ZOS F'ed Tanks

Petros

Phase: Adjusted this passive so you will gain Armor and Spell Resistance for three seconds after roll dodging.

Multiple Abilities: "based off your level or rank instead of your maximum health"

"Reduced all item set bonuses to your maximum health to (1.1 * base) from (1.5 * base) to match base stat changes."

So yeah, Tanks are screwed. I'd really like to be taken out to dinner before I get screwed like this.

ginoboehm

Wow you are fast with testing it and judging how it affects your playstyle

Petros

Yeah, I guess ZOS is trying to make tanks not have high health, which sucks. IF these things were the original way and not this new way, I was enchanting with Stam for stam pool, but now....everything feels pointless.

ItsRejectz

wow man, you downloaded it and tested it already?





Didn't think so....

ginoboehm

pete5210b14_ESO wrote: »

Yeah, I guess ZOS is trying to make tanks not have high health, which sucks. IF these things were the original way and not this new way, I was enchanting with Stam for stam pool, but now....everything feels pointless.

Adapt! we are freaking dks what on earth should hurt us in heavy armor? Shields could go away and we would just push armor to hard cap and invest more in magicka and self heals. I have my stamina super low and use a lot of block cost reduction perhaps this is the way to go you have so many options with high magicka

Petros

ItsRejectz wrote: »

wow man, you downloaded it and tested it already?





Didn't think so....

Yep, D/L as soon it was ready, left the client up.

ginoboehm

pete5210b14_ESO wrote: »

ItsRejectz wrote: »

wow man, you downloaded it and tested it already?





Didn't think so....

Yep, D/L as soon it was ready, left the client up.

And you already tested endgame content and now it is impossible to do it?

Petros

ginoboehm wrote: »

pete5210b14_ESO wrote: »

ItsRejectz wrote: »

wow man, you downloaded it and tested it already?





Didn't think so....

Yep, D/L as soon it was ready, left the client up.

And you already tested endgame content and now it is impossible to do it?

Who's talking about End Game content?

ginoboehm

pete5210b14_ESO wrote: »

ginoboehm wrote: »

pete5210b14_ESO wrote: »

ItsRejectz wrote: »

wow man, you downloaded it and tested it already?





Didn't think so....

Yep, D/L as soon it was ready, left the client up.

And you already tested endgame content and now it is impossible to do it?

Who's talking about End Game content?

Because you could tank all other content naked and with a broom instead of sword and shield? What content you did with 1.6.1 is now impossible with 1.6.2?

Gyudan

ginoboehm wrote: »

pete5210b14_ESO wrote: »

ItsRejectz wrote: »

wow man, you downloaded it and tested it already?





Didn't think so....

Yep, D/L as soon it was ready, left the client up.

And you already tested endgame content and now it is impossible to do it?

These are number modifications. They don't require extensive testing to figure out that something changed.

I personally don't like the change from scaling based on max health to a flat value based on character level.
The change to item sets from 1.5*base to 1.1*base makes sense though. It was probably just forgotten when the general modifier was adjusted with update 6 and I'm surprised that it wasn't already fixed in 1.6.1.

NewBlacksmurf

I don't follow what the issue is?

I also don't understand why a tank would run into any problems because of any of these changes unless an unbalanced character is being created.

Petros

I personally don't like the change from scaling based on max health to a flat value based on character level.

I just really don't like this

DeLindsay

ginoboehm wrote: »

Wow you are fast with testing it and judging how it affects your playstyle

Nope, just like 95% of the crying threads for any new content changes all he/she did is read the Patch notes and immediately started a complaint thread without ANY proper testing of any kind.

Jaerlach

pete5210b14_ESO wrote: »

I personally don't like the change from scaling based on max health to a flat value based on character level.

I just really don't like this

Set bonus change was expected. All health premium was reduced. Building needs a little tension. Having everything just incentivize max health doesn't make you make any interesting decisions. Currently you need at least a certain amount of health to tank and after that you have a variety of options: more health, max stam, stam recovery etc.

Having all the tank passives be char level based gives you more options. Having them all be max health based makes max health the clear min max choice. Level based leaves more options available and still let's you stack health if you choose.

Beleron

yay...... AS A TANK... i thought maybe we would be the ones NOT GETTING 1 HIT... in cyrodil.......... guess we weren't getting dominated hard enough?

Beleron

Jaerlach wrote: »

pete5210b14_ESO wrote: »

I personally don't like the change from scaling based on max health to a flat value based on character level.

I just really don't like this

Set bonus change was expected. All health premium was reduced. Building needs a little tension. Having everything just incentivize max health doesn't make you make any interesting decisions. Currently you need at least a certain amount of health to tank and after that you have a variety of options: more health, max stam, stam recovery etc.

Having all the tank passives be char level based gives you more options. Having them all be max health based makes max health the clear min max choice. Level based leaves more options available and still let's you stack health if you choose.

The tanking passives need to be stronger for those whom are built to be tanks. If there scaled off your lvl / rank. There just as strong for those that are glass cannons. YOU MAKE NO SENSE. Tank passives should be stronger with tanky stats / gear. However it makes no difference if you just stack magica and go blow *** up. You get the same tanky bonuses from the passives. So does that mean that if I stack hp, I also get to 1 hit people in cyrodil ? no... well.... aren't you fare.

Beleron

DeLindsay wrote: »

ginoboehm wrote: »

Wow you are fast with testing it and judging how it affects your playstyle

Nope, just like 95% of the crying threads for any new content changes all he/she did is read the Patch notes and immediately started a complaint thread without ANY proper testing of any kind.

The client updates automatically if left open on your desktop. Many have had more than enough time to do a few trials and dungeons.

DeLindsay

Beleron wrote: »

The client updates automatically if left open on your desktop. Many have had more than enough time to do a few trials and dungeons.

Not even remotely what I'd call proper testing. Besides, this.

pete5210b14_ESO wrote: »

Who's talking about End Game content?

EDIT: Just checked PTS 1.6.2 with my VR14 NB, I'm NA so not a Template toon. For PvE the change to Tank Health is less than 700 with my exact same setup as 1.6 when NA had access before, no issue whatsoever there. For Healing I lost ~1K Health, I'm still at a reasonable amount. My DPS setup was the worst hit, I went from just over 21K to less than 18K. I'll have to drop some Magicka in order to get back up at least over 20K (roughly the minimum for Vet Dungeons/Trials) but should be fine as I also changed gear for SD stacking and lost (1) Health set bonus in doing so, ~2200 SD FTW lol.

Also, while checking all of that a fellow Guildee with his VR14 NB was messing around with a sustain-Tank build for Cyro and had 47K Health. As I said previously, people need to properly test things before just crying foul.

Beleron

=/ all i saying is tanks should get tank like bonuses from stacking tank like stats.
just like dps get dps bonuses by stacking dps like stats, they make the skill more effective. Making tank stuff scale off lvl and vr means there just as effective for those stacking dps stats, which is not right.

Trayyacakes

I'm sorry but maybe we come from different MMOs but in every MMO I have ever played just stacking health has not been the best way to go. If you don't have enough magicka/stam to taunt and control other mobs then your health pool doesn't do anything if the mobs gang bang your healer. In PvP if you hit like a wet noodle and can only throw out a few abilities here and there Why would anyone waste time trying to kill you before your group if you can't even annoy them properly. A tank is suppose to be a shield for his group. There are more important things than stacking health.

Beleron

Trayyacakes wrote: »

I'm sorry but maybe we come from different MMOs but in every MMO I have ever played just stacking health has not been the best way to go. If you don't have enough magicka/stam to taunt and control other mobs then your health pool doesn't do anything if the mobs gang bang your healer. In PvP if you hit like a wet noodle and can only throw out a few abilities here and there Why would anyone waste time trying to kill you before your group if you can't even annoy them properly. A tank is suppose to be a shield for his group. There are more important things than stacking health.

This is true. However when you only have magica stamina health. You need things to scale off health so people stacking magica or stamina for dps, dont get the same strength from tank passives and tank skills, that a tank does. No different than a stamina dps gets more weight on there weapon attacks than a magica dps, tanks need to get more weight out of the tank skill and passives than the dps.
Problem is they only have 3 stat pools. Which means you need some things to come from health.

Trayyacakes

Beleron wrote: »

Trayyacakes wrote: »

I'm sorry but maybe we come from different MMOs but in every MMO I have ever played just stacking health has not been the best way to go. If you don't have enough magicka/stam to taunt and control other mobs then your health pool doesn't do anything if the mobs gang bang your healer. In PvP if you hit like a wet noodle and can only throw out a few abilities here and there Why would anyone waste time trying to kill you before your group if you can't even annoy them properly. A tank is suppose to be a shield for his group. There are more important things than stacking health.

This is true. However when you only have magica stamina health. You need things to scale off health so people stacking magica or stamina for dps, dont get the same strength from tank passives and tank skills, that a tank does. No different than a stamina dps gets more weight on there weapon attacks than a magica dps, tanks need to get more weight out of the tank skill and passives than the dps.
Problem is they only have 3 stat pools. Which means you need some things to come from health.

I can agree with this. I am in the court that all damage shields should be based on health, but other than that I'm not sure what you can base off of health in this system.

Petros

Having abilities based off your level or rank instead of your maximum health is a horrid idea.

Phase: Adjusted this passive so you will gain Armor and Spell Resistance for three seconds after roll dodging.
This is no better, the dodge was better, even if it was for 3 secs. Before getting this passive, players should easily get to Hard capped. (Yes, there is still a point that once you reached, any thing more is a waste)

Beleron

mmhmm, you need to build your character for certain abilities to be strong. If you build tanky, tank stuff should be stronger then if you build yourself for damage. Its not a hard concept. Having anything at all scale off of level and rank just means you don't have to build for it, and your handed it. It's lazy, and dumbed down.

paulsimonps

Everyone on the forums keep saying that tanks have been nerfed and that tanks are weak now and oh lord what should we do now. I for one think my build is stronger now then what it was on live and that is not counting with the full CP we got this patch. Not all build will work as they did in 1.5, think outside the box a little. There are more than enough options to get you the result you want, that is to win and not die.

As a DK Dunmer Stamina Tank I have yet to have a problem with anything I have faced so far, still need more testing but I think I will be just fine.

Petros

Has anyone else notice that the Armor ring Enchant was nerfed.

I seem to recall it was 3k ish on 1.6 and 1.6.1

Now it's dropped to 1116?!

DeLindsay

pete5210b14_ESO wrote: »

Has anyone else notice that the Armor ring Enchant was nerfed.

I seem to recall it was 3k ish on 1.6 and 1.6.1

Now it's dropped to 1116?!

Fire Resist got nerfed too. It was over 3K in 1.6 and is now just over 2K, or 3.5% Fire Resistance for a Legendary VR10-14 Glyph. I added up all the Resistance % I could find in the CS (even the full 100 points' value) + 5/7 Light Armor + Fire Glyph and only came up with 45.5% to Fire with a single Glyph. It seems obvious now why ZoS reduced the Fire weakness on Vampires to 40%, because they were planning to nerf the crap out of any way to deal with it. Though I cannot confirm if Fire dmg taken by Vampires using a single Legendary Fire Glyph is worse in 1.6.2 or better (than Live) so it's only my speculation.

Petros

DeLindsay wrote: »

pete5210b14_ESO wrote: »

Has anyone else notice that the Armor ring Enchant was nerfed.

I seem to recall it was 3k ish on 1.6 and 1.6.1

Now it's dropped to 1116?!

Fire Resist got nerfed too. It was over 3K in 1.6 and is now just over 2K, or 3.5% Fire Resistance for a Legendary VR10-14 Glyph. I added up all the Resistance % I could find in the CS (even the full 100 points' value) + 5/7 Light Armor + Fire Glyph and only came up with 45.5% to Fire with a single Glyph. It seems obvious now why ZoS reduced the Fire weakness on Vampires to 40%, because they were planning to nerf the crap out of any way to deal with it. Though I cannot confirm if Fire dmg taken by Vampires using a single Legendary Fire Glyph is worse in 1.6.2 or better (than Live) so it's only my speculation.

All for the sake of balance

Dracane

Tanks and melee's are extreeemly strong, especially with the CPs O.o With CPs, I would even call them overpowered.

likewow777

Dracane wrote: »

Tanks and melee's are extreeemly strong, especially with the CPs O.o With CPs, I would even call them overpowered.

Yeah, I'd have to agree on this. Just installed the new patch and put a bunch of points into various things that reduce this and reduce that. It's my main, so I know how to play her, and I figured a nice test would be doing a Magical Anomaly in Craglorn. I've done several of these, but only ever with a group as the healer, so tanking one by myself was new. I gotta say, I wasn't really straining for resources or near death. In fact, I'd almost call the experience mundane.

Edit: There's a screenshot at the end with damage results, that really doesn't prove anything other than the amount of damage I did in a single battle. Plus it's showing up weird on my computer. Oh well...

Petros

We are not talking about CPs. CPs right now mean nothing. You get 3600 CPs and just upgrade everything to the max, of course you might feel OP.

What I'm talking about is the changes they made to abilities, CP passives, armor sets, and jewelry glyphs.