Bolt Escape is Useless and Sorc Survivability

Niffo

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

You`re really preaching the same prayer over and over hoping for enough noobs to believe what you say, because you try to make it sounds as if it was facts. Sadly, on mmo forums there will always be enough bad players around to give you "awesomes" and "agrees", because you give them nice little excuses for their issues ingame.

It`s kinda hart to take someone seriously who gives so much false information with such a serious face like you. You are wrong. You are a whiner. A GW2 roaming necromancer who had troubles versus thiefs cannot be taken serious, sorry. TeamQ top 50 EU anytime here, with both thief and necro.

Mobility is never an issue, when said mobility cannot kill you! I told you before, you have serious L2P issues, doesn`t matter how many RvR games you play/played before. Most people will just stay mediocre, even if they play thousands of hours.

But because of their huge playtime they think they must be good somehow, so they try to blame the game and make up philosophies like your "mobility rant" to cover up their inability to overcome plateaus skillwise.

Regards

Mobility is an issue when it is only available to one class. Your credentials are irrelevant if you think it was balanced to have one class that can escape at will while the others get to die.

Niffo

ezareth_ESO wrote: »

You can't run faster than a max speed horse. I get chased down by players who know what they're doing all the time. People who say they never use a horse as a sorc are lying or just bad. How absurd. The only time I use Bolt Escape instead of a horse is when I'm stuck in combat (My Horse has been max speed for 2 weeks now). Oddly bolt escape seems to prolong the stuck in combat bug. If you're running anywhere in Cyrodiil you should be rotating Retreating Manuevers into your run rotation and you'll catch ANY sorc or outrun any of them on your team.

So you're another Sorcerer that just posts nonsense. You think it's fine that you needed to be mounted and using Retreating Maneuvers to have the chance at catching someone on foot, what a joke.

Why is it that other players think a class ability to escape combat (provided you keep 800-1000 mana always in reserve is so broken? Sorcs die A LOT. We're the squishiest class, so how does it make sense that the only ability we have to prevent our death by fleeing is effectively taken from us? Every class has one or two class-defining abilities. Right now we have negate magic and Bolt Escape. That's it. The rest of our abilities are very weak.

You're squishy because you built yourself to be that way, Sorcerers are not innately weaker than the other classes. You took no defense other than Bolt Escape while other classes had to use heavier armour and multiple skills to be survivable, and now you're complaining that you have to do the same thing.

And whoever thinks Templar are weak in PVP is crazy. I've faced some Templar who can heal a group of 15 people in PVP and make it impossible for me to kill anyone, not to mention keeping eclipse on me if they want to make all of my damage abilities worthless. I don't think they should nerf Eclipse even though it completely takes me out of the fight and I have no counter to it other than to use what little stamina I have to break out of it. That's because it is something unique to Templar that makes them a powerful class.

You're letting a single Templar heal a group of 15 people and that somehow makes Bolt Escape balanced? You get immunity to Eclipse without having to slot anything extra on your bars or use any different gear and you're complaining about that? You have to use a resource you aren't otherwise using to get out of Eclipse and become immune to it for 7 seconds, how terrible.

Posts by Sorcerers defending their broken abilities and their complete refusal to adapt their characters are hilarious. These posts are as good as the Dragonknights crying about being brought down to mortal status.

Kiljaz

They'll start buffing abilities 6 months from now when every ability has been nerfed to the ground due to people crying about what they don't understand. and abilities start healing your enemy making everyone immortal.

There are two reasons people complain about BE.

1. They don't understand their class and therefore cannot counter it. It has many counters.

2. (The more to the point reason) The counters that are designed to counter BE do not work due to block being broken. If you couldn't block things behind you, and block while casting instants, BE would be easily countered...

So ZoS, if you understand your game, you now know what needs to be done to balance a lot of skills...

Make block a frontal cone, and fix animation canceling.

Xsorus

lol, Oh so its block that's broken, not Bolt Escape

Luvsfuzzybunnies

ezareth_ESO wrote: »

I'm not as vehement as @NordJitsu‌ but at the end of the day I'm already enjoying my Sorc less and less in PVP and this nerf coupled with the host of other kneejerk PVP "balance" changes are making the PVP in this game very stale. Organized PVP is slowly turning into a game of everyone lump into balls, move as a group, AOE heal, and zerg down opposition and that is BORING AS HELL.

What faction do you play? AD has always used the tactic of large group AOE spam(some lovingly refer to it as AOE zerging). As for other factions they never have the man power to combat a call to arms from AD but now that there are equal numbers on one of the pvp campaigns AD doesn't dominate it quite so handily.

Luvsfuzzybunnies

stuu wrote: »

The nerf is overkill in my opinion. Every class has a stand out ability that sets it apart from the rest.

I don't think its fair a Templar has all those heals when the others don't!! NERF?
I don't think its fair a nightblade can go hidden and sneak away form a fight of jump on me to start one... NERF?
I don't think its fair a DK has reflect my spells on me, or chains to pull me too them. NERF?

No. Every class has its own attraction and every class attraction has several counters if you actually know how to play.

If you find yourself moaning about bolt escape you should find a new game and go play it.

If you find yourself saying bolt escape had counters the way it was you probably play a sorc. They didn't take your ability away even they just increased the mana cost on subsequent casts within 4 seconds. If you need to spam this ability then you don't know how to play a sorc. Once again I say the sorcs day has come to show us they know how to play their class. As they have so lovingly told the other classes to do in the past. I look forward to examining your skills now that your ability has slightly decreased in power level.

rophez_ESO

Haha. Oh, Nordj, Nordj, Nordj, after your crusading to get DKs nerfed, your tears over bolt escape are rather delicious.

Prokonto

NordJitsu wrote: »

....The ability was perfectly balanced already.

...

i think thats say everythink about op...

Erock25

deathpandax_ESO wrote: »

Even with the Nerf, it's still by far the best PvP ability in the game. You have no idea what it's like to fight someone when they will always get away 100% of the time. I don't even engage Sorcs in a 1v1 because there is no point.

Also you can still Bolt 7-8 times before you run out of mana, and 10 if you pot. Anything more then 4 Bolt Escapes away and you are pretty much past the point of no return for a non-Sorc to ever catch up.

Can only bolt twice now with a stamina focused build. We can't just assume all sorc are light armor/staff.

HalloweenWeed

I've seen players use this spell just running around in PvE solo, chaining many casts together to move large distances quickly. I wondered at the time what it was, now I know. Yes, I agree with the folks that say they made a very good change to it, as this was a bit unfair to all who don't have it IMHO. FYI.

dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO

NordJitsu wrote: »

@Devlinne‌

I'm not your bro and literally nothing you just said was related in any way to balance. You gave a bunch of random anecdotes that may or not be true and made zero arguments to connect those anecdotes to the point you were trying to make.

The fact that ZOS is listening to people like you is what has made me lose faith in this game.

disagree. may be true? no arguements? what. ANYONE who has played pvp has come across this problem. mages with a good mana sink jump in nuke and jump away. people follow but nobody can catch them. it is still a good ability after nerf, especially for mage tanks who taunt and jump, by the time they catch up jump again with no penalty. I have seen plenty of people use the skill in other ways then spam escape which would not hit the penalty. I completely agree with this change; I also would be fine with keeping bolt escape as is, as long as ANYONE can MOUNT ANYTIME.

NordJitsu

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

For someone who says they don't use Bolt Escape anymore, Nord really goes out of his way to defend it *grin*

@xsorusb14_ESO‌

Don't care what you think really. I spent so much time as a tester for this game giving feedback on all the classes and skill lines that I can't really get out of that mindset. I'm not defending the skill because I need it for my build, I just want the game to be well balanced but also fun for multiple play styles. But again, really I don't much care if you believe me.

rophez_ESO wrote: »

Haha. Oh, Nordj, Nordj, Nordj, after your crusading to get DKs nerfed, your tears over bolt escape are rather delicious.

@rophez_ESO‌

Who are you and why should I care?

SuperJChat wrote: »

NordJitsu wrote: »

This ability now has TWO cool downs in a "no cool down" game. You "nerfed it into Oblivion," exactly what Firor said you wouldn't be doing.

You sir, are indeed ignorant of what a Cooldown is. According to your logic, a HoT is a cooldown, a DoT is a cooldown, any ability that buffs or debuffs for X seconds is a Cooldown.

gtfo. a "cooldown" means you can't cast the ability again within X seconds, at all. Not "casting again within X seconds has consequences".

If you are going to make an argument for something at least understand what you are arguing about before you cry wolf and whine like everyone you are complaining about

@SuperJChat‌

Its kinda hilarious that you want to talk to me about understanding before complaining when you don't seem to understand that this is a resource based game.

Simple fact: when you have no resources, you can't cast your skills. Placing a resource regen debuff or an increased cost on subsequent casts means that skill is going to make you run out of resources faster simply because you cast it. Its a virtual cool down.

Horse **** still smells like **** even if you plop some ice cream down next to and tell me its a brownie. And I'm about as interested in eating that as I am in reading your semantic bull-****.

You're a scourge on MMOs and video games in general. People like you destroy these games. Really, you do. And when this game crashes and burns, which I'm now pretty certain it will, its folks like you that will be to blame as much as ZOS is to blame for listening to your idiocy.

Drachdhar

Personally... I think the no magicka regen thing for 4 secs "may" be redundant. The cost increase makes perfect sense to me on the other hand... Seen alot of sorcs just zoom about endlessly, sadly not gotten to use the skill yet myself though since my sorc is not high enough and I find it hard to find the energy to lvl my third char to veteran in a game where I find the endgame to be plain annoying or simply boring.
PvP zerging or pain in the arse veteran content... Probably the latter since the xp gain in pvp is just not comparable.

xDonMega

That cost increase is retart if it isn't going to account for magika reduction gear or passives like ever other skill in the game does.

PikkonMG

Congratulations on being used to a OP ability, lost your I WIN BUTTON have fun!

Luvsfuzzybunnies

NordJitsu wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

For someone who says they don't use Bolt Escape anymore, Nord really goes out of his way to defend it *grin*

@xsorusb14_ESO‌

Don't care what you think really. I spent so much time as a tester for this game giving feedback on all the classes and skill lines that I can't really get out of that mindset. I'm not defending the skill because I need it for my build, I just want the game to be well balanced but also fun for multiple play styles. But again, really I don't much care if you believe me.

rophez_ESO wrote: »

Haha. Oh, Nordj, Nordj, Nordj, after your crusading to get DKs nerfed, your tears over bolt escape are rather delicious.

@rophez_ESO‌

Who are you and why should I care?

SuperJChat wrote: »

NordJitsu wrote: »

This ability now has TWO cool downs in a "no cool down" game. You "nerfed it into Oblivion," exactly what Firor said you wouldn't be doing.

You sir, are indeed ignorant of what a Cooldown is. According to your logic, a HoT is a cooldown, a DoT is a cooldown, any ability that buffs or debuffs for X seconds is a Cooldown.

gtfo. a "cooldown" means you can't cast the ability again within X seconds, at all. Not "casting again within X seconds has consequences".

If you are going to make an argument for something at least understand what you are arguing about before you cry wolf and whine like everyone you are complaining about

@SuperJChat‌

Its kinda hilarious that you want to talk to me about understanding before complaining when you don't seem to understand that this is a resource based game.

Simple fact: when you have no resources, you can't cast your skills. Placing a resource regen debuff or an increased cost on subsequent casts means that skill is going to make you run out of resources faster simply because you cast it. Its a virtual cool down.

Horse **** still smells like **** even if you plop some ice cream down next to and tell me its a brownie. And I'm about as interested in eating that as I am in reading your semantic bull-****.

You're a scourge on MMOs and video games in general. People like you destroy these games. Really, you do. And when this game crashes and burns, which I'm now pretty certain it will, its folks like you that will be to blame as much as ZOS is to blame for listening to your idiocy.

So your testing of this game along with all the other trusted testers got us some of the many enjoyable mechanics we came to love and all the people stuck around because of. Let me refresh your memory of those oh so fun things since release. Spammable ults, shield bash, capless aoe damaging abilities while healing aoes had caps, bat swarm immortality, caltrops, numerous other weapon ability exploits that allowed the PTS groups to run trials in under 9 minutes. Yeah I'd say you guys did a bang up job testing for Zenimax. So much so that had it been a game I was helping produce I would think about giving you a lifetime IP ban for such great help. On top of that your continued insulting of the parent company here calling them stupid and what not. I see why they love you and respect your opinion so highly.

Luvsfuzzybunnies

dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO wrote: »

NordJitsu wrote: »

@Devlinne‌

I'm not your bro and literally nothing you just said was related in any way to balance. You gave a bunch of random anecdotes that may or not be true and made zero arguments to connect those anecdotes to the point you were trying to make.

The fact that ZOS is listening to people like you is what has made me lose faith in this game.

disagree. may be true? no arguements? what. ANYONE who has played pvp has come across this problem. mages with a good mana sink jump in nuke and jump away. people follow but nobody can catch them. it is still a good ability after nerf, especially for mage tanks who taunt and jump, by the time they catch up jump again with no penalty. I have seen plenty of people use the skill in other ways then spam escape which would not hit the penalty. I completely agree with this change; I also would be fine with keeping bolt escape as is, as long as ANYONE can MOUNT ANYTIME.

Hey now there's an idea. It is hard to argue with this guy cause he cannot see the other side of any argument. So be careful Dylan he will berate you and call you an idiot or completely disregard any facts you lay before him and then comeback saying here's my point you just disproved but I'm gonna make it again and accuse you of being the one who did not read my comment. He may be the largest forum troll here unintentionally.

Luvsfuzzybunnies

PikkonMG wrote: »

Congratulations on being used to a OP ability, lost your I WIN BUTTON have fun!

I support this comment.

Luvsfuzzybunnies

Oh btw @norjitsu one more thing if running out of resources is a cooldown sign me up to never run out of resources as well. All my abilities have virtual cooldowns zenimax remove them at once or I will berate you for not adhering to your original plan and ever thinking that some things may have to have exceptions. Virtual cooldown you're funny. You can still spam that one ability more times than just about any other class ability in the game. Not to mention you have a stamina bar that you can use to turn into extra mana and health while running still use it while your 4 seconds are ticking. Since the only thing you really have to use stamina on is immovable anyhow. Your argument about virtual cooldown holds about as much water as a colander.

smercgames_ESO

Virtual Cooldown made me giggle. So using your skills too much = cooldown? So odd. Anyways I put up a thread before but maybe I'll ask here for all you BE defenders. How do you counter BE? People keep claiming there is a counter but besides a sorc "running into their virtual cooldowns" there is no counter. You can't charge/teleport strike faster than it. You can't CC them cause they block or they are immune to CC due to immunities. Roots/snares do nothing because it doesn't effect it. So when a skill is spammable with no counter it is frustrating to everyone who doesn't have it. Defend it all you want and claim all non-sorcs are ruining the game when in reality when the majority of the player base is frustrated with a skill or activity there is usually a legit reason why.

Syndy

This Virtual Cooldown idea actually makes sense to me now.

I was wondering why I couldn't press my heal button anymore after a few heals, now I know, it's a "Virtual Cooldown". It has nothing to do with me spamming the ability and running out of resources because of bad play/positioning. It's because of a Virtual Cooldown.

NordJitsu

@f0rgiv3n27b14_ESO‌

Your heal doesn't have anything built into the skill that prevents you from using it more times. It has a set cost that never changes and never punishes you for use beyond that cost.

Bolt Escape does not have a set cost. Its not a calculation where I can use the skill X number of times based on my magicka pool being X.

The number of times I can cast it is dependent on the frequency with which I cast it over a set amount of time. That isn't true for other skills in the game.

BE halves my magicka regen for 4 seconds after casting, which punishes me for casting it in the first place even if I only cast it once (since I now have less magicka for all skills.) If I cast it an additional time with in 4 secs, then the cost goes up 78% (not 50% since the second cast ignores all Spell Cost Reduction.)

Again, that means I'm being punished because of the frequency of casting over a timed duration rather than simply spending my magicka pool as I do with other skills in the game.

Can you really not see the difference?

Syndy

Oh no, I see, and KNOW the difference between a cooldown (CD) and PENALTY ("Virtual CD?")

You get an increased cost for pressing the same skill in quick succession. That is not a CD or a "virtual CD", that is a penalty.

A CD is how potions are implemented in this game, you drink one, then have to wait X seconds to drink another (depending on gear, some passives as well)...

In all honesty this "nerf" didn't really hurt sorcs that much, if you try to gank one they will still have enough magicka to spam BE away into the sunset. All this change did is now make them fight if they decide to attack someone instead of run now.

If you need to press BE more than once or twice every 4 seconds you have bad positioning anyway and should be penalized.

NordJitsu

@f0rgiv3n27b14_ESO‌

You're right that it doesn't hurt people who run away with it very much, but that's another argument for why this was a dumb nerf.

All they did was punish people who use it in combat for damage and CC. The people who use it to flee from ganking can still get away.

What they should have done was change it so that using BE would remove any CC immunity. kept the magicka regen debuff for Ball of Lightning but not Streak (since BoL has the lingering effect but Streak does not and also to encourage its use in combat rather than running away), and increased the damage of Streak to make it a more alluring morph.

Their chosen nerf was knee jerk and dumb. I say that not because I don't think that any change would be bad, but because this specific change punishes the people who were using this skill "properly" while doing nothing to those who people were complaining about.

Syndy

I don't think your change would have any effect on sorcs at all. Getting rid of Immunities would not solve anything, Sorcs would just do what they do now to avoid all forms of CC, hold down block and BE...

The change I think that would make the most sense is make Snares and Roots effect BE... If you are rooted you can't BE, if you are snared, you go half the distance... That is the only fix besides what they did that makes any sense due to their anti CD policy (even though they hit templars with a CD a couple patches ago, since removed).

In all honesty I think all gap closers and gap creators should have a CD on them just a couple of seconds on them would stop a ton of QQ from both sides of the issue.

Daethz

To this threads Title.
SO? There are MANY usless spells in this game. DK has half a dozen of them.
Obsidian Shield? Completely USELESS, it wont even fully midigate one normal attack. Yeah totally worth it.

Bolt escape was rigged, got nerfed, now that its not better than every other spell the massive qq has begun, mabye this is a whole new world for sorcs, now you dont have a mandatory spell for every single spec.

xDonMega

So it's pretty much useless if you need to reestablish range mid fight.. so the title of this thread.

killedbyping

Bols escape is still most OP escape ability in game.
You can use it while immobolized and 1 blink is enought to outrange any chasing ability.
Magicka cost doesnt fixed anything.

BSGDevastator

NordJitsu wrote: »

class defining ability

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA LOL!

If that filthy "mommy-help-me" spell really defined you as a Sorcerer then you should go back to the circus and gain money with card tricks.

Seriously, the Sorcerer is the only class that always runs away from a fight. Now you actually have to fight in PvP! How awesome is that?

I cried almost every time when a VR12 Sorc teleported away when they were confronted with me, a little VR2 NB. Seriously, that was so pathetic, it made me shiver.

Today I'm gonna ambush some Sorcerers just because they can't run anymore ahahahahaha. HAIL SITHIS!

Edit: Corrected filthy spelling error.

Skylandra

@‌NordJitsu

While I agree that the changes that have happened to bolt escape are severe - a great player will overcome a change like this and still be great.

Be careful on CD's. I am sure ZOS would describe the negative effects of bolt escape as a de-buff and not as a CD.
The acid test is this - can you use the ability if you have the available resource?
NB gets an armor de-buff with marked target
Some Templar abilities too will stop magika regen while active.
The cost increase is a first (I think - please correct me if I am wrong) but give it a week before making a thread like this. You only sound like those you have previously criticized in this thread.