1.6 how does 3600 CP feel?

NukeAllTheThings

360-400 is where you will see a pretty big gap in strength start to emerge and it won't take too terribly long to reach. So, in about 3 months new players stand no chance whatsoever.

Tankqull

madangrypally wrote: »

Lets consider how long this will likely take:
3600 Champion Points.
Lets assume 400k per champion point.
Lets assume enlightenment bonus is 1 champion point per day.
Lets assume the optimal exp per hour is 200k.
Lets assume 12.5 hours per day playing while earning optimal exp.

Therefore: 1 day a player will earn 7 Champion Points.
Playing every day with the above it would take 504 days to cap if starting with 70 champion points.

Even if there is an even more extreme player then the above I seriously doubt they will earn the full 3600 Champion Points in less then a year. I would also doubt their sanity if they earned them all in less then 2 years.
========================================

But wait what about cash shop enlightenment pots. Lets assume these are in the cash shop at the following values:

1 enlightenment pot = 1 champion point worth of exp bonus. (IE: 100k = 400k)

Now lets assume there is no cap on usage. This will greatly increase the overall time required to cap the full 3600 champion points.

Lets assume the optimal exp per hour is 200k.
Lets assume 12.5 hours per day playing while earning optimal exp.
Lets assume the player is always under enlightenment through cash shop purchases.

It would take 141 days to earn the full 3600 champion points.
=======================================

The above was extremes though likely not the most extreme a few will attempt. I also doubt ZoS allows the cash shop experience boost to be used without some type of cooldowns.

not trying to destroy your bubble but without enlightment i was able to get a CP in 98minutes. and from past expiriences the really hardcore freaks were gettin the same xp in ~50% of my times. so you can assume safely even without enlightment some guys will only need a hour per CP.
with your enlightment buff from the cashshop this will lead to 37.5 days of play time till 3600 cp have been reached. with 15hours of playtime(normal for those peps) that would be exactly 60 days after release of the CP system.

Nivzruo_ESO

Tankqull wrote: »

madangrypally wrote: »

Lets consider how long this will likely take:
3600 Champion Points.
Lets assume 400k per champion point.
Lets assume enlightenment bonus is 1 champion point per day.
Lets assume the optimal exp per hour is 200k.
Lets assume 12.5 hours per day playing while earning optimal exp.

Therefore: 1 day a player will earn 7 Champion Points.
Playing every day with the above it would take 504 days to cap if starting with 70 champion points.

Even if there is an even more extreme player then the above I seriously doubt they will earn the full 3600 Champion Points in less then a year. I would also doubt their sanity if they earned them all in less then 2 years.
========================================

But wait what about cash shop enlightenment pots. Lets assume these are in the cash shop at the following values:

1 enlightenment pot = 1 champion point worth of exp bonus. (IE: 100k = 400k)

Now lets assume there is no cap on usage. This will greatly increase the overall time required to cap the full 3600 champion points.

Lets assume the optimal exp per hour is 200k.
Lets assume 12.5 hours per day playing while earning optimal exp.
Lets assume the player is always under enlightenment through cash shop purchases.

It would take 141 days to earn the full 3600 champion points.
=======================================

The above was extremes though likely not the most extreme a few will attempt. I also doubt ZoS allows the cash shop experience boost to be used without some type of cooldowns.

not trying to destroy your bubble but without enlightment i was able to get a CP in 98minutes. and from past expiriences the really hardcore freaks were gettin the same xp in ~50% of my times. so you can assume safely even without enlightment some guys will only need a hour per CP.
with your enlightment buff from the cashshop this will lead to 37.5 days of play time till 3600 cp have been reached. with 15hours of playtime(normal for those peps) that would be exactly 60 days after release of the CP system.

You can bet the world that those types of guys are also the ones that will find a glitch/bug grinding spot that can crank a few CP in 10-15 mins. So calculate all you want, but someone will be maxed in a week.

technohic

It doesn't even matter how long. The point is, eventually it will happen and this is a major roadblock to new players. New players are required to keep an MMO afloat. Especially a non-subscription MMO.

This game is going to cash in on initial sales to PC players who are against pay to play and console TES fanatics to cut their losses and be ready to just close up shop having made thier money. They are not after staying power here.

Teargrants

80% reduced stam costs for 8 sec after CC break...Way of the Arena, here I come!

Dmg shield for 50% of my HP when I press block, I am Bubble Boy!

Yeah, I think I know where all the sweet rolls, skooma and moon surgar went.

Lukas-Kerstingb16_ESO

Just did Vet DSA Solo with my Stamina NB... want that 3800CP on live

Mantic0r3

Lukas-Kerstingb16_ESO wrote: »

Just did Vet DSA Solo with my Stamina NB... want that 3800CP on live

did u use that two handed bug thats going around? (maybe not knowingly but still would be important )

Lionxoft

Teargrants wrote: »

80% reduced stam costs for 8 sec after CC break...Way of the Arena, here I come!

Dmg shield for 50% of my HP when I press block, I am Bubble Boy!

Yeah, I think I know where all the sweet rolls, skooma and moon surgar went.

Exactly. Stam abilities are pretty much free after a cc break and stam regen's faster than the cost of break free. GG. I like the effect this could have on heavy armor. Yes, extremely OP but still interesting.

I'd love to know who was in charge of creating these passives and whether or not they RP as a Khajiit in real life similar to so many others.

Xsorus

The 80% reduced stamina cost after CC break will make Heavy Armor incredibly good

They also buffed recovery on drinks as well, it now gives 350 to like each stat.

Lukas-Kerstingb16_ESO

Mantic0r3 wrote: »

Lukas-Kerstingb16_ESO wrote: »

Just did Vet DSA Solo with my Stamina NB... want that 3800CP on live

did u use that two handed bug thats going around? (maybe not knowingly but still would be important )

Used Grimm focus, momentum, blur, evil hunter and death mark spaming brawl

Mantic0r3

Lukas-Kerstingb16_ESO wrote: »

Mantic0r3 wrote: »

Lukas-Kerstingb16_ESO wrote: »

Just did Vet DSA Solo with my Stamina NB... want that 3800CP on live

did u use that two handed bug thats going around? (maybe not knowingly but still would be important )

Used Grimm focus, momentum, blur, evil hunter and death mark spaming brawl

I dont know what triggers it, but you surely must have seen if your hitting for 100k+ a pop

madangrypally

Nivzruo_ESO wrote: »

You can bet the world that those types of guys are also the ones that will find a glitch/bug grinding spot that can crank a few CP in 10-15 mins. So calculate all you want, but someone will be maxed in a week.

Sadly you are likely right.

ZoS could add a daily champion point cap to prevent this exploits and abusing game mechanics. IE: A daily Champion Point cap of: 6 Champion Points

Magdalina

xMovingTarget wrote: »

Lionxoft wrote: »

It's broken. The champion system will create a wall for newer players down the road. This isn't just a "Veteran of the game" type buff... This is a "I will demolish you and take your lunch money" difference.

Some of these passives have me wondering what they were thinking and which substance was used. Skooma maybe? Hist sap?

420, just that

With maxed champ you can literally ignore everything red. Its ridiculous. Too bad i cant yet check it on a good char with good gear. =( sucki EU Player here

If you need any gear crafted, let me know. I'm NA and I certainly don't care how many stacks of her endless mats my char spends on pts for the sake of testing lol. Up to 9 traits in most.

Damn, I'm not home and can't test right now but this is certainly gonna be a fun evening XD

It might be interesting to test 70 vs say 360 vs 3600. If OP line is at 3600, well, that's probably far away not to start freaking out but if it's at say 360 (which it probably is), we will have a problem.

Oughash

Teargrants wrote: »

80% reduced stam costs for 8 sec after CC break...Way of the Arena, here I come!

Dmg shield for 50% of my HP when I press block, I am Bubble Boy!

Yeah, I think I know where all the sweet rolls, skooma and moon surgar went.

Like I said when they first released the CP constellations: the sw/sh light armor DK will be back, and better that it ever was. Give it a couple of weeks for people to grind out the CPs, then the QQing will truly begin.

McDoogs

3600 is extremely excessive, because you are adding in things that you don't use in your build (like 100 points in reducing bash cost for a ranged dps as an example).

However, the gap between a new vet and a character with 4-500 CP well-distributed is going to be huge. Large power gaps with steep grinds always kills games.

I'm not even very hardcore anymore and I grinded a character on a fresh account from lvl1 to VR14 in a little over 5 days /played. It is not going to take all that long to grind out a few hundred CP to get a couple of good tree bonuses to directly benefit my build...

trimsic_ESO

Lionxoft wrote: »

It's broken. The champion system will create a wall for newer players down the road. This isn't just a "Veteran of the game" type buff... This is a "I will demolish you and take your lunch money" difference.

Some of these passives have me wondering what they were thinking and which substance was used. Skooma maybe? Hist sap?

This is not the way it's implemented in MMOs. In general, in the long term, new comers are granted a buff so they can reduce the gap with the veteran players quite rapidly. Similar systems are also in place in many games to reduce the gap between the hardcore gamers and the casual gamers. So, while I understand your concerns, it's too early to worry about this problem.

I have tried a VR14 template yesterday with the 3600 CP, and I've been pleased to see that it makes an important difference when we have all these CP. This is a great source of motivation for me to continue playing my character in this game.

Now, what could be done to improve the champion system is to implement a season system. For instance, they could release 1.6 with a 600 CP cap. Let's call it Tier 1. At some point in the future, they could release a version with a CP cap raised to 1200 CP. Let's call it Tier 2. When this Tier 2 is released, the XP required to gain 1 CP in Tier 1 is considerably reduced. Therefore, people still in Tier 1 can quickly fill the gap, reach Tier 2 and be more competitive. The same system can and put in place for the stuff.

As I said it earlier, this Tier system is quite common in MMOs, and quite fair in my opinion. It's up to ZOS to decide whether or not they want to implement it.

Father

what it feels??? god mode ?? immortal ??? I did AA first boss for 20k dps in 142 sec fight

GaldorP

I think 3600 points is a bit too much. I always assumed 360 was going to be the max >< With 3600 you really don't need to make a choice anymore, you can simply max every single champion ability there is. I'd rather have a system where your choices matter.

Alphashado

I haven't tested 3600 myself yet, but based on this thread, It sounds pretty OP.

Remember that ZoS made a preemptive P.R move by stating this in the patch notes.


""The maximum system limit of 3,600 Champion Points will now be awarded to the Character Template to allow for more testing of the Champion System.

Note: This will cause PvE content to become easier than it was originally balanced for, and is not the intended balance of the system.""

I find this very interesting. ZoS clearly understands how powerful 3600 CP is in relation to the current content structure. But I can't help but wonder how they intend to balance it?

They can't just wait 6 months and make the content harder to match people with higher amounts of CP because that would totally screw new/casual players.

Unless...

Paul Sage on Crown Store: "Obviously, we want to offer items people want and that there is a demand for. What we don’t want to do is only offer the best items – items which grant players clear numerical advantages over other players – on our store. When we talk about convenience items, what we generally mean is items which allow people to reduce the time it might take to acquire something they want. I think cosmetic items speak for themselves. We know there is a fine line, but there is also a line where we feel like if you buy something from the store it should have value."

The only other way they could "balance" future content to match 3600 CP w/o shafting new/casual players would be a massive nerf to the CS.

My point is, don't be surprised to see some kind of major CP booster in the Crown Store.

Faugaun

I can currently hit 600k exp per hour..so with out enlightenment its 45 min per CP or 18 CP per day in the simulated 12 hour play day (I am not the fastest and know players that can do significantly faster than me).

I bet its possible with enlightened on all the time (if crown store item is offered). To get 10 CP per hour sustained.

Ommamar

m.stollb16_ESO wrote: »

I think 3600 points is a bit too much. I always assumed 360 was going to be the max >< With 3600 you really don't need to make a choice anymore, you can simply max every single champion ability there is. I'd rather have a system where your choices matter.

The 3600 is on test it will take awhile to get there on live once it is released. As for how it feels with all 3600 a huge difference I have played my VR4 with both the 70 initial points and now the 3600 on test. I didn't get to pvp but in pve I was killing it. Soloing Craglorn with no problem, 6 wasps?! I laughed in glee to watch you fall in a matter of seconds. I did the nonveteran pledge yesterday before I logged with minimal effort, the bosses I had to pay attention but the "trash" mobs where easy. This was without the Templar Dawn of Wrath heavy hitting skill.

A couple things I did notice when I took a level 45 to AvA someone hit me with wrecking blow for 10680 which by the recap was double what all the other skills showed. By the sounds of it is a likely bug that caused that massive burst. Shields are going to be the new weapon of choice, stacking sun shield with the block shield is very powerful. Add in the bash passive you get from the champion system and it is a very effective way to play.

As to how this will roll out for new players, I don't think it is going to change much. If you go against a VR14 while not being at least VR12 you are going to come out on the losing end 999 out a 10000. I do think that the award of a champion point every time you gain a level from 1-50 would be a good idea. It would give a new VR1/50 level a little bit of a boost once they enter the end game.

Faugaun

Ommamar wrote: »

As to how this will roll out for new players, I don't think it is going to change much. If you go against a VR14 while not being at least VR12 you are going to come out on the losing end 999 out a 10000. I do think that the award of a champion point every time you gain a level from 1-50 would be a good idea. It would give a new VR1/50 level a little bit of a boost once they enter the end game.

No no no...I would level from 3-10 over and over (well maybe not me but someone) racking up CP, you can do the first 10 levels very quickly....now maybe if you started getting exp towards the 400k for CP even on sub VR characters then that might be a fine idea...

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

So people calling for balance what is your solution? No character progression so a new player can come in and compete in pvp? Hows that going to work? With no reason to do anything people will simply log off.

WillhelmBlack

With a bit of practice I was soloing resources.

Dracane

I'm happy, that 3600 CP are almost impossible to reach in reality.

The game feels horrible with 3600 points. Sorcerer is so dead and melee's are totally overpowered.
This is no QQing, this is sad reality ! I am soooo glad, this is only PTS and on live, we are never going to see 3600 CP.

Gilvoth

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

With a bit of practice I was soloing resources.

here is a patch note:
1.6.2

Champion System

General
The maximum system limit of 3,600 Champion Points will now be awarded to the Character Template to allow for more testing of the Champion System.
Note: This will cause PvE content to become easier than it was originally balanced for, and is not the intended balance of the system.

Berinima

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

So people calling for balance what is your solution? No character progression so a new player can come in and compete in pvp? Hows that going to work? With no reason to do anything people will simply log off.

There are many solutions to the numerous problems that arise with the introduction of this very flawed system. To acquire some insights you could actually read the critical threads regarding the champion system instead of posting "GIMME 1.6 NOW !!!!11" like you do in pretty much all of them.

However, I assume ZOS will not listen anyway. While the system has some good ideas it would need a giant overhaul to be actually working. I assume they don't care enough about the existing playerbase, they care more about the new box sales, the sales of their kittehs, the sales of their horsies... And even if they did, it would be too much work because that would push 1.6 back for at least a couple of months. That's how fundamentally flawed it is.

WillhelmBlack

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

With a bit of practice I was soloing resources.

here is a patch note:
1.6.2

Champion System

General
The maximum system limit of 3,600 Champion Points will now be awarded to the Character Template to allow for more testing of the Champion System.
Note: This will cause PvE content to become easier than it was originally balanced for, and is not the intended balance of the system.

Aye, I know. Just sharing my experience of 3,600 CP's.

Dracane

Maybe I am so weak now, because I don't have my bugged staff anymore (which I have not bug reported) #notsorry #Imabadgirl

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

Berinima wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

So people calling for balance what is your solution? No character progression so a new player can come in and compete in pvp? Hows that going to work? With no reason to do anything people will simply log off.

There are many solutions to the numerous problems that arise with the introduction of this very flawed system. To acquire some insights you could actually read the critical threads regarding the champion system instead of posting "GIMME 1.6 NOW !!!!11" like you do in pretty much all of them.

However, I assume ZOS will not listen anyway. While the system has some good ideas it would need a giant overhaul to be actually working. I assume they don't care enough about the existing playerbase, they care more about the new box sales, the sales of their kittehs, the sales of their horsies... And even if they did, it would be too much work because that would push 1.6 back for at least a couple of months. That's how fundamentally flawed it is.

So in other words you have no solution.