Please.. enough with the DK nerfs/NB buffs

xaade

Vuron wrote: »

deathpandax_ESO wrote: »

OkieDokie wrote: »

And in the same group a dk is pulling 1.3k.

I'd love to see proof of this

The very first screenshot. The DK links his DPS in group chat. 22.1 second fight, 29,273 damage. 1325 DPS.

Honestly a 1000 DPS difference isn't that big of a deal. that's less than 10%.

But hold up. The why is important here.

They have a twinkle of it, but they need to move on it. Make the game not about DPS. What I mean is, make some stuff that if you don't block you die. Make it very dangerous to not utilize CC and getting out of the bosses way, knowing when to attack, and so on, the most vital aspect of the game.

If you do that, then a < 10% DPS spread won't matter at all.

If the min/max DPS players don't bring CC and reaction time, they die. If they bring CC and use their brain, they live but no longer are max DPS.

That's how you balance the game.

And I've seen it happen.

Was in a boss fight where my bow DPSer ended up stripping aggro and had to tank. I tanked without DPSing, and we won. Who cares if I did less DPS.

Selodaoc

Necromancer

mehmetdemir

deathpandax_ESO wrote: »

Old Post:

NBs are hitting the highest DPS in the game right now by far. DKs are getting lower then Sorcs, which makes no sense at all because Sorcs are ranged DPS and therefor should be lower at a range. This last 1.1.3 nerf really ruined DK DPS, and I wish they had not done it. WIthout the ult generation/standard nerf, DK and NB DPS would be on-par with each other.


Some other peoples take on it:
"Ok…. Everytime I see NB’s whining about their Class, we always point out that NB caster Builds are incredibly powerful, and have some of the best DPS and utility in the game nowThere response is always “Well…That’s a Caster Build, I wanna play with medium armor, duel wield, and a bow!”
Newflash ya noobs…Those DK’s you’re whining about, They’re not running around with Heavy Armor and a 2 hander pulling 1k DPS..They’re running a Caster Build…Same as the Sorcs, You can’t bloody whine your class isn’t competing with other classes in DPS, then complain its not your *** build that’s doing it after we point out how to accomplish it.

You want high DPS right now, You run light armor/staves..It doesn’t matter which class you pick..Your class isn’t broken, its not bad..it isn’t weak…Stamina Builds are..Soon as you fools get that into your thick skulls the better off you’ll be."



"I guess some people are argueing about different things. Things like class balance in PvP can be very opinionated. Some people think having invisibilty is better, some people think having a self heal is better. And honestly its choices like that, that should have went into your class choice decision. Class balance, atleast to me, should put you in line with other DPS numbers that other people are pulling. So here is what annoys me:

Max NB DPS Pre-patch: ~1k Post-patch: ~1.2k

Max DK DPS Pre-patch: ~1.2k Post-patch: ~900

If they didn’t nerf DK DPS, and just buffed NB DPS, then they would both be at 1.2k. Now this may seem irrelevant, but when you are going Trial times, it matters. If your going for an optimal group now, then you wouldn’t want any DKs. And I know for the last 2 weeks the roles have been reversed and NBs weren’t wanted I. A group. (Other then 1-2 for VoB damage mitigation). It’s important enough to the point that both of the top Aetherian teams are having multiple people reroll NB.

Again, all I care about is melee classes having around the same DPS, so we can stop cherry-picking members and stop having to reroll to get optimal teams."

TL:DR All classes are terrible with stamina builds right now. Do stamina builds need a buff? Yes. Buffing/nerfing classes before stamina and magika builds get balanced is only going to make the game more unbalanced.

Dragonknight
Earthen Heart
Magma Armor: This ability no longer stacks if you recast it before the duration expires.
Ardent Flame
Engulfing Flames (Fiery Breath morph): The tooltip for this ability now properly states that it deals increased damage per rank.

Nightblade
Shadow
Dark Cloak: This ability can no longer be activated when you don’t have any magicka.
Manifestation of Terror (Aspect of Terror morph): The wraith summoned by using this ability no longer has collision.
Summon Shade: Fixed an issue where using this ability could cause a monster to stare at the summoned shade for several seconds before attacking you.
Assassination
Incapacitate (Haste morph): This ability now has a visual effect when an enemy is immobilized.
Pressure Points: The tooltip for this ability no longer reports an incorrect value when multiple assassination values are slotted.
Siphoning
Swallow Soul Rank II (Strife morph): This ability is now properly considered a Siphoning ability.

Now tell me where is the DK nerf and where is the NB boost please.

Code2501

mehmetdemir wrote: »

Now tell me where is the DK nerf and where is the NB boost please.

Pretty much. 95% of the changes to NB have been bug fixes, and there are still a bunch that need to be squashed.

If the OP is sore about NB bug fixes then they better lube up because there are plenty more bugs to be squashed in the NB class skills.

Just to name a few that have been plaguing me over the last week...
Invisibility that mobs plain ignore or drops off because you have a dot on the enemy, or just because it feels like dropping off for no reason... still.
Class skill melee sneak attacks that consume magicka but do zero damage, yet I know they are hitting because the stun component fires.

Liea

NombreDeLaBeast wrote: »

LIGHTNING FORM AND BOUND ARMOR:
These two abilities throw the proposed idea above for a loop. these abilities when combines with certain builds allow for far greater armor and spell resistance than available to other characters. This could very well make sorcs very OP (more so than they are currently portrayed, I have a VR6 sorc so I am not bashing them per say.) The only thing that could counter these abilities would be characters with very high armor pen abilities or spell pen abilities.

Proposed changes: Lightning form should not offer more armor, spell resistance sure. keep the aoe damage bubble, but also increase spell power while it is activated. But remove the armor bonus (bound armor does that already.)

I cannot think how to change bound armor...with this ability and light armor players are able to max out both spell resistances and armor stats. The only counter to the above system would again be a very high spell pen rating or armor pen rating.

But lightning form and bound armor are much needed sorcerer abilities for PVE tanking - I tried tanking in heavy armor without bound armor and lightning form, it just did not work out in veteran dungeons or trials since I was constantly out of magicka and therefore could not hold any aggro from more than 1 mob resulting in my group members being slaughtered.

Having lightning form up does allow me to survive longer when attacked by bomb groups spamming impulse - this is undenyable.

In 1 vs 1 PVP lightning form is not really a big issue since I have to keep it up and running, which will drain my magicka pretty fast:
cast lightning form
be stunned
break free
cast 1 or 2 damage spells / weapon attacks
be stunned
break free
recast lightning form
...
Keeping lightning form up and running pretty much prevents myself from doing any significant damage, meaning it just prolongs my dying but does not save me.

And bound armor uses up one slot on both of my weapon swap ability bars because otherwise I would loose its benefits / have to recast it as soon as I swap weapons. I stopped using bound armor in PVP because of that very fact, it limits the number of abilities in my weapon bars too much.

Oinabilac

It's interesting that people keep denying the superiority of Nightblades, when the world record at both Hel-Ra Citadel and Aetherian Archive is done with 6 and 7 Nightblades in the groups.

The Nightblade never was underpowered; builds which include weapons which rely on stamina are.

I could post the dps I am getting during those runs, but clearly it is useless as most people refuse to accept evidence which is right in front of them.

p_tsakirisb16_ESO

@Oinabilac‌

I agree with you mate. My 5 LA / 2 MA NB who relies on his magicka based abilities only, is pretty lethal. I only use DW or Shield for the extra slot.

The damage output is insane, and anyone caught off guard, is dead in matter of seconds.

And I do not rely on critical damage either. Only 18% (Khajiit) I have on both.

Attorneyatlawl

p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »

@Oinabilac‌

I agree with you mate. My 5 LA / 2 MA NB who relies on his magicka based abilities only, is pretty lethal. I only use DW or Shield for the extra slot.

The damage output is insane, and anyone caught off guard, is dead in matter of seconds.

And I do not rely on critical damage either. Only 18% (Khajiit) I have on both.

Yup. Nb relies on timing which means skill, and actually understanding game and then they become ridiculously powerful. Most people don't get any of that in the general playerbase in most games , thus the group think mentality is that they're underpowered. .... /lol.

Kego

Oinabilac wrote: »

It's interesting that people keep denying the superiority of Nightblades, when the world record at both Hel-Ra Citadel and Aetherian Archive is done with 6 and 7 Nightblades in the groups.

The Nightblade never was underpowered; builds which include weapons which rely on stamina are.

I could post the dps I am getting during those runs, but clearly it is useless as most people refuse to accept evidence which is right in front of them.

Long time ago, that someone said NB are underpowerd. What most people complain about is, that the only defense of Nightblades, the cloak, is:

1. Bugged since months

and

2. Can be 100% countered with a Potion and a Lvl 2 Mage Guild Skill that any Magicka User will have slotted cause of the 20% Crit Buff.

Rylana

Andy22 wrote: »

Aoifesan wrote: »

Steel Tornado can be cast every other click.

What does this mean "click"? What is the internal cooldown of Steel Tornado? Impulse is 1 sec if i remember correctly.

Aoifesan wrote: »

Everything you hit you do damage to.

So does Impulse and most other AE skills, whats your point?

Aoifesan wrote: »

If you have siphoning attacks morph, each hit also give you a chance to regain Mag/Stam.

Again, same for Impulse so what?

Aoifesan wrote: »

Oh and all the attacks you do with siphoning attacks active count as siphoning attacks for your siphon attacks 2 ULT per siphon attack passive.

If u mean the "Transfer" passive, no only the damaging "siphoning abilities" gets this boost, so Strife/Agony/Cripple/Drain power. Enabling siphoning strikes does not convert other skills or basic attacks to gain the extra ultimate from "Transfer".

Aoifesan wrote: »

So you can build a goodly bit of ultimate with every Tornado.

The Elemental Ring morph of Impulse, actually applies a ae dot + burning that can actually crit, thats why it has higher Ultimate regen.
What is the "goodly bit" u talk about, tornado does not have a dot or any extra ultimate generation? So if bleeds can crit, the only extra Ultimate can come from the passive bleed chance if u use Axes instead of daggers, lowering your crit chance.


In a normal raid setup my Elemental ring costs 190 magicka and i have 2200 magicka at 60 magicka regen per second (including warlock set). So i can cast 12-16 Impulse in a row, before i run out of magicka, without even using siphoning strikes and lowering my dps.

So how many Tornados can u use in a row?

You forgot something.

You use one pool. I pull from two.

In one resource depletion I can cast 8 or 9 saps and 7 tornadoes.

Those saps do significant damage themselves (actually on par with impulse)

With the stamina builds becoming much more in line with the magicka builds come tomorrow, I wont even have to try hard to out DPS a sorc anymore, nightblade AOE will be the king of trials. (as tornado is going to both cost less and with stamina builds/sets getting significant buffs, I have theory crafted that I will be able to do about 12 tornadoes in one bar of stamina, without a potion, my magicka attacks do not change)

I guess you can say I was ahead of the curve in defending my stance.

DK firebombers and Sorcs may have had their day, but ive already seen the shift in trial composition, the record holding group with 7 minutes had multiple NB DPS in it.

p_tsakirisb16_ESO

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Yup. Nb relies on timing which means skill, and actually understanding game and then they become ridiculously powerful. Most people don't get any of that in the general playerbase in most games , thus the group think mentality is that they're underpowered. .... /lol.

I agree with you. Both NB and Templar classes require more skill and brains, and if behind the keyboard isn't sitting a monkey, they both perform very well.

DK & SC to an extend are "n o o b proof". NB & Assault Templars, if you do a miscalculation, you end up toasted. But they are more rewarding when you kill eg the EP DK Vampire Empress twice in row in span of an hour, while solo, without using Fighter Guild abilities . While you are a Templar.
(and after that she avoids you like garlic).

Kypho

And thats the problem. No need to buff NB or Templars, just fix broken stuff, and adjust DK and Sorc, so ppl need to use their brain to fight. Now you need the IQ of a cat to play DK and Sorc.
Crap is that you need 4 times effort to do the same as them.
(Its not about AoE spamming magelike NB style, maybe even in a choo choo train. its about real fights)

Oinabilac

p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Yup. Nb relies on timing which means skill, and actually understanding game and then they become ridiculously powerful. Most people don't get any of that in the general playerbase in most games , thus the group think mentality is that they're underpowered. .... /lol.

I agree with you. Both NB and Templar classes require more skill and brains, and if behind the keyboard isn't sitting a monkey, they both perform very well.

DK & SC to an extend are "n o o b proof". NB & Assault Templars, if you do a miscalculation, you end up toasted. But they are more rewarding when you kill eg the EP DK Vampire Empress twice in row in span of an hour, while solo, without using Fighter Guild abilities . While you are a Templar.
(and after that she avoids you like garlic).

Just isn't true I am afraid. Nightblade rotation is absurdly simple with funnel health and crippling grasp; anyone should be able to play a Nightblade and do well as long as they rely on the best build.

Dragonknights have a simple rotation, although not as simple as Nightblades, with engulfing flame, unstable flame and scalding rune.

Templar rotation is a pain in the ass when using power of the light builds and yield as far as I have seen complete and utter crap dps.

Sorcerers have the same issue as Templars when using crystal fragment builds, still it results in crap dps. The only fix which might help Sorcerers out is patch 1.3 which supposedly fixes the storm atronach.

There are alternate builds for Templars and Sorcerers which are based on crushing shock, but I have not seen people succeed very well with those builds either.

Based on hundreds of trial runs with different combinations of classes and different people playing those classes, the best kind of dps I have ever seen someone pull of at Aetherian Archive in the order of lightning storm atronach, foundation stone atronach, varlariel and the mage is as follows:

Dragonknights: 1730, 1250, 1200, 1150
Nightblades: 1780, 1410, 1200, 1100
Sorcerer: 1350, 1000, 850, 700
Templar: 1270, 850, 840, 700

Nightblades suffer from a major issue which results in lower dps than Dragonknights during longer boss fights, this issue is that they run out of magicka. But with patch 1.3 magicka regeneration will be significantly boosted resulting in quite possibly sustained 1400-1500 dps; with the new patch no other class will have a chance against the Nightblade.

But damage is not the only thing the Nightblade is good at; there is excellent utility through the veil of blades ultimate which protect all party members and deals massive damage over time.

There is the best aoe dps ability in the game in the form of power extraction coupled with a restoration stuff. This ability deals damage to 9 targets rather than the usual limitation of 6 which applies to pulsar/elemental ring. Not only that, but thanks to the siphoning passive along with the ultimate from the assasination skill line soul harvest, you also get absurdly high ultimate regen. On the mage at AA I drop one veil of blades on first trash group, another one on second trash group and then immediately after that I drop another one on the mage, this is just not possible if you play anything but Nightblade.

I will go on for a while...

The other morph from drain power is sap essence; the best aoe heal in the game and it actually does better damage than pulsar/fire ring as well. It is capable of healing through the entire trash at Hel-Ra Citadel with 6 people when coupled with the siphoning attacks ability (the trash before you enter the door to the warrior). This is one of the reasons we managed to get an 8min08sec time at Hel-Ra.

Dark cloak / shadowy disguise; allows 6 nightblades at Hel-Ra Citadel together with concealed weapon, on the right side, to sneak through every single trash group and start killing the second boss immediately; making it possible to enter the door to the warrior at 5min30sec, if you have a group of 1.1k+ dpsers.

Impale; most insane execute skill in the game. With 6 nightblades spamming impale at The Warrior he is down just a few seconds after his first aoe phase. The Mage, with 7 nightblades spamming impale, goes down in 15 seconds from 25% health. One person spamming healing springs is enough as a consequence of it.

Funnel health is not just a very good dps ability, but with 6-7 Nightblades it is basically the only healing you need and every single person can go dps most of the time.

The only reason I would never take 12 Nightblades in my trial group is because Nightblades can't pull targets, therefore we need Dragonknigts.

After patch I am almost certain that the best trial times possible will be done with 2 Dragonknights (One tank and one dps, both use chains) and 10 Nightblades.

These things make the game less fun. I would much rather have a group containing three players of each class; and have that be the best possible setup.

It's about time for Zenimax to begin realizing that the Nightblade certainly doesn't have a problem, quite the opposite, it is thriving; the Nightblade needs to be nerfed.

Edit:

Most of the statements made in this post have now become obsolete. Some of the things I wrote here are inefficient now, they were even back in August, but the general principle still holds.

Anastasia

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »

@Oinabilac‌

I agree with you mate. My 5 LA / 2 MA NB who relies on his magicka based abilities only, is pretty lethal. I only use DW or Shield for the extra slot.

The damage output is insane, and anyone caught off guard, is dead in matter of seconds.

And I do not rely on critical damage either. Only 18% (Khajiit) I have on both.

Yup. Nb relies on timing which means skill, and actually understanding game and then they become ridiculously powerful. Most people don't get any of that in the general playerbase in most games , thus the group think mentality is that they're underpowered. .... /lol.

---

"Most people don't get any of that in the general playerbase in most games , thus the group think mentality..."

Agreed. Overall stam needs love, but NB's need some more specific fixes to problems. Its true they can be handled awesomely though, even now.

Your quote above is exactly what I think happened with the cry for solo-all-the-time-through-all-the-content Vet+ 1-10 NERF. *Nods sadly.

Shunravi

Oinabilac wrote: »

p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Yup. Nb relies on timing which means skill, and actually understanding game and then they become ridiculously powerful. Most people don't get any of that in the general playerbase in most games , thus the group think mentality is that they're underpowered. .... /lol.

I agree with you. Both NB and Templar classes require more skill and brains, and if behind the keyboard isn't sitting a monkey, they both perform very well.

DK & SC to an extend are "n o o b proof". NB & Assault Templars, if you do a miscalculation, you end up toasted. But they are more rewarding when you kill eg the EP DK Vampire Empress twice in row in span of an hour, while solo, without using Fighter Guild abilities . While you are a Templar.
(and after that she avoids you like garlic).

Just isn't true I am afraid. Nightblade rotation is absurdly simple with funnel health and crippling grasp; anyone should be able to play a Nightblade and do well as long as they rely on the best build.

Dragonknights have a simple rotation, although not as simple as Nightblades, with engulfing flame, unstable flame and scalding rune.

Templar rotation is a pain in the ass when using power of the light builds and yield as far as I have seen complete and other crap dps.

Sorcerers have the same issue as Templars when using crystal fragment builds, still it results in crap dps. The only fix which might help Sorcerers out is patch 1.3 which supposedly fixes the storm atronach.

There are alternate builds for Templars and Sorcerers which are based on crushing shocks, but I have not seen people succeed very well with those builds either.

Based on hundreds of trial runs with different combinations of classes and different people playing those classes, the best kind of dps I have ever seen someone pull of at Aetherian Archive in the order of lightning storm atronach, foundation stone atronach, varlariel and the mage is as follows:

Dragonknights: 1730, 1250, 1200, 1150
Nightblades: 1780, 1410, 1200, 1100
Sorcerer: 1350, 1000, 850, 700
Templar: 1270, 850, 840, 700

Nightblades suffer from a major issue which results in lower dps than Dragonknights during longer boss fights, this issue is that they run out of magicka. But with patch 1.3 magicka regeneration will be significantly boosted resulting in quite possibly sustained 1400-1500 dps; with the new patch no other class will have a chance against the Nightblade.

But damage is not the only thing the Nightblade is good at; there is excellent utility through the veil of blades ultimate which protect all party members and deals massive damage over time.

There is the best aoe dps ability in the game in the form of power extraction coupled with a restoration stuff. This ability deals damage to 9 targets rather than the usual limitation of 6 which applies to pulsar/elemental ring. Not only that, but thanks to the siphoning passive along with the ultimate from the assasination skill line soul harvest, you also get absurdly high ultimate regen. On the mage at AA I drop one veil of blades on first trash group, another one on second trash group and then immediately after that I drop another one on the mage, this is just not possible if you play anything but Nightblade.

I will go on for a while...

The other morph from drain power is sap essence; the best aoe heal in the game and it actually does better damage than pulsar/fire ring as well. It is capable of healing through the entire trash at Hel-Ra Citadel with 6 people when coupled with the siphoning attacks ability (the trash before you enter the door to the warrior). This is one of the reasons we managed to get an 8min08sec time at Hel-Ra.

Dark cloak / shadowy disguise; allows 6 nightblades at Hel-Ra Citadel together with concealed weapon, on the right side, to sneak through every single trash group and start killing the second boss immediately; making it possible to enter the door to the warrior at 5min30sec, if you have a group of 1.1k+ dpsers.

Impale; most insane execute skill in the game. With 6 nightblades spamming impale at The Warrior he is down just a few seconds after his first aoe phase. The Mage, with 7 nightblades spamming impale, goes down in 15 seconds from 25% health. One person spamming healing springs is enough as a consequence of it.

Funnel health is not just a very good dps ability, but with 6-7 Nightblades it is basically the only healing you need and every single person can go dps most of the time.

The only reason I would never take 12 Nightblades in my trial group is because Nightblades can't pull targets, therefore we need Dragonknigts.

After patch I am almost certain that the best trial times possible will be done with 2 Dragonknights (One tank and one dps, both use chains) and 10 Nightblades.

These things make the game less fun. I would much rather have a group containing three players of each class; and have that be the best possible setup.

It's about time for Zenimax to begin realizing that the Nightblade certainly doesn't have a problem, quite the opposite, it is thriving; the Nightblade needs to be nerfed.

And there you have it.

Seriously, Nightblades as a class are fine.

xMovingTarget

Finally someone made that clear. Thanks @Oinabilac True That

Vuron

@Shunravi wrote: »

@Oinabilac wrote: »

p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Yup. Nb relies on timing which means skill, and actually understanding game and then they become ridiculously powerful. Most people don't get any of that in the general playerbase in most games , thus the group think mentality is that they're underpowered. .... /lol.

I agree with you. Both NB and Templar classes require more skill and brains, and if behind the keyboard isn't sitting a monkey, they both perform very well.

DK & SC to an extend are "n o o b proof". NB & Assault Templars, if you do a miscalculation, you end up toasted. But they are more rewarding when you kill eg the EP DK Vampire Empress twice in row in span of an hour, while solo, without using Fighter Guild abilities . While you are a Templar.
(and after that she avoids you like garlic).

Just isn't true I am afraid. Nightblade rotation is absurdly simple with funnel health and crippling grasp; anyone should be able to play a Nightblade and do well as long as they rely on the best build.

Dragonknights have a simple rotation, although not as simple as Nightblades, with engulfing flame, unstable flame and scalding rune.

Templar rotation is a pain in the ass when using power of the light builds and yield as far as I have seen complete and other crap dps.

Sorcerers have the same issue as Templars when using crystal fragment builds, still it results in crap dps. The only fix which might help Sorcerers out is patch 1.3 which supposedly fixes the storm atronach.

There are alternate builds for Templars and Sorcerers which are based on crushing shocks, but I have not seen people succeed very well with those builds either.

Based on hundreds of trial runs with different combinations of classes and different people playing those classes, the best kind of dps I have ever seen someone pull of at Aetherian Archive in the order of lightning storm atronach, foundation stone atronach, varlariel and the mage is as follows:

Dragonknights: 1730, 1250, 1200, 1150
Nightblades: 1780, 1410, 1200, 1100
Sorcerer: 1350, 1000, 850, 700
Templar: 1270, 850, 840, 700

Nightblades suffer from a major issue which results in lower dps than Dragonknights during longer boss fights, this issue is that they run out of magicka. But with patch 1.3 magicka regeneration will be significantly boosted resulting in quite possibly sustained 1400-1500 dps; with the new patch no other class will have a chance against the Nightblade.

But damage is not the only thing the Nightblade is good at; there is excellent utility through the veil of blades ultimate which protect all party members and deals massive damage over time.

There is the best aoe dps ability in the game in the form of power extraction coupled with a restoration stuff. This ability deals damage to 9 targets rather than the usual limitation of 6 which applies to pulsar/elemental ring. Not only that, but thanks to the siphoning passive along with the ultimate from the assasination skill line soul harvest, you also get absurdly high ultimate regen. On the mage at AA I drop one veil of blades on first trash group, another one on second trash group and then immediately after that I drop another one on the mage, this is just not possible if you play anything but Nightblade.

I will go on for a while...

The other morph from drain power is sap essence; the best aoe heal in the game and it actually does better damage than pulsar/fire ring as well. It is capable of healing through the entire trash at Hel-Ra Citadel with 6 people when coupled with the siphoning attacks ability (the trash before you enter the door to the warrior). This is one of the reasons we managed to get an 8min08sec time at Hel-Ra.

Dark cloak / shadowy disguise; allows 6 nightblades at Hel-Ra Citadel together with concealed weapon, on the right side, to sneak through every single trash group and start killing the second boss immediately; making it possible to enter the door to the warrior at 5min30sec, if you have a group of 1.1k+ dpsers.

Impale; most insane execute skill in the game. With 6 nightblades spamming impale at The Warrior he is down just a few seconds after his first aoe phase. The Mage, with 7 nightblades spamming impale, goes down in 15 seconds from 25% health. One person spamming healing springs is enough as a consequence of it.

Funnel health is not just a very good dps ability, but with 6-7 Nightblades it is basically the only healing you need and every single person can go dps most of the time.

The only reason I would never take 12 Nightblades in my trial group is because Nightblades can't pull targets, therefore we need Dragonknigts.

After patch I am almost certain that the best trial times possible will be done with 2 Dragonknights (One tank and one dps, both use chains) and 10 Nightblades.

These things make the game less fun. I would much rather have a group containing three players of each class; and have that be the best possible setup.

It's about time for Zenimax to begin realizing that the Nightblade certainly doesn't have a problem, quite the opposite, it is thriving; the Nightblade needs to be nerfed.

And there you have it.

Seriously, Nightblades as a class are fine.

Unfortunately, as well as the argument was made, the only response you're going to get is "but this is a Nightstaff" and "I want to be a NightBLADE", or the more common "but I want to use my bow".

People will just never admit that it's not an issue with the class, but an issue with weapon skills and most stamina based builds.

Oinabilac

Vuron wrote: »

@Shunravi wrote: »

@Oinabilac wrote: »

p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Yup. Nb relies on timing which means skill, and actually understanding game and then they become ridiculously powerful. Most people don't get any of that in the general playerbase in most games , thus the group think mentality is that they're underpowered. .... /lol.

I agree with you. Both NB and Templar classes require more skill and brains, and if behind the keyboard isn't sitting a monkey, they both perform very well.

DK & SC to an extend are "n o o b proof". NB & Assault Templars, if you do a miscalculation, you end up toasted. But they are more rewarding when you kill eg the EP DK Vampire Empress twice in row in span of an hour, while solo, without using Fighter Guild abilities . While you are a Templar.
(and after that she avoids you like garlic).

Just isn't true I am afraid. Nightblade rotation is absurdly simple with funnel health and crippling grasp; anyone should be able to play a Nightblade and do well as long as they rely on the best build.

Dragonknights have a simple rotation, although not as simple as Nightblades, with engulfing flame, unstable flame and scalding rune.

Templar rotation is a pain in the ass when using power of the light builds and yield as far as I have seen complete and other crap dps.

Sorcerers have the same issue as Templars when using crystal fragment builds, still it results in crap dps. The only fix which might help Sorcerers out is patch 1.3 which supposedly fixes the storm atronach.

There are alternate builds for Templars and Sorcerers which are based on crushing shocks, but I have not seen people succeed very well with those builds either.

Based on hundreds of trial runs with different combinations of classes and different people playing those classes, the best kind of dps I have ever seen someone pull of at Aetherian Archive in the order of lightning storm atronach, foundation stone atronach, varlariel and the mage is as follows:

Dragonknights: 1730, 1250, 1200, 1150
Nightblades: 1780, 1410, 1200, 1100
Sorcerer: 1350, 1000, 850, 700
Templar: 1270, 850, 840, 700

Nightblades suffer from a major issue which results in lower dps than Dragonknights during longer boss fights, this issue is that they run out of magicka. But with patch 1.3 magicka regeneration will be significantly boosted resulting in quite possibly sustained 1400-1500 dps; with the new patch no other class will have a chance against the Nightblade.

But damage is not the only thing the Nightblade is good at; there is excellent utility through the veil of blades ultimate which protect all party members and deals massive damage over time.

There is the best aoe dps ability in the game in the form of power extraction coupled with a restoration stuff. This ability deals damage to 9 targets rather than the usual limitation of 6 which applies to pulsar/elemental ring. Not only that, but thanks to the siphoning passive along with the ultimate from the assasination skill line soul harvest, you also get absurdly high ultimate regen. On the mage at AA I drop one veil of blades on first trash group, another one on second trash group and then immediately after that I drop another one on the mage, this is just not possible if you play anything but Nightblade.

I will go on for a while...

The other morph from drain power is sap essence; the best aoe heal in the game and it actually does better damage than pulsar/fire ring as well. It is capable of healing through the entire trash at Hel-Ra Citadel with 6 people when coupled with the siphoning attacks ability (the trash before you enter the door to the warrior). This is one of the reasons we managed to get an 8min08sec time at Hel-Ra.

Dark cloak / shadowy disguise; allows 6 nightblades at Hel-Ra Citadel together with concealed weapon, on the right side, to sneak through every single trash group and start killing the second boss immediately; making it possible to enter the door to the warrior at 5min30sec, if you have a group of 1.1k+ dpsers.

Impale; most insane execute skill in the game. With 6 nightblades spamming impale at The Warrior he is down just a few seconds after his first aoe phase. The Mage, with 7 nightblades spamming impale, goes down in 15 seconds from 25% health. One person spamming healing springs is enough as a consequence of it.

Funnel health is not just a very good dps ability, but with 6-7 Nightblades it is basically the only healing you need and every single person can go dps most of the time.

The only reason I would never take 12 Nightblades in my trial group is because Nightblades can't pull targets, therefore we need Dragonknigts.

After patch I am almost certain that the best trial times possible will be done with 2 Dragonknights (One tank and one dps, both use chains) and 10 Nightblades.

These things make the game less fun. I would much rather have a group containing three players of each class; and have that be the best possible setup.

It's about time for Zenimax to begin realizing that the Nightblade certainly doesn't have a problem, quite the opposite, it is thriving; the Nightblade needs to be nerfed.

And there you have it.

Seriously, Nightblades as a class are fine.

Unfortunately, as well as the argument was made, the only response you're going to get is "but this is a Nightstaff" and "I want to be a NightBLADE", or the more common "but I want to use my bow".

People will just never admit that it's not an issue with the class, but an issue with weapon skills and most stamina based builds.

Absolutely correct.

Unfortunately I don't see builds based on weapons using stamina ever being fixed without fundamentally changing the core of classes either. The "Nightstaff" will always triumph as long as class ablities use magicka, this is entirely a consequence of the Transfer passive in the siphoning skill line. Nightblades rely on their veil of blades more than anything else. This means that fast ultimate regeneration is essential for their success. As long as ultimate regen is higher for magicka builds, the "Nightstaff" will continue to be the best choice.

Switching class abilities so they use either stamina or magicka, make them dynamic in the sense that the game chooses whichever gives the best result (like the idea Zenimax have for ultimates), will not be a good idea either. If they do that, then we will end up with a game where magicka is completely useless for stamina users.

Shunravi

Vuron wrote: »

@Shunravi wrote: »

@Oinabilac wrote: »

p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Yup. Nb relies on timing which means skill, and actually understanding game and then they become ridiculously powerful. Most people don't get any of that in the general playerbase in most games , thus the group think mentality is that they're underpowered. .... /lol.

I agree with you. Both NB and Templar classes require more skill and brains, and if behind the keyboard isn't sitting a monkey, they both perform very well.

DK & SC to an extend are "n o o b proof". NB & Assault Templars, if you do a miscalculation, you end up toasted. But they are more rewarding when you kill eg the EP DK Vampire Empress twice in row in span of an hour, while solo, without using Fighter Guild abilities . While you are a Templar.
(and after that she avoids you like garlic).

Just isn't true I am afraid. Nightblade rotation is absurdly simple with funnel health and crippling grasp; anyone should be able to play a Nightblade and do well as long as they rely on the best build.

Dragonknights have a simple rotation, although not as simple as Nightblades, with engulfing flame, unstable flame and scalding rune.

Templar rotation is a pain in the ass when using power of the light builds and yield as far as I have seen complete and other crap dps.

Sorcerers have the same issue as Templars when using crystal fragment builds, still it results in crap dps. The only fix which might help Sorcerers out is patch 1.3 which supposedly fixes the storm atronach.

There are alternate builds for Templars and Sorcerers which are based on crushing shocks, but I have not seen people succeed very well with those builds either.

Based on hundreds of trial runs with different combinations of classes and different people playing those classes, the best kind of dps I have ever seen someone pull of at Aetherian Archive in the order of lightning storm atronach, foundation stone atronach, varlariel and the mage is as follows:

Dragonknights: 1730, 1250, 1200, 1150
Nightblades: 1780, 1410, 1200, 1100
Sorcerer: 1350, 1000, 850, 700
Templar: 1270, 850, 840, 700

Nightblades suffer from a major issue which results in lower dps than Dragonknights during longer boss fights, this issue is that they run out of magicka. But with patch 1.3 magicka regeneration will be significantly boosted resulting in quite possibly sustained 1400-1500 dps; with the new patch no other class will have a chance against the Nightblade.

But damage is not the only thing the Nightblade is good at; there is excellent utility through the veil of blades ultimate which protect all party members and deals massive damage over time.

There is the best aoe dps ability in the game in the form of power extraction coupled with a restoration stuff. This ability deals damage to 9 targets rather than the usual limitation of 6 which applies to pulsar/elemental ring. Not only that, but thanks to the siphoning passive along with the ultimate from the assasination skill line soul harvest, you also get absurdly high ultimate regen. On the mage at AA I drop one veil of blades on first trash group, another one on second trash group and then immediately after that I drop another one on the mage, this is just not possible if you play anything but Nightblade.

I will go on for a while...

The other morph from drain power is sap essence; the best aoe heal in the game and it actually does better damage than pulsar/fire ring as well. It is capable of healing through the entire trash at Hel-Ra Citadel with 6 people when coupled with the siphoning attacks ability (the trash before you enter the door to the warrior). This is one of the reasons we managed to get an 8min08sec time at Hel-Ra.

Dark cloak / shadowy disguise; allows 6 nightblades at Hel-Ra Citadel together with concealed weapon, on the right side, to sneak through every single trash group and start killing the second boss immediately; making it possible to enter the door to the warrior at 5min30sec, if you have a group of 1.1k+ dpsers.

Impale; most insane execute skill in the game. With 6 nightblades spamming impale at The Warrior he is down just a few seconds after his first aoe phase. The Mage, with 7 nightblades spamming impale, goes down in 15 seconds from 25% health. One person spamming healing springs is enough as a consequence of it.

Funnel health is not just a very good dps ability, but with 6-7 Nightblades it is basically the only healing you need and every single person can go dps most of the time.

The only reason I would never take 12 Nightblades in my trial group is because Nightblades can't pull targets, therefore we need Dragonknigts.

After patch I am almost certain that the best trial times possible will be done with 2 Dragonknights (One tank and one dps, both use chains) and 10 Nightblades.

These things make the game less fun. I would much rather have a group containing three players of each class; and have that be the best possible setup.

It's about time for Zenimax to begin realizing that the Nightblade certainly doesn't have a problem, quite the opposite, it is thriving; the Nightblade needs to be nerfed.

And there you have it.

Seriously, Nightblades as a class are fine.

Unfortunately, as well as the argument was made, the only response you're going to get is "but this is a Nightstaff" and "I want to be a NightBLADE", or the more common "but I want to use my bow".

People will just never admit that it's not an issue with the class, but an issue with weapon skills and most stamina based builds.

Oh, I agree.

But, as you said, this is talking about class not weapons.

Here's the kicker though. I run vet dungeons and craglorn with a two hander and bow. And I do it along side a guildie nightblade with a very similar build. Honestly, for me, the only benifit of running a destro staff is to lay down wall of elements with twisting path to turn the floor to lava. Drain power+>impulse+ imo, even without the 10% from resto.

Oinabilac

In the end it all comes down to absolutely terrible game design. These issues could have been spotted by a decent undergraduate student far before launch.

Vuron

Shunravi wrote: »

Vuron wrote: »

@Shunravi wrote: »

@Oinabilac wrote: »

p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Yup. Nb relies on timing which means skill, and actually understanding game and then they become ridiculously powerful. Most people don't get any of that in the general playerbase in most games , thus the group think mentality is that they're underpowered. .... /lol.

I agree with you. Both NB and Templar classes require more skill and brains, and if behind the keyboard isn't sitting a monkey, they both perform very well.

DK & SC to an extend are "n o o b proof". NB & Assault Templars, if you do a miscalculation, you end up toasted. But they are more rewarding when you kill eg the EP DK Vampire Empress twice in row in span of an hour, while solo, without using Fighter Guild abilities . While you are a Templar.
(and after that she avoids you like garlic).

Just isn't true I am afraid. Nightblade rotation is absurdly simple with funnel health and crippling grasp; anyone should be able to play a Nightblade and do well as long as they rely on the best build.

Dragonknights have a simple rotation, although not as simple as Nightblades, with engulfing flame, unstable flame and scalding rune.

Templar rotation is a pain in the ass when using power of the light builds and yield as far as I have seen complete and other crap dps.

Sorcerers have the same issue as Templars when using crystal fragment builds, still it results in crap dps. The only fix which might help Sorcerers out is patch 1.3 which supposedly fixes the storm atronach.

There are alternate builds for Templars and Sorcerers which are based on crushing shocks, but I have not seen people succeed very well with those builds either.

Based on hundreds of trial runs with different combinations of classes and different people playing those classes, the best kind of dps I have ever seen someone pull of at Aetherian Archive in the order of lightning storm atronach, foundation stone atronach, varlariel and the mage is as follows:

Dragonknights: 1730, 1250, 1200, 1150
Nightblades: 1780, 1410, 1200, 1100
Sorcerer: 1350, 1000, 850, 700
Templar: 1270, 850, 840, 700

Nightblades suffer from a major issue which results in lower dps than Dragonknights during longer boss fights, this issue is that they run out of magicka. But with patch 1.3 magicka regeneration will be significantly boosted resulting in quite possibly sustained 1400-1500 dps; with the new patch no other class will have a chance against the Nightblade.

But damage is not the only thing the Nightblade is good at; there is excellent utility through the veil of blades ultimate which protect all party members and deals massive damage over time.

There is the best aoe dps ability in the game in the form of power extraction coupled with a restoration stuff. This ability deals damage to 9 targets rather than the usual limitation of 6 which applies to pulsar/elemental ring. Not only that, but thanks to the siphoning passive along with the ultimate from the assasination skill line soul harvest, you also get absurdly high ultimate regen. On the mage at AA I drop one veil of blades on first trash group, another one on second trash group and then immediately after that I drop another one on the mage, this is just not possible if you play anything but Nightblade.

I will go on for a while...

The other morph from drain power is sap essence; the best aoe heal in the game and it actually does better damage than pulsar/fire ring as well. It is capable of healing through the entire trash at Hel-Ra Citadel with 6 people when coupled with the siphoning attacks ability (the trash before you enter the door to the warrior). This is one of the reasons we managed to get an 8min08sec time at Hel-Ra.

Dark cloak / shadowy disguise; allows 6 nightblades at Hel-Ra Citadel together with concealed weapon, on the right side, to sneak through every single trash group and start killing the second boss immediately; making it possible to enter the door to the warrior at 5min30sec, if you have a group of 1.1k+ dpsers.

Impale; most insane execute skill in the game. With 6 nightblades spamming impale at The Warrior he is down just a few seconds after his first aoe phase. The Mage, with 7 nightblades spamming impale, goes down in 15 seconds from 25% health. One person spamming healing springs is enough as a consequence of it.

Funnel health is not just a very good dps ability, but with 6-7 Nightblades it is basically the only healing you need and every single person can go dps most of the time.

The only reason I would never take 12 Nightblades in my trial group is because Nightblades can't pull targets, therefore we need Dragonknigts.

After patch I am almost certain that the best trial times possible will be done with 2 Dragonknights (One tank and one dps, both use chains) and 10 Nightblades.

These things make the game less fun. I would much rather have a group containing three players of each class; and have that be the best possible setup.

It's about time for Zenimax to begin realizing that the Nightblade certainly doesn't have a problem, quite the opposite, it is thriving; the Nightblade needs to be nerfed.

And there you have it.

Seriously, Nightblades as a class are fine.

Unfortunately, as well as the argument was made, the only response you're going to get is "but this is a Nightstaff" and "I want to be a NightBLADE", or the more common "but I want to use my bow".

People will just never admit that it's not an issue with the class, but an issue with weapon skills and most stamina based builds.

Oh, I agree.

But, as you said, this is talking about class not weapons.

Here's the kicker though. I run vet dungeons and craglorn with a two hander and bow. And I do it along side a guildie nightblade with a very similar build. Honestly, for me, the only benifit of running a destro staff is to lay down wall of elements with twisting path to turn the floor to lava. Drain power+>impulse+ imo, even without the 10% from resto.

I happen to agree with you here, too. I've said before that a DW NB can do about the same damage as a Resto NB using the same skills. The determining factor is the mechanics of the fight. Having to run in and out of boss AoE or adjusting for teleporting bosses like the boss in vet BC is what hinders a melee weapon versus a ranged weapon. This, more than the resto damage passive, is what makes ranged weapons so much more valuable in end-game versus melee weapons.

Shunravi

.

Vuron wrote: »

Shunravi wrote: »

Vuron wrote: »

@Shunravi wrote: »

@Oinabilac wrote: »

p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Yup. Nb relies on timing which means skill, and actually understanding game and then they become ridiculously powerful. Most people don't get any of that in the general playerbase in most games , thus the group think mentality is that they're underpowered. .... /lol.

I agree with you. Both NB and Templar classes require more skill and brains, and if behind the keyboard isn't sitting a monkey, they both perform very well.

DK & SC to an extend are "n o o b proof". NB & Assault Templars, if you do a miscalculation, you end up toasted. But they are more rewarding when you kill eg the EP DK Vampire Empress twice in row in span of an hour, while solo, without using Fighter Guild abilities . While you are a Templar.
(and after that she avoids you like garlic).

Just isn't true I am afraid. Nightblade rotation is absurdly simple with funnel health and crippling grasp; anyone should be able to play a Nightblade and do well as long as they rely on the best build.

Dragonknights have a simple rotation, although not as simple as Nightblades, with engulfing flame, unstable flame and scalding rune.

Templar rotation is a pain in the ass when using power of the light builds and yield as far as I have seen complete and other crap dps.

Sorcerers have the same issue as Templars when using crystal fragment builds, still it results in crap dps. The only fix which might help Sorcerers out is patch 1.3 which supposedly fixes the storm atronach.

There are alternate builds for Templars and Sorcerers which are based on crushing shocks, but I have not seen people succeed very well with those builds either.

Based on hundreds of trial runs with different combinations of classes and different people playing those classes, the best kind of dps I have ever seen someone pull of at Aetherian Archive in the order of lightning storm atronach, foundation stone atronach, varlariel and the mage is as follows:

Dragonknights: 1730, 1250, 1200, 1150
Nightblades: 1780, 1410, 1200, 1100
Sorcerer: 1350, 1000, 850, 700
Templar: 1270, 850, 840, 700

Nightblades suffer from a major issue which results in lower dps than Dragonknights during longer boss fights, this issue is that they run out of magicka. But with patch 1.3 magicka regeneration will be significantly boosted resulting in quite possibly sustained 1400-1500 dps; with the new patch no other class will have a chance against the Nightblade.

But damage is not the only thing the Nightblade is good at; there is excellent utility through the veil of blades ultimate which protect all party members and deals massive damage over time.

There is the best aoe dps ability in the game in the form of power extraction coupled with a restoration stuff. This ability deals damage to 9 targets rather than the usual limitation of 6 which applies to pulsar/elemental ring. Not only that, but thanks to the siphoning passive along with the ultimate from the assasination skill line soul harvest, you also get absurdly high ultimate regen. On the mage at AA I drop one veil of blades on first trash group, another one on second trash group and then immediately after that I drop another one on the mage, this is just not possible if you play anything but Nightblade.

I will go on for a while...

The other morph from drain power is sap essence; the best aoe heal in the game and it actually does better damage than pulsar/fire ring as well. It is capable of healing through the entire trash at Hel-Ra Citadel with 6 people when coupled with the siphoning attacks ability (the trash before you enter the door to the warrior). This is one of the reasons we managed to get an 8min08sec time at Hel-Ra.

Dark cloak / shadowy disguise; allows 6 nightblades at Hel-Ra Citadel together with concealed weapon, on the right side, to sneak through every single trash group and start killing the second boss immediately; making it possible to enter the door to the warrior at 5min30sec, if you have a group of 1.1k+ dpsers.

Impale; most insane execute skill in the game. With 6 nightblades spamming impale at The Warrior he is down just a few seconds after his first aoe phase. The Mage, with 7 nightblades spamming impale, goes down in 15 seconds from 25% health. One person spamming healing springs is enough as a consequence of it.

Funnel health is not just a very good dps ability, but with 6-7 Nightblades it is basically the only healing you need and every single person can go dps most of the time.

The only reason I would never take 12 Nightblades in my trial group is because Nightblades can't pull targets, therefore we need Dragonknigts.

After patch I am almost certain that the best trial times possible will be done with 2 Dragonknights (One tank and one dps, both use chains) and 10 Nightblades.

These things make the game less fun. I would much rather have a group containing three players of each class; and have that be the best possible setup.

It's about time for Zenimax to begin realizing that the Nightblade certainly doesn't have a problem, quite the opposite, it is thriving; the Nightblade needs to be nerfed.

And there you have it.

Seriously, Nightblades as a class are fine.

Unfortunately, as well as the argument was made, the only response you're going to get is "but this is a Nightstaff" and "I want to be a NightBLADE", or the more common "but I want to use my bow".

People will just never admit that it's not an issue with the class, but an issue with weapon skills and most stamina based builds.

Oh, I agree.

But, as you said, this is talking about class not weapons.

Here's the kicker though. I run vet dungeons and craglorn with a two hander and bow. And I do it along side a guildie nightblade with a very similar build. Honestly, for me, the only benifit of running a destro staff is to lay down wall of elements with twisting path to turn the floor to lava. Drain power+>impulse+ imo, even without the 10% from resto.

I happen to agree with you here, too. I've said before that a DW NB can do about the same damage as a Resto NB using the same skills. The determining factor is the mechanics of the fight. Having to run in and out of boss AoE or adjusting for teleporting bosses like the boss in vet BC is what hinders a melee weapon versus a ranged weapon. This, more than the resto damage passive, is what makes ranged weapons so much more valuable in end-game versus melee weapons.

Which is why I sometimes run ambush and shadow image. Nightblades are build around kiting. Whether it's path or cripple, you get a speed boost (along with dot) so you can easily maneuver the battlefield. There are two teleport options available, and cloak can shed agro onto your tank should your awesome dps cause to much threat. I guess what I'm saying is, we have viable options for melee.

But even with those options, ranged turn and fire is better. Which is why I have my bow. As long as I keep the dots from crippling grasp and venom arrow up, I'm free to do whatever I want with my other three slots. Though I often have siphoning attacks on because

Vargtask

Zeni painted themselves into a corner with classes there is no denying that, no matter how much they try to spin builds around to "prove" the viability of anything other what Oina wrote etc.

There is 3 different ways of playing this game I suppose which allow for different builds.

1: Pre end game, play however you want, it do not matter, you get away with whatever shitbuild you can come up with pretty much.

2: Warfront go full impene and suit your needs after playstyle, here you got some options.

3: End Game, there is only one way for each class to max dps to the fullest here and that is light armor and staves. Stamina got nothing to collect here if you want to do decent runs, to do top runs you need exactly what Oina pointed out.
I do not consider the VET-dungeons or Craglorn quests to be end game since they provide very low challenge, trials are the only challenge in the game atm.

Zeni will continue to make money out of casuals just leveling chars not doing end game, or the warfront crowd, thats it.

Kego

Just get rid of time runs and people will not be that much into totally min/maxing.
Competitive PvE Content is the most stupiest thing, you could ever come up with, if you want your players, to play as they want.

Merrak

Just because your obscure DK build is not OP, it does not define the class as a whole. Class skills need to be in line with other classes, then buff up weapon builds slowly, while seeing how the changes will effect all classes.

Although, now that Break Free grants immunity, I foresee a lot of FotM Talons/Standard Spammers finding a new class to play.

kijima

What I've come to notice now is some DK's are squishy!

venomsky

so this topic was created by DK?After the news that zos planing to nerf DKs , DKs start crying, truth is to play with dk u dont need use u brain.

Kypho

soo. wall of text is looking nice on paper. Ofc... Its like a weak DK, good NB, lame sorc and lame templar to me. Plus there are better combos than you listed ROFL.... Even if all of this would be true with your random number, what is completly untrue, try out pvp.... Whatever trash you talk, NB is the hardest and need more brain to play than any other. not speaking about the lame pve s...t. At Clagroln anyone can solo 10 mobs in group dungeons with NB and what.... seriously.... PvE is just a big joke. Anything is soloable, what not oneshotting you, or doing WTF damage. Building up DPS is really easy and going up into the sky. Trials really... you are such a big heroes. All can do high DPS in that. I have templar and i do more DPS with it.

NB need to get up to others in pvp, where others perfoming better with 4 times less effort. Ye you can kill fast like hell, but if you fail... you perform much less than any other. Try it out.

Cant wait for the next wall of BS text about numbers. I did 2500 aoe dps in a dungeon in pve NERF MEHH pve....

Kypho

"Magma Armor: This ability no longer stacks if you recast it before the duration expires."

Whats the point of this? This is not the dmg cap at 3% health thingy? and DK can recast to get it again, and recast to get it again? like 91 max incoming damage forever? If so, then yeh. poor DK dont need a nerf. maybe make Magma armor permanent.

Kypho

not hard to get 200 ultimate in MAX 20 sec, and magma is up for 11 sec lolz+ überheal and magma again. not speaking of DK dps. poor DK...

i wonder why no DK complain about it. 3% cap is too much damage. maybe 1% would be good.... DK is such a brainless class.... magma should cap at max 50% dmg reduction and not such crap.