Enough of the nonsense - PTS Sorc discussion

TheBull · February 2015

25k shields 13k overload attacks 8k curse.... We can't let this go live.

Q fricken Q

edit - 9k mine crits from non emp sorc... really?

NoRefunds · February 2015

remember that i get those numbers because i'm emperor, a normal sorc has half the magika->half the dmg

XEVENEX · February 2015

OMG EMPEROR IS OP... NERF SORC!

Derra · February 2015

Well 12k on overload tooltip dmg is totally possible as non emp. They went a little over the top with the buff to that ultimate.

DeLindsay · February 2015

TheBull wrote: »

25k shields 13k overload attacks 8k curse.... We can't let this go live.

Q fricken Q

Show us absolute proof that a non-Emperor can achieve a 25K shield with Hardened Ward. I made a Template Sorc and posted results HERE as to what that Shield gets to with pretty high Magicka (30K), a whopping 9K, and even if you take it to the extreme (40K+) you still aren't getting a 25K Shield. Grossly exaggerating just to get some Class mechanic nerfed all because you tried to solo an Emperor is lols.

Soulac · February 2015

DeLindsay wrote: »

TheBull wrote: »

25k shields 13k overload attacks 8k curse.... We can't let this go live.

Q fricken Q

Show us absolute proof that a non-Emperor can achieve a 25K shield with Hardened Ward. I made a Template Sorc and posted results HERE as to what that Shield gets to with pretty high Magicka (30K), a whopping 9K, and even if you take it to the extreme (40K+) you still aren't getting a 25K Shield. Grossly exaggerating just to get some Class mechanic nerfed all because you tried to solo an Emperor is lols.

Hardend Ward + Harness Magicka.
If you want you could add healing ward.

That's what he meant.

TagaParti · February 2015

NoRefunds wrote: »

remember that i get those numbers because i'm emperor, a normal sorc has half the magika->half the dmg

so this is an emperor damage then? il try to log into PTS and let this emperor try to kill my unkillable DK, if he can do it then it is really OP. but i doubt that.
i dueled a good sorc in PTS 2 days ago, he only managed to drop my hp to 93%, and he ended up dead. maybe the emp can bring me down to 80%, considering the stats he have.
whats the name of the emp sorc again?

Digiman · February 2015

So is this an argument about sorcerer shields and the only way they can survive or about sorcerer emperers and their ability to survive, because cleanse would like a word with his DK friends.

Either way its obvious what is happening, ZoS has nerfed a classes survivability to the point they had to build a new spec to survive and now this is what you get a malteser with hard chocolate and shell and crunch fragile bones that shatter in a single motion.

How about suggestions to drive sorcerers away from these taxing builds instead of crying nerfs?

DeLindsay · February 2015

Digiman wrote: »

How about suggestions to drive sorcerers away from these taxing builds instead of crying nerfs?

But it's MMO tradition. If you can't beat a certain Class/build then you demand the company nerf them as you are obviously a superior Player and they must be cheating or exploiting somehow

TheBull · February 2015

NoRefunds wrote: »

remember that i get those numbers because i'm emperor, a normal sorc has half the magika->half the dmg

Yeah I saw that AFTER we fought... The thread was buried by then...

but STILL

themizario · February 2015

TagaParti wrote: »

NoRefunds wrote: »

remember that i get those numbers because i'm emperor, a normal sorc has half the magika->half the dmg

so this is an emperor damage then? il try to log into PTS and let this emperor try to kill my unkillable DK, if he can do it then it is really OP. but i doubt that.
i dueled a good sorc in PTS 2 days ago, he only managed to drop my hp to 93%, and he ended up dead. maybe the emp can bring me down to 80%, considering the stats he have.
whats the name of the emp sorc again?

I want to know what happens.

Maulkin · February 2015

Derra wrote: »

Well 12k on overload tooltip dmg is totally possible as non emp. They went a little over the top with the buff to that ultimate.

Yes and no.

Yes the damage is high in proportion to average player HP and its cost. Hence it seems OTT

But, in a world where Biting Jabs hits for >10k and stunlocks, where Uppercut hits light armor for 15k and is uninterruptable etc, it's not OTT.

I think damage is now out of proportion with average player HP. That is your root problem. HP was nerfed by 30% while most damage abilities got buffed and the softcaps were removed to give players more spell/wpn damage and more magicka/stamina. Hence you have people melting.

They need to put HP back where it was imo, with an average HP of 30k instead of 20k.

C0pp3rhead · February 2015

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Well 12k on overload tooltip dmg is totally possible as non emp. They went a little over the top with the buff to that ultimate.

I think damage is now out of proportion with average player HP. That is your root problem. HP was nerfed by 30% while most damage abilities got buffed and the softcaps were removed to give players more spell/wpn damage and more magicka/stamina. Hence you have people melting.

They need to put HP back where it was imo, with an average HP of 30k instead of 20k.

^^^ This.
I'm still confused as to why they decided to "rebalance" player HP. I'm not sure anyone asked for an HP nerf for any class, nor did high HP cause problems for anyone.

As for sorcs, ZOS just straightened up Templars, so now they need a different class to bend over. Just let it happen.

Merlin13KAGL · February 2015

Soulac wrote: »

DeLindsay wrote: »

TheBull wrote: »

25k shields 13k overload attacks 8k curse.... We can't let this go live.

Q fricken Q

Show us absolute proof that a non-Emperor can achieve a 25K shield with Hardened Ward. I made a Template Sorc and posted results HERE as to what that Shield gets to with pretty high Magicka (30K), a whopping 9K, and even if you take it to the extreme (40K+) you still aren't getting a 25K Shield. Grossly exaggerating just to get some Class mechanic nerfed all because you tried to solo an Emperor is lols.

Hardend Ward + Harness Magicka.
If you want you could add healing ward.

That's what he meant.

@Soulac , try again please.

Harness only works against Spell attacks, so the stacked numbers do not always apply. Physical attacks will just roll right past it.

It's like having the shade drawn on an open window. Sure it will protect you from the sun, but lob an arrow through it and see what happens.

Translated numbers (rough) show those to be 1300 overload attacks (it is an Ultimate) and 800 from Curse.

What weapons are you using, guessing your heavy attacks and some of your Ults can hit those numbers or higher with relative ease.

And if it is coming from the Emp, it makes the (complaint about the) numbers even less valid.

@Thebull , overload lights can be reflected and absorbed, btw. If it's healing ward, ward ally, or Harness/morphs, you can use them just the same.

Not broken thing is not broken.

TagaParti · February 2015

themizario wrote: »

TagaParti wrote: »

NoRefunds wrote: »

remember that i get those numbers because i'm emperor, a normal sorc has half the magika->half the dmg

so this is an emperor damage then? il try to log into PTS and let this emperor try to kill my unkillable DK, if he can do it then it is really OP. but i doubt that.
i dueled a good sorc in PTS 2 days ago, he only managed to drop my hp to 93%, and he ended up dead. maybe the emp can bring me down to 80%, considering the stats he have.
whats the name of the emp sorc again?

I want to know what happens.

as i expected, all were afraid of the unkillable as rumors spread out so fast. emp cant damage the unkillable and they will end up damaging their reputation. thats why i created a thread to challenge anyone, willing to give away 50k for any brave soul who can beat me.

Vatter · February 2015

lololololol all these sorcs are the very same ones crying for zos to nerf my radiant destruction.
typical.

Domander · February 2015

OP is nonsense.

TheBull · February 2015

9k mine crits really? 25-45k of damage laying on the ground, really?

trimsic_ESO · February 2015

NoRefunds wrote: »

remember that i get those numbers because i'm emperor, a normal sorc has half the magika->half the dmg

This is not true. This is not half the damage. The magicka-to-damage transfer curve is not linear. The more you invest in magicka, the less your investment is rewarding for your damage output. In short, it's quite similar to the points you invest in the Champion System.

sagitter · February 2015

Digiman wrote: »

So is this an argument about sorcerer shields and the only way they can survive or about sorcerer emperers and their ability to survive, because cleanse would like a word with his DK friends.

Either way its obvious what is happening, ZoS has nerfed a classes survivability to the point they had to build a new spec to survive and now this is what you get a malteser with hard chocolate and shell and crunch fragile bones that shatter in a single motion.

How about suggestions to drive sorcerers away from these taxing builds instead of crying nerfs?

Were you the dude who wrote a thread about the weakness of the sorc in 1.6???????? DAMN YOU!!!! go play pts pvp and tell me now that sorc is weak wtf

Erock25 · February 2015

Please dethrone sorc emp so the clueless can stop coming here and crying about him.

AriBoh · February 2015

Digiman wrote: »

Either way its obvious what is happening, ZoS has nerfed a classes survivability to the point they had to build a new spec to survive and now this is what you get a malteser with hard chocolate and shell and crunch fragile bones that shatter in a single motion.

Best. analogy. ever.

Derra · February 2015

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Well 12k on overload tooltip dmg is totally possible as non emp. They went a little over the top with the buff to that ultimate.

Yes and no.

Yes the damage is high in proportion to average player HP and its cost. Hence it seems OTT

But, in a world where Biting Jabs hits for >10k and stunlocks, where Uppercut hits light armor for 15k and is uninterruptable etc, it's not OTT.

I think damage is now out of proportion with average player HP. That is your root problem. HP was nerfed by 30% while most damage abilities got buffed and the softcaps were removed to give players more spell/wpn damage and more magicka/stamina. Hence you have people melting.

They need to put HP back where it was imo, with an average HP of 30k instead of 20k.

Not really. With buffs from degeneration and martial knowledge the first hit will do about 15k dmg on medium armor the second about 11k NONCRIT. Thats 26k dmg on two hits. Even with 30000 health you would get twoshotted if one of those crit.
Ofc with 12k tooltip the char is built entirely for dmg and has like 18k health in cyrodiil (not with overload though - you can get moar).

Edit: 16200 tooltip dmg with entropy buff is what i get out of overload at max with the gear at my disposal on pts.

Exstazik · February 2015

Derra wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Well 12k on overload tooltip dmg is totally possible as non emp. They went a little over the top with the buff to that ultimate.

Yes and no.

Yes the damage is high in proportion to average player HP and its cost. Hence it seems OTT

But, in a world where Biting Jabs hits for >10k and stunlocks, where Uppercut hits light armor for 15k and is uninterruptable etc, it's not OTT.

I think damage is now out of proportion with average player HP. That is your root problem. HP was nerfed by 30% while most damage abilities got buffed and the softcaps were removed to give players more spell/wpn damage and more magicka/stamina. Hence you have people melting.

They need to put HP back where it was imo, with an average HP of 30k instead of 20k.

Not really. With buffs from degeneration and martial knowledge the first hit will do about 15k dmg on medium armor the second about 11k NONCRIT. Thats 26k dmg on two hits. Even with 30000 health you would get twoshotted if one of those crit.
Ofc with 12k tooltip the char is built entirely for dmg and has like 18k health in cyrodiil (not with overload though - you can get moar).

Edit: 16200 tooltip dmg with entropy buff is what i get out of overload at max with the gear at my disposal on pts.

You can get CF dmg up to 8k without buffs,crit and proc.But hp will be around 15k

Gyudan · February 2015

trimsic_ESO wrote: »

NoRefunds wrote: »

remember that i get those numbers because i'm emperor, a normal sorc has half the magika->half the dmg

This is not true. This is not half the damage. The magicka-to-damage transfer curve is not linear. The more you invest in magicka, the less your investment is rewarding for your damage output. In short, it's quite similar to the points you invest in the Champion System.

@trimsic_ESO: It's been proven somewhere else (sorry, I don't remember who made the thread), but the damage calculation is actually linear, using both spell damage and max magicka to determine ability damage.

The formula for Crystal Fragments is as follows:
Damage = 0.154 * (Max Magicka + 10.46 * Spell Damage)

The 10.46 ratio is identical on all abilities.
The 0.154 factor is specific to Crystal Fragments. It will be different on other abilities.

Feel free to try it for yourself.

ToRelax · February 2015

TheBull wrote: »

9k mine crits really? 25-45k of damage laying on the ground, really?

Like DKs have a way of forcing people into melee combat (scales), Sorcs have a way of forcing people into ranged combat. Both can be circumvented and you can brake both (with the scales nerf) if you decide to take the damage.
Sorcs are more mobile than DKs but so the mines are static, other than scales.

Tankqull · February 2015

Derra wrote: »

Well 12k on overload tooltip dmg is totally possible as non emp. They went a little over the top with the buff to that ultimate.

jep decrease dmg and cost while getting rid of that internal GCD.

Derra wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Well 12k on overload tooltip dmg is totally possible as non emp. They went a little over the top with the buff to that ultimate.

Yes and no.

Yes the damage is high in proportion to average player HP and its cost. Hence it seems OTT

But, in a world where Biting Jabs hits for >10k and stunlocks, where Uppercut hits light armor for 15k and is uninterruptable etc, it's not OTT.

I think damage is now out of proportion with average player HP. That is your root problem. HP was nerfed by 30% while most damage abilities got buffed and the softcaps were removed to give players more spell/wpn damage and more magicka/stamina. Hence you have people melting.

They need to put HP back where it was imo, with an average HP of 30k instead of 20k.

Not really. With buffs from degeneration and martial knowledge the first hit will do about 15k dmg on medium armor the second about 11k NONCRIT. Thats 26k dmg on two hits. Even with 30000 health you would get twoshotted if one of those crit.
Ofc with 12k tooltip the char is built entirely for dmg and has like 18k health in cyrodiil (not with overload though - you can get moar).

Edit: 16200 tooltip dmg with entropy buff is what i get out of overload at max with the gear at my disposal on pts.

don´t forget resitences wich do matter alot now. i guess we will see alot more resitence/armor glyphs soon especially with the reduced weapon/spell dmg glyphs.

Tankqull · February 2015

del please

DeLindsay · February 2015

Gyudan wrote: »

@trimsic_ESO: It's been proven somewhere else (sorry, I don't remember who made the thread), but the damage calculation is actually linear, using both spell damage and max magicka to determine ability damage.

The formula for Crystal Fragments is as follows:
Damage = 0.154 * (Max Magicka + 10.46 * Spell Damage)

The 10.46 ratio is identical on all abilities.
The 0.154 factor is specific to Crystal Fragments. It will be different on other abilities.

Thanks for the info.

Merlin13KAGL · February 2015

Gyudan wrote: »

trimsic_ESO wrote: »

NoRefunds wrote: »

remember that i get those numbers because i'm emperor, a normal sorc has half the magika->half the dmg

This is not true. This is not half the damage. The magicka-to-damage transfer curve is not linear. The more you invest in magicka, the less your investment is rewarding for your damage output. In short, it's quite similar to the points you invest in the Champion System.

@trimsic_ESO: It's been proven somewhere else (sorry, I don't remember who made the thread), but the damage calculation is actually linear, using both spell damage and max magicka to determine ability damage.

The formula for Crystal Fragments is as follows:
Damage = 0.154 * (Max Magicka + 10.46 * Spell Damage)

The 10.46 ratio is identical on all abilities.
The 0.154 factor is specific to Crystal Fragments. It will be different on other abilities.

Feel free to try it for yourself.

Here's the thread.

keni_harringtonb16_ESO · February 2015

its not the shields that need nerfing they dont need any change the overload is to strong though