Stop this "year long story line" trend

Lyserus

I can honestly tell that the story and map contents are getting worse each year
1. Story wise, the story has become so predictable that it is no longer interesting (the Greymoor story especially, dare I say it's to the point of sickening). The year long structure makes it even worse as we can even tell what happens at each story zone (the entire zone is doomed->find second boss in chapter->kill second boss in chapter->big boss got away->big boss get defeated in story dlc)
2. Map wise, we are seeing less and less actual playable content (and ZOS is using giant camp and reach clans etc to fill up the space but they actually don't have any actual contents). The delves design is boring (no way to compare with say the summerset ones). This is the result of a fixed structure and streamlined approach to new contents, it's like rolling out chicken legs for KFC.
3. dungeon dlcs could be about anything...and now they have to "fit in' the chapter story, which more often than not doesn't' make sense story-wise

The Triad arc (Morrowind->Clockwork->Summerset) was the peak of ESO story, and Murkmire was a nice breather with a single zone adventure (like the old days guild ones), but it start to go downhill from there with the year long story

If I am to summarize this "year long story" trend, it's going to be "lazy". ZOS seems to think this structure can provide the most "stable" enconomy and the task quota is easier to manage, but it is really hurting the gameplay

Wise_Will

No, this is fine

I rather enjoy it, though Greymoor was a bit of a disappointment imo. I do not like the Dungeon DLC's and would rather have more quests etc, but i know that would be selfish. The point of the Year long is so they can make something for everyone. i think it is fairly balanced.

zvavi

Yes, it's time to stop

I rather enjoy it, though the dlc dungeons were a bit of a disappointment imo. I do not like overland and would rather have more group content arenas etc, but I know that would be selfish. The point of the year long is so they can make something for everyone. I think it is fairly balanced.


That's it for the content release wise, story wise, I would 100% prefer them to stop with the year long story thing. Compare the story in previous dlc dungeons to the new ones, the old ones are so much better. MoS SCP FL are all so good. DoM and FV are good too but the forced connection to the tablets makes the story so much worse of what it could have been.

Tommy_The_Gun

No, this is fine

After Morrowind and Elsweyr if each playable race won't recive a year on the pedestal - it will be very unfair. Some races already had it, while others did not. Even this year won't focus on a single race, but rather it will be a mixture...

Sylvermynx

No, this is fine

I like it.

Lintashi

Yes, it's time to stop

I like full story arcs not being pushed into one year. I really liked Morrowind-Clockwork-Summerset arc. Year long stories are becoming too similar. Same amount of delves, bosses, etc. Same achievements, similar mechanics and titles. And yes, even though I never tested it on pts, I bet, that main boss will escape "somewhere" at the end of chapter's questline, only to be killed or eliminated in q4 dlc.

Fata1moose

No, this is fine

I like it it gives the developers an easier workflow given artists aren’t having to produce as many assets in a given year. Anything that can relieve crunch is good.

The one thing I do miss is smaller scale story arcs, because of the yearlong plot they’re naturally encouraged to do more grandiose things but I’d love some lower stakes plot lines and some more Dark Brotherhood/Thieves guild content.

Thechuckage

Yes, it's time to stop

Given a less constrained timeline, the stories could be more fully fleshed out and explored. As it stands now, the timeline forces everything tighter, gives writers less room to maneuver.

The contrast between single player ES games and ESO was made a while back. Single player is less broad but DEEP. ESO is broad but shallow. Yearlong stories just make it even more shallow. And not terribly broader.

Chaos2088

Yes, it's time to stop

I dont like the trend of smaller DLC zones, like this year the Deadlands is it, even tho im super hyped for the zone.

But the lack of content it will have will be disappointing. No grp dungeon, only two delves and two world bosses.

Just dont like the smaller zones.

VaranisArano

It's a win for ZOS. They get to create one style of assets, reuse voice actors, reuse music, reuse monsters, and the Marketing Department gets to focus on a clear visual story.

It is noticeably easier for them than the old style of two distinct zones + unrelated dungeons with their own theme.

Unfortunately, that ease also comes with a certain amount of lower effort.

One place where this sticks out to me is the JusticdSystem. I like to steal in Orsinium, because the buildings are intertwined and interconnected. It feels like someone had fun putting together the details. In newer content, we see a lot more locked doors and places that are basically "window dressing." Nobody spent the time to do interiors because they assumed that players wouldn't bother.
Morrowind started the trend with amazing looking Dwemer ruins that when you get closer, it turns out that a landslide blocks you from entering the door. These Chapters are big zones that look cool, but on closer inspection, it's clear that ZOS has cut back on the details and the craftsmanship of the playable areas.

In short, I don't like the year-long story lines, but it's not going to change.

ealdwin

Yes, it's time to stop

If they could find a way to do more region specific, small scale stories than it wouldn't be a problem. But the issue I'm seeing with the "year of __" is that the "___" part keeps being a huge, looming threat that threatens all of Tamriel. Its as if the very nature of having 2 zones appear in a year necessitates that the threat be not only cross-zone, but also cross-Tamriel. As long as that trend continues to be the case, then the "year of ___" direction is going to continue getting worn out.

JoDiMageio

Yes, it's time to stop

Please, pretty please... More linked content, over more time.

The Daedric wars was a good arc, and it was over many good releases. I don't see why they couldn't do a hybrid of the two - year long stories but that also have some kind of arc linking them together. It would require one extra level of "thinking / content / storyboarding" that would be above the year long stories, and I think that would make enough of a difference to make it more enjoyable.

Anyron

Yes, it's time to stop

As long as cash flows they doesnt need to do anything.
Its up to you customer to stop buying overpriced dlcs and [Snip] stuff

[Edited for bashing]

Lugaldu

No, this is fine

I like the concept of a story that extends over the whole year. But the story must not feel artificially drawn out.

Elsonso

No, this is fine

Lyserus wrote: »

I can honestly tell that the story and map contents are getting worse each year
1. Story wise, the story has become so predictable that it is no longer interesting (the Greymoor story especially, dare I say it's to the point of sickening). The year long structure makes it even worse as we can even tell what happens at each story zone (the entire zone is doomed->find second boss in chapter->kill second boss in chapter->big boss got away->big boss get defeated in story dlc)
2. Map wise, we are seeing less and less actual playable content (and ZOS is using giant camp and reach clans etc to fill up the space but they actually don't have any actual contents). The delves design is boring (no way to compare with say the summerset ones). This is the result of a fixed structure and streamlined approach to new contents, it's like rolling out chicken legs for KFC.

I agree with the sentiment, but do not think it has anything to do with year long chapters. If they dropped year long chapters and went back to that arc you mentioned, my guess is that the new arc would reflect both of the above.

markulrich1966

No, this is fine

After I was somewhat disappointed with western skyrim, I actually really enjoyed the Reach.

I think it nice to add some content some months later to cover the long winter.

I however would be ok with dropping the dungeons in favour for stability improvements and bugfixes.

Pelirockjo

Oh look, it's Tuesday again.

Danikat

I don't think the year long stories are the problem necessarily, the problem is it's become too formulaic, as someone said not just the same type of releases and the same format to the story but the same number of delves, world bosses etc. in each map.

Removing the year long story wouldn't necessarily change that; if they're still under pressure to stick to a rigid schedule (even when they admitted in advance that because of the pandemic they can't do as much this year) and still wanting to keep all the elements the writers have to write about exactly the same for each release it's still going to be fairly predictable.

What I'd prefer is more variety in general. I liked that earlier on the DLC was more varied, Orsinium was basically a chapter with a new map, storyline, new feature (Maelstrom Arena) but Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood were different to anything we've gotten since then with small maps and stories focused more on a guild and a skill line than the location, Imperial City of course was completely unique as a primarily PvP DLC and then they started doing dungeon DLC alongside other types.

I suspect part of the reason they started doing year long stories is because people like me who don't play dungeons very much just didn't bother getting the dungeon DLC. If it's a stand alone storyline in a game mode I don't play as much there's no reason to buy it. I think tying them into the zone DLCs was an attempt to make story focused players feel like they needed the dungeon DLC as well.

It didn't work for me, trying to get a group who understand that you want to not only check off the points to get the quest reward but actually listen to and follow the storyline and are willing to let you do that can be more hassle than completing the dungeon, and I'm not going to want to keep doing the dungeon after that so it's not worth paying for. Especially since the game has almost not continuity between content - the NPCs don't know or care if your character actually did the dungeon, it doesn't change anything if you skip it so there's no need to play it.

But I'm sure being told it's part of the same storyline convinces some people it's worth buying those DLCs as well. (It might be intended to do the opposite for subscribers too - convince them that having started the storyline in the dungeon DLC it's worth paying for the chapter to carry it on now instead of waiting a year.)

MattVH

Yes, it's time to stop

I wish either Q1 or Q3 would be replaced for something that is not set-in-stone. Maybe one of the yearly quarters would be better spent by looking around more. Maybe even at existing/older zones and systems. Maybe I'm spoiled but it's getting tougher getting excited about content that's got the same general template.

To be more on-topic; I don't mind a year long story, but it shouldn't have to be every quarter. And i'd really like more isolated stories with less global doom.

MattVH

Yes, it's time to stop

Fata1moose wrote: »

I like it it gives the developers an easier workflow given artists aren’t having to produce as many assets in a given year. Anything that can relieve crunch is good.

The one thing I do miss is smaller scale story arcs, because of the yearlong plot they’re naturally encouraged to do more grandiose things but I’d love some lower stakes plot lines and some more Dark Brotherhood/Thieves guild content.

My vote was different but I do sympathize with why this schedule is probably there indeed. The amount of new content that is there is being released at a very impressive rate. I'd take more variety/creativity over the current quantity, IF that was an option though.

I agree about smaller (guild) stories.

Celephantsylvius_Bornasfinmo

Yes, it's time to stop

I agree that Greymoor was a let down and Markarth seems rather empty both visually and content wise and was perhaps only created for the solo arena content which I haven't done yet as none of the equipment really suits my gaming style (no stam character and no use for it in no proc pvp).

Both additions feel a bit watered down and rushed and also lack grounding in relation to the rest of Tamriel's stories.

I suppose it's the norm of our times..things go quickly, things are rushed and we spend less time on the details because we assume demand is high. Who knows, perhaps this trend will change and patience will become a thing again!

Sturmfaenger

I also liked the Morrowind-Clockwork-Summerset Arc.

There's nothing against stories that take longer than one chapter or the autumn dlc, but if they were told a bit more loosely interwoven, it would be easier to bring a refreshing "something else" in between. I am not muuuch of an argonian and swamp fan, but I really liked the murkmire dlc with its own short story arc and exoticness, and it would even not be too complicated to take up elements of such a story to weave into another one a few chapters or dlcs later.

But thats theory. I guess we're stuck with that yearlong model, reasons why ZOS likes it have been posted before. I don't think they will stray from it any time soon.

Edit:
Considering that Greymoore and Markarth were made during a pandemic they are quite good, it must have been difficult to do all that from homeoffice.

TX12001rwb17_ESO

Yes, it's time to stop

Before dungeons were not connected to a story but now it feels wierd doing a dungeon like Frostfault and finding one half of the Wraithstone even though I did Elsweyr more then a year ago.

Supreme_Atromancer

No, this is fine

Lyserus wrote: »

I can honestly tell that the story and map contents are getting worse each year
1. Story wise, the story has become so predictable that it is no longer interesting (the Greymoor story especially, dare I say it's to the point of sickening). The year long structure makes it even worse as we can even tell what happens at each story zone (the entire zone is doomed->find second boss in chapter->kill second boss in chapter->big boss got away->big boss get defeated in story dlc)

I like the year-long arcs.

(warning: the post contains some Orsinium and Western Skyrim story spoilers!)

If the story isn't interesting, that's a question of writing, not cadence or theme. To be honest, there's some absolutely amazing writing in some parts. If anything, perhaps in the future the stories would be more compelling if they relied less on formula a bit. Also, we're adults - give us some of that classic Elder Scrolls grit! - Tamriel is an Arena of conflict. We don't need everyone to be happy happy friends at the end of every chapter - conflict and competing, compelling perspectives, and intrigue make for far more interesting stories. The year of Skyrim's finale was so boring because they forced this lovey-dovey bff yay daddy Jorunn is making everything better stuff - completely ignoring literal years of story build-up, tension and even lore because Disney endings must happen at all costs.

For lore, the remote possibility that Basrag might seriously consider withdrawing from the Daggerfall Covenant was one of the most interesting outcomes ZOS has ever done, even if they didn't commit to it. It recognises the tone of the story and offers people something to actually be interested in. I really hope that in the future they see the value in that.

3. dungeon dlcs could be about anything...and now they have to "fit in' the chapter story, which more often than not doesn't' make sense story-wise

Well, although they have to broadly fit the theme, the stories are often only tangentially related to the main thrust of the story. Think about Castle Thorn, Lair of Maarselok, e.g., they have the same elements, but there's a lot of freedom to do their own thing. As to the delves, I can't disagree more strongly. I think they've done an absolutely amazing job with them, especially when compared with base game. They are no longer just a place to race through to get your shard and achieve and get out - they are convoluted and interesting to explore. The architecture in each one is absolutely gorgeous and I love spending time working out all the twisted passages. Also, I wanted to give a shoutout to whoever it was who thought to do cool things like link Overworld parts of the zone to the blackreach sections - or, for e.g., making King's Haven Pass delve in Summerset an actual pass that would otherwise be difficult to traverse. It proves they are putting thought into their world and I absolutely love that they did it.

But yeah - I don't see anything inherently wrong with the concept of the year-long themes - its a cool concept - we get a cliff-hanger, and each year has given us the opportunity with the 4th quarter to see a kind of "flip side" of the world we are exploring, and I like that. If it also helps their work process, then awesome. I do get the points you make though, and agree they are valid to discuss in their own light, but I don't think the two have to be necessarily linked.

Lugaldu

No, this is fine

Talking about the inclusion of the dungeons in the story is also bittersweet from the standpoint of the solo players - you always have the feeling that you are missing part of that big year-long story (and the way it looks so far, the companions will not help either).

Supreme_Atromancer

No, this is fine

Lugaldu wrote: »

Talking about the inclusion of the dungeons in the story is also bittersweet from the standpoint of the solo players - you always have the feeling that you are missing part of that big year-long story (and the way it looks so far, the companions will not help either).

Yeah, and some of the best writing, even in base game stuff, comes from the dungeons. Rejoice that companions are on their way. You should never have to miss story again!

xaraan

No, this is fine

I'm fine with the year long story concept, though I don't disagree with most of the individual points of OP. I didn't care for the whole 3 parts of story spread out across several chapters/years and would rather it be focused in the year long release. Though the dungeons wouldn't really have to connect, but it's fine if they do.

The trend I don't like with the year long story is that they are locking part of the story of the DLC players pay for and 3 skill points behind the paywall of buying the chapter, either with ESO+ or outright buy. This doesn't effect me because I buy the chapters, but I think it's a pretty shady practice.

When the game went B2P/ESO+ we were told we'd get 4 pieces of content a year. That became 3 pieces of content when chapters rolled out and you pay for the 4th piece separately. Now it's become 2 and a partial third and you get the rest of the 3rd piece if you buy that 4th piece separately Not liking the trend of getting less and less.

Which brings me to the point of content OP discussed. They are correct in that it feels like, no matter how "big" the zones are size wise, it feels like we've gotten less and less actual content each year. Which is concerning when you think about the points Varanis brought up earlier in this thread in that they save time and cost re-using assets and actors and have a tighter creation timeline by combining the story the way they do. It should allow them to give us more with the same amount of work, not less.

Ceejengine

Yes, it's time to stop

Definitely put a damper on the churn. I'd like to see new mechanics instead of new skins on old stuff with a fresh coat of paint.
World Bosses -> Dragons
Dolmens -> Harrowstorms

Companions look absolutely amazing. I hope so,so badly that it works out and they start pumping out companions by the dozen. Especially of we get non-men/mer options like Caska from the dragon guard.

Dragons should've been a continent-wide threat that has a % chance to appear in any zone. As soon as one spawns in say, Deshaan, it instantly flies across the zone, incinerating (or freezing, shocking, necrofying) the land. Traders and NPCs run for cover, no longer offering any services and powerful dragon servants spawn all over the place.

Then the dragon just finds players and tries to kill them. Give them 30m+ health. You need to call on guildies and people from other zones to end the nightmare.

As they are right now, these NPCs talk about how scary it is but you can just tell em "Dude if you don't wanna deal with dragons, just don't go to the 3-6 empty arena-like fields that are clearly pre-set locations for dragon fights."

Or Harrowstorms. Each time someone dies to a Harrowstorm, its border should increase and more mobs spawn.

I'd really like to see them take a second pass at what is and is not included in the base game. Especially something like companions. There are so many awesome side character thatd I'd love to recruit from old story zones.

I understand they need to attract new players constantly and new zones is the only way to do that, but man I would not mind if they took an entire year just looking back at pre-existing stuff and improving it.

Like get the game as-is to a rock solid experience, then make new stuff from there.

Bradyfjord

No, this is fine

I'm mixed. I am okay with the current standardized release schedule. I do want quality, and waiting a little more for more/better quality/quantity releases would be worth it.

I'm thinking skipping a year is reasonable.

AVaelham

Yes, it's time to stop

The Daedric War arc was indeed the peak of Elder Scrolls Online's story and it was well executed, with enemies lurking in the background for a long while and a mid-story DLC (Clockwork City) that left you wanting to know what happens next.

With the current yearly system, I feel like one or two acts of the whole arc is missing and the Chapter serves mainly as an introduction to allies or your main villain instead of having bigger story bits. Sure, Morrowind was also introductory, but its story was self-contained to the island and was directly linked to the plot, it wasn't used as a setup for the Q4 DLC who has bigger stakes than the actual Chapter.

So far both Markarth and Southern Elsweyr have proven to be far more interesting and fleshed out than their respective chapter and that shouldn't happen.

Having a story arc that spans multiple chapters with stand-alone DLCs in-between is the base scenario tbh. If the really want to continue with this year of X story they should switch the DLCs around, have a introductory to the arc DLC in Q1, Dungeon DLC in Q2, the Chapter in Q3 and then another dungeon DLC that could be related to the story or not. Having the story end in a small size DLC feels weird.

And yes, we need more down-to-earth storylines, like in Abah's Landing or Orsinium.There's plenty of political conflict and tension that could fuel compelling stories, we don't need a Tamriel-wide invasion that is contained only to Chapter zone every single year. Going back to the Morrowind-CWC-Summerset arc, even if it was a Tamriel-wide invasion, it actually felt Tamriel-wide and not a local issue.

generalmyrick

No, this is fine

Lyserus wrote: »

I can honestly tell that the story and map contents are getting worse each year
1. Story wise, the story has become so predictable that it is no longer interesting (the Greymoor story especially, dare I say it's to the point of sickening). The year long structure makes it even worse as we can even tell what happens at each story zone (the entire zone is doomed->find second boss in chapter->kill second boss in chapter->big boss got away->big boss get defeated in story dlc)
2. Map wise, we are seeing less and less actual playable content (and ZOS is using giant camp and reach clans etc to fill up the space but they actually don't have any actual contents). The delves design is boring (no way to compare with say the summerset ones). This is the result of a fixed structure and streamlined approach to new contents, it's like rolling out chicken legs for KFC.
3. dungeon dlcs could be about anything...and now they have to "fit in' the chapter story, which more often than not doesn't' make sense story-wise

The Triad arc (Morrowind->Clockwork->Summerset) was the peak of ESO story, and Murkmire was a nice breather with a single zone adventure (like the old days guild ones), but it start to go downhill from there with the year long story

If I am to summarize this "year long story" trend, it's going to be "lazy". ZOS seems to think this structure can provide the most "stable" enconomy and the task quota is easier to manage, but it is really hurting the gameplay

hopefully its all connected.

but i think you're rigth about morrowind, clock, summerset.

morrowind was AMAZING and i've felt it declining since.