Deviance, Second in World to Down Serpent, with best time yet!

RavishedPsyche

Michaeljdaveyb16_ESO wrote: »

Congratulations!!!!

can you link the video in this thread when you're done, and do you have anyone who streams your raid nights also?

We may start streaming our raid nights, and while a tutorial video is being discussed due to all the objections, we will be posting our video of us killing serpent. No "how to" but just the video to let people see the fight.

Butters21

LP will never post a guide, if people need help with Manitkora I have plenty of time for anyone who needs help with understanding mechanics. Will post videos but a very,very long time after or when most guilds are completing it.

Robert_Pendragon

Why so serious guys? We all in LP understand the thrill of seeing a boss for the first time and figuring out mechanics bit by bit, and the joy of finally conquering it. So yes, definitely no strat vid from us =D Have fun wiping on Serpent, everyone =P

Jules

Wiping and learning the mechanics is a part of the process. That pride that you feel after struggling with something and then downing it is that rush that we all play for. If people need someone else to do the heavy lifting for them- ie: explaining in detail all the strats, then why even bother?

Sure, it'll still take the execution, but that takes all of the fun and sense of accomplishment out of it. Not to mention it waters down the achievement for the rest of us pushing through.

In short, literally 2 guilds in the world have cleared this. Posting videos and guides for this is definitely premature and problematic for those of us still pushing for clears legitimately.

Tripwyr

Jules wrote: »

Wiping and learning the mechanics is a part of the process. That pride that you feel after struggling with something and then downing it is that rush that we all play for. If people need someone else to do the heavy lifting for them- ie: explaining in detail all the strats, then why even bother?

Sure, it'll still take the execution, but that takes all of the fun and sense of accomplishment out of it. Not to mention it waters down the achievement for the rest of us pushing through.

In short, literally 2 guilds in the world have cleared this. Posting videos and guides for this is definitely premature and problematic for those of us still pushing for clears legitimately.

Robert_Pendragon wrote: »

Why so serious guys? We all in LP understand the thrill of seeing a boss for the first time and figuring out mechanics bit by bit, and the joy of finally conquering it. So yes, definitely no strat vid from us =D Have fun wiping on Serpent, everyone =P

Butters21 wrote: »

LP will never post a guide, if people need help with Manitkora I have plenty of time for anyone who needs help with understanding mechanics. Will post videos but a very,very long time after or when most guilds are completing it.

Anjelicus wrote: »

Congrats on the kill!

For guilds actually trying to be competitive in PvE, I'm sure they would not appreciate strategies being posted for these; at least for about a month after the kill. Honestly learning these fights is one of the few things that keeps alot of us still around in ESO. I Personally am against releasing strats at this point in time.

Completely agree. Very disappointed in Defiance's choice. Here are most of the other guilds competing at this level and asking that a video not be released.

Syntse

Wow what a discussion about posting video of new dungeon bosses. Like someone said before if one is still learning to win it then do not watch video about killing it. If finding the way to win boss is only thing that keeps interested of PvE I repeat do not watch the video.

I'm not competitive but I do enjoy watching skilled players do content especially these 12 man dungeons as most likely I will never get to do them myself. And I have been waiting long enough to see some serpent trials videos.

Tripwyr

Syntse wrote: »

Wow what a discussion about posting video of new dungeon bosses. Like someone said before if one is still learning to win it then do not watch video about killing it. If finding the way to win boss is only thing that keeps interested of PvE I repeat do not watch the video.

I'm not competitive but I do enjoy watching skilled players do content especially these 12 man dungeons as most likely I will never get to do them myself. And I have been waiting long enough to see some serpent trials videos.

Again, the problem here is that posting a video prevents competitive guilds from "learning" the fight because they are forced to watch the video in order to compete with other guilds.

RavishedPsyche

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slMBwg-CQdA

Well this is the Serpent video. No explanation but everyone should be able to see it if they would like to.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=slMBwg-CQdA

Jules

Wow.

Manpoints

Dog Move. Dog guild. Show 0 respect for other guilds, expect 0 respect back.

Tripwyr

Manpoints wrote: »

Dog Move. Dog guild. Show 0 respect for other guilds, expect 0 respect back.

Agree wholeheartedly. We may not always agree, but at least we have the respect to give other guilds time to clear content before posting videos.

Manpoints

Tripwyr wrote: »

Manpoints wrote: »

Dog Move. Dog guild. Show 0 respect for other guilds, expect 0 respect back.

Agree wholeheartedly. We may not always agree, but at least we have the respect to give other guilds time to clear content before posting videos.

Hope ZOS has new PVE content on the horizon because your 4 months of content just turned to 2.

Syntse

Tripwyr wrote: »

Again, the problem here is that posting a video prevents competitive guilds from "learning" the fight because they are forced to watch the video in order to compete with other guilds.

Again I do not understand what or who is forcing? Some guilds already completed then you have already lost the race so to speak. Where's the competition?

So if you are still competing of who does it 3rd or 4th or 5th then there must be some gentleman rule that one does not watch videos or tutorials on how it is done. You can still do it by learning on your own and enjoying, afaik nobody is pointing gun at your heads and saying watch this or die.

Since competitive guilds seem to be so serious about it then create ranking system if one is not yet still in place. Create rules like no watching tutorials. If guild likes to be part of this "official" ranking then they must obey the rules, otherwise they are not recognized and you don't have to worry about some random guild beating you to complete content because they watched tutorial.

Tripwyr

Syntse wrote: »

Tripwyr wrote: »

Again, the problem here is that posting a video prevents competitive guilds from "learning" the fight because they are forced to watch the video in order to compete with other guilds.

Again I do not understand what or who is forcing? Some guilds already completed then you have already lost the race so to speak. Where's the competition?

So if you are still competing of who does it 3rd or 4th or 5th then there must be some gentleman rule that one does not watch videos or tutorials on how it is done. You can still do it by learning on your own and enjoying, afaik nobody is pointing gun at your heads and saying watch this or die.

Since competitive guilds seem to be so serious about it then create ranking system if one is not yet still in place. Create rules like no watching tutorials. If guild likes to be part of this "official" ranking then they must obey the rules, otherwise they are not recognized and you don't have to worry about some random guild beating you to complete content because they watched tutorial.

Unfortunately not at all how competition works. All guilds are competing to try to complete the content in a timely manner relative to other guilds, and these achievements trickle down into things like recruitment, visibility, etc. These real-world advantages to killing the boss in a timely and competitive manner outweigh any desire for a fair and competitive environment. The only way to maintain such an environment is for guilds who have already cleared the content to keep the strategies/videos/etc to themselves and give other guilds time to learn and complete the content on their own.

RavishedPsyche

To be clear, every guild did not ask me NOT to put a video up. Some asked me to not put a guide up. Seeing as how Mantikora videos started this way I don't see anything wrong with giving minor help to people struggling. This is not about showing off of being selfish. This has NOTHING to do with the guilds who are complaining. It has to do with the guilds who are struggling.

The top tier guilds does not ESO make. We need the casual players and those who aren't totally hard core to be having fun too. To say "figure it out on your own" is fun for some people but not all. IF you don't want to watch the video, don't. No one is forcing you to do so. I'm not doing a tutorial yet, but will make a private video for Deviance members, because I don't want to explain fights every time I have a new member wanting to get through the trial.

Also, this video shows a preview, and gives people ideas sure, but there is a lot of room for errors, not to mention there is no voice, except the "YES YAY" and such at the end. You want to call me selfish? I call everyone who opposes helping the majority of players in favor of the elite selfish. This is a game, competition is fun yes, and this video isn't the end of competition. If you think it is I really think you might want to alt f4 and unsubscribe.

If content can't be completed by the majority it will be nerfed, not to mention people will get even more discouraged with the game. This video was made to give people some hint as well as to let people see the fight who have never been able to get there and who are flustered with the trial in general. I meant no disrespect to anyone, and will hold off on tutorials for the time being due to the fears expressed by the top tier guilds.

Tripwyr

Anjelicus wrote: »

Congrats on the kill!

For guilds actually trying to be competitive in PvE, I'm sure they would not appreciate strategies being posted for these; at least for about a month after the kill. Honestly learning these fights is one of the few things that keeps alot of us still around in ESO. I Personally am against releasing strats at this point in time.

Jules wrote: »

Wiping and learning the mechanics is a part of the process. That pride that you feel after struggling with something and then downing it is that rush that we all play for. If people need someone else to do the heavy lifting for them- ie: explaining in detail all the strats, then why even bother?

Sure, it'll still take the execution, but that takes all of the fun and sense of accomplishment out of it. Not to mention it waters down the achievement for the rest of us pushing through.

In short, literally 2 guilds in the world have cleared this. Posting videos and guides for this is definitely premature and problematic for those of us still pushing for clears legitimately.

Butters21 wrote: »

LP will never post a guide, if people need help with Manitkora I have plenty of time for anyone who needs help with understanding mechanics. Will post videos but a very,very long time after or when most guilds are completing it.

Robert_Pendragon wrote: »

Why so serious guys? We all in LP understand the thrill of seeing a boss for the first time and figuring out mechanics bit by bit, and the joy of finally conquering it. So yes, definitely no strat vid from us =D Have fun wiping on Serpent, everyone =P

So far I haven't seen a single group who did wish for you to post a video.

Posting a video, posting a strategy guide, etc. These are all the same to competitive guilds, we can see your strategies, I can see what you are doing especially from the perspective of the tank.

Posting a video and killing competition for every guild who clears it from now on is offensive and extremely detrimental to the growth of a PvE community in this game. This level of selfish delusion is reprehensible and I am not aware of a single guild who respects your decision to post a video so prematurely.

We all know how you operate, and every guild who clears it from now on "did it with Deviance's help" just like when Hodor posted their DSA video. Extremely selfish choice by Deviance.

RavishedPsyche

If videos are now considered strats, then LP and Alacrity has posted "strats" on the Mantikora.

Tripwyr

RavishedPsyche wrote: »

If videos are now considered strats, then LP and Alacrity has posted "strats" on the Mantikora.

Yes, as we said earlier we waited for several guilds to complete the boss before posting strategies. In case you are unaware, Alacrity, Deviance, Last Prodigies, Potato, Da Funk, Hodor, and the EU guild who beat you to Serpent had already cleared Mantikora before anybody posted anything.

Manoekin

RavishedPsyche wrote: »

To be clear, every guild did not ask me NOT to put a video up. Some asked me to not put a guide up. Seeing as how Mantikora videos started this way I don't see anything wrong with giving minor help to people struggling. This is not about showing off of being selfish. This has NOTHING to do with the guilds who are complaining. It has to do with the guilds who are struggling.

The top tier guilds does not ESO make. We need the casual players and those who aren't totally hard core to be having fun too. To say "figure it out on your own" is fun for some people but not all. IF you don't want to watch the video, don't. No one is forcing you to do so. I'm not doing a tutorial yet, but will make a private video for Deviance members, because I don't want to explain fights every time I have a new member wanting to get through the trial.

Also, this video shows a preview, and gives people ideas sure, but there is a lot of room for errors, not to mention there is no voice, except the "YES YAY" and such at the end. You want to call me selfish? I call everyone who opposes helping the majority of players in favor of the elite selfish. This is a game, competition is fun yes, and this video isn't the end of competition. If you think it is I really think you might want to alt f4 and unsubscribe.

If content can't be completed by the majority it will be nerfed, not to mention people will get even more discouraged with the game. This video was made to give people some hint as well as to let people see the fight who have never been able to get there and who are flustered with the trial in general. I meant no disrespect to anyone, and will hold off on tutorials for the time being due to the fears expressed by the top tier guilds.

You don't need a tutorial because a video without voice is even enough to give away everything. No one's going to quit the game because they didn't get to see a video of a boss. People are going to quit the game because you've taken all of the fun out of the boss fight and rendered any form of race to kill it next meaningless. Make no mistake... doing this is to make it all about you.

Jules

It's pretty clear that everyone thinks you guys are being entirely selfish. Guilds that are stuck are not stuck on serpent, they are stuck on Mantikora. The guilds that are stuck on Serpent are undeniably those who are interested in doing it themselves. Thank you for taking every ounce of competition out of this instance.

Butters21

I'm not for bickering, drama, blame etc. But I wasn't approached or asked about If we had a Serpent video to release. There is a certain level of respect and unwritten laws where the first guild to work ridiculously hard to get that first kill should be given priority over things like that. Also a video of Serpent is way to early give people a chance to get there.

Not flaming nor do I want to argue, Last Prodigies will not be posting a Serpent video in the near future or possibly ever. If anyone needs help with anything feel free to talk to me or add me in-game @butters21 or toon name Butters.

Best of luck to everyone in the future.
Butters GM of Last Prodigies.

jake_hgrwb17_ESO

im seeing all the arguments here and while i kinda get the point why some ppl are pissed off, the reality here is if some guild wants to post their own video they made, it really has nothing to do with anyone else, really lol, the only reason you'd be annoyed at other people seeing the strat is coz egotistically you wanna be one of the only people to achieve beating the serpent, which is fine and understandable, but you can't dictate what other people/guilds choose to do, p.s. this is just my humble unbiased opinion, i hate you all equally . @prowlius.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Rude and Insulting Comments]

tinyt

https://youtube.com/watch?v=hIQvdzOAUvs

Sublime

Tripwyr wrote: »

Anjelicus wrote: »

Congrats on the kill!

For guilds actually trying to be competitive in PvE, I'm sure they would not appreciate strategies being posted for these; at least for about a month after the kill. Honestly learning these fights is one of the few things that keeps alot of us still around in ESO. I Personally am against releasing strats at this point in time.

Jules wrote: »

Wiping and learning the mechanics is a part of the process. That pride that you feel after struggling with something and then downing it is that rush that we all play for. If people need someone else to do the heavy lifting for them- ie: explaining in detail all the strats, then why even bother?

Sure, it'll still take the execution, but that takes all of the fun and sense of accomplishment out of it. Not to mention it waters down the achievement for the rest of us pushing through.

In short, literally 2 guilds in the world have cleared this. Posting videos and guides for this is definitely premature and problematic for those of us still pushing for clears legitimately.

Butters21 wrote: »

LP will never post a guide, if people need help with Manitkora I have plenty of time for anyone who needs help with understanding mechanics. Will post videos but a very,very long time after or when most guilds are completing it.

Robert_Pendragon wrote: »

Why so serious guys? We all in LP understand the thrill of seeing a boss for the first time and figuring out mechanics bit by bit, and the joy of finally conquering it. So yes, definitely no strat vid from us =D Have fun wiping on Serpent, everyone =P

So far I haven't seen a single group who did wish for you to post a video.

Posting a video, posting a strategy guide, etc. These are all the same to competitive guilds, we can see your strategies, I can see what you are doing especially from the perspective of the tank.

Posting a video and killing competition for every guild who clears it from now on is offensive and extremely detrimental to the growth of a PvE community in this game. This level of selfish delusion is reprehensible and I am not aware of a single guild who respects your decision to post a video so prematurely.

We all know how you operate, and every guild who clears it from now on "did it with Deviance's help" just like when Hodor posted their DSA video. Extremely selfish choice by Deviance.

I might not be a group but I appreciate them posting videos of their trial clears, since they are entertaining to watch and useful to learn new stuff.

TheMast3r

We agree with Deviance its time to bring other ppl into the position to go into sanctum. Even with the mantikora tactic and the serpent tactic it will be challenging enough. The World First´s are gone and for us the video was not showing any new special trick which we didn't figured out by ourselves. Its just a trial which needs perfect execution and teamwork and the time for 12 ppl to run it every night till it the whole team is working perfectly.

And if you like to enjoy the content and figure it out by yourself then do it. You don't have to watch the video.

This game need more players and the videos will help ...

Madini HODOR

Hektlk

What fun is an Elder Scrolls game if there is a video strategy for everything?

ericprydz82ub17_ESO

As someone that was in the kill which Deviance did, I can say that I am saddened that they took the honor away from LP and posted a video prior to them and prior to at least 5 guilds killing the last boss.

As a fellow MMO veteran of 10 years and someone who enjoys nothing more than to compete at the highest levels of PVE team play, I feel very disappointed and let down by the lack of true competitive spirit from Deviance leadership for posting the video. I am not mad at any member in particular and nor do I dislike anyone from the guild but I thought I would just share how I felt.

And to the Deviance leadership that reads this, I do hope you learn that when you play at a high competitive level you set more standards for future content/others and learn that time management is of the utmost importance and respect/learn what the polite thing to do in a situation like this would be.

Mahogany

Congratulations on the clear, but I echo the sentiments of those above who are concerned that this was a bit premature.

themizario

I echo that people who have a problem with the video are narcissistic elitist who think that this should be some kind of secret for a select few. Don't watch it. Watch it. Get over it.

RavishedPsyche

TheMast3r wrote: »

We agree with Deviance its time to bring other ppl into the position to go into sanctum. Even with the mantikora tactic and the serpent tactic it will be challenging enough. The World First´s are gone and for us the video was not showing any new special trick which we didn't figured out by ourselves. Its just a trial which needs perfect execution and teamwork and the time for 12 ppl to run it every night till it the whole team is working perfectly.

And if you like to enjoy the content and figure it out by yourself then do it. You don't have to watch the video.

This game need more players and the videos will help ...

Madini HODOR

THANK YOU! There is someone in a top tier guild that isn't acting like an elitist. This isn't a guide video. I WANT to post guide videos, but am going to hold off a bit for those who haven't completed yet. IF however people want to continue saying this is a guide I'll post some guides and show them the difference.

From this video you can take some small things that might keep you from wiping immediately. I didn't give away the keys to the kingdom here. My reasons were also the following:

1. Above all else, to allow people a hint, also to let people see "hey this is a cool fight I want to get there too." So the groups that can get to the serpent (while few) don't have to wipe 20 times to see any of the fight. Sorry but some people get frustrated after wiping that much, and there are enough frustrations in this game. No need to add more.

2.My team wanted to make a video to acknowledge everyone.

3. While I am sorry some took this as a disrespectful approach toward LP, they had plenty of time to post a video if they were going to post one any time soon. Seeing that they didn't have the same ideals as myself with wanting others to get glimpse of the content, I don't feel I needed anyone's permission.

I would also like to point out, that if it is true in some saying they would go help others and answer any questions about content, what makes that different than a video? Honestly it is worse from the perspective that many of you are coming from.

themizario wrote: »

I echo that people who have a problem with the video are narcissistic elitist who think that this should be some kind of secret for a select few. Don't watch it. Watch it. Get over it.

And to this individual. Thank you as well, I couldn't have said it better. This is indeed how people are appearing who stand against a simple video. If everyone "disappointed" and "offended" and "pissed" at this video was to quit the game, verses all the people who are getting frustrated with the content- which do you all think would be the bigger demographic? ESO has stated they want a casual gaming experience in a good many ways, why give them need to nerf something?

If this is being "selfish" I guess Deviance is one of the first to be called selfish for sharing. Get over yourselves.