Block Casting and the open use of block casting is so wrong :(

NotSo

I like to play everything in good sport and what I mean is everyone understands the intended mechanics and anything that tends to have a hidden function, that can be taken advantage of or is simply overpowered, is primarily avoided.

Block casting is something that most every active member on the forums and in Cyrodiil knows about but most players new to ESO or to Cyrodiil have no idea what it is; and thus, they are unfortunately way behind the curve in terms of fighting prowess, They are, effectively, taking twice the amount of damage thrown at them as anyone else.

Blocking vs Casting should be more of a risk/reward. Either casting to do damage or blocking to mitigate sustained damage. Blocking before finishing a cast animation (up to the spawn of the projectile or distant spell effect) should cast cancel even if that means ruining any "instant" casts which cant be instant because they all have a delay between key press and action anyways, such as the Sorc's Lightning Flood takes about 0.2 seconds to wave your arms summoning lighting.

Zeni has stated that the combat mechanics are working as intended but I submit that they, in fact, are not.

P.S. ignore any mis-congruence of the first comment as the OP has been edited

guybrushtb16_ESO

Block casting has been in the game since launch, and it's barely related to any work on combat responsiveness anyway. Honestly, what you're writing there doesn't make sense at all.

NotSo

And now that I have edited my post, I will stamp it with this bump*

eventide03b14a_ESO

If they took out block casting people would see the value in heavy armor and it would also reduce the stick wielding dress wearing zerg trains.

Surfinginhawaii

I like block casting and do it often .

Cathexis

Id like to see blocking cancel casting personally, since at the moment you can only so that with certain skill combinations or a keybind ui addon. The way it stands it currently only benefits heavy armor or resto builds in a meaningful way.

eventide03b14a_ESO

I do it all the time too but I think it's reduced this game to a faceroll.

Kraven

Casting while blocking has been a function since early beta, it has been discussed over and over. It has even been addressed by ZOS, while at work I don't have the time to find it but it was stated quite clearly that they know it is happening and absolutely 100% supported.

Unfortunately this has and will continue to be an issue with the balance between magicka and stamina builds. Melee weapons don't have the option while stave users can cast all their magicka abilities while block is being held. It was stated that due to the nature of the active combat and the requirement of that combat for the player to be able to block or dodge at a moments notice that they didn't want to punish spell users by locking them into an animation. However try the same with Snipe,Rapid strikes or Uppercut any melee ability with a cast time.

Block casting is a fact of life for ESO, stick and dress reign supreme.

NotSo

I am aware that this has been a part of the game for a long time but reminding me isnt so convincing that I'd just learn to deal with it ; I've been dealing with it this whole time but I've lost my patience and I think it really needs to change.

Block casting may very well be intentional by design but I will not recognise it as such unless it is be presented in the Cold Harbor tutorial for new players. It is literally ruining good combat gameplay and makes challenging boss fights half the challenge it is designed to be; which would mean it isn't actually intended.

Surfinginhawaii

I'm so dumb that I just started doing this, I thought it was one or the other, makes a huge difference in survivability.

Soulac

I never block without a reason, that's why I'm able to break any Stun. I just block things like charge and shards, everything else could be dodged by cloak.
I don't like this block casting at all and don't see the point in using it to lose more Stamina.
(Well it seems nice for 24/7 blocking dks, but I got a little nice skill called fear.)

eventide03b14a_ESO

Since they refuse to make blocking in this game actually make sense what if they at least penalized your damage while doing it. Then there would be less incentive to keep it up all the time. I mean severely penalize too. Like 50% less damage.

Pyatra

Kraven wrote: »

Casting while blocking has been a function since early beta, it has been discussed over and over. It has even been addressed by ZOS, while at work I don't have the time to find it but it was stated quite clearly that they know it is happening and absolutely 100% supported.

Unfortunately this has and will continue to be an issue with the balance between magicka and stamina builds. Melee weapons don't have the option while stave users can cast all their magicka abilities while block is being held. It was stated that due to the nature of the active combat and the requirement of that combat for the player to be able to block or dodge at a moments notice that they didn't want to punish spell users by locking them into an animation. However try the same with Snipe,Rapid strikes or Uppercut any melee ability with a cast time.

Block casting is a fact of life for ESO, stick and dress reign supreme.

You can block cast certain class abilities while blocking with sword and board. Not all class abilities can but once you test them and figure out which ones do, you can be a rolling death machine (some classes more so than others).

guybrushtb16_ESO

Pyatra wrote: »

Kraven wrote: »

Casting while blocking has been a function since early beta, it has been discussed over and over. It has even been addressed by ZOS, while at work I don't have the time to find it but it was stated quite clearly that they know it is happening and absolutely 100% supported.

Unfortunately this has and will continue to be an issue with the balance between magicka and stamina builds. Melee weapons don't have the option while stave users can cast all their magicka abilities while block is being held. It was stated that due to the nature of the active combat and the requirement of that combat for the player to be able to block or dodge at a moments notice that they didn't want to punish spell users by locking them into an animation. However try the same with Snipe,Rapid strikes or Uppercut any melee ability with a cast time.

Block casting is a fact of life for ESO, stick and dress reign supreme.

You can block cast certain class abilities while blocking with sword and board. Not all class abilities can but once you test them and figure out which ones do, you can be a rolling death machine (some classes more so than others).

Block casting is neither restricted to sword and board nor class abilities. Everything that is instant can be cast while holding block. Even though it looks as if you stopped blocking, as long as the little block icon is up you are still considererd fully blocking.

The issue is that the main damage dealing abilites of all the stamina weapons just happen to have a cast time, which is extremely awkward and IMO very questionable design. I really can't begin to understand what they were thinking when they decided that the ranged casters should have instants while the melee users get channeled skills by default.

Sharee

Kraven wrote: »

Casting while blocking has been a function since early beta, it has been discussed over and over. It has even been addressed by ZOS, while at work I don't have the time to find it but it was stated quite clearly that they know it is happening and absolutely 100% supported.

I would not be so sure.

I believe it was at quakecon when perma-blocking was discussed, and i certainly did not get the impression that they are happy with how it works. They said, loose quote, "blocking is one of the most powerful moves you can do in a fight and we want it to be a meaningful decision".

Right now, it is not a meaningful decision. It is no decision at all - you simply hold the right mouse button at all times because it would be dumb not to.

I am fully expecting a change to how block functions. Not tomorrow, but it's coming, mark my words

Pyatra

guybrushtb16_ESO wrote: »

Pyatra wrote: »

Kraven wrote: »

Casting while blocking has been a function since early beta, it has been discussed over and over. It has even been addressed by ZOS, while at work I don't have the time to find it but it was stated quite clearly that they know it is happening and absolutely 100% supported.

Unfortunately this has and will continue to be an issue with the balance between magicka and stamina builds. Melee weapons don't have the option while stave users can cast all their magicka abilities while block is being held. It was stated that due to the nature of the active combat and the requirement of that combat for the player to be able to block or dodge at a moments notice that they didn't want to punish spell users by locking them into an animation. However try the same with Snipe,Rapid strikes or Uppercut any melee ability with a cast time.

Block casting is a fact of life for ESO, stick and dress reign supreme.

You can block cast certain class abilities while blocking with sword and board. Not all class abilities can but once you test them and figure out which ones do, you can be a rolling death machine (some classes more so than others).

Block casting is neither restricted to sword and board nor class abilities. Everything that is instant can be cast while holding block. Even though it looks as if you stopped blocking, as long as the little block icon is up you are still considererd fully blocking.

The issue is that the main damage dealing abilites of all the stamina weapons just happen to have a cast time, which is extremely awkward and IMO very questionable design. I really can't begin to understand what they were thinking when they decided that the ranged casters should have instants while the melee users get channeled skills by default.

Did I say it was ONLY S&B? No. Also you can block during some non-instant abilities... I know I can. L2P not jump to conclusions.

Cody

I too despise Block and Casting. I think its a lame mechanic. The fact you can have the best of both attacking AND defending at the same time, is ridiculous. One should have to make a strategic choice between the two, not be able to do both at the same time.

jeanette

A block is a block, an attack is an attack. It should be like that in game aswell. In the end, it's all about who has the most stamina, and not truly about skill. It should be like a dance, block-attack-block-block-attack, and so on.

Blocking with a shield should also absorb more damage than blocking with any other weapon. In that way it makes more sense to have range attacks and stay out of close combat, or being tanky with a shield.

Also, get rid of 360 block. It doesn't make sense. If you want to guard your back, use immovable or similar skills. I want my sneaky and very agile nightblade to be able to run around another player and stab him in the back!

Xsorus

The only way to remove block casting would be to nerf everyones damage via massively improving mitigation from armor.

Nubs who don't understand that unless you're doing the whole shield stacking thing right now, You're pretty much forced into blocking if you want to live more then 3 seconds in PvP.

The second they "nerf" block casting, you force everyone into shield stacking,and since most of the people whine about block casting don't even understand that, they'll be crying they're dying to fast in PvP now.

Cody

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

The only way to remove block casting would be to nerf everyones damage via massively improving mitigation from armor.

Nubs who don't understand that unless you're doing the whole shield stacking thing right now, You're pretty much forced into blocking if you want to live more then 3 seconds in PvP.

The second they "nerf" block casting, you force everyone into shield stacking,and since most of the people whine about block casting don't even understand that, they'll be crying they're dying to fast in PvP now.

then armor mitigation needs more of an impact:/

Pmarsico9

I can't make sense of the OP at all.

Here's the thing though:

In PVP Block casting is beyond broken.

In PVE, if they removed Block casting, they would have to let tanks actually tank. Because as it is now, with trash packs that tend towards the massive in Veteran Dungeons, any DPSer that doesn't block cast is likely going to die.

Think of the initial pull in VR12 Spindleclutch on Praxin.........There's seemingly 20 spiders and they can't all be tanked. So if you can't block cast, wtf are you supposed to do? Have every player use a taunt and try to avoid dying while they never die?

Gorthax

Soulac wrote: »

I never block without a reason, that's why I'm able to break any Stun. I just block things like charge and shards, everything else could be dodged by cloak.
I don't like this block casting at all and don't see the point in using it to lose more Stamina.
(Well it seems nice for 24/7 blocking dks, but I got a little nice skill called fear.)

to bad if you are blocking before fear, and continue to block, you will block WHILE feared. sorry bout your bad luck

Gorthax

Pmarsico9 wrote: »

I can't make sense of the OP at all.

Here's the thing though:

In PVP Block casting is beyond broken.

In PVE, if they removed Block casting, they would have to let tanks actually tank. Because as it is now, with trash packs that tend towards the massive in Veteran Dungeons, any DPSer that doesn't block cast is likely going to die.

Think of the initial pull in VR12 Spindleclutch on Praxin.........There's seemingly 20 spiders and they can't all be tanked. So if you can't block cast, wtf are you supposed to do? Have every player use a taunt and try to avoid dying while they never die?

Its called situation awareness. If you KNOW there are going to be a crap ton of mobs coming at you, you better make use of CC abilities huh. CC --> dps --> cc --> dps. No one moves no one gets hurt. So defend the broken block casting now.

Xsorus

Gorthax wrote: »

Pmarsico9 wrote: »

I can't make sense of the OP at all.

Here's the thing though:

In PVP Block casting is beyond broken.

In PVE, if they removed Block casting, they would have to let tanks actually tank. Because as it is now, with trash packs that tend towards the massive in Veteran Dungeons, any DPSer that doesn't block cast is likely going to die.

Think of the initial pull in VR12 Spindleclutch on Praxin.........There's seemingly 20 spiders and they can't all be tanked. So if you can't block cast, wtf are you supposed to do? Have every player use a taunt and try to avoid dying while they never die?

Its called situation awareness. If you KNOW there are going to be a crap ton of mobs coming at you, you better make use of CC abilities huh. CC --> dps --> cc --> dps. No one moves no one gets hurt. So defend the broken block casting now.

There is no situational awareness to PvE blocking in this game..You're either blocking or dead if you're tanking in a dungeon..No amount of CC is going to save you from some of the pulls you have in this game.

Pmarsico9

Gorthax wrote: »

Pmarsico9 wrote: »

I can't make sense of the OP at all.

Here's the thing though:

In PVP Block casting is beyond broken.

In PVE, if they removed Block casting, they would have to let tanks actually tank. Because as it is now, with trash packs that tend towards the massive in Veteran Dungeons, any DPSer that doesn't block cast is likely going to die.

Think of the initial pull in VR12 Spindleclutch on Praxin.........There's seemingly 20 spiders and they can't all be tanked. So if you can't block cast, wtf are you supposed to do? Have every player use a taunt and try to avoid dying while they never die?

Its called situation awareness. If you KNOW there are going to be a crap ton of mobs coming at you, you better make use of CC abilities huh. CC --> dps --> cc --> dps. No one moves no one gets hurt. So defend the broken block casting now.

Oh yeah? So everybody should be a DK or Sorc or GTFO? Things go immune to CC, friend-o.

NotSo

@Pmarsico9 If removing block casting does in fact ruin anyone's chances at completing trials or dragon star arena, I have no doubt that ZOS would address that as well. There's no reason why block casting should stick around.

Kraven

The problem that ZOS stated was in latency and the requirement of combat to block. As soon as people start to miss required blocks because it didn't cancel the attack animation fast enough there will be even more complaints about combat being broken. I wish animation cancelling wasn't a thing at all, but it is and I really don't see that changing anytime soon.

NotSo

Animation cancelling is just a byproduct of ZOS's take on fast combat controls. The issue is even though the animation will cancel, the cast will not.
I actually welcome animation cancelling because it adds a bit more realism to the idea that while I'm summoning a matriarch, I might decide that my shield has a better chance at saving me from a sniper attack than finishing my summon.

NordJitsu

If they changed block to 180 rather than 360 this would be less of an issue.

NotSo

But why make it less of an issue when it could be fixed entirely (rhetorical)

NordJitsu

@ian92415b14_ESO‌

Because as mentioned making block-casting impossible has other issues associated with it. Server lag would become an issue for blocking (although I guess it already is for dodge roll) and it could cause frustration and make combat feel less responsive if people were waiting for animations to finish before they could block.

I'm not against eliminating block casting. But there are a lot of issues to consider. It's not black and white.