Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Stamplars are over performing right now. Making Power of the Light undodgeable is a strong buff for them (as well as another nerf to medium armor). Yes they're survivability took a hit but considering how strong they are offensively the change is more than fair.

Ummmm I don't think that's how balancing works.

stamplar is gonna be the only class that can enjoy free stam from repentence. that's the only plus i can think of.

CyrusArya wrote: »

Stamplar will be fine. As someone who mains stamplar atm, I'm very excited. This is because stamplar runs medium the best of any class due to the rune and free major savagery. Furthermore, stamplar damage is quite good. A world full of light and medium armor targets is one where stamina templar will thrive.

StamWarden would love to have a word with you. It's almost the same as Stamplar sans Jabs / POTL, but better. Just look at the Warden morphs; http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/2017/04/13/warden-guide-skill-lines-and-abilities

The net loss on Repentance, the loss of Major Mending, while will not 'kill' the class, they certainly will be out-classed by Warden.

Stamplar is probably the best stam brawler at the moment. I don't think this will be the case once Morrowind drops.

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Stamplars are over performing right now. Making Power of the Light undodgeable is a strong buff for them (as well as another nerf to medium armor). Yes they're survivability took a hit but considering how strong they are offensively the change is more than fair.

No.

Ok now that that's out of the way, the mending change is terrible. My favorite part of the notes was the part about buffing the mending passive to offset the loss of major mending. Yea that helps stamplars, thanks for that ZOS.

All Templars are less viable. The nerf hammer wrecked this class. No major mending, no group utility from repentance, and shards are on cooldown with orbs. They got smashed.

I'm very worried as a stamplar. Dropping cleansing ritual and vigor was basically my way to survive against dizzying swing, dragon leap etc., Rune focus is absolutely terrible for stamplar in PvP (If you stop moving in medium armor, your dead) losing 5% cost reduction for a 5 piece medium armor doesn't help. I've played stamplar as my main for the last 9-10 months. Hopefully these patch notes will be revised. It seems like instead of improvements, we just get bad news every 3 months. Meanwhile sorcs are completely untouched. A 0.2 animation blending time isn't going to do anything

SnubbS wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

StamDK is bad on live?! What is this?!

I can't tell if you're trolling right now. It isn't bad in the grand scope of the game—but it does not compare favorably to other Stambuilds. The passives are lack luster, the active skills just aren't up to par with the other classes'—can I get a cost comparison between Fear and Fossilize? Because it's a damn crime if Fear costs less.

It's really telling that you can take any build that you run on StamDK—just bolt it to a StamSorc and have better damage, better healing and better sustain. You lose straightup tankiness, but in my opinion you'll at least make up a bit of that through mobility. The best thing StamDK has going for it right now is the Dodge-roll>Igneous>Vigor combo and Igneous partially eating the next attack—helps not being executed at times. I don't feel like that plus point is better than just base damage increases, or having a skill as good as Dark Deal.

You are the one trolling Stam DK are in a correct spot right now.

They are definitely not the worst class, that's the Nightblade.

Major mending being gone is really bad for both mag and stam templars. But one thing I've notice is zos talks about balancing....templars are still the only class that an ability doesn't give them major brutality or sorcery...how is that balance? Now no major mending.....yeah not fair. Yet they make it possible for the warden to get every major buff in the game "p2w" i think stamplars will be average at best in pvp if it's a great player using them.

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

SnubbS wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

StamDK is bad on live?! What is this?!

I can't tell if you're trolling right now. It isn't bad in the grand scope of the game—but it does not compare favorably to other Stambuilds. The passives are lack luster, the active skills just aren't up to par with the other classes'—can I get a cost comparison between Fear and Fossilize? Because it's a damn crime if Fear costs less.

It's really telling that you can take any build that you run on StamDK—just bolt it to a StamSorc and have better damage, better healing and better sustain. You lose straightup tankiness, but in my opinion you'll at least make up a bit of that through mobility. The best thing StamDK has going for it right now is the Dodge-roll>Igneous>Vigor combo and Igneous partially eating the next attack—helps not being executed at times. I don't feel like that plus point is better than just base damage increases, or having a skill as good as Dark Deal.

I agree with Fengrush. Stamdk is already amazing, tankiness is stamdk's selling point.

Then their selling point is complete trash—how will myth continue?. It isn't like Dodge Roll>Igneous>Vigor is that good—it's a cool little thing do sometimes—you know what's a lot more effective? Streaking behind a tree to LoS, Purifying the dots/poisons off you—or cloaking the dots.

Like okay—StamDK, your classes selling point is "Tankiness" that's what you're supposed to be. You're the "Tanky" class—they're not that tanky. If you're specced into damage—they aren't that much Tankier than the other StamClasses. Like, please try to prove me wrong on this. Stamplar is very, very nearly as Tanky as StamDK—and the other classes have ways of avoiding the damage that StamDK would take if in similar scenarios.

Kay1 wrote: »

SnubbS wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

StamDK is bad on live?! What is this?!

I can't tell if you're trolling right now. It isn't bad in the grand scope of the game—but it does not compare favorably to other Stambuilds. The passives are lack luster, the active skills just aren't up to par with the other classes'—can I get a cost comparison between Fear and Fossilize? Because it's a damn crime if Fear costs less.

It's really telling that you can take any build that you run on StamDK—just bolt it to a StamSorc and have better damage, better healing and better sustain. You lose straightup tankiness, but in my opinion you'll at least make up a bit of that through mobility. The best thing StamDK has going for it right now is the Dodge-roll>Igneous>Vigor combo and Igneous partially eating the next attack—helps not being executed at times. I don't feel like that plus point is better than just base damage increases, or having a skill as good as Dark Deal.

You are the one trolling Stam DK are in a correct spot right now.

They are definitely not the worst class, that's the Nightblade.

"StamDK are in a correct" Spot—that's the important bit. My reply to this is it depends. Something has to be the worst—and StamDK happens to be the worst. But it isn't that bad. I've said this before—it's not like the class is unplayable because it definitely isn't. You can get kills, you can 1vX—but, it's just subpar to its closest comparison—StamSorc. There's simply not enough separation between those two classes. Here's a though experiment. Let's say there are three Stam classes in ESO. Stamplar, StamSorc, StamNB. They all have distinct playstyles—two of them have class spammables, the other has the advantage of Mobility+Extra healing+Great Sustain. So you're kind of pidgenholed into using either 2h or 1h/S as your spammables—but this is balanced by the fact that you get all these great passives and utility skills. This is the argument against giving Sorcs the 'StamFrag' morph. Because they have so many great skills/passives already that they're in a really good spot without it. If they had 'StamFrag' it would be too much.

Enter StamDK—let's pretend StamDK just got inserted into the game—this is the new class, everyone. You have a class that plays most closely to a StamSorc—except your passives are worse, your healing is worse, your active skills are worse, you have lower damage, and no mobility—but don't worry guys, it's balanced because a few times before you die you might be able to hit Igneous for a 2k damage shield so you can avoid the next crit.

The classes simply do not compare—that's why the only response I ever recieve is "WUT, STAMDK IS GREAT MAN!" Because when you look at the numbers, and when you evaluate scenarios it just does not compare favorably.

After Morrowind drops StamDK will be the fifth Stamclass. Actually, maybe the patch after Morrowind is when StamDK will get a real solid look—because StamWarden is looking Tankier than StamDK on paper. StamWarden in my opinion is looking better than StamDK right now and that's pre-battleroar, helping hands, igneous nerf.

Literally, every class in the game has a unique playstyle apart from StamDK—our one unique thing is Molten Armaments—maybe that's the Meta next patch and I'm just too blind to see it. An argument could definitely be made for it—but I'm talking about right now on live.

acw37162 wrote: »

What happened to the Templars house?

its an out house now and they s%^& in it bigtime

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

SnubbS wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

SnubbS wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

StamDK is bad on live?! What is this?!

I can't tell if you're trolling right now. It isn't bad in the grand scope of the game—but it does not compare favorably to other Stambuilds. The passives are lack luster, the active skills just aren't up to par with the other classes'—can I get a cost comparison between Fear and Fossilize? Because it's a damn crime if Fear costs less.

It's really telling that you can take any build that you run on StamDK—just bolt it to a StamSorc and have better damage, better healing and better sustain. You lose straightup tankiness, but in my opinion you'll at least make up a bit of that through mobility. The best thing StamDK has going for it right now is the Dodge-roll>Igneous>Vigor combo and Igneous partially eating the next attack—helps not being executed at times. I don't feel like that plus point is better than just base damage increases, or having a skill as good as Dark Deal.

I agree with Fengrush. Stamdk is already amazing, tankiness is stamdk's selling point.

Then their selling point is complete trash—how will myth continue?. It isn't like Dodge Roll>Igneous>Vigor is that good—it's a cool little thing do sometimes—you know what's a lot more effective? Streaking behind a tree to LoS, Purifying the dots/poisons off you—or cloaking the dots.

Like okay—StamDK, your classes selling point is "Tankiness" that's what you're supposed to be. You're the "Tanky" class—they're not that tanky. If you're specced into damage—they aren't that much Tankier than the other StamClasses. Like, please try to prove me wrong on this. Stamplar is very, very nearly as Tanky as StamDK—and the other classes have ways of avoiding the damage that StamDK would take if in similar scenarios.

Well we all know that stamsorc is the best stam class right now, but it doesn't make stamDK "trash". Your argument is like "Stamsorc is better, so it means Stamdk is trash", well, that's not how things work.

StamDK's tankiness comes from igneous shield, major mending, and ult regen. You totally forgot about ult regen. Stamplar is not as tanky as stamdk, even with major mending, and don't let me even think about stamblade.

Honestly you are the first person to say "Stamdk is trash". Have never seen something like that in my life. Every player I have seen has said that stamdk is good. Every single one. You are the only one who said stamdk is not tanky and stamdk is trash. Well, yes, you can build a squishy stamdk, and you can even build a tanky stamblade if you want to, but that's your choice, in general the tankiest stamblade cannot be as tanky as the tankiest stamdk.

"Well we all know that stamsorc is the best stam class right now, but it doesn't make stamDK "trash". Your argument is like "Stamsorc is better, so it means Stamdk is trash", well, that's not how things work."

WRONG.

When you have two classes which have nearly identical playstyles, and one is just better than the other in every measurable way apart from spell resistance and an ulti gen passive—no it literally does work that way.

"StamDK's tankiness comes from igneous shield, major mending, and ult regen. You totally forgot about ult regen. Stamplar is not as tanky as stamdk, even with major mending, and don't let me even think about stamblade.

Ulti-gen doesn't make you tankier unless you're using Corrosive/SnB ult. I'm really failing to understand where you're going with this—StamSorc also has ulti cost reduction, which is usually better in my opinion. Standard Dawnbreaker cost is 125, it's 107 on StamSorc—so you'd have to proc the ulti-gen passive six times in between ults to get the same ult back. Another way of looking at it is that StamSorc just gets the effect of that passive proccing 6 times permanently. You're also relying on Magicka skills to proc it, unlike Stamplar where you can get the same passive by casting a great ability (Power Of the Light) which costs stam, and is a skill you'd be casting constantly anyway. Oh, and Templar has reduced ulti-cost as well. The great StamDK ulti-gen you were talking about—it's a myth.

"Honestly you are the first person to say "Stamdk is trash". Have never seen something like that in my life. Every player I have seen has said that stamdk is good. Every single one. You are the only one who said stamdk is not tanky and stamdk is trash. Well, yes, you can build a squishy stamdk, and you can even build a tanky stamblade if you want to, but that's your choice, in general the tankiest stamblade cannot be as tanky as the tankiest stamdk."

StamDK isn't trash—I didn't say that—you pointed out their "Selling point" and I said that their selling point was trash—because it is trash. The class itself isn't bad enough in the scope of the game to be called straight up trash—I mained it for 7 months, it's not unplayable, nor is it particularly hard to play and that's probably why everyone sees it as a viable class. I also didn't say it wasn't Tanky—I said it wasn't 'That' Tanky after saying(or implying, I forget) it was the Tankiest class. You're missing a very important point though—"Tankiness" doesn't matter anywhere near as much as 'Survivability.' If you can avoid a hit, that's a lot better than taking one. Also, you brought up MajorMending—which is directly related to healing. StamSorc has more healing, Surge is better than MajorMending. It never ends—honestly the list of skills & passives that just outclass StamDK it just doesn't stop.

You keep trying to insinuate that StamNB isn't a good class in this meta—and you're just so wrong in that statement. The only reason anyone even thinks this is because StamNB actually does have a learning curve to it. It isn't the easiest class to play—it's the opposite issue that StamDK has. StamDK is quite straightforward—it's more about learning the 2h animation cancels than really anything with the class. StamNB is the opposite—I'm not going to pretend it's the hardest thing in the world—but I do feel like there's a higher skill-gap with NB, and a higher ceiling for effectiveness in open world. That's just my opinion, and I could be wrong on it. StamDK though—I'll argue about this for the next 7 months unless Heavy Attack builds become a viable thing in Morrowind.