race balance issue final fix :)

prototypefb

It would be awesome if racial passives would be dropped, leaving only one weapon & one armor type skill( +15-25% skill leveling exp), by all means keep argonian +50% swimspeed and khajiit plushiness

Other skills should be tied to character level(1-50 or whatever next system might be), each lvl 1 point in any type of following(20 points max in each):

• max magicka +0.5%
• max stamina +0.5%
• max health +0.5%
• magicka recovery +1%
• stamina recovery +1%
• health recovery +1.5%
• healing done +1%
• healing received +1%
• weapon critical hit chance +1%
• spell critical chance +1%
• weapon damage +1
• spell damage +1
• spell critical damage +1%
• weapon critical damage +1%
• armor penetration +2%
• spell penetration +2%
• armor resistance +3%
• spell resistance +3%
• fire resistance +5%
• ice resistance +5%
• lightning resistance +5%
• disease resistance +5%
• poison resistance +5%
• elemental(fire, ice, lightning, disease, poison) damage done +2%
• stealth detection radius +1m
• stealth radius -1m
• stealth damage +2%
• siege weapon damage +5%
• ranged weapon skill range +0.5m
• moving speed(including horse speed, stealth speed) +2%
• sprint speed(including horse sprint) +2%
• sprint cost -5%
• stealth cost -5%
• 1% damage absorbed as magicka
• 1% damage absorbed as stamina
• 1% damage absorbed as health
• 2% critical damage absorbed as magicka
• 2% critical damage absorbed as stamina
• 2% critical damage absorbed as health
• block cost -2%
• block mitigation +2%
• block penetration +3%
• potion cooldown reduction -1s
• armor/weapon/jewelery enchantments +5%
• dodge chance +0.5%
• reflect spell chance +0.5%
• ressurect speed +10%
• skill channel time reduction -5%
• damage mitigation +0.5%
• aoe damage received reduction 2.5%
• CC break cost reduction(including dodge roll) +5%
• resource cost(health, stamina, magicka and ultimate) -0.5%
• mundus stone effect +10%
• chance to aoe(max 2 extra targets 5m radius) splash damage on ligth/heavy attacks 25% of damage done to each target
• anything else i forgot
• any other cool suggestion

Add new shrine for resetting these points and million hour fun/testing will begin!

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom

AngryNord

No.
The differences between the races, and some races being geared more towards certain roles, are such a big part of the ES lore that it should be kept.

sirston

No, I am imperial so I am better then you in sword and board and it should stay that way.
khajiit's and argonian's always cause trouble, with these post.

timidobserver

My favorite thing about races in ESO is that they aren't generic/mostly aesthetics like races in GW2. There is actually major differences and pros and cons to the races. I am in favor of keeping that.

kongkim

No.. Bad ide.

prototypefb

this way races still get start boost to leveling race specific armor/weapon skill but each payer is able to choose way to continue ''play how you like'' even after he gets bored with initial build, he can reset and continue ''play as he likes''.

xMovingTarget

You are born Human! Now deal with it!

prototypefb

xMovingTarget wrote: »

You are born Human! Now deal with it!

this is a game, and quite good one, tho need lot of tweaking, deal with it

prototypefb

kongkim wrote: »

No.. Bad ide.

i disagree

AngryNord

prototypefb wrote: »

kongkim wrote: »

No.. Bad ide.

i disagree

And I disagree with you :P

prototypefb

AngryNord wrote: »

prototypefb wrote: »

kongkim wrote: »

No.. Bad ide.

i disagree

And I disagree with you :P

i completely disagree!

Terror

no thanks, I'm happy with racial benefits.

kongkim

prototypefb wrote: »

AngryNord wrote: »

prototypefb wrote: »

kongkim wrote: »

No.. Bad ide.

i disagree

And I disagree with you :P

i completely disagree!

And i disagree with you disagree.

Lord_Kreegan

Sorry, but we don't get to (re-)design the game to our own personal preferences, especially not at the expense of everyone else's preferences.

Run a poll or something to find out how overwhelmingly this idea will be disliked. There is lore associated with Elder Scrolls and a large number of players here are playing because they like the lore and have been playing the Elder Scrolls' games for a very long time.

prototypefb

Lord_Kreegan wrote: »

Sorry, but we don't get to (re-)design the game to our own personal preferences, especially not at the expense of everyone else's preferences.

Run a poll or something to find out how overwhelmingly this idea will be disliked. There is lore associated with Elder Scrolls and a large number of players here are playing because they like the lore and have been playing the Elder Scrolls' games for a very long time.

i agree people might not like change at first but ESO was supposed to be ''play as you like'' game and when you try melee or stealth melee(used to) and build just doesn't work, you want to try something else, magicka perhaps or tank build, but you figure out your racial is only designed for stealth melee(yes, khajiit) and stealth is crap and melee is worse, time invested(achievements, thousands of quests etc) in character is too great to just abandon/delete char and start over.
i did abandon my khajiit because racials do mean a lot, even if some people think it's no big deal.
once champion system and weapon overhaul takes place it might finally be possible to ''play as you like'' but still if you all of a sudden want to try new build for your beloved character you might find it is not suited for role you want it to become, compared to other races.

kongkim

prototypefb wrote: »

Lord_Kreegan wrote: »

Sorry, but we don't get to (re-)design the game to our own personal preferences, especially not at the expense of everyone else's preferences.

Run a poll or something to find out how overwhelmingly this idea will be disliked. There is lore associated with Elder Scrolls and a large number of players here are playing because they like the lore and have been playing the Elder Scrolls' games for a very long time.

i agree people might not like change at first but ESO was supposed to be ''play as you like'' game and when you try melee or stealth melee(used to) and build just doesn't work, you want to try something else, magicka perhaps or tank build, but you figure out your racial is only designed for stealth melee(yes, khajiit) and stealth is crap and melee is worse, time invested(achievements, thousands of quests etc) in character is too great to just abandon/delete char and start over.
i did abandon my khajiit because racials do mean a lot, even if some people think it's no big deal.
once champion system and weapon overhaul takes place it might finally be possible to ''play as you like'' but still if you all of a sudden want to try new build for your beloved character you might find it is not suited for role you want it to become, compared to other races.

The race bonuses do not change your build that much. You can still make a magic user with a nord etc. ofc. if you are super hardcore and all is about endgame...

Yolokin_Swagonborn

Argonians should stealth quicker and have smaller detection radius in STANDING water.

There is tons of standing water in the game. This would be fun.

zaria

AngryNord wrote: »

No.
The differences between the races, and some races being geared more towards certain roles, are such a big part of the ES lore that it should be kept.

Yes, and the difference is large enough to be an nice bonus while not large enough to limit classes to races.

lolo_01b16_ESO

Perfect idea. I would use 15 in potion cooldown, 20 in channeltime and 12 in cc break costs. In combenation with the right gear that would mean:
cc break for free
no cooldown on potions
everything being an instant cast

But even appart from your unbalanced suggestions I like it the way we have at the moment, that different classes have different class skills. As others mentioned before you don't need to have the perfect class to play the game. I play a Bosmer templar and people frequently ask me to heal them in vet dungeons, trials and even their hardmodes.

jeanette

Actually, I almost think that ESO is a bit too free. I like the idea of carefully choosing which race, class, and skills to use. Ofcourse, I still love the idea of freedom, and having all these skill lines are great, I love that I can use whichever weapon to use. But with all this freedom we lose the tactical part of it, to carefully chose which race to use with which class. Don't take away the last tactical non-refundable choise we have.

Leeric

They are fine. With CS coming out it would be a pointless change.

Nysticc

It's be great if they put these as a proc when you craft armor.

Tonnopesce

As usual....... cat's paranoid issues.
Sorry but deal with it.
Racial passives at max level dont do so much difference and with the champ sistem you can try a build and respec endlessly so not a prob imho
(Btw argonians have the worst passives in game ant it was always like this but you have to pay a price to be awesome!!!!!)

AlexDougherty

timidobserver wrote: »

My favorite thing about races in ESO is that they aren't generic/mostly aesthetics like races in GW2. There is actually major differences and pros and cons to the races. I am in favor of keeping that.

I agree, it adds to the flavour of the ESO brand, it doesn't mean you can't create an Orc Sorc or a Nord Dragonknight, just means you get a feel for the TES universe.

Digiman

Okay I seem to be forgetting but racials actually cost SP to invest in to be effective? Isn't that a fair enough trade off, don't like it invest in some skills instead?

I don't see why I have implement homogenization like they tried with WoW because of one freaking PvP event that required 3 players!

AlexDougherty

Digiman wrote: »

Okay I seem to be forgetting but racials actually cost SP to invest in to be effective? Isn't that a fair enough trade off, don't like it invest in some skills instead?

I don't see why I have implement homogenization like they tried with WoW because of one freaking PvP event that required 3 players!

Indeed, my Khajiit Templar didn't invest in his Racial Stealth bonus (no reason for him to, he's a Templar), but his other racials make him feel different from say a Breton Templar.

Likewise my Nord DK is going to feel and play different to my Dunmer DK, does this make him less, no, it just makes him different.

If the racials for a particular character don't fill you with joy, then invest them elsewhere, like Armour or Weapon skills.

Dragath

Balancing the Racials this way seems a bit blunt, but id take it.
Its a lot better than Racials that are so unbalanced.

Hagbard_OM

Okay. First of all...

Racial abilities have never been "balanced." Since release, various races have had abilities that gave them innate advantages over other races when filling certain roles. This is nothing new.

When I created my first characters, after playing in the Beta and doing some number crunching, I determined that the advantages gained from the racial abilities were small enough in the endgame not to overrule aesthetic preference when creating a character.

So, in the past, I have been in the "leave racial abilities alone" crowd (for many of the same reasons that people still argue in that direction).

However, things have changed.

Specifically, 1.6 has changed everything.

The boost to the raw values of stats combined with the complete removal of softcaps means that percentage-based attribute bonuses are suddenly MUCH more powerful than they were in the pre-1.6 game.

Even if you totally discount the raw stat value boost (which IS kind of a big deal), think about this. In the current game, pretty much everyone runs at or above the softcap. Generally speaking, most people run well over the softcap in their primary build attribute. This means that (assuming they picked a race that gave them stat boosts in a desirable area) they are only getting 50% contribution from any racial attribute boosts. Those caps are going the way of the dodo. So, at a bare minimum, racial attribute boosts are about to become twice as powerful as they currently are. As I mentioned earlier, the increase to the raw values of all stats will make this change even more pronounced.

Long story short, the racial attribute bonuses and (useful) special abilities are about to become a lot more powerful.

So, the way I see it, we have two options.

1. We can address the situation.

2. We can sit on our backsides and watch the "undesirable" races become borderline extinct in the game.

To be perfectly honest, number two is already happening more than it should. I am sick to death of Dark Elf DK's, Breton Templars, Imperial... well... you get the picture. I would dearly love to see more Argonians, Orcs, etc. in the game. Although I do not feel that way under the current system, it is obvious to me that a lot of people already feel "forced" into playing certain race/class combinations by their need/desire to min/max. Again... this is about to get a LOT worse.

So, assuming that we are willing to fix the situation, how should we go about doing it? Well, I have given this issue quite a bit of thought, and here is my suggested solution:


Give all races access to a single unified racial skill tree that incorporates a wide variety of existing racial skills.

Organize them into four tiers (or "trees) just like they are now: experience gain (or other “junk” ability) skill, stat boost skill, special ability skill, etc. Granted, this would need a little balancing. For, example, none of the various stat-boost skills should provide a clear total numerical advantage over any of the other options.

Let people pick what they want.

This would allow people to play the race they want for cosmetic effect while choosing racial skills that benefit their intended build. If they decided to respec into a different build, they could alter their racial abilities to suit their new focus. For hardcore RPers who don't give a skeever's bottom about min/maxing, this system could be even better as it opens up a ton of "non-standard" possibilities. Play the race you want, HOW you want to play it.

I’m having a pretty hard time seeing this as anything other than an optimal solution.


There is, of course, a viable counterargument from a lore perspective, but honestly… is it really inconceivable that a specific Nord could be as good at running as an Orc or that a Redguard who had spent his/her entire life on ships and at sea could be as strong a swimmer as an Argonian? Considering that player characters are supposed to be outliers in the first place (exceptional individuals), this isn’t really much of a stretch lore-wise.

In any case, is it any more lore-breaking than having 99% of all of the DK's in the game (regardless of faction) being Dark Elves??


Developers, please give this a read and at least consider it. I honestly do think this is the best possible solution to this problem - the one that would provide the most people with the ability to play the game the way they want.

Thank you.

newtinmpls

I think that some folks are confusing "play as you like" with "I want whatever I want and I'm going to whine because I don't already have it"

Dragath

racial balance is really off and does need some changes.
i like the "choose whatever racial you want" idea, but i doubt they would do that.

Locke_ESO

So I decided to test out the differences between a race with no racial bonus vs an Altmer on PTS for a "pure" magicka Sorcerer (my class) using some of the more common skills. Obviously this is a big change in 1.6 and there has been some discussion on the forum already but I wasn't certain how significant it was until I tested it.

Race w/o any bonuses +31 Magicka/+31 health

Crystal Shard = 3714 Dmg
Crushing Shock = 2856 Dmg +471 burn DoT
Daedric Curse = 3203 Dmg
Light attack = 781 Dmg

Hardened Ward = 5174 shield
Harness Magicka = 5862 shield


Altmer with racial bonuses +31 Magicka/+31 health

Crystal Shard = 3921 Dmg (5.5% difference)
Crushing Shock = 3135 Dmg +489 burn DoT (8.9% difference)
Daedric Curse = 3381 Dmg (5.5% difference)
Light attack = 831 Dmg (8.7% difference)

Hardened Ward = 5691 shield (+520 shield 9.9% difference)
Harness Magicka = 6448 shield ( +586 shield 9.9% difference)

Obviously some of this is marginally offset by the different bonuses available but I think anyone who likes to optimise their character will be taking a long look at the racial bonuses. Killing a dungeon/trial boss 5.5-9% faster or having 10% more shields because you picked "the right race" is significant. There is also the cumulative affect of how other bonuses coming from the Champion system, abilities and gear will increase the damage gap further on a figures basis.

The obvious solution is to either re-add a soft cap, change the racial bonuses to better match or change the system entirely. Leaving as it is will just lead to a lack of diversity in races being picked because the differences are too large in effectiveness.