DoTs/NB 1.6 Patch Notes

Draehl

To start I must say I'm rather happy with the patch notes and the overall direction of the game, but specifically from my perspective as an attrition built NB caster I'm disappointed in the lack of DoT love...

Since beta I've tried to re-create my preferred playstyle I've played in all my past MMOs and even in pen n paper D&D- You can simply call it a generic "darkcaster" known more specifically as a Bloodmage (Vanguard), Afflicton Warlock/Shadowpriest (WoW), Necromancer (GW), Zealot/Rune Priest (Warhammer) etc. but I keep hitting a roadblock in ESO of the fact that being a burst nuker is simply so much more effective than the essentially non-existent sustained damage options ESO has to offer. The ability to play a lower DPS, but higher sustained pressure caster just isn't there. Don't get me wrong- Zenimax has offered great utility/debuffing/sustain effects to complement this style such as Shadow Image, Mass Hysteria, Funnel Health, Combat Prayer, etc. The problem is we're lacking the absolute bread and butter skill, the cornerstone of the playstyle: a strong damage-per-cast (but not necessarily high DPS) single target DoT. Crippling Grasp is the closest we get, and it only does ~2x a Funnel Health. That's not pressure. I thought for a while maybe I picked the wrong class, but all the DK skills are melee, Sorc has Daedric Curse, but that's little more than a slightly delayed nuke/I've never been a fan of pets. ESO just doesn't offer it and I'm rather disappointed.

I was looking forward to the patch notes and am ultimately pretty let down. I've listed some more specific thoughts below. Please feel free to disagree, but I'm getting pretty close to putting the game down, and not because of the F2P element, but that Zenimax isn't supporting a core playstyle to the genre...

• 6% buff to Cripple. Woo! Even still, its such a short duration if you buff it too much it starts treading into burst territory.
• Debilitate. A great candidate for a longer duration pressure DoT morph, instead... mana cost refund? Mana cost. Really?
• Entropy admittedly looks usable now, not because of the DoT, but in spite of it.
• Agony I'm most disappointed in. No one uses hard CC in PvE. You either zerg it or it's immune. Useless in PvP for obvious reasons. Can we please turn this into something else? How about a decent DoT- unless the 50% duration also applies to the DoT, but I'm doubtful as the same treatment was given to Rune Prison for Sorcs.
• Soul Trap. Nothing here, not that I was expecting it, but it would have made a great single target DoT that everyone has access to.

FallenProphet

Fire destruction staff on second bar
Force Shock morphed to crushing shock for interrupt and fire DOT
OR
Impulse morphed to elemental ring for DOT
Then grab some passives for some sustain and other stuff

Draehl

Unfortunately both of those skills are rather tempered by their nuke/utility and AoE, respectively. It baffles me there isn't a pure single target long duration DoT in this game. No utility, aoe, heal, etc. but just "for the next 15 seconds you melt" but we have multitudes of instant gratification nukes.

whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO

[*] Agony I'm most disappointed in. No one uses hard CC in PvE. You either zerg it or it's immune. Useless in PvP for obvious reasons. Can we please turn this into something else? How about a decent DoT- unless the 50% duration also applies to the DoT, but I'm doubtful as the same treatment was given to Rune Prison for Sorcs.

I am gonna see if Agony works on guards tonight since the stun is like 30 secs long but I think they can break free..

sagitter

i agree, dot sucks here, first of all because it can be blocked and neutralized, and tics do not drain enemy stamina, what s the point using dots with op block mechanic.

Cody

Agony is utterly useless. there is absolutely ZERO reason to use it. It breaks as soon as damage is taken, meaning it can only be used to "keep someone out of the fight"

The skill is worthless when facing weak-average enemies, and is utterly useless when its needed the most: against the more powerful enemies of the game, due to CC immunity

One could say "make it not break on damage" but then we would have players with low stamina/ builds with low stamina, sitting there for 12 seconds defenseless; that would also be unacceptable. Hitting players with high amounts of stamina with it would result in them simply CC breaking it, completely rendering the abilitie's function obsolete.

There is no hope for this ability: most NBs simply use a stun/ knockback from a weapon skill line or a crafted set. Others use shadow image. Others use cloak(if they can get cloak to work right) even more use fear. Agony is not needed for Nightblades and should be scraped and replaced with something else.

Draehl

Cody wrote: »

There is no hope for this ability: most NBs simply use a stun/ knockback from a weapon skill line or a crafted set. Others use shadow image. Others use cloak(if they can get cloak to work right) even more use fear. Agony is not needed for Nightblades and should be scraped and replaced with something else.

I'd love for this to be a health sacrifice skill to offer synergy with the other siphoning skills. For example:

Agony: Sacrifice X HP to deal Y damage. 1.5s cast-time. Small amount of health sac, deals moderately more damage than Strife. You could take perhaps 10% of the damage dealt- noticeable, but not a huge deal. Maybe have this be a mid range skill? Closer than Strife, but further out than the Sap radius?

Morph1 Baleful Agony: Sacrifices more health for more damage. Our highest DPS skill, barring ults. You should really feel the pain, though- something closer to 20-30% of the damage dealt is sent back to you. You wouldn't want to spam this much. More of an opener, pre-execute burst, or if you have a pocket healer in PvP.

Morph2 Shared Agony: Damage stays the same as base skill, but debuffs the enemy for, say, 5 seconds so they are dealt back 15-20% of the damage they deal. (With a cap, of course to avoid boss abuse)

thodoris1008

I can see the possibility of a good PVE DoT build,if ZOS decides to buff some of them a little.However,i don't think that DoT builds will ever be competitive in pvp,unless they decide to make DoTs really OP.The reason for that is simple.Healing in this game is so strong,cheap and easily accessible that one can not expect to outdamage it with a 'die slowly and painfully' playstyle.

deepseamk20b14_ESO

Agony=Forever lonely.

LegacyDM

I don't understand the change to agony. What value does a 50% increase provide in pvp if it breaks on damage?! 1.2 secs from 1.5 is a joke. Oooooooo .3 secs.

Francescolg

As a Templar, which - before many patches - also relied on DoTs, I can also attest that DoTs in this game are a joke in terms of total damage amount over time and in terms of total time. (Our) DoTs do less dmg than in any game I've played before.
To be taken "seriously" DoTs should do 3k damage other 20-30 sec while in this game it is (very generally):

300-400 dmg over 10 sec
600 dmg over 10-15 sec
some skills about 1000dmg "

due to all different kind of magical resistances etc. etc. DoTs result in dmg-ticks of 50-150 damage for short amount of times and don't even match the total damage of one major templar heal, or burst dmg spell. 500-800 dmg DoTs are bad jokes, result in very small damage ticks / are not even worth casting!
This is very disturbing. Even reapplying the DoTs has no real value. And DoTs do not hinder NBs to go into stealth, which they did in many games as their main "function": to disable stealth (or at least they force some form of cleaning + stealth).

Draehl

Francescolg wrote: »

As a Templar, which - before many patches - also relied on DoTs, I can also attest that DoTs in this game are a joke in terms of total damage amount over time and in terms of total time. (Our) DoTs do less dmg than in any game I've played before.
To be taken "seriously" DoTs should do 3k damage other 20-30 sec while in this game it is (very generally):

300-400 dmg over 10 sec
600 dmg over 10-15 sec
some skills about 1000dmg "

due to all different kind of magical resistances etc. etc. DoTs result in dmg-ticks of 50-150 damage for short amount of times and don't even match the total damage of one major templar heal, or burst dmg spell. 500-800 dmg DoTs are bad jokes, result in very small damage ticks / are not even worth casting!
This is very disturbing. Even reapplying the DoTs has no real value. And DoTs do not hinder NBs to go into stealth, which they did in many games as their main "function": to disable stealth (or at least they force some form of cleaning + stealth).

Agreed on the Templar bit and what it takes for a DoT to be taken seriously. Speaking as NB, DoTs very much DO hinder shadow cloak- even when we take the utility-based morph that clears DoTs off it still fails half the time...

Darkonflare15

Cody wrote: »

Agony is utterly useless. there is absolutely ZERO reason to use it. It breaks as soon as damage is taken, meaning it can only be used to "keep someone out of the fight"

The skill is worthless when facing weak-average enemies, and is utterly useless when its needed the most: against the more powerful enemies of the game, due to CC immunity

One could say "make it not break on damage" but then we would have players with low stamina/ builds with low stamina, sitting there for 12 seconds defenseless; that would also be unacceptable. Hitting players with high amounts of stamina with it would result in them simply CC breaking it, completely rendering the abilitie's function obsolete.

There is no hope for this ability: most NBs simply use a stun/ knockback from a weapon skill line or a crafted set. Others use shadow image. Others use cloak(if they can get cloak to work right) even more use fear. Agony is not needed for Nightblades and should be scraped and replaced with something else.

All agony is a long duration stun that when it is broken it gives a dot. So if you want a dot that is guaranteed after a stun, this is the skill. This skill is suppose to break if you look at its morphs. Prolonged suffering morph produces a dot after it is broken. While the other morph Malefic Wreath does area damage when it is broken and would do more damage depending on how long the target is held per sec. So the base skill is a stun dot with a morph that makes the dot last longer and another morph that allows the damage be a burst aoe effect that increases damage when the target is held longer. The only problem with skill is why they boost the duration of the skill. This skill really does not benefit from it at all.

Father

Every class gets its own agony-like skill. If they plan to change it then they better change it to everyone.

sagitter

What's the point to have an hard cc here if you can break-free or break it with damage...
Agony , weak damage, useless cc, cast time, blockable, one of the worst and useless skill in the game.

EsORising

So they completely changed haste and sparks (skills we use a lot) and they didn't touch agony .... Good work ZoS.

That whole siphoning skill line can use some changes. They did fix siphon speed skill that seemed to do absolutely nothing, in 1.6 dehibilitate is now a really good skill. Agony is still something I won't even spend a skill point on.

TheBull

I tested agony on the pts last night. Unlike petrify or rune prison, it still cannot be used against blocking, mounted, knocked down, or stunned targets. You just wave you hand in the air as the skill fizzles...

Is this intended? If so why when the other two similar skills do not behave this way.

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom‌
@ZOS_GinaBruno‌

EsORising

Didn't they make it so you can put a dot on people in agony? I don't know what that means though.. Can put that shadow dot on them? can someone else like a mage or dk put a dot? Am i confusing this with petrify the dk skill? I would check the notes but they are like 5 pages long.

Darkonflare15

EsORising wrote: »

Didn't they make it so you can put a dot on people in agony? I don't know what that means though.. Can put that shadow dot on them? can someone else like a mage or dk put a dot? Am i confusing this with petrify the dk skill? I would check the notes but they are like 5 pages long.

The dot is not on a target when they are hit with Agony. They get a dot when Agony is broken. So the description of the skill is wrong. You cannot do any damage while the stun is active or you break the stun but the damage is done when the skill is broken. So you cannot put a dot on a target that is stuck in the Agony's stun.