How can Radiant Destruction just be left as is????

cozmon3c_ESO

Jesus beam ruins your chance to come out on top in a 1vX.
Jesus beam every once in a while will do 100% to dead.
Jesus beam is fire based even though the tool tip says magic damage.
Jesus is unavoidable damage, unlike any other execute in the game you don't have to time it through a dodge roll.

Counters, block and massive magicka shields. Goodluck to anyone who doesn't have them.

ThatHappyCat

Apparently interrupting channelled spells is an alien concept these days.

Yeah Radiant Destruction is strong when you're outnumbered or otherwise cannot interrupt the Templar. It's also relatively useless in every other situation, a.k.a. situations where the Templar does not already have an advantage in numbers.

If you die to Radiant Destruction in a duel, you probably need to rethink your play.

CN_Daniel

I have tested jesus beam vs a sorc's execute: The sorc execute is still slightly stronger DPS, you just have to spam it.

I just wish it would end faster when you LOS it.

cozmon3c_ESO

they need to fix the bug where it ticks on target twice before the animation shows up. its dumb that its come this far and not fixed.

likewow777

The most interesting thing I find is, I've seen people get blasted with Radiant and NOT die instantly. I wonder why that is...?

Like I said before, if its a bug, cool, let them fix it. I'm totally fine with that. Sounds to me, though, like this is just another case of lag. Luckily, there's an easy way to find out. Go find a buddy in another faction who's a Templar, meet up somewhere in Cyro, and have that friend hit you with Radiant. If you die instantly over and over, bug report it, post here, whatever. If you don't, then it was a 1 time deal. Either way, you and the rest of us have the answer. Job done.

Attorneyatlawl

glak wrote: »

It's been nerfed and reworked numerous times. What's worse is the Death Recap shows all 20K over 3.6 seconds to be one giant tick.

Yep, same with siege and everything else. Meanwhile even addons are not permitted by the game to show you what hit you, just that you took X damage. The API needs to be opened up and basics like an optional combat log tab and buff/debuff indicators baked into the stock UI.

Attorneyatlawl

eliisra wrote: »

Johngo0036 wrote: »

I know that it is blockable, i know that I can dark shadow out of it,

I have a question around WHY i was executed from fullhealth to DEAD in a Second,

When radiant destruction started i had full health,
1 second later i was dead,

How the hell do i block that?

You cant do anything about that sadly. It's due to poor performance. Damage is delayed because of lag, so it queue's up, than all the dmg comes at you in one go, so you die in 0.5 sec. It happens a lot in PvP.

Jesus Beam does pathetic dmg outside of execute range. If that's hard to believe, make a templar on PTS and try it on a full health boss in PvE. You might as well be heavy attacking only, as far as dps goes.

The skill isn't broken during normal conditions. But in PvP the dmg from the channelled pulses acts clunky, delayed and queue's up because of lag, than when conditions clear a bit and you get all of it in your face and boom 20k Radiant Destruction on death recap.

This is correct, and the same is true in many other situations with many other skills. I have yet to see or encounter reason to feel Radiant and its morphs are overpowered at all. In fact, I often boggle at why I rarely see Templars run the life drain morph for PVP, and in the next breath complain about lack of survivability....

Johngo0036

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

they need to fix the bug where it ticks on target twice before the animation shows up. its dumb that its come this far and not fixed.

I have been checking out when i get killed by templars,

The issue is this where it has ticked already for 2 seconds before the animation actually shows,

This is probably also related to lag.

Lag is killing PVP,

My apologies to all Templars for my rant and this thread,

@Zenni - PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PRETTY PLEASE FIX THE LAG ISSUES

danno8

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

eliisra wrote: »

Johngo0036 wrote: »

I know that it is blockable, i know that I can dark shadow out of it,

I have a question around WHY i was executed from fullhealth to DEAD in a Second,

When radiant destruction started i had full health,
1 second later i was dead,

How the hell do i block that?

You cant do anything about that sadly. It's due to poor performance. Damage is delayed because of lag, so it queue's up, than all the dmg comes at you in one go, so you die in 0.5 sec. It happens a lot in PvP.

Jesus Beam does pathetic dmg outside of execute range. If that's hard to believe, make a templar on PTS and try it on a full health boss in PvE. You might as well be heavy attacking only, as far as dps goes.

The skill isn't broken during normal conditions. But in PvP the dmg from the channelled pulses acts clunky, delayed and queue's up because of lag, than when conditions clear a bit and you get all of it in your face and boom 20k Radiant Destruction on death recap.

This is correct, and the same is true in many other situations with many other skills. I have yet to see or encounter reason to feel Radiant and its morphs are overpowered at all. In fact, I often boggle at why I rarely see Templars run the life drain morph for PVP, and in the next breath complain about lack of survivability....

If you are talking about Radiant Glory (the healing 20% of damage morph), I ran that for a few days to see if it was any good. The only time the heal was worth much of anything was when the target was in execute range and you are getting 5k+ tics of damage, however at that point it was pretty much not necessary to have a heal since the target was going down anyway. Also, a decent Templar will never use a 3.5s channel skill when they are low on health unless they are looking to die.

I found that the extra 40% damage you get from Radiant Oppression was simply better, since that 40% is valuable at all times and makes Radiant Oppression somewhat more useful outside of execute range, whereas Radiant Glory was just absolutely abysmal outside of execute range.

Also, not sure if you know this, but you will never see "Radiant Glory" on a death recap, the skill is only ever reported as "Radiant Destruction". The "Radiant Glory" portion shows up as a heal on the Templars sheets, but the target will never see that. Same deal for Radiant Oppression, it only shows up as "Radiant Destruction".

ThatHappyCat

If a Templar is using Radiant Destruction then they're magicka-based, in which case they can Breath of Life themselves to full in one or two casts anyway. Which makes ZOS's insistence on adding self-healing to a bunch of magicka Templar skills rather mystifying.

Mr_Nobody

ThatHappyCat wrote: »

If a Templar is using Radiant Destruction then they're magicka-based, in which case they can Breath of Life themselves to full in one or two casts anyway. Which makes ZOS's insistence on adding self-healing to a bunch of magicka Templar skills rather mystifying.

zos balances PvE, not PvP. Dont be so naive ~

ThatHappyCat

Mr_Nobody wrote: »

ThatHappyCat wrote: »

If a Templar is using Radiant Destruction then they're magicka-based, in which case they can Breath of Life themselves to full in one or two casts anyway. Which makes ZOS's insistence on adding self-healing to a bunch of magicka Templar skills rather mystifying.

zos balances PvE, not PvP. Dont be so naive ~

This applies to both PvP and PvE. In fact in PvE it's even less relevant because if you're DPSing someone else is doing the healing for you, and if you're healing well you're healing...

Mr_Nobody

ThatHappyCat wrote: »

Mr_Nobody wrote: »

ThatHappyCat wrote: »

If a Templar is using Radiant Destruction then they're magicka-based, in which case they can Breath of Life themselves to full in one or two casts anyway. Which makes ZOS's insistence on adding self-healing to a bunch of magicka Templar skills rather mystifying.

zos balances PvE, not PvP. Dont be so naive ~

This applies to both PvP and PvE. In fact in PvE it's even less relevant because if you're DPSing someone else is doing the healing for you, and if you're healing well you're healing...

As a magicka templar you can pretty much use 2-3 skills/spells and level from lvl1 to VR14 while clearing any camp and/or any size of mob stacks due to all the sustain built in with damage. Sadly, it only works in PvE.

Attorneyatlawl

danno8 wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

eliisra wrote: »

Johngo0036 wrote: »

I know that it is blockable, i know that I can dark shadow out of it,

I have a question around WHY i was executed from fullhealth to DEAD in a Second,

When radiant destruction started i had full health,
1 second later i was dead,

How the hell do i block that?

You cant do anything about that sadly. It's due to poor performance. Damage is delayed because of lag, so it queue's up, than all the dmg comes at you in one go, so you die in 0.5 sec. It happens a lot in PvP.

Jesus Beam does pathetic dmg outside of execute range. If that's hard to believe, make a templar on PTS and try it on a full health boss in PvE. You might as well be heavy attacking only, as far as dps goes.

The skill isn't broken during normal conditions. But in PvP the dmg from the channelled pulses acts clunky, delayed and queue's up because of lag, than when conditions clear a bit and you get all of it in your face and boom 20k Radiant Destruction on death recap.

This is correct, and the same is true in many other situations with many other skills. I have yet to see or encounter reason to feel Radiant and its morphs are overpowered at all. In fact, I often boggle at why I rarely see Templars run the life drain morph for PVP, and in the next breath complain about lack of survivability....

If you are talking about Radiant Glory (the healing 20% of damage morph), I ran that for a few days to see if it was any good. The only time the heal was worth much of anything was when the target was in execute range and you are getting 5k+ tics of damage, however at that point it was pretty much not necessary to have a heal since the target was going down anyway. Also, a decent Templar will never use a 3.5s channel skill when they are low on health unless they are looking to die.

I found that the extra 40% damage you get from Radiant Oppression was simply better, since that 40% is valuable at all times and makes Radiant Oppression somewhat more useful outside of execute range, whereas Radiant Glory was just absolutely abysmal outside of execute range.

Also, not sure if you know this, but you will never see "Radiant Glory" on a death recap, the skill is only ever reported as "Radiant Destruction". The "Radiant Glory" portion shows up as a heal on the Templars sheets, but the target will never see that. Same deal for Radiant Oppression, it only shows up as "Radiant Destruction".

ThatHappyCat wrote: »

If a Templar is using Radiant Destruction then they're magicka-based, in which case they can Breath of Life themselves to full in one or two casts anyway. Which makes ZOS's insistence on adding self-healing to a bunch of magicka Templar skills rather mystifying.

I'm aware, but I watch everyone's health bar that is in any fighting related to me, not just my own. I tend to notice heals coming in or out, and damage et al. It's fairly obvious if someone, especially in a 1on1 trying to attack someone to finish them off, if they're being healed. Also, you're overlooking that Radiant Oppression's damage scales against how much magicka you have remaining, and as a channel it leaves you extremely vulnerable to an easy stun from a simple character-innate bash attack, crushing shock, or venom arrow, not only interrupting you but leaving you off balance with a nearly three second stun, and taking about 50% from the next heavy attack that lands on you as well as knocked down if it is done before that timeframe (including if you spend a large stamina amount to CC break it).

I'll go check the scaling on magicka and spell power on the skill, but for a nightblade using funnel health, you can get it to be healing you for strong amounts while also dealing a large amount of outgoing damage at the same time (despite being only a 25% damage portion as an HoT returned to you, because it can be an initial hit crit, and the HoT itself can crit as well. In a basic magicka Nightblade leech build I recently tested out, FunneL health would average around 2400 healing per second over the course of a 30 second fight, varying depending on critical luck or lack thereof (the testing stats included a moderately high crit rate of 48%). The same would be true of the healing morph of the Templar's execute (Glory). Unless it scales drastically poorly compared to Funnel Health, you likely are simply not running enough damage stats and other supporting factors in your build.


EDIT: To follow this up, here is the info on a Templar build-out I plotted out and made on PTS:


Statistics while zoned inside of Cyrodiil under the Battle Spirit buff (rounded) with NO champion points in Thamaturge (which scales up to 25% higher Magic Damage with 100 points into it, but won't be feasible to push that high until you are at champion rank 360. Realistically, your average high-end player can currently use 30 points in the mage for elfborn, and then 70 in thamaturge, as that gives you the spell critical chance, an amplifier for the crit part of your damage and healing, and then 70 points (~19.2%, off the top of my head) higher damage for Magic/Poison/Disease:

Race: High Elf
Health: 20,500
Magicka: 43,400
Stamina: 13,450
Spell Power: 2,270
Spell Crit Chance: 42%

Radiant Glory
Base Cost: 4069 Magicka (Excluding all cost reductions)
Burn an enemy with a ray of holy fire, dealing 13888 (NOTE: This would be 16,555 with 70 points in Thamaturge) Magic Damage over 2.5 seconds and healing you for 20% of the damage inflicted.
Low health targets take up to 330% additional damage.


Radiant Oppression
Base Cost: 4069 Magicka (Excluding all cost reductions)
Burn an enemy with a ray of holy fire, dealing 13888 (NOTE: This would be 16,555 with 70 points in Thamaturge) Magic Damage over 2.5 seconds. Deals up to 40% additional damage in proportion to your current Magicka.
Low health targets take up to 330% additional damage.


Those were the results. Radiant deals its damage equally across all damage ticks in that two and a half second timespan. Thanks to being a channel, it calculates its critical success on every tick, so you can realistically assume a smoother curve in the overall amount of times it will crit when cast just once or twice than a single-hit attack.

With a 42% critical chance across two full casts of this skill, you can assume on average you will deal the following damage against an unmitigated target with the already-described champion allocation of 30 Elfborn and 70 Thamaturge:

((16555) + ((((16555 * 0.5) * 1.104)) * 0.42)) * 2)

The result of this formula is an average of 20,393 damage dealt total per cast before mitigation, times two casts results in 40,786 unmitigated damage excluding the scaling 40% portion based on your current magicka remaining unused. In this 5-piece light armor build, using the Apprentice mundus stone and a nirnhoned set of weaponry, against an enemy with 37,500 spell resistance (which requires a heavy armor user with 1-2 nirnhoned items, or a light armor user with 3-4 nirnhoned items with 5-piece light, 1 heavy, and 1 medium item), you will deal approximately 32% less damage after your penetration and ignore are calculated. This results in a final expected average of 27,734 damage, and your healing would be a seperate 20% of that onto you for a heal of 5,500 over 5 seconds.
___________________
Long story short: @danno8 and @ThatHappyCat, you're actually correct that the healing amount is too low to be practically useful, let alone in comparison to the damage addition you gain with the other morph of Radiant even if you are at half of your max magicka (20% extra damage). @ZOS_BrianWheeler, this is another example of numbers needing to be tweaked. Even factoring for a roughly 7.5% higher healing result factor if investing for 5% outgoing healing dealt and 5% incoming healing received from the champion system, the current worthlessness of the healing Radiant morph simply doesn't change.

If the health restoration were, hypothetically, 60% of the damage dealt (or in other words, 150% of the maximum damage you could be adding with the damage morph, as a heal modifier), that would be a compelling choice between dealing the extra damage at a variable level, or getting 16,500 health back over 5 seconds (~3300 hp/s) while dealing damage out. As-is, it's not really one at all.

Attorneyatlawl

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

Jesus beam ruins your chance to come out on top in a 1vX.
Jesus beam every once in a while will do 100% to dead.
Jesus beam is fire based even though the tool tip says magic damage.
Jesus is unavoidable damage, unlike any other execute in the game you don't have to time it through a dodge roll.

Counters, block and massive magicka shields. Goodluck to anyone who doesn't have them.

Ah, is it? I noticed that Backlash was fire damage too even though it claims magicka . Guess that's one more argument for my newer live Templar being a Dark Elf was a good choice . In that case, scratch the Thamaturge mention in my previous post and choo choo to Elemental damage boosts !

Have you checked as to whether Dark Flare is magicka damage or fire? @cozmon3c_ESO? I remember back in beta it specified fire... but I don't know if that is the case nowadays as the tooltip at least claims it is magicka.