.

I still want to know what group composition and gear sets they were using to complete all this content. I doubt they can do vDSA with anything but a Templar healer and a DK tank in anything less than optimal gear. I'm not even talking about leader-board runs.

Tanks are already a dying breed, no one wants to play them since if stuffs hit the fan they're usually the first to blame.

How do you explain to groups now that may not be aware of the nerfs that I'm sorry, I really have to hold back only these two mobs because anything more and my stamina drains. How am I supposed to tank 4+ wraiths in a CoH run with poor DPS? What happens if a mob fears me and I get an unplanned heavy attack? How am I supposed to deal with the visual mess on top of the poor targeting system when I am wading and weaving between 8-10 mobs? Even without this nerf there is issues with tanking that we've always just dealt with.

This change is not good, it's utterly handicapping to most tanks and completely devastating to new tanks.

Rinmaethodain

tpanisiakb16_ESO wrote: »

Draehl wrote: »

It is very much needed in PvP, however. I don't see why they can't just have an alternate ruleset for PvP.

That being said- they've stated it has been tested and content is still completable.

I still want to know what group composition and gear sets they were using to complete all this content. I doubt they can do vDSA with anything but a Templar healer and a DK tank in anything less than optimal gear. I'm not even talking about leader-board runs.

Tanks are already a dying breed, no one wants to play them since if stuffs hit the fan they're usually the first to blame.

How do you explain to groups now that may not be aware of the nerfs that I'm sorry, I really have to hold back only these two mobs because anything more and my stamina drains. How am I supposed to tank 4+ wraiths in a CoH run with poor DPS? What happens if a mob fears me and I get an unplanned heavy attack? How am I supposed to deal with the visual mess on top of the poor targeting system when I am wading and weaving between 8-10 mobs? Even without this nerf there is issues with tanking that we've always just dealt with.

This change is not good, it's utterly handicapping to most tanks and completely devastating to new tanks.

And in addition to that it introduces a "0 mistake tolerance policy". Its equally probable that you will die from a mob as well as from a server lag, being animation stuck, having your abilities stuck or being unable to swap bars.

Before if lag happened you could still survive if you were holding block. If you got animation stuck you could always block and survive with regening stamina before the glitch wore off.

Right now , thanks to 0 stamina regen while blocking, thanks to 1% of perfect players who spent months grinding to be best and suddenly they complain "game is boring" and thanks to jeleous PVP dpses, PVE tanks are welcomed with "0 mistake tolerance" feature.

tpanisiakb16_ESO

Kind of on topic.

What should stam tanks be focusing their attributes on, now? Specifically looking for my DK stam tank. I use to roll with magicka / stam drinks, but I'm assuming it would probably be best to pick the increased stamina Mundus stone and have magicka / stamina blue food? (Or, hell, green stamina food?)

Tonnopesce

LOOOOL REALLY ?

Have you started at least to test on PTS or you have simply copy=>pasted your old thread?

MrBeatDown

You Stamina Tanks will probably be using Engine Guardian Head and Shoulders from now on, Even the Magicka Tanks also for Sustain.

Attorneyatlawl

Tonnopesceb16_ESO wrote: »

LOOOOL REALLY ?

Have you started at least to test on PTS or you have simply copy=>pasted your old thread?

He didn't even copy-paste his own thread, but someone else's , after the facts had already been addressed pretty thoroughly and concluded with rational players starting to test on live and planning on hopping over to PTS once it was up. *Shrug*

kojou

I may not be the best tank, but my tank only has about 600 stamina regen anyway. Taking away the 300/second is not going to help, but it is not going to hurt my tank that much either.

Now if they said they were not going to let my Engine Guardian proc while blocking then I would have a complaint. Also last I checked you could still pick up stamina from a Templar's shard while blocking as well...

Halfwitte

Remove Magicka Regeneration while healing and dpsing and remove Stamina regeneration while dpsing and this problem will be fixed and everyone will have fun managing resources and dodging and healing and dpsing at exactly the right time.

Nerf Perma Healers
Nerf Perma Dps
Nerf Perma Dodging
Nerf Perma BE
Nerf Perma Weaving
Nerf Perma Lag
Nerf Perma Grinders
Nerf Perma Spammers and Guild sellers
Nerf Perma PvP'ers
Nerf Perma PvE'ers

Balance everything in the name of fun.

RustedValor

Test on PTS and leave feedback. Its not so bad. I don't even block all the time on my templar tank and time blocks to boss attacks, usually dishing out some damage, taunting, popping shields, etc. Try taking the whitestrikes set over hist bark. The huge damage shield is awesome because your armor applies to damage shields, so it will save you in a pinch. Pop a tri pot, throw in some heavy attacks to recover stamina and block when needed. VDSA is a breeze for me and will probably be easier with the new templar buffs. DK still has some good tools in the arsenal aswell, and Vampire is now a viable tank with reduced fire damage so you could pop mist form, Devouring swarm, and now you can drain CC imune targets for a HUGE heal based on max HP. Tanking is not just blocking, and there is more than 1 way to skin a cat

birch44

I'm not going to lie. This change is VERY damaging for PVE tanks. But, to be perfectly honest, there will always be ways around it or to mitigate the downfalls. We as tanks will have to be at armor hard cap and have as much stam regen as possible so when we do drop block we can survive and get our stam back quick as possible.

I will hold my opinion until I get into IC and see exactly how much of an impact this has. If we have to pick and choose which attacks to block it will definitely add a new challenge to tanking in ESO.

Halfwitte

Just tested it on PTS.

Prepare to Die ALOT!

New Meta is definitely going be templar healing tanks with high magicka for self heals while dropping block. Healers should be excited they're going to be more than busy keeping the tank up in any remotely challenging content.

Or Vamp tanks misting every few seconds with a least one vamp ability to get the undeath passives.

You try to block one wrecking blow to not get stunned and killed and all your stamina is wiped out from all the light attacks everyone else is beating you with at the same time.

Forget using stamina for anything other than blocking and dodging.

Whatever you do don't dodge roll after the first time on accident the extra cost of one is killer.

Stamina is too precious now.

Tell your dps to get their running shoes on they're gonna need them.

Goodbye master sword I will no longer be able to afford you.

Expect any spare moment you have to be heavy attacking.

PS
Nirn gear is laughable now. Expect to dump all your CP into Spell resist to just get you back to 2/3 of what you had before PTS.

tpanisiakb16_ESO

Been playing around with my tank on PTS. Couldn't kill a group a scorpions in my tank setup. Not that I didn't have enough DPS, I just didn't have any stamina. Single target tanking should be fine, multiple targets will be a pain. GL getting vCoH HM or vBC HM.

IC is a nightmare. Between the constant CC's to break out of there's never enough stamina to block and recover some life, use a potion, GDB, etc., etc.

Play the way you want indeed.

ZoM_Head

Till this is tested on the PTS, my concerns as a tank are:

- Tanking those Conjured Axes in AA: The axes can deal 8K hits each while blocking in full heavy gear and footman. Currently my build reloves around drink buffs instead of food (regen health + stamina), so i can ease the load off the healers, especially in hard mode so they can focus on keeping the team alive and heal me when needed only. Now i am concerned that drink buffs for such a build will be useless, since blocking has to be up all the time.

-Hel Ra Citadel Warrior: He does a crazy 6 hit heavy attack (or something similar) that just eats you while blocking if the healers are not doing a good job. First boss can be a nightmare when blocking his heavy attacks and those sand storms before roll dodging away (stam drain). Second boss, the Welwas can also deal high damage and debuff you while blocking.

- Sanctum Ophidia: While blocking all attacks from the Mantikora, the bleed and poison is one of the most challenging parts for a tank and heavy relying on healers, the Serpants Image does his 4 light attacks that already drain both health and stamina. The serpent tanking + manikora (normal mode) will be hectic now, especially in hard mode with the comets, poison phase etc.

Veteran Arena: If i aggro just the boss and leave the two or three deadly adds that will 1 hit kill my group, how am i being a successful tank and focusing on threats only? being able to bash the boss and the sword/shield master in 1st stage is key for example (i can mention how important this is for every stage but this post is getting too long already).

Synergies have a 6 second cool down, meaning shards will not be able to be re-used once this cool down is achieved, and other stamina builds will be using this as well. If tanking now requires a large stamina pool, i am fine with that. But with the current nerfs and changes to stamina in general, especially since class skills are still magicka based, how would i go pvp? how will i solo pve content?

A pvp "tank" deals no damage (stamina wise) or very low and constant damage when wearing heavy and using 1H/2H. It is nothing compared to spells that just bombard you, especially with abilities that go through block like petrify and fear.

In pve at least, this makes me very concerned, because i was self reliable and never "needed" a healer or shards to keep myself alive (with some exceptions obviously). Tanks are already very very hard to find, and good tanks are even harder still. It appears i would either go full magicka and tank (spam earthern heart abilities to restore 5% stamina) or figure out some way to be able to aggro with stamina (pierce armour) several targets, block heavy attacks, bash/interrupt and keep myself self sustaining....which sounds nearly impossible unless you have some new set in there hidden from us.....

nordsavage

As the new quests roll over you shall hear "500 Dps's LF1M Tank" because the tanks all quit.

Nifty2g

why u remake my topic

bosmern_ESO

Good, now the good tanks will be separated from the bad. It was extremely boring to be a tank and go up and just hold block while casting magicka abilities.

Now tanking requires actual thought.