In Regards to the Upcoming DK Nerf

sagitter

jpalm1995 wrote: »

TheLaw wrote: »

Terrible terrible post...I have a headache now. Take it from someone with a V14 DK/NB/Sorc, the nerf is more than fair. You're forgetting the fact that DKs have incredible offence/CC, not just defense.

In my opinion, this wouldn't be a problem if there were an all around buff to melee dps. Almost everyone is a caster so thats obviously going to make RS really good. If ZOS would make melee dps viable for PvP then more people would be using melee based attacks, making RS effectively "less powerful".

In regards to your comment about their offense/CC, I agree with you. They have great CC and burst dps. The problem with DKs vs the other two dps classes (sorcerer, nightblade) is that they have no way out of the fight once they are in. If a sorc or NB knows he's going to lose a fight, they will most likely BE or stealth out respectively. If a DK can't pop scales then all he can really do is sit there and die... So if they do nerf RS hard like this then a fair thing to do would be to give the DK some form of escaping a fight. We all know thats not going to happen. I'm not arguing against a nerf, I just think that the nerf can come in a different form so as to not harm the main strength of the class.

Ye sorc can Be but nb... all you need is a detect potion to f..k nb invisibility and make it useless. I think is not intended , like inner light and i hope they ll fix it.

Jacques Berge

sagitter wrote: »

jpalm1995 wrote: »

TheLaw wrote: »

Terrible terrible post...I have a headache now. Take it from someone with a V14 DK/NB/Sorc, the nerf is more than fair. You're forgetting the fact that DKs have incredible offence/CC, not just defense.

In my opinion, this wouldn't be a problem if there were an all around buff to melee dps. Almost everyone is a caster so thats obviously going to make RS really good. If ZOS would make melee dps viable for PvP then more people would be using melee based attacks, making RS effectively "less powerful".

In regards to your comment about their offense/CC, I agree with you. They have great CC and burst dps. The problem with DKs vs the other two dps classes (sorcerer, nightblade) is that they have no way out of the fight once they are in. If a sorc or NB knows he's going to lose a fight, they will most likely BE or stealth out respectively. If a DK can't pop scales then all he can really do is sit there and die... So if they do nerf RS hard like this then a fair thing to do would be to give the DK some form of escaping a fight. We all know thats not going to happen. I'm not arguing against a nerf, I just think that the nerf can come in a different form so as to not harm the main strength of the class.

Ye sorc can Be but nb... all you need is a detect potion to f..k nb invisibility and make it useless. I think is not intended , like inner light and i hope they ll fix it.

They said during the guild summit that they were looking into how detect pots interacted with cloak, but there were so many issues with skill already... It's in que to be fixed.

jpalm1995

NordJitsu wrote: »

RS is far from the only survival skill they have. Let's not forget GDB.

And the comparison to BE is hardly apt since that skill was nerfed into oblivion, twice.

I don't know about you, but my magicka pool is big enough on my sorcerer to where I can get off 5 BEs. Thats easily enough to get out of a fight.

Brasseurfb16_ESO

jpalm1995 wrote: »

Brasseurfb16_ESO wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

Suntzu1414 wrote: »

In PVP (now), RS is just being abused.

You have DKs, standing on 2nd levels of keeps...just standing there.
Spamming RS, while protecting other players behind them...(whom are attacking you).

By nerfing this skill... it will make DK players better.
And the game more realistic.


Kill Well
ST

What? RS doesn't protect other players, you can still target them and shoot them. If they can hit you, you can hit them.

Play better? if the DK is doing nothing but reflect stop shooting him. Casting reflect is only harmful if you continue firing at it. No one is forcing you to sit at the bottom of a wall and continually shoot at a DK that is hitting scales over and over.

Yeah we can cast it over and over if we are not doing anything else. And who needs to do anything else when there are people who are willing to shoot themselves in the face over and over at the bottom of a wall knowing that it will be reflected. How is it that the DK needs to play better?

I don't think you understand what Suntzu tries to explain to you. What DK can achieve by exploiting the very core elements of this game is just insane compared to the other classes.

If I get on a wall or even in a small corridor and hide behind a player. If you don't have elevation advantage over me or if you can't get visual angle either, you can't lock any of your single target ranged attacks on me, even with "Tab", because your cursor will target the hitbox from the first player in line unless you actualy get a shooting angle over it.

On the otherhand, I can shoot you from the backline trough that same ally of mine, which you are targeting, because there are no powers that specificaly target allies. So I can abuse that mechanic and shoot at you while you are forced to hit the DK in front of me blocking and/or reflecting every single attacks you do while I stay safe.

Coordinated PvP Guilds use DK blockers right in front of their archers and healers to intercept ennemy players attack cursor and thus deviating shots at them for the single purpose to mitigate most of single target ranged attacks thrown at the group and reflect most of them back at the ennemy team since there is no cap at Reflective Scale. I've seen countless PvP guilds hold Keeps hours because they were exploiting this very core element part of gameplay and because there were no ways to effectively severe the backline holding the frontline up with heals unless they actualy charge in, survive the whole AoE fest and overwhelm the opposing team.

Its also why its very important as a ranged player to always use the hitbox from tougher allies to actualy protect yourself from charge moves and ranged attacks from opposing factions.

I think this is totally acceptable though. Strategy and organization should trump a bunch of PUGs zerging a keep.

I don't have any issue either with people using this method of cover. But I do believe Dragon Scale is a very powerfull ability, and maybe too effective, in its current state (and it's not the only one) but instead of nerfing this ability I rather see more abilities involving ways to counter it.

Adding for instance more abilities which dispel or silence a player would be a good start. I'm kinda waiting the spellcrafting update to complement it with that suggestion should the Devs forget about those 2 very important mechanics which could be game changers.

Armitas

NordJitsu wrote: »

I would either:

1) Keep as is except the DK reflects 90% of the damage and still takes the rest

Or

2) Turn it into a toggle where each reflected projectile drains a certain amount of magicka. This is my preferred choice because it would add some strategic decision-making as to whether you want to be more offensive or more defensive.

If DK's need a nerf then #1 is acceptable IMO. #2 would be fine as well except for the silly 2 slot requirement for toggles. I have 2 concerns with the current nerf and your suggestions cover both of my concerns as well as seeming fair and informed if it needs to be nerfed.

jpalm1995

Brasseurfb16_ESO wrote: »

jpalm1995 wrote: »

Brasseurfb16_ESO wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

Suntzu1414 wrote: »

In PVP (now), RS is just being abused.

You have DKs, standing on 2nd levels of keeps...just standing there.
Spamming RS, while protecting other players behind them...(whom are attacking you).

By nerfing this skill... it will make DK players better.
And the game more realistic.


Kill Well
ST

What? RS doesn't protect other players, you can still target them and shoot them. If they can hit you, you can hit them.

Play better? if the DK is doing nothing but reflect stop shooting him. Casting reflect is only harmful if you continue firing at it. No one is forcing you to sit at the bottom of a wall and continually shoot at a DK that is hitting scales over and over.

Yeah we can cast it over and over if we are not doing anything else. And who needs to do anything else when there are people who are willing to shoot themselves in the face over and over at the bottom of a wall knowing that it will be reflected. How is it that the DK needs to play better?

I don't think you understand what Suntzu tries to explain to you. What DK can achieve by exploiting the very core elements of this game is just insane compared to the other classes.

If I get on a wall or even in a small corridor and hide behind a player. If you don't have elevation advantage over me or if you can't get visual angle either, you can't lock any of your single target ranged attacks on me, even with "Tab", because your cursor will target the hitbox from the first player in line unless you actualy get a shooting angle over it.

On the otherhand, I can shoot you from the backline trough that same ally of mine, which you are targeting, because there are no powers that specificaly target allies. So I can abuse that mechanic and shoot at you while you are forced to hit the DK in front of me blocking and/or reflecting every single attacks you do while I stay safe.

Coordinated PvP Guilds use DK blockers right in front of their archers and healers to intercept ennemy players attack cursor and thus deviating shots at them for the single purpose to mitigate most of single target ranged attacks thrown at the group and reflect most of them back at the ennemy team since there is no cap at Reflective Scale. I've seen countless PvP guilds hold Keeps hours because they were exploiting this very core element part of gameplay and because there were no ways to effectively severe the backline holding the frontline up with heals unless they actualy charge in, survive the whole AoE fest and overwhelm the opposing team.

Its also why its very important as a ranged player to always use the hitbox from tougher allies to actualy protect yourself from charge moves and ranged attacks from opposing factions.

I think this is totally acceptable though. Strategy and organization should trump a bunch of PUGs zerging a keep.

I don't have any issue either with people using this method of cover. But I do believe Dragon Scale is a very powerfull ability, and maybe too effective, in its current state (and it's not the only one) but instead of nerfing this ability I rather see more abilities involving ways to counter it.

Adding for instance more abilities which dispel or silence a player would be a good start. I'm kinda waiting the spellcrafting update to complement it with that suggestion should the Devs forget about those 2 very important mechanics which could be game changers.

You and I are on the same page. I would like to see buffs to other abilities that make reflective scale effectively weaker.

Cody

DKs are honestly only up in arms over this because the class has had it made the past 3-5 months.

It wil be interesting to see how PvP turns out after this change goes through.

david.haypreub18_ESO

Cody wrote: »

DKs are honestly only up in arms over this because the class has had it made the past 3-5 months.

3-5 months? I would say since launch. Sure, DKs have had their bugs and nerfs, but at no point in the last 9 months have they ever been in the 'not doing so well category'... unlike all the other classes.

zaria

AllPlayAndNoWork wrote: »

After casting, the next Reflective Scales cast within 4 seconds costs 50% more.

DK's get to keep some survivability. Restricting it to 4 means that 6 players could kill a DK in a few seconds. That's no survivability.

6 against 1 and the 6 will always win fast, exception is dungeon bosses and DK.

Pmarsico9

Where is this proposed change??????? Please provide a link.

Armitas

Pmarsico9 wrote: »

Where is this proposed change??????? Please provide a link.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi all, just popping in to let you know that we do have plans to adjust Reflective Scales in Update 6. Currently, you can reflect an infinite number of projectiles per cast; we will be setting a maximum number of projectiles that the ability can reflect per cast, the maximum being four. We look forward to hearing your feedback on this once it's available to test on the PTS.

Cody

david.haypreub18_ESO wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

DKs are honestly only up in arms over this because the class has had it made the past 3-5 months.

3-5 months? I would say since launch. Sure, DKs have had their bugs and nerfs, but at no point in the last 9 months have they ever been in the 'not doing so well category'... unlike all the other classes.

I was trying to be lenient about it. lol.

I am fully aware that DKs have been OP since launch. I was here for hopesfire....

you think thornblade is bad? hopesfire was.... special