Bolt Escape is Useless and Sorc Survivability

Venithar

SuperJChat wrote: »

How many Sorcs do you think use BE in Vet Dungeons? Trials? Basically, BE is not that useful of a skill, and very few "successful builds" even consider BE.

PvP /= PvE, stop trying to use PvE examples for why BE is bad. Also, if I wanted to AoE everything down, I wouldn't even need to be a mage, I could just go be any class in the game and get a destro staff and light armor.

xDonMega

reality check 102 BE didn't actually kill anyone.

Kypho

NordJitsu wrote: »

Bolt Escape is now useless. You've completely broken the ability.

So congratulations on listening to a bunch of whiney people on the internet and destroying a class defining ability.

There's ways you could kinda fix this. You could immediately remove the 50% increase in cost on subsequent casts. You could remove the 4 sec magicka regen debuff. Keeping both active is just ridiculous and just ensures no intelligent player will ever use this ability.

Really what you should do is remove both the 4 sec magicka regen debuff and the 4 sec subsequent cast penalty. The ability was perfectly balanced already. The utility you got was commensurate with the cost of the skill and there were plenty of ways to get the same thing from other sources. There were plenty of counters to the ability as well. Not to mention you've promised that this game would have no cool downs and this ability now has TWO cool downs.

But I'm learning that you guys don't really care about balance, truth, ect. You don't know how to differentiate the good feedback from the bad. The only way to get things done is to have a lot of ignorant/misinformed people complain really loudly on the internet. God forbid you listened to people who Beta tested your game, who spent hours doing actually testing (not just playing and whining.)

You seem to have kinda sorta thought about it. You changed "Dark Deal" so that you could move while channeling it. This seems like an attempt to make up for the survivability hit that you gave to the sorcs. Problem is you move really slowly while channeling Dark Deal, so you might as well be stationary. You also removed the armor and spell resistance buff and kept it interruptable, so you're still a sitting duck.

I'd recommend a mix of the following changes:

-Increase movement speed while channeling Dark Deal
-Make Dark Deal uninterruptable
-Give the caster increased armor and spell resistance while channeling Dark Exchange (both morphs)

But hey, unless I get 50 people to complain about it on Reddit and the general forums (preferably without them making a single intelligent point about why the changes would be good) then you probably won't listen.

Sorcerer can be the best DPS (+cc), now you want to just be able to escape or tank like a DK? WTH. Crystal fragment proc chance is way to overpowered, so the bolt escape is not really nerfed at all. no need to whine about bolt escape.

demonlkojipub19_ESO

Maybe try wearing medium or heavy armor...

vokage89

TheWired wrote: »

Right now, bolt escape does exactly what it's supposed to do.
It gives you a chance to escape instead of giving you the ability to bolt through Cyrodiil from West to East without stopping. Also, you now have a reason to purchase a horse (great opportunity!)

The hammer might be a bit hard for you guys, but it was long overdue.
So stop QQing and take it like a man. And that's coming from a guy playing NB.

LMFAO.. you NOW have a reason to buy a horse.... imho tho .. i can see why all you mages are upset.. but hahahaha ! everyone knows it should be nerfed even you..and what they did was actualy kinda smart.. they didnt give it a "CD" you can still use it if you want .. BUT its gonna cost yah ..hahahaha better think twice who you try and jump now huh?

ARtChi

Sorcerers bolt escape was just totally unbalanced in PvP.
Nerf was justified of course and the skill is still pretty good. I don't understand this QQing... Go reroll templar if you can't play anymore your sorc...

Drachdhar

Artemis wrote: »

dodge from what? of course I was moving and trying to do something.
Don't you understand, that he can go behind my back immediately no matter what I did? I can't dodge behind him. He will see me no matter what I do and he will teleport. You can't do anything with this.
And that damage was ridiculous.

How is it different? You can be immune to CC after you break it once. You can use that mages guild skill to see invisible dudes. You can't do anything to stop sorcs.

Chain using Dark Talons will not be affected by CC immunity since Dark Talons for some reason dont count as CC by game mechanics.
You can generally not CC break knockback and stagger effects like those from that jabbing light *** Templars are so fond of spamming, generally due to the lag inherent in using CC break or the stagger not lasting long enough. There is one thing that works, and it works for BE sorcs as well - BLOCK.
Sure you can use Magelight so see a stealthed dude, problem here is those stealth dudes are attacking from 30m+ away in which case Magelight does exactly nothing, and the insta-killing people are attacking from that range.

And there are plenty of ways to deal with BE spam... Gap closers, use a frikkin' bow, block etc.

indigoblades

if Vamp, DK and Sorc to powerful i wish they buff nightblades, templars n Werewolfs instead of nerf stuff. ... im tired of ZOS quick-massive nerfs and hardly anything buffed. If Zos had buffed NightBlades, Templars & Werewolfs for balance instead of debuffing Vamps/DK/Sorc my thoughts are 66% would be happy vs 66% pissed off. The vamp ult buff was ok ... since that was game breaking ... the rest, magika 20 to 7% reduction and mist form nerfs where not. I dont know all DK details but the bolt escape was WAY over nerfed too since sorcerers so squishy.

ArchLegend

First of all, I do not play pvp. However I find bolt escape very use fighting some vet dungeon bosses that requires player to move around quickly. The skill is no doubt unfair in pvp, but it is as it said an ESCAPE skill allowing player to escape from various situation. What actually needed is not to nerf the skill itself but to allow certain skills from other classes to be able to make bolt escape user not able to escape easily, like root or skill disabling. If ZOS really needs to change bolt escape, it is strongly recommend to increase the teleport range AND putting a cool down time to use the skill so it cannot be used again immediately.

Blinks

I saw this thread title and genuinely laugh out loud to my self....


Are you being serious...?

Axer

Devlinne wrote: »

Do you play pvp alot bro? If u do. I can understand why u are fighting so vehemently for nothing to change.

I'm sure u feel it's fun to bolt into a group, stun a few, blast and aoe, or drop an ultimate, and BOLT OUT no probs. Be that guy to escape unscathed when a keep falls, like 20 ppl looking at you...chasing you, while you're grinning or probably laughing at them while u just DISAPPEAR into the sunset?
But unfortunately, like many things in life. the people on the recieving end....they don't find it that fun.

Do i need to link u videos? Theres a few RIGHT NOW on general discussion. U see pal.....Words is words....but when u have VIDEO PROOF too.....Thats all she wrote.
I myself have seen with my own eyes, a sorc come into cheydinal(vr12) wipe out 5 random players(all vr++ 1 was a vr12 nb) just by teleing in, nuke, tele out out out out, recover, tele in again rinse and repeat.

So OK u would say those 5 ppl are probably scrubs who should learn to play their class better. Fine.

Then theres "legends" like Sabre Ali. SOLO 5 ppl no sweat. Bolts INTO A CURRENTLY SIEGE IN PROGRESS KEEP SOLO, kills a few ppl, bolts out. You know HOW MANY PPL are on a flag during siege? So ok ALL 20+ of them are scrubs and should learn to play the game better?

So where does the number end bro? 1thousand scrubs who dunno how to play their class??? 5 thousand? 1 million?

Sorry. Whether you like it or not. Enough ppl have been on the recieving end of this BS skill for far too long. Videos show it, ppl speak it. Hell bro, touch your heart...YOU KNOW IT too.

Lets just let the devs balance the game so EVERYONE can enjoy it k? Not just 2 classes. EVERYONE.

This.

Fought sabre ali last night, so post nerf, 5v1 exactly like you said.

Was obnoxious, even after the nerf. He still survived an incredible amount of time for the assault we had on him.

And we aren't your average scrubs he wipes out. The group included another top 100 wabbajack player, and all of them in my guild - all in maxxed out legendary gear, aether/yokeda/crafted/etc. Not all the most experienced pvp'ers, but all extremely fast and skilled players.

And all he had to do to survive it make sure he hits the same key every 4 seconds, while moving around some obstacles to break our line of sight.

It's just an obnoxiously annoying ability in pvp. We did kill Sabre, but it took a stupid amount of time compared to any one other player of any other class.

If anything, bolt escape is still OP in pvp.

At the very most you should be able to cast 3 in a 16 second window, getting off 4+ means your nearly invulnerable if your playing a strong, high magicka/regen build.

Mojomonkeyman

God, you guys celebrating the BE nerf must be terrible players... You know what? You would still complain even with a 10 sec cooldown on BE. Because that`s what scrubs do: getting killed, complain, demand nerf, celebrate nerf, getting killed again, complain again, and so on...

Seriously, anyone who feels the need to advertize his guild as "highly skilled" in the signature should stay the hell out of pvp anyways.

Regards,

highly skilled Mojo!

NordJitsu

@Axer‌

If he 5v1'd you guys its because he's better than you. Learn to play instead of moaning and crying on the forums for the devs to solve your problems for you.

The game is dying because the developers lack the back bone to stand up to people like you. I'd never touch Wildstar (can't get past the cartoony graphics) but the dev team at least has some back bone. I saw someone ask about an "OP ability" in a Q&A session and the developer literally said "L2P."

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Flaming]

Axer

NordJitsu wrote: »

@Axer‌

If he 5v1'd you guys its because he's better than you. Learn to play instead of moaning and crying on the forums for the devs to solve your problems for you.

Like I said, we killed him. We play just fine. He's a great player in control of an insanely annoying ability, but we still prevailed just fine.

The issue is it's an obnoxiously annoying ability in pvp. Every sorcerer i've asked ingame agrees.

If all 4 classes had a similar ability, i'd be all for it. They do not , that is the major issue here. PvP is not only for sorcerers to enjoy.

They could simply change it for pvp only, and have it the same in pve.

Also, your post is reported for code of conduct.

Birfreben_Kinghelred

NordJitsu wrote: »

@Axer‌

If he 5v1'd you guys its because he's better than you. Learn to play instead of moaning and crying on the forums for the devs to solve your problems for you.

The game is dying because the developers lack the back bone to stand up to people like you. I'd never touch Wildstar (can't get past the cartoony graphics) but the dev team at least has some back bone. I saw someone ask about an "OP ability" in a Q&A session and the developer literally said "L2P."

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Flaming]

Do you know what any of the bolded phrases mean? Or are you just throwing out buzz words? I'd really like to know what your definition of better is. Is better slotting
an ability and clicking it 8 times in a row? How does one *** that up? How does one possibly play that incorrectly? My definition of better is exercising good judgement in terms of positioning, resources, aim, group numbers, group composition, focusing targets, timing, etc. You could argue that you need to aim bolt escape post nerf, but pre nerf? Hit a tree, oh well I still got 8 more BE's and 2 more seconds of cc immunity, just keep on bolting on.

Learn to play is not synonymous with use a resto staff and play sorc. When two skills make you and anyone else playing that class a god compared to an entire groups of other players, we call that OP. Remember when Vamp DKs were undeniably over powered because of 1 skills synergy with ulti reductions? Ya, they got nerfed. I say undeniably because I assume you have half a brain and agree Vamp DKs were overpowered and deserved the nerf. We'll say its the right half of your brain given you have the ability to express your anger, but you're unable to listen to reason and understand why the nerf to bolt escape had to happen.

The game is not dying, the majority of its player base will be console players. If anything this game will more than double its player base with the console release. Only 14% of skyrim's sales were on pc. I myself would rather wait and buy a console after release prices drop than spend a couple grand on a pc just to have epic 1000+ player rvrvr battles. 1000+ players on at least 3 different campaigns at peak hours, daily. In arguably the worst experience/drop rate activity. And you think the game is dying? What a *** joke...

If the Dev's didn't have a back bone we'd have a fatigue bar based off stamina for blocking/dodging/rolling, an endurance bar based off health for blocking/dodging/rolling. We'd have an auction house, and we'd have 10 ability slots, and we'd have a toggle in the character screen to use magicka for blocking/dodging/rolling. More inventory, Easier to level professions, a passive to help sorc regen (real funny that one.) Toggle-able werewolf form, heavy armour temps would have comparable dps to the dps armours(because ma ret pally). Oh and they'd also probably revert this well warranted nerf to appease you and your idiotic whining. The list of broken *** I've seen requested on this forum is exponentially longer than the list of broken *** currently in the game. You should probably let the game designers do the game designing.

You people that take you're MMORPG's this seriously are really funny. The MMO genre is the bottom of the barrel in terms of competitive gaming and e-sports. It doesn't even have e-sports. Just look at the name of the genre, ROLE PLAYING is in it. Yet most that play them go so *** hard and invests so much trying to be "good". You *** your pants every time the devs change the way your character plays. Because you know at the end of the day that's all your victory and "good" play was, just your character being broken. Your inability to acknowledge this is hilarious.

Mystborn

NordJitsu wrote: »

The game is dying because the developers lack the back bone to stand up to people like you. I'd never touch Wildstar (can't get past the cartoony graphics) but the dev team at least has some back bone. I saw someone ask about an "OP ability" in a Q&A session and the developer literally said "L2P."

Is that seriously the kind of behaviour we should be applauding from devs?

Is that what's wrong with the ESO devs and their bad PR? When people complain about something maybe Jess should just respond with "L2P"?

NordJitsu

@Axer‌

"If all classes had a similar ability" then the game would be boring and lack diversity. I suppose it's somewhat noble for you to at least admit that your problem with the ability has no actual basis other than that you're jealous you don't get to play with it. Most people try to hide between absurd fallacies that they attempt to pass off as real reasons.

@Mystborn‌

They don't have to tell them to l2p. But I personally found I refreshing and hilarious. Ignoring them and consolidating their nonsense into a single thread also would have worked for me.

Niffo

NordJitsu wrote: »

The game is dying because the developers lack the back bone to stand up to people like you. I'd never touch Wildstar (can't get past the cartoony graphics) but the dev team at least has some back bone. I saw someone ask about an "OP ability" in a Q&A session and the developer literally said "L2P."

The game is dying for a number of reasons, none of those are what you think they are. The developers taking their time addressing major issues is one of the problems, like Bolt Escape, Dragonknights, Vampires, low population campaigns, atrocious testing practices, bad PR, lazy end game design. Lots of things are killing the game, letting Sorcerers Bolt Escape into infinity is not one of them. Keep up the great work Nord, you're a great laugh.

Also, would you have wanted the devs to tell you to learn to play when you cried about Dragonknights? What a schmuck.

NordJitsu

@Niffo‌

I'd love for you to show me a post where I "cried about Dragon Knights."

I gave well reasoned feedback about a specific ability that addressed a specific problem and offered a specific solution. If you compare the type of post I made about Dark Talons to the type of post made by people complaining about Bolt Escape, I think you'll see a clear difference.

Not one person ever laid out an argument as to specifically what was wrong with it. All there ZOS had to go off of was a bunch of whining about how a Sorcerer escaped from a gank. Unfortunately ZOS seems to be unable to distinguish quality from quantity in feedback. Because a lot of people say something does not make it so.

Glad to be entertaining you though. I don't much care what you think about me though because your posts indicate that you're not someone with an opinion worth respecting.

Niffo

NordJitsu wrote: »

I gave well reasoned feedback about a specific ability that addressed a specific problem and offered a specific solution. If you compare the type of post I made about Dark Talons to the type of post made by people complaining about Bolt Escape, I think you'll see a clear difference.

Not one person ever laid out an argument as to specifically what was wrong with it. All there ZOS had to go off of was a bunch of whining about how a Sorcerer escaped from a gank. Unfortunately ZOS seems to be unable to distinguish quality from quantity in feedback. Because a lot of people say something does not make it so.

Plenty of people laid out arguments as to what was wrong with Bolt Escape, you just ignored them. Just because you didn't like them doesn't invalidate them, and people gave solutions along with their arguments. You're delusional, and you're being dishonest again.

NordJitsu wrote: »

Glad to be entertaining you though. I don't much care what you think about me though because your posts indicate that you're not someone with an opinion worth respecting.

Right back 'atcha.

Cody

It will not kill you to get a horse or RUN like the rest of us, nor will it kill you to actually FIGHT players.(a.k.a. PVP). 1 skill change should not affect you this much. You are like the shield bash spammers. "I cant play because of 1 skill change" its pathetic. if you relied on one skill this much, your build was not very good to begin with.
and its not a cooldown, its a COST INCREASE. those are 2 different thing's.
I suppose the ultimates have cooldowns because you can only use them once before you have to build up more points? see how your logic holds?

NordJitsu

@NookyZooky‌

At no point in this or any other post have I ever claimed that the loss of this ability damaged my build or ability to play.

Reading comprehension is important here if you want to participate in the conversation.

You'll also notice that I am upset specifically because this change has negatively affected the use of this skill primarily for in combat use, while failing to address the "problem" that most people complained about.

Cody

insulting my intelligence does not make you look cool, it makes you look, again, pathetic. I don't need your criticism about my reading comprehension. now, "combat use"? its an escape ability, its meant to ESCAPE, not repeated combat use. ppl were complaining that it was spammed WAY to much, and it was, this new change stops you from using it so much, which, in turn, stops BE spamming, which is what ppl wanted.

Cody

now im going to stop here before i get in a huge flame war with you, im not posting any thing else, as someone who has to mention my reading comprehension, over something in a video game, is not worth my time. good night amigo.

NordJitsu

@NookyZooky‌

Right because its not like the ability also has a CC and a morph that does damage right?

And again, it can still be used to escape. Little has changed there. Now it just sucks in a fight.

I've suggested alternative changes that would have actually solved the problem of people spamming it to escape.

Niffo

NordJitsu wrote: »

@NookyZooky‌

Right because its not like the ability also has a CC and a morph that does damage right?

And again, it can still be used to escape. Little has changed there. Now it just sucks in a fight.

I've suggested alternative changes that would have actually solved the problem of people spamming it to escape.

So, it can still be used to escape but it's useless? It functions the same as it did pre-nerf if you aren't spamming it, you'll have to adapt and train yourself to not just mash the button.

OkieDokie

Niffo wrote: »

So, it can still be used to escape but it's useless? It functions the same as it did pre-nerf if you aren't spamming it, you'll have to adapt and train yourself to not just mash the button.

That's why this discussion is pointless. The skill can still be used for its purpose, just can't be abused anymore. Problem solved.

The rest is just...

Snit

As a PvP sorc, I was in favor of the Bolt Escape nerf. But it's more severe than I expected. It's now just "Bolt Reposition."

Pre-nerf, I was able to escape fights about 75% of the time. Good players could stop BE if they had the right skills on their bars and some luck was with them. Now, I am able to escape about 5% of the time. You simply can't gain enough ground to get away from anyone, even with a pot. All you are doing is draining your magicka pool, so you'll be helpless when they catch you.

It's gone from must-have to marginally useful. There should be some middle ground between the current state and the previous.

Leaok

The ability should just be removed and replaced with an ability that is actually useful and can be used without such a harsh penalty.

If they want to keep it as is, they need to at least increase the distance it travels to the same distance of a charge. Having it at 10m while gap closers are 22m and ranged attacks are 28m+ makes the ability not cost effective at all to try and make space.

If it is just replaced with an ability that is useful it will placate the masses that are against BE and give the sorcs an ability which can be used.

Thor

It's hard to tell if BE is useless or overpowered if we have sorcs with infinite mana running around. Some are still able circle around you multiple times and then warp out of clipping range.