Nightblade Sap Tank gonna be OP with 1.6?

aco5712

I do it. I know alot of people do it. But is it gonna be too strong?

With the ultimate gen "cap" coming in 1.6, will the NB be too powerful with the transfer passive?

NB's ulti gen with that skill is ridiculous. No other class will be able to gen at the old pace except NBs. This would give NBs a huge advantage. You can drop ultis now every 5-15 seconds. If this stays and all other classes can use it once every minute or something then you have imbalance.

Thoughts from ZOS and the community on this?

NordJitsu

Not only that, they're getting a new active ability to replace haste that passively generates ultimate for 20 secs and then ends in a massive magical bow blast.

aco5712

@NordJitsu‌

They said nothing about it genning ulti? It was like, hit something 8 times to get bow blast wasnt it? i just listened to it and i heard no ulti gen?

Glory

I wouldn't say that Nightblade Sap Tank is going to be OP in 1.6.

Rather, I would say that every other build will be severely gimped and extremely underpowered while the Sap Tank will remain relatively strong.

NordJitsu

Maybe I'm wrong.

I thought by "Minor Damage Done" buff they were talking about the 3 sec ult generation buff you get for landing a light attack (mentioned earlier.)

Perhaps I misunderstood.

aco5712

I think the major and minor damage done are skill buffs. I dont really understand it myself but i dont think that that is what the skill will do. Its just not logical to give that to a class.

Synozeer

I for one welcome our new sap overlords.

ThatHappyCat

NordJitsu wrote: »

Maybe I'm wrong.

I thought by "Minor Damage Done" buff they were talking about the 3 sec ult generation buff you get for landing a light attack (mentioned earlier.)

Perhaps I misunderstood.

You misunderstood. Minor Damage would be a buff like Molten Weapons as opposed to Surge (Major).

danno8

I can guess that "Transfer" will get a nerf, based on the trend that they are trying to pace the rate at which everyone can gain ultimate in order to avoid classes having 100% uptime on ultimates.

It would only make sense given the few changes I have read about.

DeLindsay

danno816_ESO wrote: »

I can guess that "Transfer" will get a nerf, based on the trend that they are trying to pace the rate at which everyone can gain ultimate in order to avoid classes having 100% uptime on ultimates.

It would only make sense given the few changes I have read about.

This. And Sap is getting a decent nerf in PvE content as it will no longer buff Impulse spams for those still using the CS build with the scaling change.

PBpsy

No, not at all from what I have seen.Only thing I can think are DW NB builds becoming even more powerful relative to magicka builds.

Artis

Won't help much on single-target fights.
Also, to actually spam it you would need to be a light armor tank.. Looks like in 1.6 they won't be that durable.. It will be harder to get a lot of armor/spell resist if you're wearing light armor. And heavy armor tanks won't be able to spam sap essence that much.

I think, it's not an issue that NBs will gain more ulti on thrash packs.

aco5712

Artemis wrote: »

Won't help much on single-target fights.
Also, to actually spam it you would need to be a light armor tank.. Looks like in 1.6 they won't be that durable.. It will be harder to get a lot of armor/spell resist if you're wearing light armor. And heavy armor tanks won't be able to spam sap essence that much.

I think, it's not an issue that NBs will gain more ulti on thrash packs.

Im not talking about pve. Pve is a joke with any class. Im talking about pvp where this stuff actually makes a huge difference.

Asgari

aco5712 wrote: »

Artemis wrote: »

Won't help much on single-target fights.
Also, to actually spam it you would need to be a light armor tank.. Looks like in 1.6 they won't be that durable.. It will be harder to get a lot of armor/spell resist if you're wearing light armor. And heavy armor tanks won't be able to spam sap essence that much.

I think, it's not an issue that NBs will gain more ulti on thrash packs.

Im not talking about pve. Pve is a joke with any class. Im talking about pvp where this stuff actually makes a huge difference.

Winning in PvE is like taking your sister to the prom.

Suntzu1414

NB is the " new" DK.

LOL


Kill Well
ST

LegacyDM

Can Someone post their sap build with eq and attributes? Im curious what it looks like.

DeLindsay

joshdm2001_ESO wrote: »

Can Someone post their sap build with eq and attributes? Im curious what it looks like.

7pc Light Armor with cost reduction Jewelry + Sap + VoB, the other 4 ability slots can remain empty

aco5712

joshdm2001_ESO wrote: »

Can Someone post their sap build with eq and attributes? Im curious what it looks like.

Sap build runs 7 light with spell power on 2 jewel and 3rd is your choice. Run sap, siphon attacks, a charge, and the others are your choice.

Jimm_ay

what is a charge? just curious (seriously asking).

Nijjion

Instead of QQ towards DKs now it will be redirected to NBs...

Now us DKs can QQ about other classes... NB fear first thing to be changed! Also Temps aren't safe with Blazing shield either... both need be be tweaked.

DeLindsay

Jimm_ay wrote: »

what is a charge? just curious (seriously asking).

Charge as in gap closer. This can be via the 1H/Shield tree or via the Assassin Tree like Teleport Strike. You can even use Refreshing Path as a charge of sorts.

Kraven

versus Mountain's Blessing DK passive?
Transfer passive at least requires that you deal damage with an ability.

Add to that DK can still cap incoming damage so that they can stand in reds any other tank has to run from and still has the largest self heal in the game.

I'm a NB, I DPS with it more often than tanking lately but I still enjoy tanking with it. I'd say that rather than NB itself being OP we'll see Bloodspawn's and Dragon sets with their Ulti gain being really sought after.

DeLindsay

Kraven wrote: »

versus Mountain's Blessing DK passive?
Transfer passive at least requires that you deal damage with an ability.

Add to that DK can still cap incoming damage so that they can stand in reds any other tank has to run from and still has the largest self heal in the game.

I'm a NB, I DPS with it more often than tanking lately but I still enjoy tanking with it. I'd say that rather than NB itself being OP we'll see Bloodspawn's and Dragon sets with their Ulti gain being really sought after.

I'm fairly sure this thread isn't about PvE NB Tanking, but instead about perma-blocking Sapitty Sap NB's in PvP. The Blood Spawn set is highly sought after for all Tanks, but I have a feeling ZoS is nerfing (oops I mean "balancing") the added gain from Blood Spawn and cost reduction via Dragon and others. They've already said that abilities/passives that generate additional Ultimate are getting "balanced" in 1.6.

eliisra

DK: Mountain's Blessing does the exact same thing as Transfer. The DK passive can also be used outside of combat to build ulti, being a slight advantage when heal spam stops working in 1.6.

Templar: Identical passive called Prism, as in 2 ulti each activated skill. Currently not viable, due to lack of spam-friendly skills in the Dawn's Wrath skill three. But I expect this to change in 1.6, their caster skill line is getting work done. They also have a flat 4% ulti cost reduction.

Sorcerers = 15% ultimate cost reduction on everything.

Only looking at current passives, ulti gain could potentially be balanced in 1.6. But since we dont know what skills will be viable for basic spam, we cant say anything about strong combinations or builds.

Besides, a NB spamming Drain power + morph over and over for ulti or resources is hardly OP. It's not a hard-hitting AoE with nasty secondary effects. It's more of a in-your-face nuisance in PvP, when combined with Siphoning Attacks. I can safely say that I never died from a single sapper lol. AoE tanky DK's however, they actually hurt.

Suntzu1414

One note. that should be substantiated.

That SAP is only effective in "larger groups" (3+ enemies).
The Utl generation + Healing lags up to 3 enemies..

Other Classes Temp + DK have greater utl generation, at lower enemy levels.

Additionally, VOB can easily be negated. Unlike DK movable Banner.

So, the idea that NB will have a sigfnicant advantage under the new system (in my opinion)...is presumptuous.


Kill Well
ST

nukeemstudiosub17_ESO

DeLindsay wrote: »

joshdm2001_ESO wrote: »

Can Someone post their sap build with eq and attributes? Im curious what it looks like.

7pc Light Armor with cost reduction Jewelry + Sap + VoB, the other 4 ability slots can remain empty

Anyone who thinks this is ALL a NB tank needs has obviously NEVER played a NB tank. Or at least were not good at it. It takes A LOT more than a one button spam fest. 75% of a NB time in a group battle is spent trying to survive, as we do not have Green dragon blood or any other great skill to stay alive.

It by no means as easy as a DK. Anyone who says it is simply a one button spam fest has absolutely no idea what they are talking about.

A real NB tank build like mine probably runs 5x light 2xheavy. Sets being willows path 2 heavy pieces cuirass ,grieves and 3 light. With two torugs pact for spell damage. Other sets Blessing of the potinents, Choker, sword/board 10% ult reduction. And have two Band of cyrodill's light.

Skills: Siphoning attacks, Absorb magic from sword and board line, Immovable, Sap essence, and shield charge. Other bar resto staff ward ally, mass hysteria, siphoning attacks(so i dont have to keep turning it back on) Ambush and swallow soul. and ult is bats (cant be negated)

FAR from a one button spam fest.

DeLindsay

nukeemstudiosub17_ESO wrote: »

Anyone who thinks this is ALL a NB tank needs has obviously NEVER played a NB tank. Or at least were not good at it. It takes A LOT more than a one button spam fest. 75% of a NB time in a group battle is spent trying to survive, as we do not have Green dragon blood or any other great skill to stay alive.

It by no means as easy as a DK. Anyone who says it is simply a one button spam fest has absolutely no idea what they are talking about.

A real NB tank build like mine probably runs 5x light 2xheavy. Sets being willows path 2 heavy pieces cuirass ,grieves and 3 light. With two torugs pact for spell damage. Other sets Blessing of the potinents, Choker, sword/board 10% ult reduction. And have two Band of cyrodill's light.

Skills: Siphoning attacks, Absorb magic from sword and board line, Immovable, Sap essence, and shield charge. Other bar resto staff ward ally, mass hysteria, siphoning attacks(so i dont have to keep turning it back on) Ambush and swallow soul. and ult is bats (cant be negated)

FAR from a one button spam fest.

Annnd you obviously don't get sarcasm on the internet. Also this thread is NOT about PvE NB Tanks, it's 100% about perma-blocking Sap Tanks in PvP.

nukeemstudiosub17_ESO

DeLindsay wrote: »

nukeemstudiosub17_ESO wrote: »

Anyone who thinks this is ALL a NB tank needs has obviously NEVER played a NB tank. Or at least were not good at it. It takes A LOT more than a one button spam fest. 75% of a NB time in a group battle is spent trying to survive, as we do not have Green dragon blood or any other great skill to stay alive.

It by no means as easy as a DK. Anyone who says it is simply a one button spam fest has absolutely no idea what they are talking about.

A real NB tank build like mine probably runs 5x light 2xheavy. Sets being willows path 2 heavy pieces cuirass ,grieves and 3 light. With two torugs pact for spell damage. Other sets Blessing of the potinents, Choker, sword/board 10% ult reduction. And have two Band of cyrodill's light.

Skills: Siphoning attacks, Absorb magic from sword and board line, Immovable, Sap essence, and shield charge. Other bar resto staff ward ally, mass hysteria, siphoning attacks(so i dont have to keep turning it back on) Ambush and swallow soul. and ult is bats (cant be negated)

FAR from a one button spam fest.

Annnd you obviously don't get sarcasm on the internet. Also this thread is NOT about PvE NB Tanks, it's 100% about perma-blocking Sap Tanks in PvP.

This was directed at the person asking to post a build they would like to see.
And in part also directed at the foolish comment about "just put sap on bar and leave rest blank." Whether or not it was sarcasm or not.
Im not a PvE tank LOL! Im a PVP 1v15+ NB I was talking about PvP

And why are people crying about something EVERYONE can do? Stamina is not unlimited so whats the issue? Razor Caltrops, couple light or heavy attacks and couple casts of a medium powered skill and enemy stamina pretty much depleted. Not hard to overcome.

Seems like another case of L2P crying for nerfs!
And if you want to cry about the block this isnt the thread. There is another discussion for that! This is a discussion on NBs. At least thats what title said.

Darkintellect

DeLindsay wrote: »

danno816_ESO wrote: »

I can guess that "Transfer" will get a nerf, based on the trend that they are trying to pace the rate at which everyone can gain ultimate in order to avoid classes having 100% uptime on ultimates.

It would only make sense given the few changes I have read about.

This. And Sap is getting a decent nerf in PvE content as it will no longer buff Impulse spams for those still using the CS build with the scaling change.

Which is perfectly fine. I use the healing morph from sap so I only spam that and it's near the same damage as impulse for me. The healing I and my group gets is around 250-300 health per cast.

Draehl

Maybe just change transfer to be a flat amount per cast (would have to do damage to something to proc) So for example maybe buff it from 1/2 ult to 2/4 ult, but it wouldn't scale on number of targets any more. This would effectively keep Sap Essence/Crippling Grasp in check, and be a modest buff to Funnel Health.

DeLindsay

Draehl wrote: »

Maybe just change transfer to be a flat amount per cast (would have to do damage to something to proc) So for example maybe buff it from 1/2 ult to 2/4 ult, but it wouldn't scale on number of targets any more. This would effectively keep Sap Essence/Crippling Grasp in check, and be a modest buff to Funnel Health.

ZoS has already stated that Abilities and Passives that generate additional Ultimate are getting a "balance" pass for 1.6. So there's not really any reason to speculate as to what they could/should do since we know they already ARE doing something.