any news on 1.6?

Nightreaver

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

I also said that lava whip and various other class skills that are practically melee should cost stamina, scale with stamina and weapon damage and use weapon crit

If all melee skills are to be based on Stamina should all ranged weapon skills then cost magicka, scale with magicka and spell damage and use spell crit?

vladimilianoub17_ESO1 wrote: »

I agree that there should be equal amount of magika and stamina skills per class.

So should there also then be an equal amount of magicka and stamina skills per weapon?

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

There is only 5 skills per weapon line and they are locked to the weapon, while classes have 15 skills and can be used with any weapon.

I think you're mixing apples with androids here.
True, weapons skills are locked to a specific weapon... just as class skills are locked to a specific class.
True, class skills can be used with any weapon... just as weapon skills can be used with any class.
Every character has access to 3 class skill lines and 6 weapon skill lines.
Every level 15 character and above can have up 10 active abilities to choose from between class and weapon skills. They can be 10 class abilities or 10 weapon abilities or a mix of both.
Every character can mix/match more class abilities (15) but only has 3 sets of 5 to choose from.
Every character can only mix/match 10 weapon abilities but has 6 sets of 5 to choose from.
The disadvantage of weapon abilities is that they must be placed on their own bar.
The disadvantage of class abilities is that some require two slots.

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

Undaunted is also all magicka as well as Mages guild and both of those are actually useful, meanwhile fighters guild is only useful vs the abominations.

I personally find the Figher Guild abilities/passives more useful but think I will save the debate comparing their usefulness for another time. I do however feel that they seem unbalanced in terms of Magicka vs. Stamina.
Mage guild = Magicka
Fighter guild = Stamina
Undaunted = I feel these should have been a mix to maintain balance. Couple of those just seem better fitted for Stamina.

Dubah

Here is my 2 cents, any skill that deals melee damage and bow attacks should use stamina

Any skills that deals magick damage (i.e. Fire damage or frost damage) should use magicka.

That being said stamina builds get screwed because their pool of resources is also needed for blocking and dodge rolling where as magicka builds have access to both resources for whatever they need because they dont need to conserve magicka to dodge roll.

Now to fix this problem, all skills should consume magicka however the melee and arrow skills should be based off weapon damage/melee crit and magick damage should be spell damage and spell crit. Any weapon such as resto staves and fire staves should contribute to spell damage and no weapon damage. So the playing ground would be fair. That's a pretty simple way of fixing all these problems. That's the way it should be.

Stamina builds are hurting so bad to compete with dps because their stamina pool is limited to requiring the ability to dodge roll and block or even interrupt skills. Remove this problem and even the playing fields, this should be the easiest way of fixing the problems.

Stalwart385

I think the solution to stamina being dual dependent is as simple as raising the stam regen cap. It should have the ability to be higher than magika regen. The simple fact that stamina is used in multiple ways means you should be able to get it back quicker. I was very surprised when I saw that the stam regen softcap is LOWER than magicka regen. How does that make any sense?

Stam regen in general should also come at an increased rate from enchantments and skills (especially when caps are gone). Something like 10-25% more than magicka regen at equal level and quality. Just raising the soft cap would be fair enough for now.

As far as availability of stamina skills, weapon lines could easily add one more skill. Classes give you 15, weapons only give you 10. Plus weapons do not have ults available.

Dubah

Stalwart385 wrote: »

I think the solution to stamina being dual dependent is as simple as raising the stam regen cap. It should have the ability to be higher than magika regen. The simple fact that stamina is used in multiple ways means you should be able to get it back quicker. I was very surprised when I saw that the stam regen softcap is LOWER than magicka regen. How does that make any sense?

Stam regen in general should also come at an increased rate from enchantments and skills (especially when caps are gone). Something like 10-25% more than magicka regen at equal level and quality. Just raising the soft cap would be fair enough for now.

As far as availability of stamina skills, weapon lines could easily add one more skill. Classes give you 15, weapons only give you 10. Plus weapons do not have ults available.

That's still not fair. Here is the problem, as a magicka user i can easily have no doubt in my mind to blow all of my magicka in the first 10 seconds of the fight and use it as i get it til the fight is over, but stam builds can't do that. I've seen it all too often, where my stamina based player has no stamina left to dodge roll and gets eaten alive by a red because running just isn't fast enough to get out.

The problem with dodge roll is it doesn't take a small amount of stamina, i havent really looked at the math at all, but no matter how much stamina you have it takes about 30% of your stamina pool to roll, an extra 10-25% regen isn't going to fix that.

kevlarto_ESO

Maybe on today's twitch we will get some news on 1.6, I am starting to think 1.5 is our last patch of the year, please zos say it ain't so..:)

Neryaz

Quintal wrote: »

Spell crafting is a thing of a distant future. Expect it next year. They will first give us Imperial City and Champion system.

yep but befor Imp city and champion system. they will more or less put in the justice system.. tbh

Darkness033

Regarding having each class have a certain amount of stamina and magicka skills. I Feel like yes this would be great but it wouldn't make sense for a Sorcerer to need to use stamina. Being sorcerer's our skills should come from magicka. I feel like a Sorcerer and a Templar should have all magicka skills while Dragonknights and Nightblades should have all stam. Without any magicka skills in DK or NB more attribute points would be placed in Stamina rather than magicka. (For the people that put everything in health and then complain about stam/magic builds. That is your fault)

demonlkojipub19_ESO

Nightreaver wrote: »

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

I also said that lava whip and various other class skills that are practically melee should cost stamina, scale with stamina and weapon damage and use weapon crit

If all melee skills are to be based on Stamina should all ranged weapon skills then cost magicka, scale with magicka and spell damage and use spell crit?

vladimilianoub17_ESO1 wrote: »

I agree that there should be equal amount of magika and stamina skills per class.

So should there also then be an equal amount of magicka and stamina skills per weapon?

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

There is only 5 skills per weapon line and they are locked to the weapon, while classes have 15 skills and can be used with any weapon.

I think you're mixing apples with androids here.
True, weapons skills are locked to a specific weapon... just as class skills are locked to a specific class.
True, class skills can be used with any weapon... just as weapon skills can be used with any class.
Every character has access to 3 class skill lines and 6 weapon skill lines.
Every level 15 character and above can have up 10 active abilities to choose from between class and weapon skills. They can be 10 class abilities or 10 weapon abilities or a mix of both.
Every character can mix/match more class abilities (15) but only has 3 sets of 5 to choose from.
Every character can only mix/match 10 weapon abilities but has 6 sets of 5 to choose from.
The disadvantage of weapon abilities is that they must be placed on their own bar.
The disadvantage of class abilities is that some require two slots.

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

Undaunted is also all magicka as well as Mages guild and both of those are actually useful, meanwhile fighters guild is only useful vs the abominations.

I personally find the Figher Guild abilities/passives more useful but think I will save the debate comparing their usefulness for another time. I do however feel that they seem unbalanced in terms of Magicka vs. Stamina.
Mage guild = Magicka
Fighter guild = Stamina
Undaunted = I feel these should have been a mix to maintain balance. Couple of those just seem better fitted for Stamina.

It doesn't matter that class skills are locked to the class. Its 15 skills and I said 15 skills. Thats still 15 skills that can be used by that class with any weapon, while the weapon gets 5. You switch to a different class you will still have 15 skills that are all magicka that can be used with any weapon, and then 5 stamina from the weapon.

Im glad you find fighters guild skills useful. That doesn't mean they are good compared to everything else. They didn't make them for standard use, they made them for use against aboninations. Their base damages and whatever they do sucks, only when hitting a vampire/ww/daedra do you get the full effect of those skills. thats what makes undaunted and mage guild skills greater than them. Coincidently, Magicka skills greater than stamina skills, the trend of the year. Fighters guild was made wrong since launch, and doesn't serve the stamina player as mages guild serves the magicka player.

Nightreaver

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

It doesn't matter that class skills are locked to the class. Its 15 skills and I said 15 skills. Thats still 15 skills that can be used by that class with any weapon, while the weapon gets 5. You switch to a different class you will still have 15 skills that are all magicka that can be used with any weapon, and then 5 stamina from the weapon.

Well you're getting closer.
Each character has 3 class trees to choose from for a total of 15 class abilities.
Each level 15 character and above has 2 weapon trees to choose from for a total of 10 weapon abilities.
Each character can have 10 active abilities which can be 10 class abilities, 10 weapon abilities or a combination of both.
Max active class abilities = 10
Max active weapon abilities = 10
And having more does not mean better. I would much rather have 10 abilities that I find useful than 15 that aren't.

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

Im glad you find fighters guild skills useful. That doesn't mean they are good compared to everything else.

It also doesn't mean that just because you personally don't find them as useful that they aren't.
My personal feeling is that:
Fighter guild abilities should focus on Stamina builds
Mage guild should focus on Magicka builds
Undaunted should be a mixture of both.
If you are unhappy with the Fighter guild abilities then you might consider making suggestions on how to improve that selection to make them better.

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

. They didn't make them for standard use, they made them for use against aboninations. Their base damages and whatever they do sucks, only when hitting a vampire/ww/daedra do you get the full effect of those skills.

True, they are only really effective against Undead, Daedra, Vampires and Werewolves....which make up almost everything in the game.

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

. thats what makes undaunted and mage guild skills greater than them.

Well you do have me curious now as to how many Fighter, Mage and Undaunted abilities you normally keep up on your active bars. Enlighten me, which abilities do you normally have up?

killedbyping

I dont see why they would release Update 6 so soon.
Most of the players didnt even reach max rank with undaunted bcoz they wasnt backcredited for achivements.
Most of players did not yet looted Undaundet 2 items sets they wanted due to poor drop rates and randomness of armor type (light/medium/heavy) and traits.

Vast majority are not even close to acquiring new sets from Sanctum.

There are alot of things to do.

AngryNord

Which means we'll pretty certainly see 1.6 on PTS within a week :P

guybrushtb16_ESO

killedbyping wrote: »

I dont see why they would release Update 6 so soon.
Most of the players didnt even reach max rank with undaunted bcoz they wasnt backcredited for achivements.
Most of players did not yet looted Undaundet 2 items sets they wanted due to poor drop rates and randomness of armor type (light/medium/heavy) and traits.

Vast majority are not even close to acquiring new sets from Sanctum.

There are alot of things to do.

What you wrote would make sense if doing undaunted stuff and the champion system were mutually exclusive, but from what I gather the champion system is not really "something you do", but more an addition to what you do anyway.

Personally, I'm kinda put off by the whole transition phase we are going through now, and I'd really like some real clarification about how things are supposed to work out. For instance, I have one VR14 char and two 50s right now. I would like to run endgame content on the 50s, but I don't feel like putting in about 20 hours of spellscar grinding into each of them only to find out none of it transistions into champion levels in the end because all chars are just set to the equivalent of VR14 anyway. IMHO there should be *much* better communication about these things.

demonlkojipub19_ESO

Nightreaver wrote: »

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

It doesn't matter that class skills are locked to the class. Its 15 skills and I said 15 skills. Thats still 15 skills that can be used by that class with any weapon, while the weapon gets 5. You switch to a different class you will still have 15 skills that are all magicka that can be used with any weapon, and then 5 stamina from the weapon.

Well you're getting closer.
Each character has 3 class trees to choose from for a total of 15 class abilities.
Each level 15 character and above has 2 weapon trees to choose from for a total of 10 weapon abilities.
Each character can have 10 active abilities which can be 10 class abilities, 10 weapon abilities or a combination of both.
Max active class abilities = 10
Max active weapon abilities = 10
And having more does not mean better. I would much rather have 10 abilities that I find useful than 15 that aren't.

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

Im glad you find fighters guild skills useful. That doesn't mean they are good compared to everything else.

It also doesn't mean that just because you personally don't find them as useful that they aren't.
My personal feeling is that:
Fighter guild abilities should focus on Stamina builds
Mage guild should focus on Magicka builds
Undaunted should be a mixture of both.
If you are unhappy with the Fighter guild abilities then you might consider making suggestions on how to improve that selection to make them better.

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

. They didn't make them for standard use, they made them for use against aboninations. Their base damages and whatever they do sucks, only when hitting a vampire/ww/daedra do you get the full effect of those skills.

True, they are only really effective against Undead, Daedra, Vampires and Werewolves....which make up almost everything in the game.

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

. thats what makes undaunted and mage guild skills greater than them.

Well you do have me curious now as to how many Fighter, Mage and Undaunted abilities you normally keep up on your active bars. Enlighten me, which abilities do you normally have up?

How many you can have active, so what. How many you have to choose from, means a lot more. What you can do with 1 weapon type is far less than what you can do with the array of magicka skills avaliable. We already know we can pump our limited skill bars with nothing but magicka and be more well off than trying the same thing with stamina. Youd have to use more than 1 weapon type with stamina, but not with magicka. 2 weapon types still is 10 less options than magicka, 15 if you dont fancy yourself a vampire hunter.

With the changes they plan on making to every skill, it will greatly reduce the usefullness of magical attacks currently usefull to weapon/stamina builds such as lava whip. It will use spell crit and imo it would make a better stamina skill. Now its going to be completely a mage skill. Where is the stamina equivilant of it? How about teleport strike, the only gap closer that can sneak crit w/o needing to time it - gonna be a mage skill soon.

Tldr what stamina lacks is the ability to really chose what they are going to have on thier bar. 1 weapon can only get 5 and 5 only. 15 class skill gives some choice and diversity.

Nightreaver

@demonlkojipub19_ESO

Having a hard time making sense of anything that you are saying

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

How many you have to choose from, means a lot more. What you can do with 1 weapon type is far less than what you can do with the array of magicka skills avaliable.

If you want more skills to choose from then why would you choose to use only one weapon when two are available which would double your choices? That would be like using only one class skill line and complaining that there isn't enough choices.

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

You'd have to use more than 1 weapon type with stamina, but not with magicka. 2 weapon types still is 10 less options than magicka, 15 if you dont fancy yourself a vampire hunter..

1) Yes, you would have to use more than 1 weapon skill tree to have access to more than 5 abilities just as you would have to use more than one class skill tree to have access to more than 5 abilities.
2) Let me repeat again, hopefully for the last time. Each weapon skill lines gets 5 abilities, each class skill line gets 5 abilities, they are EXACTLY the same. Every character has access to two weapon skill lines and 3 class skill lines. 15 vs 10 for a difference of five, not 10.
3) Vampires have 2 magicka skills. Werewolves have 4 Stamina skills.
Fighter guild has 4 Stamina skills while Mage guild only has 3 Magicka skills.
And more choices mean they're better right?

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

With the changes they plan on making to every skill, it will greatly reduce the usefullness of magical attacks currently usefull to weapon/stamina builds such as lava whip. It will use spell crit and imo it would make a better stamina skill. Now its going to be completely a mage skill. Where is the stamina equivilant of it? How about teleport strike, the only gap closer that can sneak crit w/o needing to time it - gonna be a mage skill soon.

I would have no problem at all if they made all DK and NB class skills based on Stamina instead of Magicka. Templars and Sorcerers can already go full Magicka with class and weapons skills, I see no reason why DKs and NBs shouldn't be able to go full Stamina with class and weapon skills.

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

Tldr what stamina lacks is the ability to really chose what they are going to have on thier bar. 1 weapon can only get 5 and 5 only. 15 class skill gives some choice and diversity.

You want choice?
Each Weapon skill tree gets 5 and 5 only. There are 6 weapon skill trees for a total 30 abilities available to each character.
Each Class skill tree gets 5 and 5 only. There are 3 class trees for a total of 15 abilities available to each character.
So every character has twice as many weapon ability choices as class ability choices.
If we gave every weapon 15 abilities then that would result in 90 weapon ability choices vs. 15 for class abilities. I can see maybe expanding weapon skills to 7 or 8 so each character would have about the same number of weapon and class abilities. But 15 abilities per weapon just seems like overkill and a leveling nightmare.

demonlkojipub19_ESO

Well if you dont get it, then thats that. It doesnt even work like that. Weapon skills are locked to the weapon, forcing you to change your weapon. Class skills dont. They need to have a wider variety of stamina based skills that use weapon damage and weapon crit despite your failure to comprehend the reason why.

Mettaricana

Cody wrote: »

I want some of the class abilties to cost stamina. it would provide some balance to this balanceless game(wordsmithing!:D)

Imperial city will be a nice addiiton to Cyrodill.... hopefully it wont be dominated by lagblobs.

i really want this but at same time alot of the skills no matter how we look at them would require magika to do. i dont see me growing magma spikes or generating whips of lava from sheer stamina and will power. or conjuring a spear of light and impaling an enemy from 30 feet away with a finisher or anything. lol but i do hope for more weapon and stamina skills

Nightreaver

@demonlkojipub19_ESO
Well obviously one of us doesn't get and I was actually quite content to agree to disagree as to who that person was. But you couldn't let it drop, you had to come back and edit your response.

So no, it doesn't work the way you say it does and repeating the same thing over and over doesn't make it so.

But YES, I acknowledge that weapon skills are locked to the weapon and have said so. While you keep sidestepping the fact that class skills are also locked to the class. The difference is that you can switch weapons, you can't switch classes.

Not sure what your point is regarding weapon skills being locked to a weapon. Would it make any sense to have Shield Bash while using a Bow or the ability to repeatedly fire arrows while wielding a Two Hand weapon?

I also said I can see expanding the number of weapon abilities to 7 or 8 to balance the number of Stamina based abilities available to number of Magicka based abilities available. But 15 per weapon? No, that would just shift the balance way in favor of Stamina. But then I guess you're not really looking for balance, just a way to make Stamina builds superior.

Nightreaver

Mettaricana wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

I want some of the class abilties to cost stamina. it would provide some balance to this balanceless game(wordsmithing!:D)

Imperial city will be a nice addiiton to Cyrodill.... hopefully it wont be dominated by lagblobs.

i really want this but at same time alot of the skills no matter how we look at them would require magika to do. i dont see me growing magma spikes or generating whips of lava from sheer stamina and will power. or conjuring a spear of light and impaling an enemy from 30 feet away with a finisher or anything. lol but i do hope for more weapon and stamina skills

I'm sure you can always come up with explanation to justify a class ability using Stamina instead of Magicka. I think the difficulty is going to be in people agreeing which and how many abilities should become Stamina based and which ones should remain Magicka based. And then trying to further balance by making every role within a single class equally viable in either a Stamina or Magicka based build.

LonePirate

I am guessing Thursday's PTS maintenance is just to bring it up to date with 1.5.6 which is on the live server but not on the PTS.

Please prove me wrong, ZOS, by upgrading it in full to 1.6!

Dominoid

LonePirate wrote: »

I am guessing Thursday's PTS maintenance is just to bring it up to date with 1.5.6 which is on the live server but not on the PTS.

Please prove me wrong, ZOS, by upgrading it in full to 1.6!

It's gotta be 1.6

MrGhosty

They said it's just back end maintenance, but it seems like they do that just before they drop a new build so maybe next week? Gina said there would be news on 1.6 soon though.

Kalman

Hmm looks like my Initial prediction of Dec 31st for 1.6 to hit PTS was pretty close:
THE ROAD AHEAD - DECEMBER 4