What was in the minds of the people who did this? Are any of them playing ESO?
Why do you annoy players and consumers?
Swapping Siege Shield and Rapid Maneuvers is the only correct solution.

At this point the only thing we can do is to make sure this issue is on the front page still.

Use /feedback in game to share your opinions.

Don't let the noise die down.

Be civil in the process, but the message should be firmly stated: Give Rapid Maneuver back to all of our alts.

I am actually missing it MORE now than before.

Recent real life events such as the passing of my mother made me have even less time to play ESO. This basically means spending seven hours per alt to get Rapids back is out of the question. The wall just seems to have gotten higher. Now it is behind a wall of anxiety, lack of motivation to do something I do not want to do and simply not having enough time to play ESO.

I stand by my word, I will restore my subscription IF Rapid Maneuver is returned to the way it was.

But if December comes and goes, and Rapid Maneuver is still behind that cursed wall, I will consider leaving ESO. Probably not join another MMO, but take a hiatus from the game. If Rapid Maneuver were to come back to requiring Assault 2 in a March 2021 update, maybe I will return then.

A good part of me does not want to leave ESO. Therefore, I will continue to make noise about my displeasure over this change until December if I have to.

It is an RPG, go have some RP fun in the game. There is no need to RP as a forum mod and constantly tell other people they are doing it wrong. And by “it” I mean literally everything.

doesurmindglow wrote: »

I'm a pretty avid PVPer that has no real issue with the change as it's basically nothing for me to grind my crafters/etc up to Assault 5, but:

I don't understand why Vigor and Rapids can't BOTH be the first skill you unlock, with Rapids in the Assault skill line where it used to be and Vigor in the Support skill line with all the rest of the heals.

Siege Shield could be bumped to the second or even third unlock (third would kinda make sense as pretty much no one but healers running with large groups in Cyro need it, and Purge could remain second as it's highly important to get), and Flare could move to somewhere in the Assault skill line, which would kinda make sense as you're rarely smoking an enemy out of hiding to "Support" rather than "Assault" them.

If they did it this way PVEers and others could unlock both Rapids and Vigor from the introductory quest, and PVPers would benefit similarly from having the two most important abilities available when they start in PVP.

Just my two cents.

This is my personal favorite idea. It would eliminate the controversy. Absolutely eliminate it.

Vigor would be more accessible to Stamina toons. Rapids would still be available to crafters and farmers that don't want to PVP for 7 hours to get it back. Siege Shield would require Assault 5, however it is already a skill that is used by PVPers so most would have it unlocked already.

Had they listened to that suggestion back in July, it would have saved a lot of people the trouble.

Another idea is if they just reduced the requirements for Rapid Maneuver to Assault 2.

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

JoeCapricorn wrote: »

At this point the only thing we can do is to make sure this issue is on the front page still.

Bumping old threads will get them locked, @JoeCapricorn.


You already have an existing thread in General Discussion that's still on page 1.

Though I should point out:

In the time you've been spending in the forums ... you could've had multiple characters with Assualt 5 by now.

Just by saying "bump" is probably not allowed, but continuing the discussion (and this thread is nowhere near that old if I could find it just a few pages back) certainly is. There is a merit to continuing the discussion, and this is simply another forum that developers might possibly come across. General Discussion is a rapidly changing discussion space, my thread there gets pushed to page 2 or 3 very quickly each day. Here, the whole purpose of this forum is for the developers to read the feedback on upcoming content and changes to the game. This is a more likely avenue for such a discussion to be read by the developers, so it makes sense to have a thread here as well.

A lot of people are reporting difficulty of getting rapids back through a variety of methods. It is a prime source of frustration and anger about this change and that is why it is important to keep this issue on the front page for the foreseeable future. Some people are unable to play PVP or Battlegrounds for a variety of reasons that I've seen mentioned. A few of the biggest ones are anxiety over competing with other players in any form, or some kind of physical disability that makes rapid reaction times more difficult. Empathizing with people who have stories like this is what ultimately convinced me to cancel my subscription and set the goalpost toward EARNING it back being restoring Rapid Maneuver to its prior requirements. ZOS has until December to do so.

It could even be as simple and easy as lowering the requirements for Rapid Maneuver to Assault 2, while keeping Vigor the way it is now. No one who wants Rapid Maneuver back is disputing about Vigor, we just want our old playstyle back. The solution seems so simple as well, it kinda boggles my mind that something (at the very least a statement or compromise) has not been done by now.

It might even be so easy that the next incremental patch restores Rapid Maneuver to the way it was. It would go a long way to restoring my faith in the developers because it shows they still listen and consider players' experiences. They would be helping someone who feels anxious about PVP because they are afraid of targeted harassment - sure, harassment is against the TOS, but the TOS does not stop someone whispering a player a slur in the first place. They would help those who have arthritis that cannot react fast enough to compete with other players in a PVP environment.

You are right, I probably COULD have regained rapids on one or two alts with the time I spent arguing about this. I just don't have the time (especially now with RL stuff going on) to do so, nor do I have the motivation to spend so much time doing so. At the moment, I am content to coast along with all of my alts being parked in Alinor or Vivec (with one in Solitude) while my main (who has Rapids) gets to frolic about Tamriel like the fashionably smexy vampire Argonian he is on the latest Indrik mount.

I wrote a long letter once again in the hopes that it might be read. I am still hoping for a response from someone who isn't a forum moderator on this topic.

In short I explained how this change was difficult to ignore and difficult to adapt to.

Anxiety plays a large role in how I approach the game. PVP simply gives me anxiety, so I opt to not do it. Spending hours of time per alt to regain a quality-of-life skill does not appeal to me and only makes me frustrated. I know there are many players out there that feel the same way.

I am not going to pay real money to get back something I had for free for 6 years. Unfortunately, there are many users who will, and it is looking like the prime motivation for even touching Rapid Maneuver to begin with was to encourage players to spend money for either Alliance skill unlocks or the new consumables that level the Alliance skill line quicker.

There is a good way for ZOS to prove that theory wrong. All they have to do is switch Rapid Maneuver with Siege Shield, or just lower the requirements to Assault 2 (or even 3, I'll accept 3 at this point). It would settle the issue once and for all and we can all finally move on.

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

Your taxi to PvP is the group finder for Battlegrounds. When a fight is ready you go straight to the action.

End open world PvP with all its exploits and move all PvP into battlegrounds.

TBH, I find battlegrounds is probably more suited for my kids... they tend to have less patience, and want immediate returns. I actually like Cyro for the tactical side of things as well as the battles. It might just be due to my advancing years, but I suppose it does take a degree of attention span in Cyro Vs Battlegrounds. Each to their own!!

new player. can't stand PVP, not built for it, don't enjoy it. Saw multiple noob guides stressing how good it is to get this and I finally go through a pvp match to get it and... don't. Because apparently, you decided to randomly swap it with another skill? That feels really ***, how many rounds of a game mode I don't want to play do I have to sit through(and ruin for a team because I'm not good at or geared for it) in order to get an overworld QOL skill?

bump awful change is still awful and im thrilled to see so many people Hate the change.


nobody wants to fight pvp focused characters or grind ages at fixing walls/doors for a quality of life skill.

the only people that like this change and the min-max pvp'ers that enjoy stomping low level players forced into pvp by awful change.

to think i spent so much time and money on this game for this lousy change to spoil the fun

Why lock it, it's a valid discussion still.

Forcedminer wrote: »

bump awful change is still awful and im thrilled to see so many people Hate the change.


nobody wants to fight pvp focused characters or grind ages at fixing walls/doors for a quality of life skill.

the only people that like this change and the min-max pvp'ers that enjoy stomping low level players forced into pvp by awful change.

to think i spent so much time and money on this game for this lousy change to spoil the fun

Also with the changes to healers having to be grouped, they've made it so that PvErs who just want to level up enough to get the skill can't even zerg surf with a resto for the time it takes.

That's how I got vigor on my very first toon when I got bored with repairing walls before the swap.

Araneae6537 wrote: »

go to Cyrodill and do the PvE type quests in the towns.

At 250-350 AP per quest, to earn 98,000 AP for Alliance Rank 5....... on up to 16 characters?



Ok......

Pixative wrote: »

Araneae6537 wrote: »

words

I ended up spending about 8 hours repairing walls in between running around for skyshards. It was expensive and excruciatingly boring. The only time I saw enemy players was when they ganked me randomly in a pack. BTW, those town quests are SLOWER than repairing walls in terms of gaining AP. Repairing actually would have been a multi day project if A) I hadn't found cheap repair kits at guild stores and I hadn't incidentally picked up capture/defense/daily mission XP from other people fighting while I repaired.

What you typed is from the perspective of someone who already got theirs and enjoys and understands PVP and that makes it irrelevant to the people who don't like this change. That "learning process" you mentioned is called frustration, and it has negative value when it's something you don't have any interest in learning and something you need is locked behind it.

Sorry man, it's a shame you didn't do that leveling during the tests. 45 mins to get enough ap to get rapids with double ap and a bit of luck with attack/defence ticks.

It's a shame that you say you have no interest in pvp. It can be very rewarding. I have a similar view of pve because the more advanced stuff is gated behind have you got x or y and 100k dps