Which has the most players - Players that just PvP, just PvE, or players that play both?

Oreyn_Bearclaw · April 2021

You enjoy playing BOTH PvP and PvE?

redspecter23 wrote: »

Secret option #4, players that mostly hang out in their houses, dream of dressing up their alfiq banker and merchant in outfits one day and are waiting for the next house or furnishing pack with their wallet flailing about.

Doesnt that fall under PVE only? haha

Tandor · April 2021

You only play PvE

VaranisArano wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

I have PvP'd in other games but have no interest in it these days. I've never been to Cyrodiil or Imperial City and probably never will, likewise with duels and battlegrounds.

The more interesting question to me is how those who do participate in PvP - especially those who only do so - square their doing so with the constant complaints for several years now that PvP is "literally unplayable". Even a recent thread suggesting that PvP performance had improved in recent months was instantly jumped on and the suggestion trashed.

PVP in Cyrodiil was playable for me...for a technical value of playable.

I've been playing since the PC/NA Haderus campaign, and performance didn't used to be this bad. I played on Trueflame and then on Vivec when it was the only CP server and we were packed every night. I had some crashes, but it wasn't an every raid night, again and again, crashing experience like it has been on Kaalgrontiid and Gray Host. It wasn't perfect then, not by a long shot, but it wasn't this bad either.

I had one of the worst connections in my raid group. I've got a better computer now, but there's just nothing to be done about my rural internet. Usually I'd be doing fine for the first half hour to hour of our raid night. I could fight, I could siege, I could play with my friends, and we could have some pretty good big fights!

Then as prime time wore on, we'd get to bigger fights and I'd start crashing. We ride to save a keep under heavy attack? I crash at the front door and then spend the next twenty minutes logging back in, riding to the keep, crashing again, rinse repeat while listening to my teammates complain that some of them were crashing, or their skills were lagging, or that fears were bugged, etc. Once the fight resolved, I'd be able to rejoin my team. Maybe I'd get to do some cleanup at the resources? We'd ride off to the next fight...and if it was a heavy fight at a keep, I'd be crashing again. At that point, I'm not playing. I'm listening to my friends play. So I'd often say "I'm sorry, I'm just taking up space in raid at this point and can't play." Then I'd go play Warframe with some other friends.

The only time when I can reliably not crash in giant fights again and again is during Midyear Mayhem.

When it comes to issues with skills, I often crashed before it got to that point of severe lag. On the other hand, there's times when I had unresponsive skills. I played a healer, so a lot of times my Barrier would go off on a delay - seconds after we'd started the push that I wanted the Barrier damage shields for. Or there would be times when we'd get positionally desynced from each other - Crown would suddenly shoot forward into a different area and then we're sprinting to keep up.

That being said, my experience in an organized raid doesn't capture the frustration of solo or small scale players who need to rely on their own skills to save themselves and secure kills, rather than being able to rely on groupmates to carry us through the worst of the lag spikes. For that, I look at my experience soloing a dungeon: at the start of the Undaunted Event, there was a problem with the patch that made dungeons noticeably more large than usual. My MagSorc is normally very survivable, between the damage shields and Matriarch heal. But when a lag spike hit, I couldn't hit my shield or heal. I'd be pressing the buttons and nothing would happen, all the while I'm taking damage. I died a lot just because ESO wasn't responding to my inputs in the usual timely fashion. It was "playable" technically as I finished soloing the dungeon despite the deaths, but it was frustrating as hell. It's no wonder to me that procs are more popular when skills can't be relied on to be responsive in heavy lag.

And that's where I'm at with "playable" Cyrodiil. For me, it was playable to a certain point, but I couldn't reliably play with my friends in the big fights that Cyrodiil is supposed to be intended for. My raid friends could play, but they had to deal with some crashing and a lot of extremely frustrating lag and skill delays where ESO just isn't performing correctly. And for players who really rely on skills performing correctly - like solo and small scale players who don't have the buffer of a larger team - it gets even more frustrating because it feels like it's ESO's bad performance that's killing you, not the other players or your own lack of skill.

Now, I don't know if any of that qualifies as "literally unplayable" in your opinion, though you say you've never been to Cyrodiil and probably won't ever. There's some hyperbole, I'll admit, since most of the players for whom Cyrodiil was "literally unplayable" for most of the time have already quit.

What I will say is that Cyrodiil has not been performing as intended for years and that the current performance is often extremely frustrating with lag, skill delays, and crashing. Things improve for me during Midyear Mayhem. Then it ends, performance deteriorates, and I get frustrated again because I can't reliably fight with my friends in the large battles I love.

I'm not sure I really answered your question, so sorry. I just don't think it's a great "gotcha" question for players who love PVP.

Thanks for the detailed explanation, and I do understand your frustration. I think my question was perfectly valid, just not one that is best answered by someone whose performance issues are largely due to a self-proclaimed "rural internet".

I do agree, however, that there seems to be a strange situation in that ZOS seem able to improve performance for PvPers when a lot more players are involved during Midyear Mayhem but not outside of that. I do thinkPvPers are deserved an explanation of that @ZOS_GinaBruno and @ZOS_MattFiror !

Hexquisite · April 2021

You only play PvP

Tandor wrote: »

I have PvP'd in other games but have no interest in it these days. I've never been to Cyrodiil or Imperial City and probably never will, likewise with duels and battlegrounds.

The more interesting question to me is how those who do participate in PvP - especially those who only do so - square their doing so with the constant complaints for several years now that PvP is "literally unplayable". Even a recent thread suggesting that PvP performance had improved in recent months was instantly jumped on and the suggestion trashed.

I play just to hang out with my friends. It is quite frustrating at times, but we joke about it and move on. If my firend quit, I would quit.

FantasticFreddie · April 2021

You enjoy playing BOTH PvP and PvE?

I heartily enjoy both, and have toons setup to do exclusively one or the other, and a few setup so they can do both.

VaranisArano · April 2021

Tandor wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

I have PvP'd in other games but have no interest in it these days. I've never been to Cyrodiil or Imperial City and probably never will, likewise with duels and battlegrounds.

The more interesting question to me is how those who do participate in PvP - especially those who only do so - square their doing so with the constant complaints for several years now that PvP is "literally unplayable". Even a recent thread suggesting that PvP performance had improved in recent months was instantly jumped on and the suggestion trashed.

PVP in Cyrodiil was playable for me...for a technical value of playable.

I've been playing since the PC/NA Haderus campaign, and performance didn't used to be this bad. I played on Trueflame and then on Vivec when it was the only CP server and we were packed every night. I had some crashes, but it wasn't an every raid night, again and again, crashing experience like it has been on Kaalgrontiid and Gray Host. It wasn't perfect then, not by a long shot, but it wasn't this bad either.

I had one of the worst connections in my raid group. I've got a better computer now, but there's just nothing to be done about my rural internet. Usually I'd be doing fine for the first half hour to hour of our raid night. I could fight, I could siege, I could play with my friends, and we could have some pretty good big fights!

Then as prime time wore on, we'd get to bigger fights and I'd start crashing. We ride to save a keep under heavy attack? I crash at the front door and then spend the next twenty minutes logging back in, riding to the keep, crashing again, rinse repeat while listening to my teammates complain that some of them were crashing, or their skills were lagging, or that fears were bugged, etc. Once the fight resolved, I'd be able to rejoin my team. Maybe I'd get to do some cleanup at the resources? We'd ride off to the next fight...and if it was a heavy fight at a keep, I'd be crashing again. At that point, I'm not playing. I'm listening to my friends play. So I'd often say "I'm sorry, I'm just taking up space in raid at this point and can't play." Then I'd go play Warframe with some other friends.

The only time when I can reliably not crash in giant fights again and again is during Midyear Mayhem.

When it comes to issues with skills, I often crashed before it got to that point of severe lag. On the other hand, there's times when I had unresponsive skills. I played a healer, so a lot of times my Barrier would go off on a delay - seconds after we'd started the push that I wanted the Barrier damage shields for. Or there would be times when we'd get positionally desynced from each other - Crown would suddenly shoot forward into a different area and then we're sprinting to keep up.

That being said, my experience in an organized raid doesn't capture the frustration of solo or small scale players who need to rely on their own skills to save themselves and secure kills, rather than being able to rely on groupmates to carry us through the worst of the lag spikes. For that, I look at my experience soloing a dungeon: at the start of the Undaunted Event, there was a problem with the patch that made dungeons noticeably more large than usual. My MagSorc is normally very survivable, between the damage shields and Matriarch heal. But when a lag spike hit, I couldn't hit my shield or heal. I'd be pressing the buttons and nothing would happen, all the while I'm taking damage. I died a lot just because ESO wasn't responding to my inputs in the usual timely fashion. It was "playable" technically as I finished soloing the dungeon despite the deaths, but it was frustrating as hell. It's no wonder to me that procs are more popular when skills can't be relied on to be responsive in heavy lag.

And that's where I'm at with "playable" Cyrodiil. For me, it was playable to a certain point, but I couldn't reliably play with my friends in the big fights that Cyrodiil is supposed to be intended for. My raid friends could play, but they had to deal with some crashing and a lot of extremely frustrating lag and skill delays where ESO just isn't performing correctly. And for players who really rely on skills performing correctly - like solo and small scale players who don't have the buffer of a larger team - it gets even more frustrating because it feels like it's ESO's bad performance that's killing you, not the other players or your own lack of skill.

Now, I don't know if any of that qualifies as "literally unplayable" in your opinion, though you say you've never been to Cyrodiil and probably won't ever. There's some hyperbole, I'll admit, since most of the players for whom Cyrodiil was "literally unplayable" for most of the time have already quit.

What I will say is that Cyrodiil has not been performing as intended for years and that the current performance is often extremely frustrating with lag, skill delays, and crashing. Things improve for me during Midyear Mayhem. Then it ends, performance deteriorates, and I get frustrated again because I can't reliably fight with my friends in the large battles I love.

I'm not sure I really answered your question, so sorry. I just don't think it's a great "gotcha" question for players who love PVP.

Thanks for the detailed explanation, and I do understand your frustration. I think my question was perfectly valid, just not one that is best answered by someone whose performance issues are largely due to a self-proclaimed "rural internet".

I do agree, however, that there seems to be a strange situation in that ZOS seem able to improve performance for PvPers when a lot more players are involved during Midyear Mayhem but not outside of that. I do thinkPvPers are deserved an explanation of that @ZOS_GinaBruno and @ZOS_MattFiror !

The severity of my issues was due to my rural internet. The nature of my issues was consistent throughout the raid: everyone had some issues with crashing when entering large battles, with lag, with skill delays, and so on at different times. I wasn't unique in the types of performance problems I had, and certainly in hearing the complaints of players on the forums who do a variety of playstyles in Cyrodiil and who experience similar problems, I'd say I'm not unique.

Maybe you weren't going for a "gotcha" question, but I can't help but feel that "how can you say it's literally unplayable when you clearly still PVP" is hairsplitting about people using "literally" in a somewhat hyperbolic manner.

Judging by my PVP guild, the players in my guild who played a lot of PVP were the ones who usually had better performance. Not great performance, necessarily, but better - and that's a correlation that makes sense. Raid leads who frequently crash out of game don't stay raid leads. Players who lag a lot are going to struggle to play and enjoy PVP, and thus play less. When you keep dying to lag and skill delays, at what point do you throw up your hands and declare that its too frustrating to keep trying?Whereas PVP-only payers who literally cannot play in Cyrodiil just don't play - most of them quit sometime during the years of bad performance.

And performance varies from player to player. In a big fight, like in the last emp keep fighting for a dethrone, Cyrodiil can range from playable for some, laggy as hell for others, to literally unplayable for the players who're crashing as they approach the keep. But even there, we can hairsplit and say "Well, you could go fight somewhere else like a back keep, and so Cyrodiil is still playable!" Sure, I could, but that's akin to telling me that a trial is bugged, so I should run a random normal instead. Totally equivalent? Not really.

So that's why I think the question is hairsplitting that doesn't capture what's really happening in Cyrodiil.

I'd love to hear from other PVPers though.

vibeborn · April 2021

You enjoy playing BOTH PvP and PvE?

I'm missing an option for "either" rather than just "both"

I only do PVE content 99 % of the time and I'm having greats amount of fun. In fact I think my fun-o-meter would decrease if I was also doing PVP more often because I think PVP is more frustrating than it is fun.

That "frustration" I feel when I do rarely do PVP might however be the key to a PVP'er having fun. And they might not find PVE rewarding like I do.

And then there are people who have fun with both and that's okay too!

Iccotak · April 2021

I would like Questing more if the gameplay supported the story & questing, and was also more generally engaging in the leveling process.

I am tired of the Main Story spending over 10 hours building up the stakes & hyping up the main villain to be the greatest threat to Tamriel, perhaps even Nirn - only for the boss fight to be Extremely Anti-Climatic & Mediocre. Really kills the narrative for me.

It doesn't have to be as hard as a Vet HM Trial or the hardest dungeon - there is clearly a step above bare minimum mechanics that don't take anything more than light attacks to beat. Find a middle ground somewhere

phil.maricel08ub17_ESO · April 2021

You enjoy playing BOTH PvP and PvE?

FantasticFreddie wrote: »

I heartily enjoy both, and have toons setup to do exclusively one or the other, and a few setup so they can do both.

Do you change your CP for the few that you play both on?

ZaroktheImmortal · April 2021

You only play PvE

I'd say for most part I PVE I've tried PVP but find it rather exhausting and not really much fun. Plus there are other games that do competitive games much better I feel pve is where ESO really shines the pvp side just feels meh. I'd play another game if I wanted competitive gameplay.

Shantu · April 2021

You don't need a poll for this question because the answer is obvious. More people PVE by about a gazillion to one.

ThreeXB · April 2021

You enjoy playing BOTH PvP and PvE?

I used to mainly pvp but with year and years of cuts, nerfs, performance issues and population cap reduced by 80% I play more often pve than pvp ....fix cyrodiil, RAISE POPULATION CAP....make cyrodiil great again

bmnoble · April 2021

You enjoy playing BOTH PvP and PvE?

90% of the time PVE 10% of the time PVP.

I don't mind PVP if performance was better I would play it more often.

Gythral · April 2021

Wouldnt know - never look to see how buzy any PvP activity is on the rare occasion I'm forced into it (skyshards, skills, event tickets)

ThorianB · April 2021

You only play PvE

I love to PVP...just not in ESO. Out of many dozens of games( probably near a hundred now) that i have done PVP in, ESO has the worst PVP of any of them. Cyro is terribly designed, IC was a complete failure and BGs lack any imagination and isn't interesting ( and i typically love instant PVP )

Normally i would pick both, but i havent PVPed on purpose in ESO in probably 6 months or longer despite playing almost every day. So i can't say i do both because i really don't and when i want to PVP, i don't run to Cyro or queue for BG... I log out and go play one of the half dozen PVP games i currently have installed on my PC.

Even if they put more effort into developing PVP, i am not particularly a big fan of ESO combat system. I think it is quite cheesy, tedious, and boring. I am not a fan of class(less) system, CP is horrible( both versions) and i hate lack of variety in abilities and skills and weapons that make them unique. They are all just carbon copies of each other with different animations and names.

By this point you are probably wondering why i even play this game and i have asked myself that many times.

I am a fan of the franchise having played TES 3-5 multiple times.
I think the zones are awesome.
I actually love the quests and voice acting.
I like the housing system.
It is the only game i can get my wife to play.

But what will never make that list unless ZOS does a One Tamriel level makeover to combat/cyro/BGs is PVP. I have tried and tried and i want to like it but i just can't have fun with ESO combat/PVP. It actually reminds me of those clickfest games.

geschmonz · April 2021

You only play PvE

I focus entirely on solo PVE.

XvarleyX · April 2021

You enjoy playing BOTH PvP and PvE?

I enjoy both. But as a predominately solo player in both sections, Cyrodiil has receded my hairline approximately 2 inch over the past few years, with performance and balance decisions.

FantasticFreddie · April 2021

You enjoy playing BOTH PvP and PvE?

phil.maricel08ub17_ESO wrote: »

FantasticFreddie wrote: »

I heartily enjoy both, and have toons setup to do exclusively one or the other, and a few setup so they can do both.

Do you change your CP for the few that you play both on?

Yes, I adjust to get crit resistance up to more or less 3k before I go out

DarcyMardin · April 2021

You only play PvE

I only PvP when I need an alliance skill or some crystals or skyshards. I like riding around Cyrodiil, avoiding the PvP’ers if possible — the landscape is pretty there. But I never done a battleground on any character.

etchedpixels · April 2021

You only play PvE

I got bored of PVP because like many people it's very hard to arrange a time slot with a group and there is only so much time you can spend repairing keep walls to grind AP. With the no proc changes also meaning I'd have to go farm gear and as well (and then throw it away when the next update changed it all again) I dropped out of PvP entirely and will probably wait until the update to go back, other than perhaps mindlessly grinding some BGs in the mayhem event so I can finish my Akaviri motif collection.

nukk3r · April 2021

You enjoy playing BOTH PvP and PvE?

Next time when anyone asks why ZOS didn't add any new PvP content to the newest expansion we can redirect them to this post. At this point ZOS could safely disable PvP.

Vaoh · April 2021

You only play PvE

PvE is great and has tons to do. I only PvP for Tier 1 transmute crystals during Midyear Mayhem since it goes by quickly.

The vast majority of PvPers already quit for very good reason lol. You’ll have a much better experience on other games.... no point going into the whole discussion of this game’s massive PvP issues over the years.

Way long ago I was nearly always in PvP btw.

divnyi · April 2021

You only play PvP

I'm into BGs. All my characters are PvP geared. I'd avoid endgame PvE if that was possible, unfortunately it isn't, you still need keys, RNDs for exp, monster helms is a major pain in the ass, group arenas is just long and grindy and boring.

I do enjoy solo arenas tho, but I play em so rarely it just doesn't count.

BlueRaven · April 2021

You only play PvE

I used to enjoy PvP in eso, back when the game was new (the early vet level days). Mainly because back then there were no “meta” builds yet. Everything felt like a bunch of people with the same foam swords just whacking away at each other.
Now people have these super 1vX builds and I just cannot compete, I felt bullied out of PvP.
If there was a PvP area for casual players I would maybe do that, a PvP for players who don’t take PvP seriously in effect. That can never happen, but there it is.

Kalik_Gold · April 2021

You enjoy playing BOTH PvP and PvE?

I enjoy both. I use PvE to acquire gear to use in PvP.

Goregrinder · April 2021

MacCait wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

MacCait wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Every single PVPer does both. 100% of them. We have to run dungeons, farm leads, etc for monster sets and gear. Vateshran 2H/Staff anyone? That's from PVE. Crimson Twilight? From PVE.

There should be a 4th option "I only like PVPing, but also PVE because gear useful in PVP is locked behind PVE walls".

I get your point. Its ok though, I think it goes without saying that every PvP-er will PvE just for gear...

But would those PvP'ers PvE at all if they didn't need to?

So the question is really which one do you play? Not which one do you have to play

If the question is "Which game mode do you prefer" my answer is PVP 100% of the time, in every game I've played since Quake 3/Unreal Tournament back in 1999. If I could avoid PVE outside of grinding to max level, and grinding for gold, I 100% would.

But the question positioned was which category has the most players, people that play PVP or people that play PVE, which is a different question. I was commenting that the poll itself is missing an option.

The outcome of votes gives an idea of percentage of players and what they play, presenting a rough idea of which category has the most players from forum users voting, but that is not the question you vote on, the question you vote on is what do YOU play.

The first two options simply ask what we play, regardless of what we enjoy playing. Just "what task do you do in the game". The 3rd option suggests we enjoy doing both...so it sets a new standard of options because now it asks what we "enjoy", rather than simply what task we do, because you can do a task without enjoying it.

With the currently proposed poll options, I do not fit into any of those 3 categories. I don't just PVP. I don't just PVE. So I do not fit into options 1 or 2. I do both PVP and PVE, but I don't enjoy doing both, so I don't fit into category 3. I fit into a 4th category, which is not listed in this poll: "I enjoy PVP, but also PVE as only a task because I have to if I want gear for PVP". I don't actually enjoy PVE very much, but there is no option for that in this poll.

ImSoPro · April 2021

You enjoy playing BOTH PvP and PvE?

I have to play both. Idk how people don’t get bored playing only one side. I also wonder if the PVP only players came here from other MMOs, because if you’ve been fans of the earlier ES single player games then idk how you don’t want to play the PVE.

Moonsprite · April 2021

You only play PvE

I only went to do the introduction to cyrodiil and scout missions to unlock warhorn 🤫

Goregrinder · April 2021

ImSoPro wrote: »

I have to play both. Idk how people don’t get bored playing only one side. I also wonder if the PVP only players came here from other MMOs, because if you’ve been fans of the earlier ES single player games then idk how you don’t want to play the PVE.

Most people who started playing ESO from launch, came from other MMORPG's. Many of that initial group, came for PVP. Some of the OG developers of ESO's cyrodiil came from other PVP MMORPG's like DAoC (for instance), and Cyrodiil was the spiritual successor to DAoC's RvRvR battlegrounds.

So you are correct, there are players like me who never touched an TES game in their life, but came to ESO just for the PVP.

Jeremy · April 2021

MacCait wrote: »

Some players just love to PvP, some just PvE, and many like both... I am just curious which has the largest playerbase.

Please vote, it will be interesting to see results

NOTE: All PvP players have to PvE to get PvP gear, but many would likely not PvE if they did not have to. So if you are solely a PvP player, tick PvP

Likewise, if you only go to PvP to get skyshards and wouldn't PvP oterwise, just tick PvE

I play both. But saying I "enjoy" both might be pushing it. haha

PvP is a mixed bag on this game. It can occasionally be dumb fun. But it can also be frustrating, annoying, and downright masochistic. That being said, I have to say the "no proc" Cyrodil has been one of the better PvP experiences I've had on this game in some time. Just goes to show how much all that ridiculous "proc damage" ruins this game's PvP.

ArchMikem · April 2021

You enjoy playing BOTH PvP and PvE?

It's definitely a toss up between pure PvE, and players that dabble in both. ESO I don't believe was ever meant to be PvP centric.