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Jesus Zenimax fix Werewolf already and make it competitive!
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Taz✭✭✭I believe he mentioned that they're going to push out some quick fix sort of updates first, and then more of an overhaul will be done a bit later.1 -
Cyrdemaceb17_ESO✭✭✭I wrote a short summary about werewolves from the Quakecon here
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/88805/fix-the-werewolf#latest1 -
Gizzarduk✭✭✭Good news, guess I need to go get bitten again!
Show all Weapons, Check it out and add support.
forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/112889/feature-request-show-both-weapon-slots-on-the-character-at-all-times0 -
Humanistic✭✭✭✭I think WW should be a toggle. Would be nice to stay in WW form for as long as I would like. If not possible then at least increase the timer so I don't feel like I am rushed to kill as many things as possible.
Also I think some passives that help out human form would be nice. Maybe a boost to stamina or something.
It should be a toggle - but ONLY during night time. During the day, it should work as it does now (with even less ultimate needed - that cost is just ridiculous). This way keeps it true to what it is, realistically - and seems more like an Elder Scrolls way of thinking.2 -
timidobserver✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭They should probably just scrap the current WW concept entirely and rebuild it from the bottom up. They seem to be in favor of making minor tweaks, but that just isn't going to work with WW. MOAR DAMAGE is not going to fix the problem with WW.
What they are trying to do is neat, but it just won't work within the current constraints of the game. I don't think there is anything they can do to fix the current WW system to the point that it would be desirable to have a WW actually using his WW ultimate in a Trials, Dungeon, or PVP group.
Edited by timidobserver on 27 July 2014 06:10V16 Uriel Stormblessed EP Magicka Templar(main)
V16 Derelict Vagabond EP Stamina DK
V16 Redacted Ep Stam Sorc
V16 Insolent EP Magicka Sorc(retired)
V16 Jed I Nyte EP Stamina NB(retired)2 -
Sonja✭✭✭timidobserver wrote: »They should probably just scrap the current WW concept entirely and rebuild it from the bottom up. They seem to be in favor of making minor tweaks, but that just isn't going to work with WW. MOAR DAMAGE is not going to fix the problem with WW.
What they are trying to do is neat, but it just won't work within the current constraints of the game. I don't think there is anything they can do to fix the current WW system to the point that it would be desirable to have a WW actually using his WW ultimate in a Trials, Dungeon, or PVP group.
Exactly, and revamp is what we (players) want and ask for, i expect first ww update to go live with update 3, if not we will take up pitchforks again and return to the forums >.>1 -
Cyrdemaceb17_ESO✭✭✭timidobserver wrote: »They should probably just scrap the current WW concept entirely and rebuild it from the bottom up. They seem to be in favor of making minor tweaks, but that just isn't going to work with WW. MOAR DAMAGE is not going to fix the problem with WW.
What they are trying to do is neat, but it just won't work within the current constraints of the game. I don't think there is anything they can do to fix the current WW system to the point that it would be desirable to have a WW actually using his WW ultimate in a Trials, Dungeon, or PVP group.
Exactly, and revamp is what we (players) want and ask for, i expect first ww update to go live with update 3, if not we will take up pitchforks again and return to the forums >.>
Start getting your pitchforks then. There are no updates for WW on PTS with update 3 so far.0 -
timidobserver✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Idea: The WW ultimate has two full 5 slot skill lines attached to it. You get a Tank Skill line and a heavier look if you pick one morph and DPS skill line with a sleeker but still powerful look if you pick the morph?
*To make it viable and desired to have in PVE groups, for tanking, I would give WW the only AoE taunt in the game by adding an AoE taunt to roar when using the Tank WW Morph. This change alone would make it instantly able to be included in groups for tanking.
*The DPS WW morph would need an AoE, and I would also give them a group buff that increases the melee and spell critical of their group by 5-10%. Adjust their damage so that they can pull off acceptable single target dps.
*I would raise the overcharge cap of health and health regen for anyone in WW form by 10-20% just because WWs are known for having serious health regeneration abilities.
*WWs are known for being resistant to magical damage in most stories that include them, so I would give them an ability that works similarly to harness magicka. However, it would be active all the time and it would restore stamina or health as opposed to magicka.
*I would also make WW Form togglable so that you can access it at will. People are completing trials in under 10 minutes. Taking 10-15 minutes per use your WW ultimate is not an option for a a build that will be useful in the end game.
Edited by timidobserver on 27 July 2014 21:42V16 Uriel Stormblessed EP Magicka Templar(main)
V16 Derelict Vagabond EP Stamina DK
V16 Redacted Ep Stam Sorc
V16 Insolent EP Magicka Sorc(retired)
V16 Jed I Nyte EP Stamina NB(retired)0 -
Sunrock✭✭✭timidobserver wrote: »They should probably just scrap the current WW concept entirely and rebuild it from the bottom up. They seem to be in favor of making minor tweaks, but that just isn't going to work with WW. MOAR DAMAGE is not going to fix the problem with WW.
What they are trying to do is neat, but it just won't work within the current constraints of the game. I don't think there is anything they can do to fix the current WW system to the point that it would be desirable to have a WW actually using his WW ultimate in a Trials, Dungeon, or PVP group.
Well... As I see it the damage at least not the burst damage is a problem for the WW. Especially when attacking off balanced targets.
I recently leveled up the WW on my V12 Templar using V12 blue Salvation set that drops in the trials. Mostly for the upcoming achievement in 1.3. Tock me around 3 hours to get to Skill 10 WW from the time I got bitten, just by grinding mobs.
I also tested WW in Cyrodiil while PvPing with a full PUG yesterday. And it made me feel really OP at times and at other it made me feel very week. In other words the WW is a glass cannon. If I transformed at the moment the enemy lines brakes and they start to retreat a bit I can *** them up hard. It only takes 1 heavy and 2 -3 light attacks to finish off anyone in light armor. However do never ever try to use WW to go first into a big group defending. You die horrible even with 2 pocket healers. Your survivability as WW is close to nothing in PvP thanks to the fighters guild and all the bow users spaming poison arrows.
But even in PvE your WW survivability is really the probelm not your damage. Soloing in WW form when PvE'ing is not ideal. I can take on allot more if I'm in human for. However if I play in a group and have a tank and a healer I can do more damage over all in WW form. And if I play with other WW in the group and we all go WW at the same time... OMG!
In conclusion I think WW is a really good glass cannon so only really works in group play. If you want a "solo build" go Vampire or just stay "human".
PS: If you want WW to be more solo friendly ZOS need to give WW more defense not more offense abilities.
PPS: One sugestion to "fix" WW is to lower the ultimate cost from 750 that it is today to 500 ultimate points. And then maybe buff the Salvation set a bit from 33% utimate reduction cost to 40%. Today using a full set of the seducer set is a most if you're a WW anyway.
Or... Just change the Salvation set so 33% reduction during day time. 66% during the night.Edited by Sunrock on 28 July 2014 19:080 -
timidobserver✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭@Sunrock
You are talking in terms of leveling and solo play from what I can tell. My comments were coming from the perspective of group play/end game. I am not that concerned about solo play because, after the nerfs, it is the player that is the problem if they can't do the content.
My primary concern is the lack of use for WW in end game/group content. As it stands, they are of no use in a serious PVP group or a Trials group. This is important because it means that WW's currently have no place in the progression of the game since the endgame consists mostly of group content ATM.V16 Uriel Stormblessed EP Magicka Templar(main)
V16 Derelict Vagabond EP Stamina DK
V16 Redacted Ep Stam Sorc
V16 Insolent EP Magicka Sorc(retired)
V16 Jed I Nyte EP Stamina NB(retired)0 -
Sunrock✭✭✭timidobserver wrote: »@Sunrock
You are talking in terms of leveling and solo play from what I can tell. My comments were coming from the perspective of group play/end game. I am not that concerned about solo play because, after the nerfs, it is the player that is the problem if they can't do the content.
My primary concern is the lack of use for WW in end game/group content. As it stands, they are of no use in a serious PVP group or a Trials group. This is important because it means that WW's currently have no place in the progression of the game since the endgame consists mostly of group content ATM.
Yes if you want to mini/max you should not go WW at all for end game. If you don't go destro staff light armor spaming AOEs in PvP your a liability to the group as a DD. But WW works in group PvP if the right opportunity show it self. If you can afford to have it as a secondary ultimate. For Trials though there is no way in hell you can spam up the ultimate to transform into a WW between every boss even. Have never tried WW in Trials as I usually play the healer roll in Trials. But there is no way in hell you could take a WW on a speed run even if you manage to get WW between each boss. You can do 450-500 DPS as a WW without putting any attribute point into stamina, only on the armor. So if you're a Templar and want to DPS as WW it's ok as you can't do mush better sustained DPS anyway.
However they did say that they did not want WW or Vampire to be a most have for DPS. So IMO the WW DPS is ok.
PS: IMO WW or Vamp should not be a "most have" for PvP or PvE so...Edited by Sunrock on 28 July 2014 23:180 -
Ilven✭the wolves are hunters like wolves, though I'm a werewolf are 24 hours 24, not 30 seconds, we would need to change shape at will and be able to stay in our wolf form what we want. as a hunter should have the ability to hide to catch their prey by surprise.1 -
timidobserver✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭timidobserver wrote: »@Sunrock
You are talking in terms of leveling and solo play from what I can tell. My comments were coming from the perspective of group play/end game. I am not that concerned about solo play because, after the nerfs, it is the player that is the problem if they can't do the content.
My primary concern is the lack of use for WW in end game/group content. As it stands, they are of no use in a serious PVP group or a Trials group. This is important because it means that WW's currently have no place in the progression of the game since the endgame consists mostly of group content ATM.
Yes if you want to mini/max you should not go WW at all for end game. If you don't go destro staff light armor spaming AOEs in PvP your a liability to the group as a DD. But WW works in group PvP if the right opportunity show it self. If you can afford to have it as a secondary ultimate. For Trials though there is no way in hell you can spam up the ultimate to transform into a WW between every boss even. Have never tried WW in Trials as I usually play the healer roll in Trials. But there is no way in hell you could take a WW on a speed run even if you manage to get WW between each boss. You can do 450-500 DPS as a WW without putting any attribute point into stamina, only on the armor. So if you're a Templar and want to DPS as WW it's ok as you can't do mush better sustained DPS anyway.
However they did say that they did not want WW or Vampire to be a most have for DPS. So IMO the WW DPS is ok.
PS: IMO WW or Vamp should not be a "most have" for PvP or PvE so...
It isn't about having the most DPS. It is about having some level of viability. There is nothing stopping you from doing what you want, but nobody has a desire to have a WW in their group for any reason ATM. A casual group will allow you in to be nice, but a serious group would group kick you from a trials or a pvp group once they saw you using you werewolf form.
A Templar using their class dps options would be more beneficial because they can obtain max single target dps from range. Having mediocre dps and having to do it from melee range is why a WW using their ultimate are even worse then Templar.
Edited by timidobserver on 29 July 2014 01:08V16 Uriel Stormblessed EP Magicka Templar(main)
V16 Derelict Vagabond EP Stamina DK
V16 Redacted Ep Stam Sorc
V16 Insolent EP Magicka Sorc(retired)
V16 Jed I Nyte EP Stamina NB(retired)1 -
Sunrock✭✭✭timidobserver wrote: »timidobserver wrote: »@Sunrock
You are talking in terms of leveling and solo play from what I can tell. My comments were coming from the perspective of group play/end game. I am not that concerned about solo play because, after the nerfs, it is the player that is the problem if they can't do the content.
My primary concern is the lack of use for WW in end game/group content. As it stands, they are of no use in a serious PVP group or a Trials group. This is important because it means that WW's currently have no place in the progression of the game since the endgame consists mostly of group content ATM.
Yes if you want to mini/max you should not go WW at all for end game. If you don't go destro staff light armor spaming AOEs in PvP your a liability to the group as a DD. But WW works in group PvP if the right opportunity show it self. If you can afford to have it as a secondary ultimate. For Trials though there is no way in hell you can spam up the ultimate to transform into a WW between every boss even. Have never tried WW in Trials as I usually play the healer roll in Trials. But there is no way in hell you could take a WW on a speed run even if you manage to get WW between each boss. You can do 450-500 DPS as a WW without putting any attribute point into stamina, only on the armor. So if you're a Templar and want to DPS as WW it's ok as you can't do mush better sustained DPS anyway.
However they did say that they did not want WW or Vampire to be a most have for DPS. So IMO the WW DPS is ok.
PS: IMO WW or Vamp should not be a "most have" for PvP or PvE so...
It isn't about having the most DPS. It is about having some level of viability. There is nothing stopping you from doing what you want, but nobody has a desire to have a WW in their group for any reason ATM. A casual group will allow you in to be nice, but a serious group would group kick you from a trials or a pvp group once they saw you using you werewolf form.
A Templar using their class dps options would be more beneficial because they can obtain max single target dps from range. Having mediocre dps and having to do it from melee range is why a WW using their ultimate are even worse then Templar.
I agree in general with you. Especially when it comes to trials. However both AA and HR game mechanics are stupidly easy. So there are no real risk for melee range in those two. IE the healers have no problem just out heal all the damage if you use nova and vial at the right moments. In fact speed run boss tactics is: stack up in the ultimate and burn the boss ASAP. No fancy dodging or even care about any game mechanics the bosses use... expect for using damage reduction ultimates at the right moments.
Put for PvP... WW works there under special circumstances. If your PvP leader can't see that he sucks at PvP to start with and you should consider your self lucky that he kicked you from the group so you can fine one that knows how to PvP. But it's nothing you can use regularly as it all depends how the enemy reacts to your group so nothing I would recommend to the unexperienced PvPer. And defiantly not something you "need" as you can pull off same thing with just normal weapon abilities. However WW is not really worth the skill points consider how long time it takes to charge the ultimate in PvP. It would be worth it if the ultimate cost was reduced... allot. Or that you could turn to WW at will. Only if you have 25 SP or something like that you can burn just for fun you can pick it up just to test something different.
PS: As I sad before I mainly picked up WW for the upcoming achievements it gives as I had 60 skill points just sitting there and you get almost free skill reset in 1.3. But I don't find WW as bad as some people makes it sound like. The main problem with WW is the same problem all stamina builds with melee weapons have. So they need to fix "stamina builds" first.0 -
Sonja✭✭✭timidobserver wrote: »timidobserver wrote: »@Sunrock
You are talking in terms of leveling and solo play from what I can tell. My comments were coming from the perspective of group play/end game. I am not that concerned about solo play because, after the nerfs, it is the player that is the problem if they can't do the content.
My primary concern is the lack of use for WW in end game/group content. As it stands, they are of no use in a serious PVP group or a Trials group. This is important because it means that WW's currently have no place in the progression of the game since the endgame consists mostly of group content ATM.
Yes if you want to mini/max you should not go WW at all for end game. If you don't go destro staff light armor spaming AOEs in PvP your a liability to the group as a DD. But WW works in group PvP if the right opportunity show it self. If you can afford to have it as a secondary ultimate. For Trials though there is no way in hell you can spam up the ultimate to transform into a WW between every boss even. Have never tried WW in Trials as I usually play the healer roll in Trials. But there is no way in hell you could take a WW on a speed run even if you manage to get WW between each boss. You can do 450-500 DPS as a WW without putting any attribute point into stamina, only on the armor. So if you're a Templar and want to DPS as WW it's ok as you can't do mush better sustained DPS anyway.
However they did say that they did not want WW or Vampire to be a most have for DPS. So IMO the WW DPS is ok.
PS: IMO WW or Vamp should not be a "most have" for PvP or PvE so...
It isn't about having the most DPS. It is about having some level of viability. There is nothing stopping you from doing what you want, but nobody has a desire to have a WW in their group for any reason ATM. A casual group will allow you in to be nice, but a serious group would group kick you from a trials or a pvp group once they saw you using you werewolf form.
A Templar using their class dps options would be more beneficial because they can obtain max single target dps from range. Having mediocre dps and having to do it from melee range is why a WW using their ultimate are even worse then Templar.
I agree in general with you. Especially when it comes to trials. However both AA and HR game mechanics are stupidly easy. So there are no real risk for melee range in those two. IE the healers have no problem just out heal all the damage if you use nova and vial at the right moments. In fact speed run boss tactics is: stack up in the ultimate and burn the boss ASAP. No fancy dodging or even care about any game mechanics the bosses use... expect for using damage reduction ultimates at the right moments.
Put for PvP... WW works there under special circumstances. If your PvP leader can't see that he sucks at PvP to start with and you should consider your self lucky that he kicked you from the group so you can fine one that knows how to PvP. But it's nothing you can use regularly as it all depends how the enemy reacts to your group so nothing I would recommend to the unexperienced PvPer. And defiantly not something you "need" as you can pull off same thing with just normal weapon abilities. However WW is not really worth the skill points consider how long time it takes to charge the ultimate in PvP. It would be worth it if the ultimate cost was reduced... allot. Or that you could turn to WW at will. Only if you have 25 SP or something like that you can burn just for fun you can pick it up just to test something different.
PS: As I sad before I mainly picked up WW for the upcoming achievements it gives as I had 60 skill points just sitting there and you get almost free skill reset in 1.3. But I don't find WW as bad as some people makes it sound like. The main problem with WW is the same problem all stamina builds with melee weapons have. So they need to fix "stamina builds" first.
That pretty much tells me you have little experience as a werewolf, let me share 2 facts with you. Werewolf is useless, anything you can do as werewolf you can do better while in human form. Werewolf is a pure nerf to ones character, see previous posts here to get a clue. I am a vampire and a werewolf since early access so i know what they are capable of. Werewolf needs revamp, who says otherwise is either a new werewolf or simply doesn't know. This is easy to test. My user name is @jovana-M , and i will give 100.000 gold to anyone who can kill me 1vs1 as a werewolf in a werewolf form or to anyone who can do more dmg then me in a dungeon as a werewolf in its current state. The fact that you will fail at both with your 725 ultimate so hard compared to my 125 ultimate should pretty much mean that werewolf is extremely weak/broken and with that being said i rest my case.1 -
Sunrock✭✭✭timidobserver wrote: »timidobserver wrote: »@Sunrock
You are talking in terms of leveling and solo play from what I can tell. My comments were coming from the perspective of group play/end game. I am not that concerned about solo play because, after the nerfs, it is the player that is the problem if they can't do the content.
My primary concern is the lack of use for WW in end game/group content. As it stands, they are of no use in a serious PVP group or a Trials group. This is important because it means that WW's currently have no place in the progression of the game since the endgame consists mostly of group content ATM.
Yes if you want to mini/max you should not go WW at all for end game. If you don't go destro staff light armor spaming AOEs in PvP your a liability to the group as a DD. But WW works in group PvP if the right opportunity show it self. If you can afford to have it as a secondary ultimate. For Trials though there is no way in hell you can spam up the ultimate to transform into a WW between every boss even. Have never tried WW in Trials as I usually play the healer roll in Trials. But there is no way in hell you could take a WW on a speed run even if you manage to get WW between each boss. You can do 450-500 DPS as a WW without putting any attribute point into stamina, only on the armor. So if you're a Templar and want to DPS as WW it's ok as you can't do mush better sustained DPS anyway.
However they did say that they did not want WW or Vampire to be a most have for DPS. So IMO the WW DPS is ok.
PS: IMO WW or Vamp should not be a "most have" for PvP or PvE so...
It isn't about having the most DPS. It is about having some level of viability. There is nothing stopping you from doing what you want, but nobody has a desire to have a WW in their group for any reason ATM. A casual group will allow you in to be nice, but a serious group would group kick you from a trials or a pvp group once they saw you using you werewolf form.
A Templar using their class dps options would be more beneficial because they can obtain max single target dps from range. Having mediocre dps and having to do it from melee range is why a WW using their ultimate are even worse then Templar.
I agree in general with you. Especially when it comes to trials. However both AA and HR game mechanics are stupidly easy. So there are no real risk for melee range in those two. IE the healers have no problem just out heal all the damage if you use nova and vial at the right moments. In fact speed run boss tactics is: stack up in the ultimate and burn the boss ASAP. No fancy dodging or even care about any game mechanics the bosses use... expect for using damage reduction ultimates at the right moments.
Put for PvP... WW works there under special circumstances. If your PvP leader can't see that he sucks at PvP to start with and you should consider your self lucky that he kicked you from the group so you can fine one that knows how to PvP. But it's nothing you can use regularly as it all depends how the enemy reacts to your group so nothing I would recommend to the unexperienced PvPer. And defiantly not something you "need" as you can pull off same thing with just normal weapon abilities. However WW is not really worth the skill points consider how long time it takes to charge the ultimate in PvP. It would be worth it if the ultimate cost was reduced... allot. Or that you could turn to WW at will. Only if you have 25 SP or something like that you can burn just for fun you can pick it up just to test something different.
PS: As I sad before I mainly picked up WW for the upcoming achievements it gives as I had 60 skill points just sitting there and you get almost free skill reset in 1.3. But I don't find WW as bad as some people makes it sound like. The main problem with WW is the same problem all stamina builds with melee weapons have. So they need to fix "stamina builds" first.
That pretty much tells me you have little experience as a werewolf, let me share 2 facts with you. Werewolf is useless, anything you can do as werewolf you can do better while in human form. Werewolf is a pure nerf to ones character, see previous posts here to get a clue. I am a vampire and a werewolf since early access so i know what they are capable of. Werewolf needs revamp, who says otherwise is either a new werewolf or simply doesn't know. This is easy to test. My user name is @jovana-M , and i will give 100.000 gold to anyone who can kill me 1vs1 as a werewolf in a werewolf form or to anyone who can do more dmg then me in a dungeon as a werewolf in its current state. The fact that you will fail at both with your 725 ultimate so hard compared to my 125 ultimate should pretty much mean that werewolf is extremely weak/broken and with that being said i rest my case.
I might have little experience with WW. But I have 16 years of MMO PvP experience. And 5 years of PK MUD experience before that. And I have not played casually under all those years either.
When I say can be used in PvP I did not mean in 1 Vs 1 situations. I was only talking about "zerg" Vs "zerg" situations. And you can only use WW ultimate when you brake the enemy line and they start to retreat. Using it in any other circumstances is not recommended at all.
0 -
Sonja✭✭✭timidobserver wrote: »timidobserver wrote: »@Sunrock
You are talking in terms of leveling and solo play from what I can tell. My comments were coming from the perspective of group play/end game. I am not that concerned about solo play because, after the nerfs, it is the player that is the problem if they can't do the content.
My primary concern is the lack of use for WW in end game/group content. As it stands, they are of no use in a serious PVP group or a Trials group. This is important because it means that WW's currently have no place in the progression of the game since the endgame consists mostly of group content ATM.
Yes if you want to mini/max you should not go WW at all for end game. If you don't go destro staff light armor spaming AOEs in PvP your a liability to the group as a DD. But WW works in group PvP if the right opportunity show it self. If you can afford to have it as a secondary ultimate. For Trials though there is no way in hell you can spam up the ultimate to transform into a WW between every boss even. Have never tried WW in Trials as I usually play the healer roll in Trials. But there is no way in hell you could take a WW on a speed run even if you manage to get WW between each boss. You can do 450-500 DPS as a WW without putting any attribute point into stamina, only on the armor. So if you're a Templar and want to DPS as WW it's ok as you can't do mush better sustained DPS anyway.
However they did say that they did not want WW or Vampire to be a most have for DPS. So IMO the WW DPS is ok.
PS: IMO WW or Vamp should not be a "most have" for PvP or PvE so...
It isn't about having the most DPS. It is about having some level of viability. There is nothing stopping you from doing what you want, but nobody has a desire to have a WW in their group for any reason ATM. A casual group will allow you in to be nice, but a serious group would group kick you from a trials or a pvp group once they saw you using you werewolf form.
A Templar using their class dps options would be more beneficial because they can obtain max single target dps from range. Having mediocre dps and having to do it from melee range is why a WW using their ultimate are even worse then Templar.
I agree in general with you. Especially when it comes to trials. However both AA and HR game mechanics are stupidly easy. So there are no real risk for melee range in those two. IE the healers have no problem just out heal all the damage if you use nova and vial at the right moments. In fact speed run boss tactics is: stack up in the ultimate and burn the boss ASAP. No fancy dodging or even care about any game mechanics the bosses use... expect for using damage reduction ultimates at the right moments.
Put for PvP... WW works there under special circumstances. If your PvP leader can't see that he sucks at PvP to start with and you should consider your self lucky that he kicked you from the group so you can fine one that knows how to PvP. But it's nothing you can use regularly as it all depends how the enemy reacts to your group so nothing I would recommend to the unexperienced PvPer. And defiantly not something you "need" as you can pull off same thing with just normal weapon abilities. However WW is not really worth the skill points consider how long time it takes to charge the ultimate in PvP. It would be worth it if the ultimate cost was reduced... allot. Or that you could turn to WW at will. Only if you have 25 SP or something like that you can burn just for fun you can pick it up just to test something different.
PS: As I sad before I mainly picked up WW for the upcoming achievements it gives as I had 60 skill points just sitting there and you get almost free skill reset in 1.3. But I don't find WW as bad as some people makes it sound like. The main problem with WW is the same problem all stamina builds with melee weapons have. So they need to fix "stamina builds" first.
That pretty much tells me you have little experience as a werewolf, let me share 2 facts with you. Werewolf is useless, anything you can do as werewolf you can do better while in human form. Werewolf is a pure nerf to ones character, see previous posts here to get a clue. I am a vampire and a werewolf since early access so i know what they are capable of. Werewolf needs revamp, who says otherwise is either a new werewolf or simply doesn't know. This is easy to test. My user name is @jovana-M , and i will give 100.000 gold to anyone who can kill me 1vs1 as a werewolf in a werewolf form or to anyone who can do more dmg then me in a dungeon as a werewolf in its current state. The fact that you will fail at both with your 725 ultimate so hard compared to my 125 ultimate should pretty much mean that werewolf is extremely weak/broken and with that being said i rest my case.
I might have little experience with WW. But I have 16 years of MMO PvP experience. And 5 years of PK MUD experience before that. And I have not played casually under all those years either.
When I say can be used in PvP I did not mean in 1 Vs 1 situations. I was only talking about "zerg" Vs "zerg" situations. And you can only use WW ultimate when you brake the enemy line and they start to retreat. Using it in any other circumstances is not recommended at all.
Exactly, ultimate that costs 725 points can only be used in pvp and only when enemy starts to run away while you are being protected by your zerg..... What more needs to happen so that in your eyes it it starts being "as bad as some ppl say". Werewolf is.... And listen carefully........ IS the single weakest ultimate in whole game. I can use 14-15 soul harvest ultimates instead of 1 werewolf..... And look, that is ultimate fit to be used for any situation while ww only in situations when enemy is running away and not fighting back...... Why do i need a ultimate when i have already won??? I need ultimate to save my life , to tip the balance in my favour when i am about to die or lose. Werewolf only increases the chances that i end up dead and it is only ultimate in game that doesn't help you in any way be it pvp or pve.Edited by Sonja on 29 July 2014 09:332 -
Mori✭WW in its current form is a joke, only to be used for roleplaying.
We have already proven that you loose weapon damage when going into ww form, so its more profitable for you to stay human so you can use your own skills and heal yourself and to break out of cc.
ive tried going ww in pvp several times, sometimes i get lucky and gets a few kills in the confusion as you say, but most of the time they laugh, cc me and kill me in 2 secods. the fact that we cant break out of cc is just stupid. being a ww and 10 times more strength than a man, and one snap with a finger totally incapacitates us...
not to mention the cost....over 700 ultimate takes a long time to muster up in pvp, and u need to wait for the proper time to use it..***...it is like sonja says, you want ultimate to give u a certain advantage in a fight or like a oh *** button to save you, not when you have already won, lol.
the fixes cant come fast enough, and they better be sweeeeeeet, or else...1 -
Sunrock✭✭✭timidobserver wrote: »timidobserver wrote: »@Sunrock
You are talking in terms of leveling and solo play from what I can tell. My comments were coming from the perspective of group play/end game. I am not that concerned about solo play because, after the nerfs, it is the player that is the problem if they can't do the content.
My primary concern is the lack of use for WW in end game/group content. As it stands, they are of no use in a serious PVP group or a Trials group. This is important because it means that WW's currently have no place in the progression of the game since the endgame consists mostly of group content ATM.
Yes if you want to mini/max you should not go WW at all for end game. If you don't go destro staff light armor spaming AOEs in PvP your a liability to the group as a DD. But WW works in group PvP if the right opportunity show it self. If you can afford to have it as a secondary ultimate. For Trials though there is no way in hell you can spam up the ultimate to transform into a WW between every boss even. Have never tried WW in Trials as I usually play the healer roll in Trials. But there is no way in hell you could take a WW on a speed run even if you manage to get WW between each boss. You can do 450-500 DPS as a WW without putting any attribute point into stamina, only on the armor. So if you're a Templar and want to DPS as WW it's ok as you can't do mush better sustained DPS anyway.
However they did say that they did not want WW or Vampire to be a most have for DPS. So IMO the WW DPS is ok.
PS: IMO WW or Vamp should not be a "most have" for PvP or PvE so...
It isn't about having the most DPS. It is about having some level of viability. There is nothing stopping you from doing what you want, but nobody has a desire to have a WW in their group for any reason ATM. A casual group will allow you in to be nice, but a serious group would group kick you from a trials or a pvp group once they saw you using you werewolf form.
A Templar using their class dps options would be more beneficial because they can obtain max single target dps from range. Having mediocre dps and having to do it from melee range is why a WW using their ultimate are even worse then Templar.
I agree in general with you. Especially when it comes to trials. However both AA and HR game mechanics are stupidly easy. So there are no real risk for melee range in those two. IE the healers have no problem just out heal all the damage if you use nova and vial at the right moments. In fact speed run boss tactics is: stack up in the ultimate and burn the boss ASAP. No fancy dodging or even care about any game mechanics the bosses use... expect for using damage reduction ultimates at the right moments.
Put for PvP... WW works there under special circumstances. If your PvP leader can't see that he sucks at PvP to start with and you should consider your self lucky that he kicked you from the group so you can fine one that knows how to PvP. But it's nothing you can use regularly as it all depends how the enemy reacts to your group so nothing I would recommend to the unexperienced PvPer. And defiantly not something you "need" as you can pull off same thing with just normal weapon abilities. However WW is not really worth the skill points consider how long time it takes to charge the ultimate in PvP. It would be worth it if the ultimate cost was reduced... allot. Or that you could turn to WW at will. Only if you have 25 SP or something like that you can burn just for fun you can pick it up just to test something different.
PS: As I sad before I mainly picked up WW for the upcoming achievements it gives as I had 60 skill points just sitting there and you get almost free skill reset in 1.3. But I don't find WW as bad as some people makes it sound like. The main problem with WW is the same problem all stamina builds with melee weapons have. So they need to fix "stamina builds" first.
That pretty much tells me you have little experience as a werewolf, let me share 2 facts with you. Werewolf is useless, anything you can do as werewolf you can do better while in human form. Werewolf is a pure nerf to ones character, see previous posts here to get a clue. I am a vampire and a werewolf since early access so i know what they are capable of. Werewolf needs revamp, who says otherwise is either a new werewolf or simply doesn't know. This is easy to test. My user name is @jovana-M , and i will give 100.000 gold to anyone who can kill me 1vs1 as a werewolf in a werewolf form or to anyone who can do more dmg then me in a dungeon as a werewolf in its current state. The fact that you will fail at both with your 725 ultimate so hard compared to my 125 ultimate should pretty much mean that werewolf is extremely weak/broken and with that being said i rest my case.
I might have little experience with WW. But I have 16 years of MMO PvP experience. And 5 years of PK MUD experience before that. And I have not played casually under all those years either.
When I say can be used in PvP I did not mean in 1 Vs 1 situations. I was only talking about "zerg" Vs "zerg" situations. And you can only use WW ultimate when you brake the enemy line and they start to retreat. Using it in any other circumstances is not recommended at all.
Exactly, ultimate that costs 725 points can only be used in pvp and only when enemy starts to run away while you are being protected by your zerg..... What more needs to happen so that in your eyes it it starts being "as bad as some ppl say". Werewolf is.... And listen carefully........ IS the single weakest ultimate in whole game. I can use 14-15 soul harvest ultimates instead of 1 werewolf..... And look, that is ultimate fit to be used for any situation while ww only in situations when enemy is running away and not fighting back...... Why do i need a ultimate when i have already won??? I need ultimate to save my life , to tip the balance in my favour when i am about to die or lose. Werewolf only increases the chances that i end up dead and it is only ultimate in game that doesn't help you in any way be it pvp or pve.
Well when reading some forums some people make it sound that you almost die as soon as you transform into werewolf and can max put out 10 DPS. It's not that bad. It's only as bad as a Templar using full heavy armor stamina build with dual wield. It works... but just barley.
PS: If I where to rank WW build from 1-10, 10 being the best build ever. I would give the WW transformation 5 at best. However to be competitive you need at least a build worth 7 or 8 points on that scale.Edited by Sunrock on 29 July 2014 11:390 -
Sonja✭✭✭timidobserver wrote: »timidobserver wrote: »@Sunrock
You are talking in terms of leveling and solo play from what I can tell. My comments were coming from the perspective of group play/end game. I am not that concerned about solo play because, after the nerfs, it is the player that is the problem if they can't do the content.
My primary concern is the lack of use for WW in end game/group content. As it stands, they are of no use in a serious PVP group or a Trials group. This is important because it means that WW's currently have no place in the progression of the game since the endgame consists mostly of group content ATM.
Yes if you want to mini/max you should not go WW at all for end game. If you don't go destro staff light armor spaming AOEs in PvP your a liability to the group as a DD. But WW works in group PvP if the right opportunity show it self. If you can afford to have it as a secondary ultimate. For Trials though there is no way in hell you can spam up the ultimate to transform into a WW between every boss even. Have never tried WW in Trials as I usually play the healer roll in Trials. But there is no way in hell you could take a WW on a speed run even if you manage to get WW between each boss. You can do 450-500 DPS as a WW without putting any attribute point into stamina, only on the armor. So if you're a Templar and want to DPS as WW it's ok as you can't do mush better sustained DPS anyway.
However they did say that they did not want WW or Vampire to be a most have for DPS. So IMO the WW DPS is ok.
PS: IMO WW or Vamp should not be a "most have" for PvP or PvE so...
It isn't about having the most DPS. It is about having some level of viability. There is nothing stopping you from doing what you want, but nobody has a desire to have a WW in their group for any reason ATM. A casual group will allow you in to be nice, but a serious group would group kick you from a trials or a pvp group once they saw you using you werewolf form.
A Templar using their class dps options would be more beneficial because they can obtain max single target dps from range. Having mediocre dps and having to do it from melee range is why a WW using their ultimate are even worse then Templar.
I agree in general with you. Especially when it comes to trials. However both AA and HR game mechanics are stupidly easy. So there are no real risk for melee range in those two. IE the healers have no problem just out heal all the damage if you use nova and vial at the right moments. In fact speed run boss tactics is: stack up in the ultimate and burn the boss ASAP. No fancy dodging or even care about any game mechanics the bosses use... expect for using damage reduction ultimates at the right moments.
Put for PvP... WW works there under special circumstances. If your PvP leader can't see that he sucks at PvP to start with and you should consider your self lucky that he kicked you from the group so you can fine one that knows how to PvP. But it's nothing you can use regularly as it all depends how the enemy reacts to your group so nothing I would recommend to the unexperienced PvPer. And defiantly not something you "need" as you can pull off same thing with just normal weapon abilities. However WW is not really worth the skill points consider how long time it takes to charge the ultimate in PvP. It would be worth it if the ultimate cost was reduced... allot. Or that you could turn to WW at will. Only if you have 25 SP or something like that you can burn just for fun you can pick it up just to test something different.
PS: As I sad before I mainly picked up WW for the upcoming achievements it gives as I had 60 skill points just sitting there and you get almost free skill reset in 1.3. But I don't find WW as bad as some people makes it sound like. The main problem with WW is the same problem all stamina builds with melee weapons have. So they need to fix "stamina builds" first.
That pretty much tells me you have little experience as a werewolf, let me share 2 facts with you. Werewolf is useless, anything you can do as werewolf you can do better while in human form. Werewolf is a pure nerf to ones character, see previous posts here to get a clue. I am a vampire and a werewolf since early access so i know what they are capable of. Werewolf needs revamp, who says otherwise is either a new werewolf or simply doesn't know. This is easy to test. My user name is @jovana-M , and i will give 100.000 gold to anyone who can kill me 1vs1 as a werewolf in a werewolf form or to anyone who can do more dmg then me in a dungeon as a werewolf in its current state. The fact that you will fail at both with your 725 ultimate so hard compared to my 125 ultimate should pretty much mean that werewolf is extremely weak/broken and with that being said i rest my case.
I might have little experience with WW. But I have 16 years of MMO PvP experience. And 5 years of PK MUD experience before that. And I have not played casually under all those years either.
When I say can be used in PvP I did not mean in 1 Vs 1 situations. I was only talking about "zerg" Vs "zerg" situations. And you can only use WW ultimate when you brake the enemy line and they start to retreat. Using it in any other circumstances is not recommended at all.
Exactly, ultimate that costs 725 points can only be used in pvp and only when enemy starts to run away while you are being protected by your zerg..... What more needs to happen so that in your eyes it it starts being "as bad as some ppl say". Werewolf is.... And listen carefully........ IS the single weakest ultimate in whole game. I can use 14-15 soul harvest ultimates instead of 1 werewolf..... And look, that is ultimate fit to be used for any situation while ww only in situations when enemy is running away and not fighting back...... Why do i need a ultimate when i have already won??? I need ultimate to save my life , to tip the balance in my favour when i am about to die or lose. Werewolf only increases the chances that i end up dead and it is only ultimate in game that doesn't help you in any way be it pvp or pve.
Well when reading some forums some people make it sound that you almost die as soon as you transform into werewolf and can max put out 10 DPS. It's not that bad. It's only as bad as a Templar using full heavy armor stamina build with dual wield. It works... but just barley.
As a vr 12 nb ww i get +100 armor and 200 stamina while i loose 10 weapon power. Werewolf is utter junk. I get more damage and utility by taking vr5 food.timidobserver wrote: »timidobserver wrote: »@Sunrock
You are talking in terms of leveling and solo play from what I can tell. My comments were coming from the perspective of group play/end game. I am not that concerned about solo play because, after the nerfs, it is the player that is the problem if they can't do the content.
My primary concern is the lack of use for WW in end game/group content. As it stands, they are of no use in a serious PVP group or a Trials group. This is important because it means that WW's currently have no place in the progression of the game since the endgame consists mostly of group content ATM.
Yes if you want to mini/max you should not go WW at all for end game. If you don't go destro staff light armor spaming AOEs in PvP your a liability to the group as a DD. But WW works in group PvP if the right opportunity show it self. If you can afford to have it as a secondary ultimate. For Trials though there is no way in hell you can spam up the ultimate to transform into a WW between every boss even. Have never tried WW in Trials as I usually play the healer roll in Trials. But there is no way in hell you could take a WW on a speed run even if you manage to get WW between each boss. You can do 450-500 DPS as a WW without putting any attribute point into stamina, only on the armor. So if you're a Templar and want to DPS as WW it's ok as you can't do mush better sustained DPS anyway.
However they did say that they did not want WW or Vampire to be a most have for DPS. So IMO the WW DPS is ok.
PS: IMO WW or Vamp should not be a "most have" for PvP or PvE so...
It isn't about having the most DPS. It is about having some level of viability. There is nothing stopping you from doing what you want, but nobody has a desire to have a WW in their group for any reason ATM. A casual group will allow you in to be nice, but a serious group would group kick you from a trials or a pvp group once they saw you using you werewolf form.
A Templar using their class dps options would be more beneficial because they can obtain max single target dps from range. Having mediocre dps and having to do it from melee range is why a WW using their ultimate are even worse then Templar.
I agree in general with you. Especially when it comes to trials. However both AA and HR game mechanics are stupidly easy. So there are no real risk for melee range in those two. IE the healers have no problem just out heal all the damage if you use nova and vial at the right moments. In fact speed run boss tactics is: stack up in the ultimate and burn the boss ASAP. No fancy dodging or even care about any game mechanics the bosses use... expect for using damage reduction ultimates at the right moments.
Put for PvP... WW works there under special circumstances. If your PvP leader can't see that he sucks at PvP to start with and you should consider your self lucky that he kicked you from the group so you can fine one that knows how to PvP. But it's nothing you can use regularly as it all depends how the enemy reacts to your group so nothing I would recommend to the unexperienced PvPer. And defiantly not something you "need" as you can pull off same thing with just normal weapon abilities. However WW is not really worth the skill points consider how long time it takes to charge the ultimate in PvP. It would be worth it if the ultimate cost was reduced... allot. Or that you could turn to WW at will. Only if you have 25 SP or something like that you can burn just for fun you can pick it up just to test something different.
PS: As I sad before I mainly picked up WW for the upcoming achievements it gives as I had 60 skill points just sitting there and you get almost free skill reset in 1.3. But I don't find WW as bad as some people makes it sound like. The main problem with WW is the same problem all stamina builds with melee weapons have. So they need to fix "stamina builds" first.
That pretty much tells me you have little experience as a werewolf, let me share 2 facts with you. Werewolf is useless, anything you can do as werewolf you can do better while in human form. Werewolf is a pure nerf to ones character, see previous posts here to get a clue. I am a vampire and a werewolf since early access so i know what they are capable of. Werewolf needs revamp, who says otherwise is either a new werewolf or simply doesn't know. This is easy to test. My user name is @jovana-M , and i will give 100.000 gold to anyone who can kill me 1vs1 as a werewolf in a werewolf form or to anyone who can do more dmg then me in a dungeon as a werewolf in its current state. The fact that you will fail at both with your 725 ultimate so hard compared to my 125 ultimate should pretty much mean that werewolf is extremely weak/broken and with that being said i rest my case.
I might have little experience with WW. But I have 16 years of MMO PvP experience. And 5 years of PK MUD experience before that. And I have not played casually under all those years either.
When I say can be used in PvP I did not mean in 1 Vs 1 situations. I was only talking about "zerg" Vs "zerg" situations. And you can only use WW ultimate when you brake the enemy line and they start to retreat. Using it in any other circumstances is not recommended at all.
Exactly, ultimate that costs 725 points can only be used in pvp and only when enemy starts to run away while you are being protected by your zerg..... What more needs to happen so that in your eyes it it starts being "as bad as some ppl say". Werewolf is.... And listen carefully........ IS the single weakest ultimate in whole game. I can use 14-15 soul harvest ultimates instead of 1 werewolf..... And look, that is ultimate fit to be used for any situation while ww only in situations when enemy is running away and not fighting back...... Why do i need a ultimate when i have already won??? I need ultimate to save my life , to tip the balance in my favour when i am about to die or lose. Werewolf only increases the chances that i end up dead and it is only ultimate in game that doesn't help you in any way be it pvp or pve.
Well when reading some forums some people make it sound that you almost die as soon as you transform into werewolf and can max put out 10 DPS. It's not that bad. It's only as bad as a Templar using full heavy armor stamina build with dual wield. It works... but just barley.
As a vr 12 nb ww i get +100 armor and 200 stamina while i loose 10 weapon power. Werewolf is utter junk. I get more damage and utility by taking vr5 food. I have 1913 stamina as human, as a ww it gets increased by 200 points..... I cant break cc as ww in game full of cc, i loose all armor/ability synergies etc etc for what...... Werewolf is useless, no excuse for that, as ppl said on page 4. Even if beast form would be free you would still be better of without it, its only a fluff that increases the chances of your death .Edited by Sonja on 29 July 2014 11:461 -
Sonja✭✭✭
Ppl who claim ww is "ok" with nothing to back that claim up are clueless, anyone who says werewolf is good should post a werewolf video of trials and pvp so we can have some insight into "werewolf working and awesomness". To the person abowe , yes werewolf can die in few seconds as being seen in this video. Werewolf only works when all enemies ignore you, if you get attacked you are dead...1 -
Xnemesis✭✭✭✭If they just made it so the passives would be active in humanoid form the werewolf would be 100% better than it is right now. You honestly just lose to much while transformed0 -
Sunrock✭✭✭
Well showing a video of some who sucks at PvP using a WW in a way that would get him killed no matter what does not prove anything really. Sure he died faster in WW transformation because of all the bow users and WW taking 50% more damage from poison not to mention silver bolts. But he was already dead anyway. If he did the same thing in human form using dual wield or two handed in the same situation he would have met the same fate. He might have survived for 1-2 sec more only.0 -
Mori✭that is not the point im trying to make...if u go beast form, no matter when. all 1 enemy player has to do is to turn around and cc you. and you are dead......
only way to maybe survive it is if you have a big zerg behind you so they just run instead of stop running and start laughing at you.0 -
Cyrdemaceb17_ESO✭✭✭Being transformed in pvp means an easy kill for the enemy. Unless they have other things to do, like running away.0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrQuNiwT_Ww
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3I_19XQzEbQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKem8B-3iuI