Race change and/or complete rebalancing of racial passives are a must

tinythinker

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Argonian - Argonian Resistance, the health portion is kind of low like the wood elf stamina bonus
Argonian - Quick to Mend, downright awful...6% increased healing is just bad and needs to be flat out replaced.

If you increase the max health value for Argonian Resistance by 2% for each rank and double the healing received value for Rapid Mending, those passives would be very viable in making Argonians more competitive. Not just for the stats, but as a particular approach to designing a character that is thoughtfully tied to a particular race. I like the health emphasis for Argonians and its lore connection to the hist.

I think Bosmer and Argonians would benefit from making disease more meaningful and having a chance to "resist" disease effects altogether/reduce their duration as well as take less disease damage. The same could be done with poison.

As for Resist Frost for Nords, I see it like the swimming speed bonus for Argonians under Amphibious. In both cases, you have a fun lore friendly ability, and it is tied to a more valuable/usable game mechanic in the same passive. Would be nice to add that kind of fun little bonus to all races. Anyway, if you keep the resistance to cold damage, double the base value of the max health bonus for the Frost Resist passive (to 2%/4%/6%), and then triple that bonus scale that bonus upward whenever a Nord character is under (what? 25%, 35%, 45%?) health, the passive would be more useful in game. Might also help if there were more cold themed delves and dungeons, like the opposite of Veteran City of Ash, to take advantage of the cold damage resistance.

ThatNeonZebraAgain

tinythinker wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Argonian - Argonian Resistance, the health portion is kind of low like the wood elf stamina bonus
Argonian - Quick to Mend, downright awful...6% increased healing is just bad and needs to be flat out replaced.

If you increase the max health value for Argonian Resistance by 2% for each rank and double the healing received value for Rapid Mending, those passives would be very viable in making Argonians more competitive. Not just for the stats, but as a particular approach to designing a character that is thoughtfully tied to a particular race. I like the health emphasis for Argonians and its lore connection to the hist.

I think Bosmer and Argonians would benefit from making disease more meaningful and having a chance to "resist" disease effects altogether/reduce their duration as well as take less disease damage. The same could be done with poison.

As for Resist Frost for Nords, I see it like the swimming speed bonus for Argonians under Amphibious. In both cases, you have a fun lore friendly ability, and it is tied to a more valuable/usable game mechanic in the same passive. Would be nice to add that kind of fun little bonus to all races. Anyway, if you keep the resistance to cold damage, double the base value of the max health bonus for the Frost Resist passive (to 2%/4%/6%), and then triple that bonus whenever a Nord character is under (what? 25%, 35%, 45%?) health, the passive would be more useful in game. Might also help if there were more cold themed delves and dungeons, like the opposite of Veteran City of Ash, to take advantage of the cold damage resistance.

Exactly. The passives themselves aren't bad, but they are underpowered. Their uniqueness could lend themselves to interesting builds and encounters if made more powerful/dynamic -- I'd love to see Nords rock for vet Direfrost Keep!

tinythinker

ThatNeonZebraAgain wrote: »

tinythinker wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Argonian - Argonian Resistance, the health portion is kind of low like the wood elf stamina bonus
Argonian - Quick to Mend, downright awful...6% increased healing is just bad and needs to be flat out replaced.

If you increase the max health value for Argonian Resistance by 2% for each rank and double the healing received value for Rapid Mending, those passives would be very viable in making Argonians more competitive. Not just for the stats, but as a particular approach to designing a character that is thoughtfully tied to a particular race. I like the health emphasis for Argonians and its lore connection to the hist.

I think Bosmer and Argonians would benefit from making disease more meaningful and having a chance to "resist" disease effects altogether/reduce their duration as well as take less disease damage. The same could be done with poison.

As for Resist Frost for Nords, I see it like the swimming speed bonus for Argonians under Amphibious. In both cases, you have a fun lore friendly ability, and it is tied to a more valuable/usable game mechanic in the same passive. Would be nice to add that kind of fun little bonus to all races. Anyway, if you keep the resistance to cold damage, double the base value of the max health bonus for the Frost Resist passive (to 2%/4%/6%), and then triple that bonus whenever a Nord character is under (what? 25%, 35%, 45%?) health, the passive would be more useful in game. Might also help if there were more cold themed delves and dungeons, like the opposite of Veteran City of Ash, to take advantage of the cold damage resistance.

Exactly. The passives themselves aren't bad, but they are underpowered. Their uniqueness could lend themselves to interesting builds and encounters if made more powerful/dynamic -- I'd love to see Nords rock for vet Direfrost Keep!

Summary/TL;DR Version

Earlier in this thread I suggested doubling the max health bonus for the Nord Frost Resist passive and then scaling the max health bonus when the character is low in health. If you want to see how I tinkered with this idea read below. Here is the summary.

For a Nord with a 6% max health bonus instead of 3% as with the current bonus for Rank III of Resist Frost, and with a max health of 20,000 that includes this bonus, you would see the following results *if* your max health bonus *also* scaled from an increase of 18% at 45% max health remaining on your health bar up to 250% max health bonus when only 5% remains on your health bar according to the scheme laid out above:

At 45% total health left, you would go from 9,000 to 10,019 (an 18% bonus).
At 10% health left, you would go from 2,000 to 3,774 (a 200% bonus).
At 5% health left, you would go from 1,000 to 2,358 (a 250% bonus).

Similarly, if you had 30,000 max health that already included the 6% bonus:

At 45% total health left, you would go from 13,500 to 15,028 (an 18% bonus).
At 10% health left, you would go from 3,000 to 5,660 (a 200% bonus).
At 5% health left, you would go from 1,500 to 3,538 (a 250% bonus).

And if you had 40,000 max health that already included the 6% bonus:

At 45% total health left, you would go from 18,000 to 20,038 (an 18% bonus).
At 10% health left, you would go from 4,000 to 7,547 (a 200% bonus).
At 5% health left, you would go from 2,000 to 4,717 (a 250% bonus).

Looks like a good, solid passive this way that fits the idea that Nords really get going in battle after they get a little bloody. (For balance or clarity, if necessary the max health scaling part could just be taken out of the Resist Frost passive and dropped into or replace the Robust passive.)


Original Comment
Yeah, some need powered up, some don't, but not too much to make it unfair/unbalanced. To give an example of my suggested buff to the Nord passive Resist Frost, let's use and easy figure in 1.6 scaling.

You start with 20,000 health (which includes the proposed extra 6% max health for all three ranks of the passive). Let's set the threshold for tripling the bonus (to 18%) at 45% health remaining and below. Your Nord would then get this kind of bonus:

9,000 health remaining --> 10,019 health remaining

5,000 health remaining --> 5,566 health remaining

2,000 health remaining --> 2,226 health remaining

In other words, you would have 10,019 health instead of 9,000, or 2,226 health instead of 2,000. This is with a straight scale, adjusting for the fact that 6% was already added when tripling the bonus to 18%. Clearly it is not over-powered, and because the bonus doesn't increase as health is lowered, the constant modifier means the returns become pretty ineffective as your character gets close to death.

Maybe this idea would work better if the low health bonus to increase max health scaled like the low health bonus to damage for execute abilities, up to some larger percentage, so that the passive still meant something in a close fight. It could start at an18% bonus for 45% or lower max health as per the 9,000 out of 20,000 becoming 10,019 in example above, then rapidly increase from there as the health total falls.

If you use a similar scale to damage bonuses for execute abilities, the max health bonus could top out at 200% or at most 300% when you are at either 5% or 10% health.


At a 300% bonus for 10% health, it would look something like this*:

2,000 health remaining (out of 20,000) --> 5,660

3,000 health remaining (out of 30,000) --> 8,490

4,000 health remaining (out of 40,000) --> 11,320


At a 200% bonus for 10% health, it would look something like this:

2,000 health remaining (out of 20,000) --> 3,774

3,000 health remaining (out of 30,000) --> 5,660

4,000 health remaining (out of 40,000) --> 7,547


At a 300% bonus for 5% health, it would look something like this**:

1,000 health remaining (out of 20,000) --> 2,830

1,500 health remaining (out of 30,000) --> 4,245

2,000 health remaining (out of 40,000) --> 5,660


At a 200% bonus for 5% health, it would look something like this:

1,000 health remaining (out of 20,000) --> 1,887

1,500 health remaining (out of 30,000) --> 2,830

2,000 health remaining (out of 40,000) --> 3,774

Hmm, yeah, I guess at really low a scaled bonus of 200% to max health looks more reasonable for a racial passive than 300% at both 10% and 5% remaining.

Just out of curiosity...


At a 250% bonus for 5% health, it would look something like this:

1,000 health remaining (out of 20,000) --> 2,358

1,500 health remaining (out of 30,000) --> 3,538

2,000 health remaining (out of 40,000) --> 4,717

Still effective if you invest heavily in your maximum health stat but without becoming overly powerful.

(*Still sssuming that the total max health numbers in parentheses already include the base 6% bonus in the total for all of the sets of examples.)

ashlee17

I share your concerns Erock25. I am quite fond of my argonians amphibous alure and would hate to have to change his appearance just for better racial pasives. So this is what I have come up with-

A fair solution for all...

Since the racial pasives have been changed several times already since the beginning of ESO I think it would be fair to offer players a way to change their native racial pasives.

I propose that zos give all characters the ability to unlock and "channel the spirit" (aka passives) of another race.

This would allow any race to use the passive a of any other race in place of their own, while retaining the "look" of there original race.

The different racial passives could be unlocked though a series of quests or as an addition to the champion system.

It would work in a similar style to Mundas stone effects.

As the changes have affected all characters this option should be avalible to all, though a way to speed up the unlock "could" be sold though the cash shop.

This might be a fair solution to the problems that have arisen by zos continually changing racial pasives now and into the future.

Thanks for reading. We have a verry passionate community here on the forums so please be kind to my humble idea

madangrypally

ashlee17 wrote: »

A fair solution for all...

This would be an idea solution and would prevent future racial balancing issues.

I would like to tweak it though.

Ways to unlock other racial passives:

• Through long quest chains where the character helps a particle race.
• Achievements.

A player can only have 4 active racial passives active at a time. He must select the four out of all the ones he has unlocked.

An example of the above system:
My Nord Character has all 4 Nord Racials.
A quest chain to save a Breton Town from invasion. Start of quest through end of quest is all Breton related, including fighting off hordes of undead Breton. During the quest the Nord Character begins to have a deeper understanding of the Bretons life.

At quest chain completion one of the Breton Passive is unlocked. Other quests or achievements are needed to unlock the other passives.


Another example:
Killing 20,000 High Elves has allowed my Nord character to discover the secrets of the High Elves. A high elf passive is unlocked.

High Elves are attacking a zone and a quest is given to repel the invaders. After quest is finished I unlock a second high elf passive.

A dungeon is full of high elves cultist and scholars. While exploring the dungeons I discover a lore book that unlocks a third high elf passive.

There could be many ways for them to add unlocks into the game.
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That or just let us change races since many changes have been made since launch.

I created my characters during early access and what held true then does not hold true now.

Wolfster

Race change on the crown store doesn't fix the problem. Just means the FOTMers buy a race change every time something gets rebalanced.

Erock25

madangrypally wrote: »

ashlee17 wrote: »

A fair solution for all...

This would be an idea solution and would prevent future racial balancing issues.

I would like to tweak it though.

Ways to unlock other racial passives:

• Through long quest chains where the character helps a particle race.
• Achievements.

A player can only have 4 active racial passives active at a time. He must select the four out of all the ones he has unlocked.

An example of the above system:
My Nord Character has all 4 Nord Racials.
A quest chain to save a Breton Town from invasion. Start of quest through end of quest is all Breton related, including fighting off hordes of undead Breton. During the quest the Nord Character begins to have a deeper understanding of the Bretons life.

At quest chain completion one of the Breton Passive is unlocked. Other quests or achievements are needed to unlock the other passives.


Another example:
Killing 20,000 High Elves has allowed my Nord character to discover the secrets of the High Elves. A high elf passive is unlocked.

High Elves are attacking a zone and a quest is given to repel the invaders. After quest is finished I unlock a second high elf passive.

A dungeon is full of high elves cultist and scholars. While exploring the dungeons I discover a lore book that unlocks a third high elf passive.

There could be many ways for them to add unlocks into the game.
=============================
=============================

That or just let us change races since many changes have been made since launch.

I created my characters during early access and what held true then does not hold true now.

Good idea but nearly impossible for them to implement by the time 1.6 hits live so that means we wouldn't see it for at least 6 more months and that is unacceptable. I'm currently subbed and will cancel my sub if I'm stuck with these terrible racial passives when 1.6 goes live.

Xsorus

The Frost Resist needs to be changed to Armor like they had before on Nords. Adding Direfrost keep vet mode isn't going to make Frost resist for Nords ok....That's like 1 dungeon out of the whole game that would get benefit.

Hell even the Argonian Disease/Poison passive gets more use, since Poison Damage is Poison Injection and Lethal Arrow, probably the most common attacks in the game during PvP.

They should of honestly made nightblades do poison damage for their spells and Sorcs do Frost damage... that would of been more fair then just saying "Magic" for some attacks.