Another option would be to make the Tank role less miserable to play... Maybe the low number of Tanks got something to do with the fact that it (might) just not be very fun to play. I think it's worth looking at.

[quote="xv1

This is an easy fix.

Slot a taunt and queue as tank.

Taunt all big stuff and help dps all trash/bosses while holding taunt.

Simple fact is not enough ppl play this game anymore. [/quote]

I actually have a DK tank which I created just for that purpose a while back. Figured I was part of the problem if I didn't. Was actually quite fun to play but why should I have to play a tank ALL the dang time for dungeons, too much of anything gets boring? It's not even the long queue times, I just go do other stuff while waiting, it's the constant getting kicked out the queue lately by just sneezing that is getting my socks in a wad.

Hence my post there has GOT to be a better way.

they could easily rework dungeons so it scales up to 12 players so it can grab more dps players.
im thinking 1 tank 2 healers and rest DPS.
this would seriously help elevate some of the DPS queue strains while leaving healer and tank desirable core roles.

Anonx31st wrote: »

Tanking in this game is boring and there is no incentives to que as a tank just so randoms can be toxic towards you.

Dont queue with randoms.

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

dsalter wrote: »

Thechuckage wrote: »

Additionally, separate PvE/PvP balance. Unkillable tank in dungeon or trial = Awesome! Unkillable tank in Cyro = BS class, NERF!!!

This goes hand in hand with no longer catering to DPS races. As long as mechanics can be bypassed by sufficient damage, tanks and healers will always be less desirable.

easy solution is to add a "undaunted spirit" buff to dungeons/trials and allow it to boost the role you are for dungeons/trials but ONLY in PvE dungeons/trials but also nerfing the role you arent signed up for.
tanks = more durability while in a dungeon (15% damage intake reduction. bonus healing taken from outside sources by 5% and blocking generates threat in an AoE over time but self healing and damage is reduced by 15%, which will encourage block holding during trash packs to help speed things up while stopping tank mode being the end all be all jack of trades they currently are.
healers = 10% bonus magicka+stamina regen and 10% bonus healing but reduced damage by 5% and increase block costs by 20% (to a minimum cost so normal healers wont be impacted by those trying to cheese build a tank healer will be impacted) so to discourage healers trying to be tank hybrids
DPS = 10% bonus damage+critical damage but 20% reduced self healing this will encourage DPS to stick to their role with only minor impact mainly to make it so the healer is relevant but self healing is still possible just not as brokenly strong that it currently is.

if PvP spirit seems to marginally work when tweak right an undaunted spirit would surely help control some of the issues most tank players fear which is aggro control and damage intake

There's a lot of dungeons where the role isn't that important though.

so buff up the dungeons accordingly.
not to hard to tweak some numbers making tanking more vital

ThePianist wrote: »

So I got in the mic and laughed good. A good 10 seconds of mocking laughter, “not with you” I said, then left.

But doesn't that make you a toxic player as well?

It sure doesn't help make things better...

What we need is a system where you list what you want to do which then appears in a big list of players so other players can come in and select to join a group if you see what you like or what you would like to get done too.... you know like every other game with a Lobby!

I'd like to try hard mode with a speed run for say FG1... maybe someone else needs that achievement too and can go yep I'm keen and then you can start and others can be auto filled if need be but when it gives someone a group it tells them this is the conditions.

OR

The other option is for the Devs to design Dungeons without the Holy Trinity (DPS x2, Healer & Tank), create a Dungeon experience that can be done with 4 dps or healer 3 dps and no dedicated tank but say a support role that must taunt but wont get hit with 50k one shots.

James-Wayne wrote: »

What we need is a system where you list what you want to do which then appears in a big list of players so other players can come in and select to join a group if you see what you like or what you would like to get done too.... you know like every other game with a Lobby!

I'd like to try hard mode with a speed run for say FG1... maybe someone else needs that achievement too and can go yep I'm keen and then you can start and others can be auto filled if need be but when it gives someone a group it tells them this is the conditions.

This is generally a good idea, especially for trials.

James-Wayne wrote: »

The other option is for the Devs to design Dungeons without the Holy Trinity (DPS x2, Healer & Tank), create a Dungeon experience that can be done with 4 dps or healer 3 dps and no dedicated tank but say a support role that must taunt but wont get hit with 50k one shots.

Thats not a good idea, because full tanks would be out of the window. You would end up being needed somewhere and questioned somewhere else. The dungeon system has to be consistant. Of course they could work on the one hit mechanics anyways because tanks are heavily influenced by them.

Brrrofski wrote: »

Thechuckage wrote: »

Additionally, separate PvE/PvP balance. Unkillable tank in dungeon or trial = Awesome! Unkillable tank in Cyro = BS class, NERF!!!

This goes hand in hand with no longer catering to DPS races. As long as mechanics can be bypassed by sufficient damage, tanks and healers will always be less desirable.

Unkillable tanks in PVE isn't awesome.

It makes tanking stupidly boring and too easy.

That's why I don't think nerfs to heavy armour/health based health/mitigation a bad thing.

You have to be more on your toes to tank, which makes the role more engaging.

It’s easy to say that from a non-tank perspective. The tanks I know certainly don’t want anymore apm engagement than it already is. If a certain player wants more engagement, they usually will main dps.

The eso community has millions of players, the tank population is less than 10% in my opinion. Tanks in top leaderboards are the top cream of the crop, the best of the best but I won’t compare them to the average Joe tank. The exception does not make the rule. Nefas, made a yt video addressing the tank problem and he’s correct in all points.

Out of the 3 trinity roles, if you mess up as a tank, the failure is more noticeable than a healer or dps that gets 1 shotted by a certain mechanic. A lot of people don’t want to experience something like that.

The dps delusion is also to criticize newbie tanks, while self-repeating their own psychosis of only maining dps because they themselves don’t want to get called out.

Correct me if I’m wrong, to those who have memories, but wasn’t 25k dps a thing when vmol came out? Then guilds started to ask for 40k dps, the same time stamina recovery while blocking was removed.

The same pattern continues. Everytime pve tanks get some kind of nerf, the dps bracket gets higher and higher.

In ps4 Na, raid guilds are asking for 70k dps, for all trials. 70k dps lmao, and guilds will have representatives to witness the parse on a 21 mil dummy. Are they insane? No, this is just the response to the increased roll dodge cost for wearing heavy armor.

“Because our tanks keep complaining about getting 1 shotted after roll dodging 2 times and depleting a 15k-20k stamina pool, while holding block, while debuffing, while taunting....we must increase the dps to compensate for this”- mentality

ZOS shound allow solo players to play group dungones and scale them accordingly.

Problem solved.

Xebov wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

Thechuckage wrote: »

Additionally, separate PvE/PvP balance. Unkillable tank in dungeon or trial = Awesome! Unkillable tank in Cyro = BS class, NERF!!!

This goes hand in hand with no longer catering to DPS races. As long as mechanics can be bypassed by sufficient damage, tanks and healers will always be less desirable.

Unkillable tanks in PVE isn't awesome.

It makes tanking stupidly boring and too easy.

That's why I don't think nerfs to heavy armour/health based health/mitigation a bad thing.

You have to be more on your toes to tank, which makes the role more engaging.

For starters being unkillable as a tank is the whole point of tanking. If you constantly die you are going nowhere.

You should have a look at the jobs tanks have to perform.
Many mechanics are one shot mechanics that require blocks and movement and as soon you go down the group is not far behind.
If you tank bosses for an extended amount of time because DDs deal not enought DPS you get called out by the DPS because you died while DDs think they can do whatever they want and their deaths are not as impactful and can be forgiven.
Tanks are seen as walking buff bots. I layed this out in the past. The expactation towards tanks is that they tank everything for as long as needed without any gear. Why? Because Tank gear is supposed to buff or help the group. If you advice beginenr tanks to use selfish gear to make their start a bit easier it takes 20s until someone comes around the corner telling them that selfish gear is not the way to go.

There are certain dungeons and trials that the main tank or off tank has to wear selfish gear due to their positioning and synergies like mystic orb can’t be reached. Plus, mystic orb speed has been nerfed, the slowest moving blue ball you’ll ever see.

I like to join hosted trials in craglorn and pug with random people. I tell them straight up, I’ll wear whatever you want me to wear as long as you slot something like mystic orb and throw that synergy my way when I need it.

Last week, I recently helped a guild progress in VSS and finally get their extinguisher of flame titles. The last boss hm was easier than the fire dragon hm. The fire dragon hm is where we had a lot of wipes due to tanks dying, dps not stacking, ect...

We also had bad rng, because the fire stack mechanic always showed up on the off tank who was not close to the group. I volunteered to switch to a tank when one of the tanks was starting to get fed up. I told to healers, count 1 to 10 in your head, and throw synergies my way and to the other tank. I also told the other tank to type “Hello” when you need synergies ASAP. It was a cakewalk from there on.

I see this happen a lot in VSS fire dragon boss. The first time the boss flies and lands, what causes the wipe? If people pay attention, it is not because the dps are out of position. It’s because the off tank is dead, or dropped taunt, or doesn’t have resources. And those Iron atro’s starts 1 shotting people. So if dps and healers wants tanks to wear this set and that set, it is also not a hard requirement that healers and dps throw synergies to their tanks.

There’s also certain buff sets that isn’t required in certain scenarios. No death runs for example, why do people want tanks to wear Yohl or Alkosh? I’ll link it in the chat to put your mind at peace but I’ll always wear juggernaut and battalion defender for no death runs lol.

So I’m in the gray area if tanks wants to wear selfish or buff sets. It depends on the group comp and whether or not people want to be cooperative or not.

Jeremy wrote: »

Veinblood1965 wrote: »

OK I've played healers and tanks and those are great almost instant queue but playing a dps and queuing just plain sucks. Waiting 20 to 30 minutes to get a group, or waiting that long and the system just unques you for no reason(this has happened a few times in the last week btw), or zoning and just as you zone you get the queue invite only to have it gone and you have to requeue again after you zone and so on and so on.

Something is broken with the group finder anyway. Last night i queued for Stone Garden normal. I waited about 40 minutes and nothing. I finally just soloed a normal dungeon and requed and within ten minutes had the invite. Then of all things my daily random ended up being Stone Garden right after that which was about a 20 minute wait.

Just tossing out some ideas here but anything is better than this as a DPS. (And yes I could play my healer or tank but this is my new toon). How about normal dungeon option with no healer or tank, just take your chances. I can pretty much solo most of those anyway except those that require a group like Direfrost due to mechanics etc. Or even two man option? Make the dungeons a little harder in that case. Not the best options I'll admit but this is getting OLD fast. I was semi fine with it until the bug started happening where you get unqueued for no reason at all just a BUG!.

RANT OVER now back to regularly scheduled programming.

It's because there is a severe shortage of players who play as tanks, even more so on this game than is usual for an MMORPG. They need to stop nerfing tanks, and start taking their problems seriously (like pets blocking their view so they can't watch for animations to block etc.). This game neglects tanks and actively works to make them secondary to DPS characters, so it really isn't any wonder when people stop playing them. Maybe when the precious DPS characters can't get into queues they will finally start taking this issue seriously and start paying some needed attention to tanks except when it comes to nerfing them so DPS classes can kill the more easily. Because that's usually the only time they pay any attention to them.

So keep threads like this coming.

Yup. I am down to my last tank from all the nerfs. (I used to have five.) Just easier to switch them over to dps so I can get stuff done.

My only disagreement is about the pets, maybe it’s because of the way I position my camera, but I have never had an issue with pets. I am not saying this is not an issue for some players, I am just saying I have never personally encountered it.

Zos just keeps making tanks QOL worse and worse, then people act surprised queue times keep going up.

They need to go back in time to when tanks were fun to play, but they won’t because of PvP complaints.