Discussion: Nightblade Skills

LegacyDM

Jacques Berge wrote: »

Draehl wrote: »

In PvP. It would be nice to have a sustained damage option for PvE. Logically that would be the shades but they just don't live up to it. Maybe have a conditional effect that they deal less damage in PvP? Or would buffing the damage by 50-100% be unbalanced in PvP on top the stam drain?

shades is one of the only skills in the game that has 2 good morphs. Summon shades is great for me in pvp, I love em. Their effect isn't exactly imperical in the sense of numbers. Shades is one of the best utility skills in the game in my opinion, good in pvp and end game PVE. Have a damage boost would be close to OP, considering they can't be killed. Simply put, it's a utility skill, does not need to be earth shattering, it's a low cost, fire and forget debuff with a minor DoT. Plus, you ever seen this used on an inexperienced player? It's ther funniest thing you'll ever see in game.

I'm still trying to figure out why people swear by shades. Throw shades on a sword and board DK or a blazing shield Templar, it doesn't do ****. It seems players have figured out how to perma block. Shades doesn't do enough stamina drain.

If ZOS isn't going to change block mechanics they need to buff class skills to include stamina debuffs because shades currently is crappy.

Jacques Berge

joshdm2001_ESO wrote: »

Jacques Berge wrote: »

Draehl wrote: »

In PvP. It would be nice to have a sustained damage option for PvE. Logically that would be the shades but they just don't live up to it. Maybe have a conditional effect that they deal less damage in PvP? Or would buffing the damage by 50-100% be unbalanced in PvP on top the stam drain?

shades is one of the only skills in the game that has 2 good morphs. Summon shades is great for me in pvp, I love em. Their effect isn't exactly imperical in the sense of numbers. Shades is one of the best utility skills in the game in my opinion, good in pvp and end game PVE. Have a damage boost would be close to OP, considering they can't be killed. Simply put, it's a utility skill, does not need to be earth shattering, it's a low cost, fire and forget debuff with a minor DoT. Plus, you ever seen this used on an inexperienced player? It's ther funniest thing you'll ever see in game.

I'm still trying to figure out why people swear by shades. Throw shades on a sword and board DK or a blazing shield Templar, it doesn't do ****. It seems players have figured out how to perma block. Shades doesn't do enough stamina drain.

If ZOS isn't going to change block mechanics they need to buff class skills to include stamina debuffs because shades currently is crappy.

I respectfully disagree. Shades has always done wonders for me. Maybe you should respect that other people's gameplay style and experience is going to produce different results than what you have found. I have no doubt that you have come across indivduals who know how to deal with shades. But there's still plenty of folks out there who don't, enough to warrant the skills use. That's my opinion at least.

Draehl

My only disagreement on Dark Shades is that in PvE they don't do enough extra sustained damage to outclass the utility of Shadow Image. I understand the "stam drain factor" in PvP, but could that not be addressed similar to Streak? Just buff the base damage of both morphs and apply a 50% penalty in PvP. Two shades, even with the damage penalty, will do noticeably more damage compared to Shadow Image when the base damage is higher.

LegacyDM

Jacques Berge wrote: »

joshdm2001_ESO wrote: »

Jacques Berge wrote: »

Draehl wrote: »

In PvP. It would be nice to have a sustained damage option for PvE. Logically that would be the shades but they just don't live up to it. Maybe have a conditional effect that they deal less damage in PvP? Or would buffing the damage by 50-100% be unbalanced in PvP on top the stam drain?

shades is one of the only skills in the game that has 2 good morphs. Summon shades is great for me in pvp, I love em. Their effect isn't exactly imperical in the sense of numbers. Shades is one of the best utility skills in the game in my opinion, good in pvp and end game PVE. Have a damage boost would be close to OP, considering they can't be killed. Simply put, it's a utility skill, does not need to be earth shattering, it's a low cost, fire and forget debuff with a minor DoT. Plus, you ever seen this used on an inexperienced player? It's ther funniest thing you'll ever see in game.

I'm still trying to figure out why people swear by shades. Throw shades on a sword and board DK or a blazing shield Templar, it doesn't do ****. It seems players have figured out how to perma block. Shades doesn't do enough stamina drain.

If ZOS isn't going to change block mechanics they need to buff class skills to include stamina debuffs because shades currently is crappy.

I respectfully disagree. Shades has always done wonders for me. Maybe you should respect that other people's gameplay style and experience is going to produce different results than what you have found. I have no doubt that you have come across indivduals who know how to deal with shades. But there's still plenty of folks out there who don't, enough to warrant the skills use. That's my opinion at least.

I'm sorry, do you play on thornblsde?! 99% of the individuals on thornblade are not noobs who don't know how to deal with shades. I wish I recorded the pvp fight I witnessed last night. I came across 3 individuals fighting a DK. I said, what the hell I'll run a test and give shades another try, thinking that shades would drain his stamina enough to drop his shields and give me a window to ambush and conceal weapon among the other spells I cast. Casted shades multiple times and watched the DK tank 3 people and two shades while perma blocking and casting for an entire minute. It took a Zerg group to roll up and take out the DK. Now the situation I witnessed is the norm on thorblade. It happens all the time. Shades does nothing against blazing shield. Shades does nothing against a bolt escape sorc with spell shields.shades does nothing against a DK. Now maybe on a 1vs1 against a noob, shades, does wonders for you, but on thorblade, against experienced players it's pretty terrible.

Jacques Berge

joshdm2001_ESO wrote: »

Jacques Berge wrote: »

joshdm2001_ESO wrote: »

Jacques Berge wrote: »

Draehl wrote: »

In PvP. It would be nice to have a sustained damage option for PvE. Logically that would be the shades but they just don't live up to it. Maybe have a conditional effect that they deal less damage in PvP? Or would buffing the damage by 50-100% be unbalanced in PvP on top the stam drain?

shades is one of the only skills in the game that has 2 good morphs. Summon shades is great for me in pvp, I love em. Their effect isn't exactly imperical in the sense of numbers. Shades is one of the best utility skills in the game in my opinion, good in pvp and end game PVE. Have a damage boost would be close to OP, considering they can't be killed. Simply put, it's a utility skill, does not need to be earth shattering, it's a low cost, fire and forget debuff with a minor DoT. Plus, you ever seen this used on an inexperienced player? It's ther funniest thing you'll ever see in game.

I'm still trying to figure out why people swear by shades. Throw shades on a sword and board DK or a blazing shield Templar, it doesn't do ****. It seems players have figured out how to perma block. Shades doesn't do enough stamina drain.

If ZOS isn't going to change block mechanics they need to buff class skills to include stamina debuffs because shades currently is crappy.

I respectfully disagree. Shades has always done wonders for me. Maybe you should respect that other people's gameplay style and experience is going to produce different results than what you have found. I have no doubt that you have come across indivduals who know how to deal with shades. But there's still plenty of folks out there who don't, enough to warrant the skills use. That's my opinion at least.

I'm sorry, do you play on thornblsde?! 99% of the individuals on thornblade are not noobs who don't know how to deal with shades. I wish I recorded the pvp fight I witnessed last night. I came across 3 individuals fighting a DK. I said, what the hell I'll run a test and give shades another try, thinking that shades would drain his stamina enough to drop his shields and give me a window to ambush and conceal weapon among the other spells I cast. Casted shades multiple times and watched the DK tank 3 people and two shades while perma blocking and casting for an entire minute. It took a Zerg group to roll up and take out the DK. Now the situation I witnessed is the norm on thorblade. It happens all the time. Shades does nothing against blazing shield. Shades does nothing against a bolt escape sorc with spell shields.shades does nothing against a DK. Now maybe on a 1vs1 against a noob, shades, does wonders for you, but on thorblade, against experienced players it's pretty terrible.

Ok, calm down bro. I don't understand why you're so aggressive. Yes, shades isn't going to very effective against a tanky ass DK, but if you and 3 other guys can't take out a single person maybe you should do some self evaluation. Maybe you don't have the L337 skills you thought you had. I'm calling operator error on this one.

LegacyDM

Jacques Berge wrote: »

joshdm2001_ESO wrote: »

Jacques Berge wrote: »

joshdm2001_ESO wrote: »

Jacques Berge wrote: »

Draehl wrote: »

In PvP. It would be nice to have a sustained damage option for PvE. Logically that would be the shades but they just don't live up to it. Maybe have a conditional effect that they deal less damage in PvP? Or would buffing the damage by 50-100% be unbalanced in PvP on top the stam drain?

shades is one of the only skills in the game that has 2 good morphs. Summon shades is great for me in pvp, I love em. Their effect isn't exactly imperical in the sense of numbers. Shades is one of the best utility skills in the game in my opinion, good in pvp and end game PVE. Have a damage boost would be close to OP, considering they can't be killed. Simply put, it's a utility skill, does not need to be earth shattering, it's a low cost, fire and forget debuff with a minor DoT. Plus, you ever seen this used on an inexperienced player? It's ther funniest thing you'll ever see in game.

I'm still trying to figure out why people swear by shades. Throw shades on a sword and board DK or a blazing shield Templar, it doesn't do ****. It seems players have figured out how to perma block. Shades doesn't do enough stamina drain.

If ZOS isn't going to change block mechanics they need to buff class skills to include stamina debuffs because shades currently is crappy.

I respectfully disagree. Shades has always done wonders for me. Maybe you should respect that other people's gameplay style and experience is going to produce different results than what you have found. I have no doubt that you have come across indivduals who know how to deal with shades. But there's still plenty of folks out there who don't, enough to warrant the skills use. That's my opinion at least.

I'm sorry, do you play on thornblsde?! 99% of the individuals on thornblade are not noobs who don't know how to deal with shades. I wish I recorded the pvp fight I witnessed last night. I came across 3 individuals fighting a DK. I said, what the hell I'll run a test and give shades another try, thinking that shades would drain his stamina enough to drop his shields and give me a window to ambush and conceal weapon among the other spells I cast. Casted shades multiple times and watched the DK tank 3 people and two shades while perma blocking and casting for an entire minute. It took a Zerg group to roll up and take out the DK. Now the situation I witnessed is the norm on thorblade. It happens all the time. Shades does nothing against blazing shield. Shades does nothing against a bolt escape sorc with spell shields.shades does nothing against a DK. Now maybe on a 1vs1 against a noob, shades, does wonders for you, but on thorblade, against experienced players it's pretty terrible.

Ok, calm down bro. I don't understand why you're so aggressive. Yes, shades isn't going to very effective against a tanky ass DK, but if you and 3 other guys can't take out a single person maybe you should do some self evaluation. Maybe you don't have the L337 skills you thought you had. I'm calling operator error on this one.

Lol, no ones being aggressive. Just calling it like it is. Shades does nothing to the majority of experienced players on thornblade.

Never claimed to have elite skills, bro,

Grim13

Zenimax need to sort out their *** attitude toward fixing Cloak. They promised they'd fixed it several months ago, they failed, and we've not heard a peep out of them since.

I am sick to death of having Cloak AND invisiblity potions fail in PvP. (..and yes, I am aware of detect pots).

I use an invis potion with a 10 sec speed boost and the bloody speed boost fails right along with the invisibility, ffs!

There's also a stuck in combat bug that needs serious fixing.



WHAT IS THE STATUS ON FIXING CLOAK / STEALTH IN PVP!?

Cody

Draehl wrote: »

Jacques Berge wrote: »

Draehl wrote: »

In PvP. It would be nice to have a sustained damage option for PvE. Logically that would be the shades but they just don't live up to it. Maybe have a conditional effect that they deal less damage in PvP? Or would buffing the damage by 50-100% be unbalanced in PvP on top the stam drain?

shades is one of the only skills in the game that has 2 good morphs. Summon shades is great for me in pvp, I love em. Their effect isn't exactly imperical in the sense of numbers. Shades is one of the best utility skills in the game in my opinion, good in pvp and end game PVE. Have a damage boost would be close to OP, considering they can't be killed. Simply put, it's a utility skill, does not need to be earth shattering, it's a low cost, fire and forget debuff with a minor DoT. Plus, you ever seen this used on an inexperienced player? It's ther funniest thing you'll ever see in game.

Fair enough, but again, shades in PvE compared to having the teleport of Shadow Image just don't compare, especially with the attached damage penalty mostly wiping out the gains of using two, which would be the logical choice if you wanted them to up your sustained damage more.

I suppose I'm just frustrated with the overall poor DoTs in this game and they are what needs adjusting. Crippling Grasp does decent damage (~2x that of Funnel Health) but the main use of the skill is really the Immob/slow/speed boost- one skill slot for a mediocre improvement to throughput just wouldn't cut it without that utility. Agony is just terrible. Entropy is even worse. Soul Trap is a joke. I desperately want to play a DoT + defensive/CC build like I have in games past, but nuking/aoe seem to be the only viable options here. It would be amazing to have just 1 strong throughput DoT. 10-15s duration. Damage of 3-4 nukes, but spread out over time and perhaps backloaded? The reason I mention shades is because they last a good duration. While they might not do strong DPS, a mild-moderate increase in damage could turn it into a solid damage-per-cast skill, again spread out over time. Soul Trap is probably a good candidate for a raw-throughput Dot, that way everyone has access and it wouldn't be class specific.

Well most DoTs can be blocked.... so... yeah:(

Cody

I have used shades on perma blockers and have witnessed some truly ridiculous things. Heck I once jumped a perma blocker, hit him with 30-50 light attacks, WITH shades up, WITH flurries and fears put in, his block NEVER went down. The fact the game rewards perma blocking so well is very frustrating.

/sigh

ANYWAY, yeah shades does not always work. Some people just never seem to run out of stamina.:( Must be dodging.

TheBull

#BuffBlurr
#GetRidOfAgony

Knootewoot

I have another question regarding NB. Sometimes i get jumped on by another NB. I die instant, even when on full health (2900 in cyrodill). I have maxed magicka, spell resistance and magicka regeneration. I wear full seducer and 4 pieces magnus (with dual wield) all impenetrable. And im a vampire.

I look at death recap and only see: Ambush->camo hunter->soul harvest

But when i use camo hunter, then ambush and soul harvest i cannot get people to die that fast.

Do i do something wrong or do i overlook something? I sometimes switch to stamina build (wearing full hundus and 4 pieces ashen) so i have max stamina and i still die quick from above but i do better damage myself using rapid strikes.

What do i do wrong?

Jacques Berge

Knootewoot wrote: »

I have another question regarding NB. Sometimes i get jumped on by another NB. I die instant, even when on full health (2900 in cyrodill). I have maxed magicka, spell resistance and magicka regeneration. I wear full seducer and 4 pieces magnus (with dual wield) all impenetrable. And im a vampire.

I look at death recap and only see: Ambush->camo hunter->soul harvest

But when i use camo hunter, then ambush and soul harvest i cannot get people to die that fast.

Do i do something wrong or do i overlook something? I sometimes switch to stamina build (wearing full hundus and 4 pieces ashen) so i have max stamina and i still die quick from above but i do better damage myself using rapid strikes.

What do i do wrong?

Guy may be stacking penetration, spell power and also may be procing camo hunter on the soul harvest. Using harness/dampen magicka to negate the camo hunter. Doing that can give you enough time to mark and cloak so you can get em back.

Knootewoot

Thanks, ill look into it. My stamina NB is very squishy. I can kill people with it, but if it fails i have to get away quick. My magicka build can survive longer and gets away more easily. Also for group i use magicka more with one handed and shield and use sap essence a lot.
But i played all TES game as a bow wielder burglar type of guy using also a dagger with small shield and medium armor (light in Oblivion and skyrim). So it is hard for me to do different in this game. But on the other hand i also want to be effective in PvP. Dilemma's, dilemma's

LegacyDM

Knootewoot wrote: »

I have another question regarding NB. Sometimes i get jumped on by another NB. I die instant, even when on full health (2900 in cyrodill). I have maxed magicka, spell resistance and magicka regeneration. I wear full seducer and 4 pieces magnus (with dual wield) all impenetrable. And im a vampire.

I look at death recap and only see: Ambush->camo hunter->soul harvest

But when i use camo hunter, then ambush and soul harvest i cannot get people to die that fast.

Do i do something wrong or do i overlook something? I sometimes switch to stamina build (wearing full hundus and 4 pieces ashen) so i have max stamina and i still die quick from above but i do better damage myself using rapid strikes.

What do i do wrong?

Yeah I've experienced this too. I hit spell damage and weapon damage cap, but can't seem to instant kill like you are describing. I've tried using Stygian set, archers mind set, hunding rage, and various combinations, while maxing stamina and or magicka stat. I use the same attack sequence as most people from stealth.

There's something weird going on. ive seen other NB able to instant chain cast spells while weaving light attack in a span <1 sec for instant kill. I've asked around my guilds and people have said there is a way to glitch the attacks to do this. Not sure how true this is but I can't put my finger on why there is a descrepency.