[idea] Don't get rid of veteran ranks

Kahrgan

There is just simply too many things that scale on them that the conversion would be a nightmare, and ZoS could utilize that time on other areas of the game.

Just make them easier to get so that newer players aren't so overwhelmed.

Mahedros

No.

Alphashado

Kahrgan wrote: »

There is just simply too many things that scale on them that the conversion would be a nightmare, and ZoS could utilize that time on other areas of the game.

Just make them easier to get so that newer players aren't so overwhelmed.

This is why they should just convert V1-V14 to lvl 50-63 and reduce the XP required so it's normal XP and not VR XP. You would be lvl 63 (level capped) at roughly the same amount of time it takes to get to V2-V3 currently. All of the gear would stay the same, all the crafting components would be the same. The only thing they would have to change is the text on the gear from "requires VR14" to "requires lvl 63".

If they were to do it that way and make Silver/Gold optional, the entire conversion would be easy peasy. People would be able to reach the level cap in a reasonable amount of time after completing the main story and all the gear would still work.

Roechacca

I'm still in doubt they ever will remove them . Remember they said they were not going to go away till their absolutely certain how to do it without problems . Just by judging every patch and update so far , that's the same as saying never in lawyers lingo .

Cody

no, get rid of them. this game is turning into too much of a grind; I play to have fun, not spend most of my time grinding.

Sacadon

Oh no. The progression system is now the Champion system not VR. Regardless of it being good/bad, no turning back now from a ZOS investment perspective. This is one of those full comitt things.

Shlankwald

I'd be gone if they were to remain. Its the main reason I originally unsubbed.

TheLaw

"Don't get rid of veteran ranks because it takes too much work, who cares about the game." This is a terrible idea.

NoRefunds

it simply takes too much time to get to vet14, its like 2-3 times the time to get to 50, that makes no sense and makes it almost impossible to level up alts without grinding for weeks, which is extremely boring

Pausekey

Lol half the responses basically repeat what the OP wants, yet at the same time say they disagree. He said make them easier to attain, so basically make them like going to level 63.

From what I gathered his complaint with removing them is that they have so much tied to certain VR ranks that it would take a complete overhaul of the system to remove them, when all most people want is faster leveling.

And if they did remove them entirely and make 50 cap, how would they gate gear and crafting? Would they rescale the whole system? Would they tie it CP? I can see that going well. Instead of grinding to VR14 for great gear now we only have to grind to ~3000 CP. Yes, so much better than vet ranks....

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO

You level from 1 to 50 so fast its stupid, and so easy its boring. Only when you get to vet levels do you begin to feel that you are actually doing anything to gain levels.

I would love to see the game keep them.

Ffastyl

The reason ZOS is replacing the Veteran Ranks with the Champion System over several phases is because of what the OP mentioned: There's a crap ton of itemization and number changes to make. This is also why ZOS has pushed back the date of VR removal to sometime after console launch (according to last ETA). They also added more work for themselves by adding VR10 food items to the game with 1.6 so we can be happy(er).

ZOS is not going to reverse their decision, for they are 3/4ths of the way there already and a massive overhaul like this post-launch costs more money than AAA game companies are willing to part with.

Inco

Please MAKE them GO AWAY!! SOONER than later.

I had un-subbed as well after the first VR12 levels and VR13-14 happened in short order.

Hoping they go ahead cause I'm not going to bother grinding VR's.. Did that during the early days and was not fun from VR1 to VR12. Until Craglorn XP crazy grind areas went nuts. LOL

Minack

Their console base will tank just as fast as the PC version did if they don't remove VR.

Alphashado

Minack wrote: »

Their console base will tank just as fast as the PC version did if they don't remove VR.

Agreed. They will have 1 month after console release, tops, before the crud hits the fan so to speak. It won't be the power gamers that raise much of a fuss, it will be the casual players. Once the masses of average console gamers start getting into the mid VR's, that's when they will begin to realize as a community how much they dislike the VR system. And the complaints will really pick up tempo once they begin to level up alts.

Of course by that time, ZoS will have already raked in those box sales. I guess it all depends on how much they value retaining players vs box sale revenue.

Garwulf

I made a thread on exactly the same concept in General Discussion several days ago,

For those against it I am having trouble working out your reasoning. No this would not be a continuance of the current VR grind. Firstly the existing 1 million points per VR level would not exist but rather the same formula that was used to get from level 0 to level 50 (currently VR1). ( level 49 to 50 is about 149k )If you did not see that as a grind then I cannot see how you would find going form level 51 to 63 a problem.
Changing the VR system requires even more work than the current Champion system which was just an add on. The VR system is deeply built into the game. Everything would need to be changed .
Recipes, potions, enchants, raw materials, all armour and weapons whether crafted or dropped etc.
If the champion system is having a hard time being implemented, the removal of VR is going to be a nightmare. I would rather more content than this being revamped.

GrooverGabe

Alphashado wrote: »

Kahrgan wrote: »

There is just simply too many things that scale on them that the conversion would be a nightmare, and ZoS could utilize that time on other areas of the game.

Just make them easier to get so that newer players aren't so overwhelmed.

This is why they should just convert V1-V14 to lvl 50-63 and reduce the XP required so it's normal XP and not VR XP. You would be lvl 63 (level capped) at roughly the same amount of time it takes to get to V2-V3 currently. All of the gear would stay the same, all the crafting components would be the same. The only thing they would have to change is the text on the gear from "requires VR14" to "requires lvl 63".

If they were to do it that way and make Silver/Gold optional, the entire conversion would be easy peasy. People would be able to reach the level cap in a reasonable amount of time after completing the main story and all the gear would still work.

I totally Agree Just make the Vet Levels into Levels if... IF they Must be done a way with but i don't think its a problem as it is either ... what level or how will the endgame content go w/o some sort of post 50 levels/leveleing system

Ace_SiN

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO wrote: »

You level from 1 to 50 so fast its stupid, and so easy its boring. Only when you get to vet levels do you begin to feel that you are actually doing anything to gain levels.

I would love to see the game keep them.

Lmao

Do you have any more of that stuff? It's been a dull day.

Seriously though, vet levels are the main reason so many have left this game and most just laugh it off when you tell them they added even more ranks since launch. Leaving them as is would be the dumbest decision ever made. If ZOS is smart they will have the vet grind fixed by the time this game releases on consoles. If not, say goodbye to any hope of this game recovering.

Pausekey

Ace_SiN wrote: »

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO wrote: »

You level from 1 to 50 so fast its stupid, and so easy its boring. Only when you get to vet levels do you begin to feel that you are actually doing anything to gain levels.

I would love to see the game keep them.

Lmao

Do you have any more of that stuff? It's been a dull day.

Seriously though, vet levels are the main reason so many have left this game and most just laugh it off when you tell them they added even more ranks since launch. Leaving them as is would be the dumbest decision ever made. If ZOS is smart they will have the vet grind fixed by the time this game releases on consoles. If not, say goodbye to any hope of this game recovering.

I hold no love for the Vet system. But this age of freedom that so many envision isn't going to come with the removal of VR ranks.

They nerfed character strength from current VR14 on live, so that a character with 0 CP will grow into their full strength. So all our vet characters just took a big step backwards.

To date it does not seem like XP gains have been increased, so one could assume that XP gains now will be comparable to 1.6

Currently it takes 14 million XP to reach VR14. It will take 360 million to reach the full amount of 3600 CP, assuming you only gain with inspiration buffs active.

So a totally new player is worse off. A returning player with a VR14 is worse off. Now I get it, the CP system offers some new cool things, but by and large it only brings us back up to where current VR14s are now. So we are going from a small hill grind to a mountain grind.

I am not against CP, just the notion that it will save us from a long and tedious grind.

Xelphos

Pausekey wrote: »

Ace_SiN wrote: »

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO wrote: »

You level from 1 to 50 so fast its stupid, and so easy its boring. Only when you get to vet levels do you begin to feel that you are actually doing anything to gain levels.

I would love to see the game keep them.

Lmao

Do you have any more of that stuff? It's been a dull day.

Seriously though, vet levels are the main reason so many have left this game and most just laugh it off when you tell them they added even more ranks since launch. Leaving them as is would be the dumbest decision ever made. If ZOS is smart they will have the vet grind fixed by the time this game releases on consoles. If not, say goodbye to any hope of this game recovering.

I hold no love for the Vet system. But this age of freedom that so many envision isn't going to come with the removal of VR ranks.

They nerfed character strength from current VR14 on live, so that a character with 0 CP will grow into their full strength. So all our vet characters just took a big step backwards.

To date it does not seem like XP gains have been increased, so one could assume that XP gains now will be comparable to 1.6

Currently it takes 14 million XP to reach VR14. It will take 360 million to reach the full amount of 3600 CP, assuming you only gain with inspiration buffs active.

So a totally new player is worse off. A returning player with a VR14 is worse off. Now I get it, the CP system offers some new cool things, but by and large it only brings us back up to where current VR14s are now. So we are going from a small hill grind to a mountain grind.

I am not against CP, just the notion that it will save us from a long and tedious grind.

I have to agree with you, while I didn't leave because of the VR ranks, I left because of the lack of end game content at the time, but anyways, this whole CP system is really making it hard for me to want to play when 1.6 is released. I hate working for something I already worked for, and had. I get the idea of adding all of this progression to keep people busy, but honestly I don't think it was thought out well.

Personally I see a huge nerf within the next 6 months for the CP system as some people will have gotten all 3600 by then, and if it stays the same as it currently is on PTS they will be so overpowered compared to new players it will scare them off. ZeniMax has done nothing but add an even worse grind compared to the Veteran system. 3600 CP as it stands now is about the equivalent to 720 more veteran levels if each CP is 200k EXP. I fail to see how this is better...

Darkintellect

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO wrote: »

You level from 1 to 50 so fast its stupid, and so easy its boring. Only when you get to vet levels do you begin to feel that you are actually doing anything to gain levels.

I would love to see the game keep them.

The majority of the player base doesn't agree with you. The entirety of the players who left because of it vehemently disagree with you. Results are in the link below.

ESO Poll on whether to keep or remove veteran ranks

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO

Ace_SiN wrote: »

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO wrote: »

You level from 1 to 50 so fast its stupid, and so easy its boring. Only when you get to vet levels do you begin to feel that you are actually doing anything to gain levels.

I would love to see the game keep them.

Lmao

Do you have any more of that stuff? It's been a dull day.

Seriously though, vet levels are the main reason so many have left this game and most just laugh it off when you tell them they added even more ranks since launch. Leaving them as is would be the dumbest decision ever made. If ZOS is smart they will have the vet grind fixed by the time this game releases on consoles. If not, say goodbye to any hope of this game recovering.

To me this just sound like more now now now mentality that infest modern mmos. How can there be any sense of achievement if there is no effort involved?

Minack

Achievements come from life, not sitting in front of a videogame like a fat*** crowing about reaching max level.

If ESO were a marathon, the VR system would be the equivalent of a truck driving in front of the runners dropping hurdles, roofing tacks and hot tar, anything to slow down progression.

Most people I know want to "achieve" things after they hit max level and can compete with other players at max level, not feel like they just took a second job.

Kahrgan

Shlankwald wrote: »

I'd be gone if they were to remain. Its the main reason I originally unsubbed.

Sounds like you need to maybe stay gone then? Because if you dont like VRs before CPs, then you wont like CPs even after VRs are gone.

Minack wrote: »

Achievements come from life, not sitting in front of a videogame like a fat*** crowing about reaching max level.

If ESO were a marathon, the VR system would be the equivalent of a truck driving in front of the runners dropping hurdles, roofing tacks and hot tar, anything to slow down progression.

Most people I know want to "achieve" things after they hit max level and can compete with other players at max level, not feel like they just took a second job.

What exactly do you think champion points are? The same thing you're complaining about with VR. I think what's more likely... is that you just want to fast track to the hardest content and get carried or buy all the things you want, then quit or constantly complain because of "no content"

It's a journey, and should remain so. If you don't like it, you probably aren't one to sub after the b2p system anyway. So no loss .

Faugaun

Alphashado wrote: »

Minack wrote: »

Their console base will tank just as fast as the PC version did if they don't remove VR.

Agreed. They will have 1 month after console release, tops, before the crud hits the fan so to speak. It won't be the power gamers that raise much of a fuss, it will be the casual players. Once the masses of average console gamers start getting into the mid VR's, that's when they will begin to realize as a community how much they dislike the VR system. And the complaints will really pick up tempo once they begin to level up alts.

Of course by that time, ZoS will have already raked in those box sales. I guess it all depends on how much they value retaining players vs box sale revenue.

Am I the only one that sees this as a completely invalid statement? Valuation of box sales is irrelevant (in an either/or sense) to valuation of retaining a player base ....the company obviously wants to maximize both not pick one or the other....if anything I would imagine more box sales = more retained players....the real question is does making incredibly long grinds vs no grind vs something in between, generate more long term income (and short term?) in their player base? My guess is something in between (as it usually is) the next step is to figure out exactly where that in between mark lies. Its not preferring box sales over player rentention, the boxes are gonna sell either way...it is a question of what the players decide after the boxes sell....

Father

I believe removing veteran ranks is a good decision. You can roll anything you want and get lvl 50 easily and enjoy all the cp your main gathered, unless they will nerf xp after removing vet ranks.
This way you can make a healer dps or tank alt without thinking about leveling race or getting certain vr14 items or even using some vr food or potions, you can share all of that instead of having different rank food and consumables.

Minack

Kahrgan wrote: »

Shlankwald wrote: »

I'd be gone if they were to remain. Its the main reason I originally unsubbed.

Sounds like you need to maybe stay gone then? Because if you dont like VRs before CPs, then you wont like CPs even after VRs are gone.

Minack wrote: »

Achievements come from life, not sitting in front of a videogame like a fat*** crowing about reaching max level.

If ESO were a marathon, the VR system would be the equivalent of a truck driving in front of the runners dropping hurdles, roofing tacks and hot tar, anything to slow down progression.

Most people I know want to "achieve" things after they hit max level and can compete with other players at max level, not feel like they just took a second job.

What exactly do you think champion points are? The same thing you're complaining about with VR. I think what's more likely... is that you just want to fast track to the hardest content and get carried or buy all the things you want, then quit or constantly complain because of "no content"

It's a journey, and should remain so. If you don't like it, you probably aren't one to sub after the b2p system anyway. So no loss .

Fastrack? I've been playing since closed beta and have multiple VRs. If ZOS listens to people like you they'll be giving this game the ol' Yeller treatment in a year. And LOL, "a journey"? Grow up. MMOs are only a journey to a mental case. It's a game. A game that is supposed to be played with other people, not cloistered in abandoned VR zones trying to work through them.

I would like to level alts and be able to PvP with them without having to spend a month working a second job known as Cadwell's Silver/Gold to get them there. Unlike you, I don't want to be spoonfed "content". I prefer to PvP and create my own.

Judging from past experiences with ZOS changes, The CP system will probably be a failure too, especially if there is no efficient way to earn CP other than Cadwell's, but at least they'll have to acknowledge that VR was a horrible design choice.

c0rp

Putting VR in the game was a bad decision. Leaving them in the game would be an even worse decision. This game is going b2p for a reason. VR is one of them.

McDoogs

Pretty sure they won't remove veteran ranks. Not because they shouldn't, but because they can't.

vovus69

Actually I would prefer if they make like 1000 levels max or something like that and added content when users will go to that levels. 50 lvl is too low. If they cannot get rid of VR - make 50 more VR levels. So it will be 50 lvls normal, 50 lvls VR, when people will get there, make 100 champion levels with 2m exp per level or so, and create content for higher levels with time. That would be awesome.

ferryofacheronub17_ESO

One prospective way would to be just to tie it to champion points, VR14 equipment takes 70 champion points, while VR2 equipment takes 5. As for the attribute points, those could be easily tied into the champion system or removed.

I feel like as if the development team wanted to keep people entertained by providing them endless character progression, but they really underestimated how crazy MMO fans are about working towards their own empowerment. It feels brutal post WoW to go back to the life ruining practices that Everquest in its early days required of you to get the "best" gear at end game. In single player game like Skyrim this is fine, but the second you put other players in a world the human competitive drive occurs and the community is split into the noobs and the pros and the entry fee for entering the realm of informed discussion is quite high atm in ESO.

At first VR was a mistake because it was a stark contrast to what came before, with no teaching or build up. They intended us to group for cadwells silver and gold but that was both awkward in mechanics and awkward in the culture of the game to all of a sudden go social after spending only about 1-5% of the first 40 hours engaging with other players. Now VR is a mistake because the power difference between characters can be so severe that you can only interact with people with the time played that you have till the very end game. The difference between a leveling in blues VR2 and a legendary master weapon VR14 might as well be dozens of levels, and that fact is not well articulated via the "hes only 12 levels a head of me"

That being said I sympathize with those players who actually enjoyed ESO for what it IS and not what they wish it was or the changes coming now. Those who have mastered skill weaving, and put in the 20 hour grind sessions are now going to be faced with a game that not only is throwing away their ESO related education, but throwing away their position on the social hierarchy that is unavoidable when humans collaborate, so while its important the devs change the game for the greater good there is no reason we can't also thank those who actually have supported this game for what it is and allowed the ESO team the experience and data to take it in a different direction.