Companion Customization is Lacking, Making this Chapter a Pass for Me

Elsonso

VaranisArano wrote: »

It can be both, you know, thanks to how ZOS balances ESO. ZOS originally intended for Companions to be effective partners in group dungeons. An effective dungeon DD is almost always "overpowered" in comparison to overland NPC mobs.

The result is that ZOS made Companions underpowered in Dungeons and World Boss fights (they lack survivability in mechanics and AOEs) AND made them effective in overland mob fights, which is exactly the content designed for brand new players with no CP and mismatched gear. In other words, Companions add the most power precisely to the content that is already the easiest the game has to offer.

ZOS could've worked around this if they wanted to, perhaps adding scaling to companion health/damage in group content...but no, ZOS didn't want companions to threaten to replace players. And so we got companions who can't even do the most basic thing a new dungeon runner learns: "don't stand in stupid."

There are a number of problems with companions. I think it is mainly centered around survivability, not command and control or customization. That said, I feel the biggest thing they need to change going out the door is the inventory issue. ZOS is not afraid to make things unusable or a pain in the knee while they fix things, though. If they decide to change it.

Honestly, we don't know what ZOS intends the final state of Companions to be. Not only are they slow to fix bugs, but this system isn't even going to be "complete" for a number of patches and updates following release. We will probably still be discovering that what we thought was intended was actually a bug that they fix in the 3Q or 4Q updates. On top of that, they really can't start the final tuning of them until after it is completely released, and that work won't be done for 2 or 3 updates.

PTS is a good start for them to figure out what they need to do, but I doubt the PTS crew represents the majority of players. I am sure they consider the feedback valuable, but they probably want to know what everyone else thinks, too.

All we will know is what ZOS is going out the door with. We have to suffer though the extended beta testing that comes after launch before we get the final product.

VaranisArano

Elsonso wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

It can be both, you know, thanks to how ZOS balances ESO. ZOS originally intended for Companions to be effective partners in group dungeons. An effective dungeon DD is almost always "overpowered" in comparison to overland NPC mobs.

The result is that ZOS made Companions underpowered in Dungeons and World Boss fights (they lack survivability in mechanics and AOEs) AND made them effective in overland mob fights, which is exactly the content designed for brand new players with no CP and mismatched gear. In other words, Companions add the most power precisely to the content that is already the easiest the game has to offer.

ZOS could've worked around this if they wanted to, perhaps adding scaling to companion health/damage in group content...but no, ZOS didn't want companions to threaten to replace players. And so we got companions who can't even do the most basic thing a new dungeon runner learns: "don't stand in stupid."

There are a number of problems with companions. I think it is mainly centered around survivability, not command and control or customization. That said, I feel the biggest thing they need to change going out the door is the inventory issue. ZOS is not afraid to make things unusable or a pain in the knee while they fix things, though. If they decide to change it.

Honestly, we don't know what ZOS intends the final state of Companions to be. Not only are they slow to fix bugs, but this system isn't even going to be "complete" for a number of patches and updates following release. We will probably still be discovering that what we thought was intended was actually a bug that they fix in the 3Q or 4Q updates. On top of that, they really can't start the final tuning of them until after it is completely released, and that work won't be done for 2 or 3 updates.

PTS is a good start for them to figure out what they need to do, but I doubt the PTS crew represents the majority of players. I am sure they consider the feedback valuable, but they probably want to know what everyone else thinks, too.

All we will know is what ZOS is going out the door with. We have to suffer though the extended beta testing that comes after launch before we get the final product.

Sad, but this rings true.

Everstorm

Honestly, we don't know what ZOS intends the final state of Companions to be

They could like, I don't know, communicate with their playerbase / paying customers.

Elsonso

Everstorm wrote: »

Honestly, we don't know what ZOS intends the final state of Companions to be

They could like, I don't know, communicate with their playerbase / paying customers.

They have. I guess the point that was missed is that they won't know until they have spent a couple months watching how players use them after launch.

Gilvoth

i wish we could create our companions the exact same way we make our characters, in the character creation screen, if they let us create them in the character screen, that would be heaven.
i would love it.

TelvanniWizard

Gilvoth wrote: »

i wish we could create our companions the exact same way we make our characters, in the character creation screen, if they let us create them in the character screen, that would be heaven.
i would love it.

Me too!

ForeverJenn

You're skipping a whole expansion cause you're not happy you can't change the appearance of your companion immediately out of the box?

Could you imagine if Legolas refused the Fellowship because he didn't like how Gimli looked?

Our Tolkien inspired fantasy worlds would have come out differently, I think....

phairdon

Name change
The ability to change our companions physical appearance


So no to 'clone' wars.

SickleCider

I want an animal companion. A wolf would be ideal. A nice utility pup that can chomp and apply snares, and hopefully carry some of my stuff. That's literally all I want.

crazepdx

ForeverJenn wrote: »

You're skipping a whole expansion cause you're not happy you can't change the appearance of your companion immediately out of the box?

Could you imagine if Legolas refused the Fellowship because he didn't like how Gimli looked?

Our Tolkien inspired fantasy worlds would have come out differently, I think....

I think you are missing the over arching problems.
-Can't customize so can't really use them to play dress up.
- they stand in aoe and you can't use them for a dependable battle companion
- they have no inventory space of their own.
- their gear is a pain to farm
- you can only level them for their respective guilds by guild daily delve quests and dolmens daily.
- they are terrible tanks, dps or healers except in limited circumstances.

If Gimli was also like that it wouldn't matter if he Legolas refused or went. The fellowship would have had a very different experience anyways.

Prof_Bawbag

Unless a game has been made from the bottom up to incorporate companions, it almost never works. You see it in TES games and the modern Fallout games. They're awful. The reason it works in the likes of Dragon Age, Divinity etc, is because those games were built around those companions and having them travel with you.

This is gonna be fun for 5 mins, annoying thereafter.

Cireous

This is just the first iteration of companions. Breathe, people. Change may come slowly, but this game never ceases to evolve. I don't believe for a second that companions won't do so as well.

VaranisArano

Cireous wrote: »

This is just the first iteration of companions. Breathe, people. Change may come slowly, but this game never ceases to evolve. I don't believe for a second that companions won't do so as well.

All the more reason for people who don't like the current iteration of Companions to save their money and buy them after (if) they get a couple iterations to bring them up to snuff.

I've already pre-ordered, because I like the idea of the Chapter and I want to try out Mirri. But I certainly don't think that "You're buying the first iteration of an evolving piece of gameplay" is a great selling point for anyone who's on the fence about Companions.

Elsonso

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

This is gonna be fun for 5 mins, annoying thereafter.

Nah. They are going to be like the companions from Fallout and Skyrim, minus the useful feature of carrying gear.

Basically, that means that people will do the quest to get them, activate them, then let them wander around behind them. They will, as they get better, do more to help, and the harm that they can cause is limited. There isn't really any downside to having them follow you around, and in the cases where there is, they can be dismissed.

Prof_Bawbag

Elsonso wrote: »

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

This is gonna be fun for 5 mins, annoying thereafter.

Nah. They are going to be like the companions from Fallout and Skyrim, minus the useful feature of carrying gear.

Basically, that means that people will do the quest to get them, activate them, then let them wander around behind them. They will, as they get better, do more to help, and the harm that they can cause is limited. There isn't really any downside to having them follow you around, and in the cases where there is, they can be dismissed.

I hope not because that's literally the only thing those companions were good for. Everything else about them was awful. Blocking doorways, blocking combat, inane chat, breaking stealth, questionable pathing at times etc etc.

dinokstrunz

So are players finally realising that the companions feature is just a boring watered down version of the existing player/skill menu. You're basically paying for new dialogue at this point. Sounds fun.

danno8

Cireous wrote: »

This is just the first iteration of companions. Breathe, people. Change may come slowly, but this game never ceases to evolve. I don't believe for a second that companions won't do so as well.

It would be helpful if ZoS chimed in with what their final vision of companions is then. Buying a new thing based on what you think it will eventually become is a recipe for consistent disappointment with only the rare satisfaction.

If we knew that ZoS is open to head gear and greater customization, intends for them to be more robust and useful in difficult content and has a plan for addressing the extra inventory issues then at least people more easily agree with the "early days" theory.

Elsonso

danno8 wrote: »

If we knew that ZoS is open to head gear and greater customization, intends for them to be more robust and useful in difficult content and has a plan for addressing the extra inventory issues then at least people more easily agree with the "early days" theory.

Honestly, I think we can rule out all of that.

I don't know why they don't like head gear. It makes no sense to me. It feels arbitrary, that just means that there is a reason that I cannot see. They must feel it to be a good one or they would not have done it in the first place. These are the sorts of decisions where I expect ZOS to stick by it, come hell or high water. On some things, ZOS is just not flexible. Personally, I don't care as none of mine would wear headgear, if it showed.

Difficult content will never be a thing. My prediction. The intent is not to replace players in every context. This is still an MMO game and they have not forgotten. This is an aid to solo players doing some content, groups in limited content, and future tuning will build on that. They will try to walk the line where it is not replacing players, so I never expect a companion to "save the day". No advanced mechanics. No advanced companion control. They are intended to operate autonomously and not be micromanaged. ZOS will address survivability and mobility, where bugs are present or tuning is needed.

Inventory is a serious problem, and I think I know why they did this. I don't expect them to change it. They will out stubborn a cat on this subject, just like head gear. My advice is to largely ignore their gear. Outfit them and forget it. No grinds. No re-specs. No carrying or storing their burdens. Create an outfit using your styles so that you don't have to look at what they are wearing. As you get better gear, throw it on them, then discard the old gear.

valkyrie93

wait we can't even change their hairstyle?!

Lugaldu

valkyrie93 wrote: »

wait we can't even change their hairstyle?!

Doesn't look like it.

Xebov

Tandor wrote: »

Are the players who complain that companions don't serve any real purpose in combat the same players who would complain that companions were over-powered if they did, I wonder?

I dont know, but i expected some serious power from them. For me the problem is very simple. Iam a Tank, so i spend time, Skillpoints and CP to fill my role. My only problem is that for all the Overland content that efford is not working out, so i spend more time, more Skillpoints and more CP to maintain a DD setup for this. My expectation in Compagnions was that they add 25-30k DPS to the table with a decent survivability so iam no longer forced to keep this situation up. What we instead get are 5-10k DPS that die from agroing the most basic of NPCs while they come with gear and skillsystems that require alot of efford to improve them while they are unable to kill anything.

VaranisArano wrote: »

The result is that ZOS made Companions underpowered in Dungeons and World Boss fights (they lack survivability in mechanics and AOEs) AND made them effective in overland mob fights, which is exactly the content designed for brand new players with no CP and mismatched gear. In other words, Companions add the most power precisely to the content that is already the easiest the game has to offer.

They, as usual, forget about Tank and Healer players that would have seen a great improvement in QoL if Compagnions would be decent DDs.

The main issue i see is that they combine low power and bad survivability with a long leveling system, gated skillsystem and grindy gear system. The power level would be fitting for the very beginenrs among players, while the whole gear/skill system is not suited for them. The efford needed vs gain is in no suitable relation here.

Tiedän

I can totally understand that the devs want to preserve Mirri and Bastian’s personality/identity - because of this I can accept the restriction on applying collectible Personalities and even Skins/Polymorphs on them. With this aside, there should be the ability to leverage pretty much every other option under the Appearance menu for your companions (hairstyles, makeup, adornments, scars, facial/body tattoos etc.) You can’t tell me that someone after years of adventuring in Tamriel wouldn’t someday change their haircut, get a tattoo or scar and then argue that having these features would impact the characters personality. Also, the helmet thing - while understandable from the developer perspective for the sake of preserving the companions identity, should ultimately be the player’s choice. It would be nice if it was toggle-able via a ‘hide your helm’ menu like it is for the player and/or for creative purposes just have the helmet/hood/hat removed during dialog with the player character, questing dialogue etc. I feel this would please everybody - companions retain their identity and it will prevent us all from getting the ESO version of the clone trooper 501st Legion at every Wayshrine and crafting station in Tamriel. This is just Companions 1.0 though, so I expect some quality of life improvements will eventually happen.

Orion_89

Speaking of making your companion a skeleton or a daedra, I'd say that is a bad idea. If you want a servant, than why not to ask ZOS to add a servant who will adress you as his master, instead of listening about life problems from a random monster?

P.S. Looking forward for a Lyranth or another spicy dremora to be our comrade.

NordSwordnBoard

ForeverJenn wrote: »

You're skipping a whole expansion cause you're not happy you can't change the appearance of your companion immediately out of the box?

Could you imagine if Legolas refused the Fellowship because he didn't like how Gimli looked?

Our Tolkien inspired fantasy worlds would have come out differently, I think....

Well, Legolas wasn't purchasing a customizable Dwarf-bot, and didn't have to sign a ToS to join the Fellowship lol

It's more like Gimli refusing to go to war with a companion who won't protect his head. Legolas is like: "It's not even an option for me. Also, no, I'm not changing my hair for you."

Xebov

Cireous wrote: »

This is just the first iteration of companions. Breathe, people. Change may come slowly, but this game never ceases to evolve. I don't believe for a second that companions won't do so as well.

Thats still not helping with the mess the system currently is. The current version is a low power, high efford system. The power is to low to do anything with them while the efford is way to high for what they deliver. They dont even have any survivability to cover the low power.

They spend the last months on this and there is no shariing on their vision nor does this new system in any way interact with existing systems. Collections, Transmutation, Crafting are all ignored when it comes to gear. Instead we are back to unmodifyable gear thats loot only and cant even be upgraded, so we are some years back into the past.

danno8

Xebov wrote: »

Cireous wrote: »

This is just the first iteration of companions. Breathe, people. Change may come slowly, but this game never ceases to evolve. I don't believe for a second that companions won't do so as well.

Thats still not helping with the mess the system currently is. The current version is a low power, high efford system. The power is to low to do anything with them while the efford is way to high for what they deliver. They dont even have any survivability to cover the low power.

That's exactly right. I honestly don't care too much if their DPS was only 2-3k (little more than a strong DoT) as long as they could just survive hits.

Elsonso

NordSwordnBoard wrote: »

ForeverJenn wrote: »

You're skipping a whole expansion cause you're not happy you can't change the appearance of your companion immediately out of the box?

Could you imagine if Legolas refused the Fellowship because he didn't like how Gimli looked?

Our Tolkien inspired fantasy worlds would have come out differently, I think....

Well, Legolas wasn't purchasing a customizable Dwarf-bot, and didn't have to sign a ToS to join the Fellowship lol

It's more like Gimli refusing to go to war with a companion who won't protect his head. Legolas is like: "It's not even an option for me. Also, no, I'm not changing my hair for you."

This is getting rather silly, if you ask me. The helmet, or lack thereof, is cosmetic. It would be like if Gimli was wearing an invisible elven helmet and Legolas was upset because he could see his face. Now, I have seen Gimli's face, so this is totally understandable. Still...

More generally on topic, these companions are hirelings. They are individuals pulled from the world that work for the player. It is reasonable to outfit them and provide them with a role. It is not reasonable, for a hireling, to demand they change their hair color and style, become a different race, sex, or gender, or undergo a change in appearance.

There are a lot of reasonable customizations out of the box. Costumes. Outfits. Dyes. We can dress them up in billions of different combinations of dyes, costumes, and outfits. I don't remember the number. Visible head gear or not, these companions are very customizable.

Rant over. Carry on...

Sephyr

I'm so glad that they did this now because that means I can invest my money in better content. This year is a complete pass for me.

Sergykid

Xebov wrote: »

What we instead get are 5-10k DPS that die from agroing the most basic of NPCs while they come with gear and skillsystems that require alot of efford to improve them while they are unable to kill anything.

which is equal to, if not more than, what most of the players do. For most of the players, the companions dps will be amazing as they will be able to kill overland things they couldn't by themselves. Or surviving things they couldn't before.

on the other side, if those players can't manage their own build, i doubt they will properly set up companions to be effective. Or are companions good to go right off the bench?

Sergykid

guys you are not getting slaves. They are other people that over time become your friends. They don't have to do anything for you, including visuals.