Bows in Cyrodiil->Overkill?

Goldie

Not sure if anyone else has been experiencing this, but, I receive hits from bow users for upwards of 2000 damage per hit. While my health does sit somewhere between 3.5k and 4k at any given time, getting killed in 2 shots from another player that is on a keep wall seems a tad OP to me.

Your thoughts?

Cody

i think its just a complaint from people that are not used to being killed in PvP.

however, i will not complain if the damage is toned down.

i have also noticed that snipe cannot be interrupted. iv bashed people as soon as they started doing it, before the 1.1 second cast time went, and it did not stun them. if that is the case, that too needs to be fixed.

Gorthax

im sorry but bows have THE BEST range in this game, there is NO reason they need to have that much damage. Not one logical excuse. You want to sit up on a keep wall and pew pew people fine, but you shouldnt be able to do stuff like that.

eventide03b14a_ESO

Gorthax wrote: »

im sorry but bows have THE BEST range in this game, there is NO reason they need to have that much damage. Not one logical excuse. You want to sit up on a keep wall and pew pew people fine, but you shouldnt be able to do stuff like that.

Unless reflective scales is also nerfed to not work against bows then no. Leave them alone. L2P

MrGhosty

Cody wrote: »

i think its just a complaint from people that are not used to being killed in PvP.

however, i will not complain if the damage is toned down.

i have also noticed that snipe cannot be interrupted. iv bashed people as soon as they started doing it, before the 1.1 second cast time went, and it did not stun them. if that is the case, that too needs to be fixed.

You might be experiencing that due to Lag, I have used bow since I created my NB months ago and if you get hit while casting snipe it does cause the attack to fail. As for the damage amount I cannot say as I rarely see those numbers personally, but my build just not be properly kitted out for that particular damage model. @Goldie what is your character build, are you vamp? WW? 2k damage might be happening to you based on what build you have so it would be interesting and useful for the conversation to know.

Goldie

MrGhosty wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

i think its just a complaint from people that are not used to being killed in PvP.

however, i will not complain if the damage is toned down.

i have also noticed that snipe cannot be interrupted. iv bashed people as soon as they started doing it, before the 1.1 second cast time went, and it did not stun them. if that is the case, that too needs to be fixed.

You might be experiencing that due to Lag, I have used bow since I created my NB months ago and if you get hit while casting snipe it does cause the attack to fail. As for the damage amount I cannot say as I rarely see those numbers personally, but my build just not be properly kitted out for that particular damage model. @Goldie what is your character build, are you vamp? WW? 2k damage might be happening to you based on what build you have so it would be interesting and useful for the conversation to know.

@MrGhosty am a Templar/Vamp -> But I am very hard to take down even by fire abilities. I am usually the last one standing in a group unless I am totally overwhelmed by enemies. The bow abilities seem to be the only ones to hit for that much damage, and the range is impossible to deal with.

kijima

I'm a NB, use a bow, hit hard as a freight train with my bow, but don't get one of two shoted by someone else using snipe on me, it's probably because just as I've made my toon hit hard, I understand how to counter it. I have plenty of impen on my gear for a start.

Just like you'd roll dodge out of standard of might (you'd get hit with 2K upwards if you didn't move) you should roll dodge when you hear the sound of a snipe. Same goes for roll dodging out of bats etc. Don't just stand there, move, always move.

Things you can do to help being torn apart by bow:

1. Wear impen armour, 3 pieces is okay, 5 pieces much better
2. Wear some heavy (understand if you don't want to do this though)
3. Wear Poison resist glyphs
4. Roll Dodge when you hear the sound
5. If DK use reflective scales
6. If Sorc/Temp stack those sheilds
7. Get up close to the archer and tear them a new one

Snipe when hitting a target that is detected yet still in sneak will stun. If you get stunned, be prepared for another snipe to tear you down. If you are detected, and you have bow users on you, don't stay in sneak, they will just stun you and make you go boom. Stay mobile, roll dodge, use invis pots. Block, stack those shields and watch the bow user run out of stamina after spamming snipe. Then go to town on them once you've closed the gap.

Cody

MrGhosty wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

i think its just a complaint from people that are not used to being killed in PvP.

however, i will not complain if the damage is toned down.

i have also noticed that snipe cannot be interrupted. iv bashed people as soon as they started doing it, before the 1.1 second cast time went, and it did not stun them. if that is the case, that too needs to be fixed.

You might be experiencing that due to Lag, I have used bow since I created my NB months ago and if you get hit while casting snipe it does cause the attack to fail. As for the damage amount I cannot say as I rarely see those numbers personally, but my build just not be properly kitted out for that particular damage model. @Goldie what is your character build, are you vamp? WW? 2k damage might be happening to you based on what build you have so it would be interesting and useful for the conversation to know.

I hope thats the case. iv seen archers spam snipe at point blank range and my bashes doing nothing. spamming snipe at that close of a range is a bad habit that people should pay for.

and to the guy talking about how only Bow builds kill him/her..... maybe that is your weakness? we all have them. I, for example cant take on people with a shield worth a crap. they outlast me(esspecially the DKs that spam talons) maybe you just need to realize you have limits and work to deal with them?

MrGhosty

@Goldie when you look at the kill screen are you seeing the hunter ability from the fighter's guild line? I've been rocked by that a time or two. Have you tried popping the vamp mist after you break the first stun? I'm also not aiming to discredit your claim, I just unfortunately haven't seen any of these damage numbers. I've lately been running mostly light armor as the set I wanted was that but I do have a couple pieces of impenetrable heavy armor.

Nacario

So you who got supposedly 2 shotted, what was your VR, armor, build? The first hit from stealth will always hit hard with any weapon. The fact that you got killed in range of keep wall indicates that you should keep further away from the wall. It adds another element to the battle in stead of just /loling outside the walls being safe.

TheBucket

kijima wrote: »

I'm a NB, use a bow, hit hard as a freight train with my bow, but don't get one of two shoted by someone else using snipe on me, it's probably because just as I've made my toon hit hard, I understand how to counter it. I have plenty of impen on my gear for a start.

Just like you'd roll dodge out of standard of might (you'd get hit with 2K upwards if you didn't move) you should roll dodge when you hear the sound of a snipe. Same goes for roll dodging out of bats etc. Don't just stand there, move, always move.

Things you can do to help being torn apart by bow:

1. Wear impen armour, 3 pieces is okay, 5 pieces much better
2. Wear some heavy (understand if you don't want to do this though)
3. Wear Poison resist glyphs
4. Roll Dodge when you hear the sound
5. If DK use reflective scales
6. If Sorc/Temp stack those sheilds
7. Get up close to the archer and tear them a new one

Snipe when hitting a target that is detected yet still in sneak will stun. If you get stunned, be prepared for another snipe to tear you down. If you are detected, and you have bow users on you, don't stay in sneak, they will just stun you and make you go boom. Stay mobile, roll dodge, use invis pots. Block, stack those shields and watch the bow user run out of stamina after spamming snipe. Then go to town on them once you've closed the gap.

I wear 7 pieces at the moment and just realized it was overkill.

Thechemicals

Bows kill impulse rage monkeys so no, its not overkill. Just a counter to another kind of overkill....and that makes it fair.

Islyn

Goldie wrote: »

Not sure if anyone else has been experiencing this, but, I receive hits from bow users for upwards of 2000 damage per hit. While my health does sit somewhere between 3.5k and 4k at any given time, getting killed in 2 shots from another player that is on a keep wall seems a tad OP to me.

Your thoughts?

Duck?

Cogo

Have you tried moving or block when you get the "MARKED" on you?

Goldie

Cogo wrote: »

Have you tried moving or block when you get the "MARKED" on you?

@Cogo yes, and I pop blazing shield as soon as I am marked. Its devastating to say the least.

Pyatra

Islyn wrote: »

Goldie wrote: »

Not sure if anyone else has been experiencing this, but, I receive hits from bow users for upwards of 2000 damage per hit. While my health does sit somewhere between 3.5k and 4k at any given time, getting killed in 2 shots from another player that is on a keep wall seems a tad OP to me.

Your thoughts?

Duck?

My problem is the roving bands that aren't even hiding but just spamming them, we fought a zerg the other day of 30+ people, no staffs, all ranged. One would call it Bowapalooza to say the least, this is fairly common now, most were DKs and Templars. I think ducking won't work... I am developing a mean cartwheeling technique that involves me holding ribbons on sticks, it helps distract the enemy.

Palidon

Bows are not an overkill in Cyrodiil. Heck if the player has Impren Armor or is using Reflective Scales Bow attacks are useless. I know for a fact since I use a Bow.

JamilaRaj

Palidon wrote: »

Bows are not an overkill in Cyrodiil. Heck if the player has Impren Armor or is using Reflective Scales Bow attacks are useless. I know for a fact since I use a Bow.

Not everyone in Cyrodiil is DK. Yet.

kijima

Cogo wrote: »

Have you tried moving or block when you get the "MARKED" on you?

Have you ever tried running purge once you are marked.

I'm suprized at the amount of people that don't run purge, they are the ones that stay marked. Makes it easy to chase then down, and without armour they get torn down fast.

JamilaRaj wrote: »

Palidon wrote: »

Bows are not an overkill in Cyrodiil. Heck if the player has Impren Armor or is using Reflective Scales Bow attacks are useless. I know for a fact since I use a Bow.

Not everyone in Cyrodiil is DK. Yet.

True, so if you are not a DK then you can stack shields, wear impen, dodge roll, block, get up close and nasty and pummel the bow user into the ground.

Glass cannons (like me) are pretty weak when you get up close to them, I have to use an exit plan as a strategy, not go toe to toe. Most NB's that use a bow with big weapon damage will do the same. It's either bug out, hide and stay alive to fight another day or go boom, weapon swaps recently being awful have hurt glass cannons a lot too.

Having said that, because the bow is good DPS you can from time to time, go toe to toe with a sorc when you are both trying to range each other to death, then it's just down to skill and situational awareness that will see you out as the victor.

The only thing that is OP with bow right now is the debuff on heals when you let off two snipes on the one target. The target then has zero heals which is rougher than hessian undies, it is funny though watching the arms wave around while they are trying to heal themselves and nothing is happening.

A panicking healer is a dead healer.

eliisra

kijima wrote: »

True, so if you are not a DK then you can stack shields, wear impen, dodge roll, block, get up close and nasty and pummel the bow user into the ground.

You can't shield-stack v.s. bows.
Absorb (Defensive Posture morph) and Harness magicka only mitigates spell projectiles.
Healing Ward is a smart heal and anyone custom with the design knows why it only works 1v1.
You cant cast Bone Shield on yourself.
Barrier is an Ultimate.

Than there's Nightblades, they don't even have a class shield.

But a bow user is not a problem. I agree. It's still a weak build 1v1 (sadly), since most protective skills scales of magicka. The issue is the current dynamic of PvP .

Since there so many counters versus spell projectiles (and everyone is terrified of dying and yet want easy kills), you now have an entire row of Snipe spammers, at safe max range, blowing up anyone stupid enough to go mele without Reflective Scales. I definitely feel mele (non DK) builds, needs better protection against the current archer army.

kijima

I'm an NB and don't get torn apart with bows, I use invis pots, dark cloak (which is our version of class shield I guess.... Thanks ZOS) , plus immoveable when I can.

What I've found has helped the most is plenty of impen, wear two heavy as this seems to have helped a great deal, more than I thought it would, just the normal five medium. I don't get 2 shot from snipe, not even close.

Cody

JamilaRaj wrote: »

Palidon wrote: »

Bows are not an overkill in Cyrodiil. Heck if the player has Impren Armor or is using Reflective Scales Bow attacks are useless. I know for a fact since I use a Bow.

Not everyone in Cyrodiil is DK. Yet.

not everyone, but 95% love to block and spam talons with a shield:D

Stannum

First they whine that they were oneshoted by bow from stealth. All stealth attacks were nerfed.
Now they whine that they are being killed with bow anyway.
I have been never killed by >70% dmg bow attack. What i'm doing wrong? Cause when I'm attacked by snipe I roll and then evade. And there is no any need in dragon scale.
Class cannons has low HP and light armor, why shouldn't they survive focused non-magika attack?

Cody

dancing.in.the.webeb17_ESO wrote: »

First they whine that they were oneshoted by bow from stealth. All stealth attacks were nerfed.
Now they whine that they are being killed with bow anyway.
I have been never killed by >70% dmg bow attack. What i'm doing wrong? Cause when I'm attacked by snipe I roll and then evade. And there is no any need in dragon scale.
Class cannons has low HP and light armor, why shouldn't they survive focused non-magika attack?

only time i was ever hit for over 2K was before stealth nerf.
i have yet to be stealth lethal arrowed for this supposed 2K and i wear no impenetrable pieces.

so idk where people get these numbers from these days. maybe its mark target.

Kromus

Gorthax wrote: »

im sorry but bows have THE BEST range in this game, there is NO reason they need to have that much damage. Not one logical excuse. You want to sit up on a keep wall and pew pew people fine, but you shouldnt be able to do stuff like that.

Agree. Bow damage should fallout depending on distance from the target. Longer the distance from target, less damage arrows do. Giving an option of dealing ~3k damage to a player in 2 seconds, miles away from the target, in a game where you should look for visual/audio clues in the world to determine combat elements (not UI), with average player health pool in cyro ~3k, no global cooldown but forced animations instead (often glitched), with audio/video lags... is crazy.

"Elitist" may preach their wisdom how one should l2p, get better gear, more hp, travel hidden, in groups or whatever, but point is majority of players are not elitist and just there to have fun. They can be good or bad players but all have two things in common... they are majority of subscribers and they are getting increased number of instant deaths with recent patches and changes to bows. If majority of players can't have fun in the game because they are instantly killed and furthermore need three days of riding back, they will quite the game or look for safety in zergs. Zergs are not fun and we will sure have no fun if most players leave the game.

Chrlynsch

Kromus wrote: »

Gorthax wrote: »

im sorry but bows have THE BEST range in this game, there is NO reason they need to have that much damage. Not one logical excuse. You want to sit up on a keep wall and pew pew people fine, but you shouldnt be able to do stuff like that.

Agree. Bow damage should fallout depending on distance from the target. Longer the distance from target, less damage arrows do. Giving an option of dealing ~3k damage to a player in 2 seconds, miles away from the target, in a game where you should look for visual/audio clues in the world to determine combat elements (not UI), with average player health pool in cyro ~3k, no global cooldown but forced animations instead (often glitched), with audio/video lags... is crazy.

"Elitist" may preach their wisdom how one should l2p, get better gear, more hp, travel hidden, in groups or whatever, but point is majority of players are not elitist and just there to have fun. They can be good or bad players but all have two things in common... they are majority of subscribers and they are getting increased number of instant deaths with recent patches and changes to bows. If majority of players can't have fun in the game because they are instantly killed and furthermore need three days of riding back, they will quite the game or look for safety in zergs. Zergs are not fun and we will sure have no fun if most players leave the game.

Totally agree! Upon entering Cyrodiil our weapons should be replaced with foam noodles and pillows. @Goldie‌ I am a Vampire Templar... I PVP all the time, and don't have a single, problem against bows. If you EP hit me up and I will run you through my build. If you are AD or DC I have some nightblade friends that will continue to help you learn the hard way.

ZOS is working on a zerg buster skill.

martinhpb16_ESO

Goldie wrote: »

Not sure if anyone else has been experiencing this, but, I receive hits from bow users for upwards of 2000 damage per hit. While my health does sit somewhere between 3.5k and 4k at any given time, getting killed in 2 shots from another player that is on a keep wall seems a tad OP to me.

Your thoughts?

Are you looking at a damage meter to confirm that 2k? what single skill is delivering this?

It is still possible to land a few hits in close succession, which may make it feel like 2k.

Cant say that I have recently landed a 2k hit on a well equipped foe in pvp. Not saying its not true but what is your level and build?

As a bow user I regularly get blown up by sorc, dk and templars.

It feels like I'm getting one shotted but when I check the damage meter its is actually a few skills that damaged me.

martinhpb16_ESO

kijima wrote: »

Glass cannons (like me) are pretty weak when you get up close to them, I have to use an exit plan as a strategy, not go toe to toe. Most NB's that use a bow with big weapon damage will do the same. It's either bug out, hide and stay alive to fight another day or go boom, weapon swaps recently being awful have hurt glass cannons a lot too.

Having said that, because the bow is good DPS you can from time to time, go toe to toe with a sorc when you are both trying to range each other to death, then it's just down to skill and situational awareness that will see you out as the victor.

My experience exactly

murtugo

Bow is one way to counter impulse monkeys and zerg trains.. And now you want to nerf it? Jesssh! make up your mind people.

Saet

Before the nerf I was sniping for about 2200 average. Now My average snipe is around 1400. I have heavily overcharged weapon damage and soft capped stamina. I have hit once for 1700 since nerf so I'm not sure how someone is getting over 2k now unless you were ambushed first or something like that.

JamilaRaj

kijima wrote: »

JamilaRaj wrote: »

Palidon wrote: »

Bows are not an overkill in Cyrodiil. Heck if the player has Impren Armor or is using Reflective Scales Bow attacks are useless. I know for a fact since I use a Bow.

Not everyone in Cyrodiil is DK. Yet.

True, so if you are not a DK then you can stack shields, wear impen, dodge roll, block, get up close and nasty and pummel the bow user into the ground.

Glass cannons (like me) are pretty weak when you get up close to them, I have to use an exit plan as a strategy, not go toe to toe. Most NB's that use a bow with big weapon damage will do the same. It's either bug out, hide and stay alive to fight another day or go boom, weapon swaps recently being awful have hurt glass cannons a lot too.

Let's differentiate two things. One is, say, snipe from stealth, which is OP concerned about. I find it annoying, but only a minor issue or mildly overpowered, chiefly because of discrepancy between sniper's possible outcomes (falling typically somewhere between mark is dead - mark gets away) and mark's possible outcomes (falling typically somewhere between sniped to death - sniper gets away) and also discrepancy between this and melee ninja, who plays it with cards on table, betting his life. In other words it could be said that while sniper is glass canon, downsides are more then made up for by range and damage being squeezed into basically time frame on one snipe's cast time.

The other thing is snipe spam. I do not think the issue is just stacking healing debuff, though it is a major component, but rather combination of it and range and damage, which makes sniping overpowered, and the result is sniping meta we currently see in Cyrodiil, where you either scales or bow, preferably both.

kijima wrote: »

I'm an NB and don't get torn apart with bows, I use invis pots, dark cloak (which is our version of class shield I guess.... Thanks ZOS) , plus immoveable when I can.

Yes, but you sound like sniper yourself, i.e. aside from being protected by range (and substantially so) at which you engage enemies you benefit from shot-hide tactics. Close range fighter benefit from neither, so I would say melee NB is dead meat, unless it is something along the lines cloak-cloak-impale some almost dead noob-cloak-cloak-away, but still cloak is not the most reliable skill around.
Anyway, dead meat is pretty much everyone going melee unless he has scales. Not that there is anything sensible to charge to begin with, because enemy's front lines likewise consist chiefly of DKs and charge all the way through to from where archers snipe is probably too much even with scales.