1.6 how does 3600 CP feel?

Elsonso

technohic wrote: »

It doesn't even matter how long. The point is, eventually it will happen and this is a major roadblock to new players. New players are required to keep an MMO afloat. Especially a non-subscription MMO.

This.

A lot of people think that 3600 CP is an unattainable goal, and I suspect that ZOS will agree since the patch notes say that the game is not even balanced for it.

Either they intend for the next generation of ESO developers to "fix" Champion System in a couple years, or they do not expect that the Champion System will be in use in a couple of years.

My gut instinct says the latter. There is no reason to plan for, or tune, a system that will not reach full potential. It only needs to be tuned across the expected development lifespan of the system.

ZeniMax Media has no track record for developing and maintaining a title over the long term. They spend years developing the title, a couple years actively supporting the title, and then they move on to new projects. Culturally, I expect that the people holding the ESO leash are already impatiently looking at the door. Console is a year late and that year eats into future development.

They did not create ZeniMax Online Studios to be the "Elder Scrolls Online" division. There are other online plans of the same scale and magnitude of ESO and these projects need to be started and released. ZOS will be the one doing them. ESOTU needs to be finished and tucked into bed so that ZOS can move on to other projects. This does not necessarily mean that they will shut down the game right away. It will eventually get no more development attention and will coast on whatever server hardware it needs to support the people playing it.

Berinima

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Berinima wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

So people calling for balance what is your solution? No character progression so a new player can come in and compete in pvp? Hows that going to work? With no reason to do anything people will simply log off.

There are many solutions to the numerous problems that arise with the introduction of this very flawed system. To acquire some insights you could actually read the critical threads regarding the champion system instead of posting "GIMME 1.6 NOW !!!!11" like you do in pretty much all of them.

However, I assume ZOS will not listen anyway. While the system has some good ideas it would need a giant overhaul to be actually working. I assume they don't care enough about the existing playerbase, they care more about the new box sales, the sales of their kittehs, the sales of their horsies... And even if they did, it would be too much work because that would push 1.6 back for at least a couple of months. That's how fundamentally flawed it is.

So in other words you have no solution.

This is honestly what you read there?

TheLaw

3600 champion points feels only slightly better than live. They're drastically reducing our effectiveness and forcing us to re-grind it. A 70cp vs a 3600 ends like it were a lvl 10 vs a lvl 50.

sput4ueb17_ESO

We will end up like those skeletons you see lying on the rocks all around Tamriel.... but with still some points to earn ...lol

prototypefb

if current system will go live game will see MAJOR influx of bots 24/7 farming mobs for xp-CP.
This will serverly increase server loads/lattency/freezes/lag spikes/crashes game will be problematic to play, all decent grindspots will be covered by bot parties, yes game will feel more alive but at what cost?

STOP upcoming madness, need to change way CP are going to be earned!
grind is not the answer!

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

prototypefb wrote: »

if current system will go live game will see MAJOR influx of bots 24/7 farming mobs for xp-CP.
This will serverly increase server loads/lattency/freezes/lag spikes/crashes game will be problematic to play, all decent grindspots will be covered by bot parties, yes game will feel more alive but at what cost?

STOP upcoming madness, need to change way CP are going to be earned!
grind is not the answer!

Every one of those bots etc are all paying customers to ZOS.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

I still dont see any viable solutions to the "problem". Character progression happens in all MMOs. Its why we play the game. New people coming in will not be able to compete in pvp most likely until they hit vr10 minimum anyways. Right now its gear and stat points separating players. What solution do we have besides "it sucks get rid of it"?

WebBull

So if VR14 is 70 CP, what VR level is 3600CP?

Mantic0r3

WebBull wrote: »

So if VR14 is 70 CP, what VR level is 3600CP?

you get 70 cp for beeing vr14 but they are not equal in strength vr 14 should be ~360 or so

Father

Dracane wrote: »

I'm happy, that 3600 CP are almost impossible to reach in reality.

The game feels horrible with 3600 points. Sorcerer is so dead and melee's are totally overpowered.
This is no QQing, this is sad reality ! I am soooo glad, this is only PTS and on live, we are never going to see 3600 CP.

You don't really need 3600 to be OP like the way things go right now. remember u need 120 cp for unlocking all passives in a constellation.

Berinima

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

I still dont see any viable solutions to the "problem". Character progression happens in all MMOs. Its why we play the game. New people coming in will not be able to compete in pvp most likely until they hit vr10 minimum anyways. Right now its gear and stat points separating players. What solution do we have besides "it sucks get rid of it"?

Since you are refusing to actually read the threads you are posting in... Here are some solutions to several problems... You could:

- Introduce a scaled XP requirement (Example: first CP is granted at 1000 XP, that scales up to ZOS 400k value over time).
- Limit the amount of CP one can gain over a certain time frame (per week or per month for example).
- Remove or alter that limit for new players.
- Remove or expand the three day limit for the enlightenment mechanic.
- Remove the constraint to XP altogether so CPs are gained for "interacting with the world" instead of grinding XP.

These are only some examples how the system could be reworked and if you actually read the numerous threads regarding this topic you will find that different even more sophisticated models have been suggested by many members of the community.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

Berinima wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

I still dont see any viable solutions to the "problem". Character progression happens in all MMOs. Its why we play the game. New people coming in will not be able to compete in pvp most likely until they hit vr10 minimum anyways. Right now its gear and stat points separating players. What solution do we have besides "it sucks get rid of it"?

Since you are refusing to actually read the threads you are posting in... Here are some solutions to several problems... You could:

- Introduce a scaled XP requirement (Example: first CP is granted at 1000 XP, that scales up to ZOS 400k value over time).
- Limit the amount of CP one can gain over a certain time frame (per week or per month for example).
- Remove or alter that limit for new players.
- Remove or expand the three day limit for the enlightenment mechanic.
- Remove the constraint to XP altogether so CPs are gained for "interacting with the world" instead of grinding XP.

These are only some examples how the system could be reworked and if you actually read the numerous threads regarding this topic you will find that different even more sophisticated models have been suggested by many members of the community.

#1 solution does nothing to change the fact after a year or so vets will be far ahead CP-wise.

#2 Again this wont help anything. Fact is vets will still be ahead of new players. Also people are not happy being restricted in this way.

#3 so you tell a guy been working on his character for a year that some newb can come in and wipe the floor with him after 2 weeks.

#4 everyone should have the same enlightenment not just new players.

#5 is just silly. What else will you use to earn CP besides XP?

These are all silly "solutions" with no basis inr eality nor do they fix the supposed problem of vets being more powerful than newbs.

Berinima

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

#1 solution does nothing to change the fact after a year or so vets will be far ahead CP-wise.

However, it's much easier to catch up without a scaled XP requirement and therefore a better system.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

#2 Again this wont help anything. Fact is vets will still be ahead of new players. Also people are not happy being restricted in this way.

But by doing that you gate the progression of hardcore grinders to a maximum gain, that again makes it easier to catch up (especially in conjunction with #1) and balancing new content becomes easier.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

#3 so you tell a guy been working on his character for a year that some newb can come in and wipe the floor with him after 2 weeks.

The more fitting phrasing would be: "The power gap is being handled".

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

#4 everyone should have the same enlightenment not just new players.

You failed to read the point correctly. Removing the enlightenment limit for everybody.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

#5 is just silly. What else will you use to earn CP besides XP?

Right now crafting and collecting does not grant XP. That causes the problem that not every playstyle is rewarded the same.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

These are all silly "solutions" with no basis inr eality nor do they fix the supposed problem of vets being more powerful than newbs.

They are not silly, you are just not capable of understanding them. I mean, I get it. You probably have a lot of time, I assume you go to school and want to grind your balls off to annihilate newbies with your... Skill. That's cool. These systems appeal to people like you. But that's why they are bad for the health of the game.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Flaming]

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

I dont even have one character max level. Fact is not one of your solutions would help matters at all. Only prolong it. Fact is new people coming in wont be able to compete at first with people who have been here longest. Thats just how it is regardless of the system.
[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Flaming]

Berinima

I have not claimed that it is possible to entirely solve the problem. I have however claimed that it is a) possible to make it a lot easier for new players to catch up and b) that this would be neccessary to keep the game healthy.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

I think most people coming into a new mmo after its been out for some time realize they wont be able to compete right out of the box. CP as you add points gives diminishing returns.
[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Flaming]

Berinima

Of course it's a fact. For example, if the first hundred levels of the CS have the requirement of only 1000 XP instead of 400k it's easier to catch up. If you fail to even comprehend that, then that's not my problem. That being said, you have the full right to not like these suggestions. That's cool with me. But guess what, that's only your opinion then and not a fact.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

The fact remains your ideas wont work. They are not feasible. They do not make any sense. In MMOs new people will need to earn their way like everyone else before them did. Once they do they will get a feeling of accomplishment.

You wont be able to come in as a new player and in a few days compete with people who have been here for a year or more. Its just that simple.

trimsic_ESO

In WOW, the difference between a player who started the game several years ago and a player who starts the game right now is HUGE. It's 100x or maybe 1000x the magnitude you can see on the PTS between a player who has 3600 CP and a player who has no CP at all.

If I had to start a new character now in WOW, does this mean it would take me years to fill the gap with the old players? No, it would take me a few weeks.

The Champion System is fine. Solutions exist to reduce the gap between new players and the veteran ones. Solutions also exist to reduce the gap between the hardcore gamers and the casual ones.

ZOS_TristanK

Hi, folks. We've removed several comments from this thread that were beginning to take the topic off it's tracks. Keep in mind that it's never appropriate to resort to personal jabs on the forums. Thank you for your understanding.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

trimsic_ESO wrote: »

In WOW, the difference between a player who started the game several years ago and a player who starts the game right now is HUGE. It's 100x or maybe 1000x the magnitude you can see on the PTS between a player who has 3600 CP and a player who has no CP at all.

If I had to start a new character now in WOW, does this mean it would take me years to fill the gap with the old players? No, it would take me a few weeks.

The Champion System is fine. Solutions exist to reduce the gap between new players and the veteran ones. Solutions also exist to reduce the gap between the hardcore gamers and the casual ones.

Really this is blown out of proportion anyways. If you put 3600 points into your character you are putting tank skills into your ranged guy. Healing skills into your nightblade. Really pointless to invest all those points. I think this is a big to do about nothing.

helediron

200 points make a certain build okay. About 400 points gets you close to what 3600 ever gives. At around 300 i had to start put points to rather unnecessary buffs in some constellation.

Offtopic: So i tried Master Gatherer and now i am hopelessly hooked forever...

Sarousse

3600 cp -> yersterday on pts I spent half an jour hitting a perma blocking guy and his hp were barely moving. Then 3 friends joined in and started biting on him, and his hp didn't move either.

Tried to use fear but he insta broke out of it with no stamina problem.

Thanks to the champion system, you Can welcome perma invulnerability in TESO.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

mislucb16_ESO wrote: »

3600 cp -> yersterday on pts I spent half an jour hitting a perma blocking guy and his hp were barely moving. Then 3 friends joined in and started biting on hum, and his hp didn't move either.

Tried to use fear but he insta broke out of it with no stamina problem.

Thanks to the champion system, you Can welcome perma invulnerability in TESO.

You know this was due to the champ system and WAI how?

Sarousse

Because after this I tried to build one (did a NB) and asked my friends to try to damage me and LOLed@them while spamming ae life drain.

You want a shortlist ?
- block cost reduction
- damage reduction
- stam, magicka reduction on skills
- crit spell on 3 successive blocks (Hi Crit heal)
-armor and resists @very high rate (no softcap dues to 1.6, stats going higher with champion system)
- etc...

The block cost is way too low after puting the right enchants + champion system, allowing dumb things like this one on PTS.

Teargrants

mislucb16_ESO wrote: »

The block cost is way too low after puting the right enchants + champion system, allowing dumb things like this one on PTS.

Not really, this is the main culprit for all your complaints:

Unchained: Reduce the stamina cost of abilities by 80% for 8 seconds after breaking free from a stun, knockdown, fear, disorient or stagger.

Stack heavy armor + way of the arena on top of that, and let the lulz begin.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

You guys probably think the 40k dmg two handed is working as intended too. Lets see what happens before we panic shall we?

Pyatra

I tried a Magicka Sorc and a Melee sorc. 3600CP

Trying the Magicka Sorc: "Oh wow this is definitely easier, can't solo all the trials the Templars are but hey that must be because they have heals they can slot on their damage bars."

Trying the Stamina Sorc (No bugs or exploits used), also no class skills:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbrII7frHV0

Sarousse

Hehe, missed this one. I hope devs will fix that on next patch.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

Also guys you cant judge everything based on having 3600 CP. Will take years for people to even come close to it.