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*POLL* Frost Staff Taunt Options

FoolishOptimist
FoolishOptimist
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Follow the official discussion thread for changes to the Frost Staff: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/546401/pts-update-28-feedback-thread-for-frost-staff-adjustments/p1

Several concerns have arisen regarding placing the Frost Staff's taunt onto Frost Clench (morphed from Destructive Touch) as the new description of this skill involves both taunting the enemy and immobilising them to the spot, which is counter-intuitive to the needs of the tank. Counter suggestions have formed around Elemental Susceptibility (morphed from Weakness to Elements) receiving the taunt as currently this morph pales in popularity to Elemental Drain and it has potential to function similarly to Pierce Armour.

We thank ZOS for listening to community feedback regarding the removal of the taunt from Frost Staff Heavy Attack with Tri-Force and we hope that the Devs will respond in kind to the results of this poll.

*POLL* Frost Staff Taunt Options 73 votes

Frost Clench
10%
kojouTannus15YlikollikasOlupajmibanansatanioCageKnightDrammanothSgtNuttzmeg 8 votes
Elemental Susceptibility
69%
SedrethiDarcyMardinnettechgeeknerdb14_ESOssewallb14_ESOObsidian3falcasternub18_ESOVoidCommanderGTech_1ElvenheartactoshTankHealz2015VevvevC0L0SSUSVaohRatzkifalEntegrericho262NarvuntienIrfindSilverIce58 51 votes
Other: details in comments
19%
Arwyrtheroyalestpythonnub18_ESOnine9sixredspecter23CaptainVenomAcadianPaladincheifsoapStarlockzvaviDreadDaedrothealdwinthe1andonlyskwexthadjarvisllBlack_Heartll 14 votes
  • redspecter23
    redspecter23
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    I'm fine with it on clench to be honest. Most of the things I want to taunt can't be immobilized anyway so it's not really a negative and it also doubles as an immobilize on weaker targets if I need it for that purpose.

    I'd also be mostly fine with it on Elemental Susceptibility. As you noted, nobody runs this morph really.

    My main concern is that there is no longer a taunt tied to the heavy attack and there is an active way to taunt. I'd also like if the taunt provided the same debuff that the S+B taunt does, but I can generally live without that as there are other sources.
  • FoolishOptimist
    FoolishOptimist
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    Elemental Susceptibility
    I'm fine with it on clench to be honest. Most of the things I want to taunt can't be immobilized anyway so it's not really a negative and it also doubles as an immobilize on weaker targets if I need it for that purpose.

    That's a valid perception, however I would argue that targets that can be both immobilised and taunted are better positioned next to the tank ASAP so they can be eliminated via AoE. Correct me if I'm wrong but immobilisation also provides CC immunity meaning the target cannot be chained in for at least 4 seconds after the immobilisation ends.
  • llBlack_Heartll
    llBlack_Heartll
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    Honestly, they just need to move tanking away from the Destruction Staff.

    1. Change the S&B Skill Power Slam to a 10s AEO Skill (Proc Crusher Enchantment)
    2. Add to the Power Slam, while slotted blocking cost magicka.
    3. Use Inner Fire for magicka/ranged taunt.


  • ESO_Nightingale
    ESO_Nightingale
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    Elemental Susceptibility
    Follow the official discussion thread for changes to the Frost Staff: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/546401/pts-update-28-feedback-thread-for-frost-staff-adjustments/p1

    Several concerns have arisen regarding placing the Frost Staff's taunt onto Frost Clench (morphed from Destructive Touch) as the new description of this skill involves both taunting the enemy and immobilising them to the spot, which is counter-intuitive to the needs of the tank. Counter suggestions have formed around Elemental Susceptibility (morphed from Weakness to Elements) receiving the taunt as currently this morph pales in popularity to Elemental Drain and it has potential to function similarly to Pierce Armour.

    We thank ZOS for listening to community feedback regarding the removal of the taunt from Frost Staff Heavy Attack with Tri-Force and we hope that the Devs will respond in kind to the results of this poll.

    People have been saying for a long ass time that frost clench would be a great taunt. I have been trying to counter that argument for a long time, because it only takes a little bit of thought to realise why it's not a good idea. And look what happened. Elemental Susceptibility is still the best option for a taunt because it's an unused morph that applies major breach and has 28 meters, it's a perfect middleground between pierce armor and inner fire.
    Edited by ESO_Nightingale on 19 October 2020 02:00
    PvE Frost Warden Main and teacher for ESO-U. Frost Warden PvE Build Article: https://eso-u.com/articles/nightingales_warden_dps_guide__frost_knight. Come Join the ESO Frost Discord to discuss everything frost!: https://discord.gg/5PT3rQX
  • Olupajmibanan
    Olupajmibanan
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    Frost Clench
    I would say Clench is a good candidate but not in it's current state.

    1) Range needs to be increased to match the range of Inner Fire.
    2) Inner Fire Synergy is better than Clench's Immobilize on cast, so some additional effect should be added in order to have reason to pick it over Inner Fire. Maybe afflicting target with Minor Breach?

    That would bring Frost staff as a tanking weapon much more in line with SnB.
    Edited by Olupajmibanan on 19 October 2020 05:52
  • ESO_Nightingale
    ESO_Nightingale
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    Elemental Susceptibility
    I would say Clench is a good candidate but not in it's current state.

    1) Range needs to be increased to match the range of Inner Fire.
    2) Inner Fire Synergy is better than Clench's Immobilize on cast, so some additional effect should be added in order to have reason to pick it over Inner Fire. Maybe afflicting target with Minor Breach?

    That would bring Frost staff as a tanking weapon much more in line with SnB.

    Well, the immobilize is counter productive. And I'd argue that you'd need to do more work to frost clench to even make it worthwhile. You're also limiting lightning staff tanks an option to taunt as well. Elemental Susceptibility is still the best option.
    PvE Frost Warden Main and teacher for ESO-U. Frost Warden PvE Build Article: https://eso-u.com/articles/nightingales_warden_dps_guide__frost_knight. Come Join the ESO Frost Discord to discuss everything frost!: https://discord.gg/5PT3rQX
  • FoolishOptimist
    FoolishOptimist
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    Elemental Susceptibility
    Personally I'd prefer Frost Clench become more like Poison Injection in that the DoT deals greater damage to low health enemies, giving the Frost Staff additional DPS appeal with a pseudo execute.

    The taunt just makes so much sense on Susceptibility
  • AcadianPaladin
    AcadianPaladin
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    I like the heavy attack frost taunt because it does not require a skill slot. That is worth the 'casting delay'. If I wanted an instant ranged taunt and was willing to slot a skill for it, the Undaunted Inner Rage is fine. If I want magicka back from heavy attacking without taunting, that is what my other (non frost) staff is for.

    I play a magward 'Jane of all trades' and she loves having a taunt on the front frost staff when desired and resto on back. Healing squishies is fine but sometimes when they are simply dragging a boss all over the map, taunting the boss to hold them in my killing zone is much more effective, my character is built to do it and is ultimately safer for the squishies since they are no longer under attack. This works wonderfully at WBs and often comes in handy with pugs. It is quite easy to learn to avoid inadvertent taunting; my ward has never ever inadvertently taunted a foe away from a real tank.

    TLDR: Keep frost heavy taunt; no gain from adding another ranged taunt skill when we have Inner Rage.
    Edited by AcadianPaladin on 19 October 2020 11:36
    PC NA(no Steam), PvE, mostly solo
  • FoolishOptimist
    FoolishOptimist
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    Elemental Susceptibility
    I'll admit I did enjoy heavy attack taunting, if it were to stay as a mechanic then it should be a separate passive skill on its own and in no way associated with other current passives.

    I don't think people would care about spending an additional skill point in order to heavy attack taunt, especially if it means tanks using a lightning staff could access this too.
  • redspecter23
    redspecter23
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    I'm fine with it on clench to be honest. Most of the things I want to taunt can't be immobilized anyway so it's not really a negative and it also doubles as an immobilize on weaker targets if I need it for that purpose.

    That's a valid perception, however I would argue that targets that can be both immobilised and taunted are better positioned next to the tank ASAP so they can be eliminated via AoE. Correct me if I'm wrong but immobilisation also provides CC immunity meaning the target cannot be chained in for at least 4 seconds after the immobilisation ends.

    I haven't seen the exact wording, but my assumption is that the immobilization was a root, which can be applied on a separate cooldown. Similar to chains (cc) + talons (root).

    It also comes down to playstyle. I generally don't taunt much in trash fights. I will chain in the things that can be pulled. Lock them with talons and any priority targets that might be trouble for the group get taunted.

    If your strategy is to throw taunts at multiple melee enemies to pull them to you, clench can be very counter productive for that. Non DK tanks that may not be able to toss out 3+ chains repeatedly due to stam concerns may prefer the range taunt over clench using this method of pulling.
  • the1andonlyskwex
    the1andonlyskwex
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    I'm fine with it on Frost Clench, but it needs to be changed to make it worth slotting over Inner Rage. My vote would be to give it dramatically reduced cost. Puncture costs half as much as a normal spammable, and Frost Clench should too.
    Edited by the1andonlyskwex on 20 October 2020 00:02
  • Tannus15
    Tannus15
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    Frost Clench
    there are several problems with ele drain having taunt.

    Firstly, it's free. It's bad to have a free, ranged taunt with no down side.
    Secondly healers supply ele drain in trials and with minor brittle, i can see a world where one of the healers is running ele catalyst on a frost staff for minor brittle.

    That said, frost clench needs to be cheaper and/or provide more benefit than inner rage otherwise why even bother. So far I can't see any reason to run frost clench instead of inner fire.
  • llBlack_Heartll
    llBlack_Heartll
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    Other: details in comments
    Tannus15 wrote: »
    there are several problems with ele drain having taunt.

    Firstly, it's free. It's bad to have a free, ranged taunt with no down side.
    Secondly healers supply ele drain in trials and with minor brittle, i can see a world where one of the healers is running ele catalyst on a frost staff for minor brittle.

    That said, frost clench needs to be cheaper and/or provide more benefit than inner rage otherwise why even bother. So far I can't see any reason to run frost clench instead of inner fire.

    it was suggested to use the other morph Elemental Susceptibility, which none uses.
  • Drammanoth
    Drammanoth
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    Frost Clench
    Frost Clench - cheaper and worth taking instead of Undaunted's Inner Rage. Why not Ele Susceptibility? It's free, so what's the point?
    My wishlist for ESO
    I.Skills:
    >>weapons: Polearms, Unarmed, Crossbow

    >>Sorc's Twilight - perched animation

    >>a skill line - a guild having this - to enable us to increase % gold gain for donating Ornate gear (another gold sink in order to gain more pennies - but over time it would pay off)

    II.Overland Mechanics
    >>tree climing in Grahtwood / Malabal Tor / Greenshade, etc. (with tall trees)

    >>rock climbing in Glenumbra / Rivenspire / Stonefalls, etc. (with tall peaks)

    >>new skill lines - Adventure (enable climbing, increase flora and fauna harvesting chances)

    III.CP 2.0
    >>Craft Tree development --> https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/594079/idea-craft-cp-sub-tree-ideas-constant-wip#latest

    III.Replayable content in overland
    >>dynamic pocket rifts to Oblivion - eg. to Vaermina's in Stormhaven, Boethiah's in Deshaan, Hircine's in the Rift OR in Bankgorai, etc. to get Daedric Sets relevant to the Prince, something like Oblivion rifts in Blackwood / the Deadlands

    IV.Geography
    >>Pyandonea - we had some quests WITH Maormer (Summerset, High Isle) - maybe we could meet them there? Poke poke, nudge nudge, wink wink, eh ZOS?

    V.Other
    (the ideas are also inspired by other Forum Users' posts)
    >>pet battles! We collect SO MANY pets, and yet there are just a cosmetic. What a HUGE potential lies within those tiny beats!

    >>ASOC - a new server in Asia and Oceania. If people have a bad ping there, it would be great if they had a server reaching their places more easily. And hey, it would make THREE servers, not two.

    >>possibility to dye barding

    >>possibility to switch UI between guild bank<-->bank<-->guild trader

    >>display the dialogue options so that we can see which answer the NPC is reacting to

    >>a way to make Overland more challenging - for those who want
  • Tannus15
    Tannus15
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    Frost Clench
    Tannus15 wrote: »
    there are several problems with ele drain having taunt.

    Firstly, it's free. It's bad to have a free, ranged taunt with no down side.
    Secondly healers supply ele drain in trials and with minor brittle, i can see a world where one of the healers is running ele catalyst on a frost staff for minor brittle.

    That said, frost clench needs to be cheaper and/or provide more benefit than inner rage otherwise why even bother. So far I can't see any reason to run frost clench instead of inner fire.

    it was suggested to use the other morph Elemental Susceptibility, which none uses.

    the problem with this is that when i'm tanking 1 tank, 3 dps i'm usually running ele drain to help the DD sustain.
    but more important, bolded for emphasis free taunt is a bad idea

    one of the key parts of tanking is resource management, primarily how often you're taunting.
  • FoolishOptimist
    FoolishOptimist
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    Elemental Susceptibility
    They can always add a cost onto the taunt version of the morph. As long as it doesn't deal damage or hold a synergy, it shouldn't compete too much with Inner Fire
  • zvavi
    zvavi
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    Taunt on frost clench is useless anyway, they should just scrap the taunt entirely, but move the undaunted taunt to 1st place in the skill tree + unlocking the skill tree in the begining of the undaunted quest, instead of the end, allowing new players to tank on frost staff if their heart desires so from level 10.
  • DarcyMardin
    DarcyMardin
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    Elemental Susceptibility
    Elemental susceptibility would be better, imo, but I'll be surprised if they do this, given the recent lack of response to our suggestions about alternatives to the way they were changing Rapids.
  • josiahva
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    Honestly, they just need to move tanking away from the Destruction Staff.

    1. Change the S&B Skill Power Slam to a 10s AEO Skill (Proc Crusher Enchantment)
    2. Add to the Power Slam, while slotted blocking cost magicka.
    3. Use Inner Fire for magicka/ranged taunt.


    No thanks. I agree with moving magicka tanking away from Ice staff....but what it really needs is its own skill line....not force me to slot another S&B ability I would never slot under normal circumstances. As a weapon ability, magicka tanking with an ice staff forces me to backbar ice staff....which is fine because there are a lot of destro staff abilities I might never slot otherwise that are far preferable to horrid S&B abilities(defensive stance is a perfect example...its a terrible reflect, the ONLY reason to even slot it is for the extra mitigation it provides, I rarely slot it even now unless I am tanking something that does crazy damage)...so as a weapon line it opens up a whole skill line...as a S&B morph...it does nothing interesting at all
  • paulsimonps
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    The change does almost f all. Sure you can heavy attack now with frost staff but the undaunted taunt costs just as much, has longer range and can proc a synergy that someone like off tank for example can use for alkosh or for some one to proc other synergy sets. Most mobs that are far from you you want to pull in, not immobilize. So still not a skill that will actually be used.
  • Narvuntien
    Narvuntien
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    Elemental Susceptibility
    I would say Clench is a good candidate but not in it's current state.

    1) Range needs to be increased to match the range of Inner Fire.
    2) Inner Fire Synergy is better than Clench's Immobilize on cast, so some additional effect should be added in order to have reason to pick it over Inner Fire. Maybe afflicting target with Minor Breach?

    That would bring Frost staff as a tanking weapon much more in line with SnB.

    I am annoied at losing the AoE snare/immobilise on blockage, so perhaps you could Taunt the target and then create a AOE immobilise around the target.
  • Seaviy
    Seaviy
    Elemental Susceptibility
    Taunting with Frost Clench kinda doesn't make sense to me. At least Elemental Susceptibility provides Major Breach, has a long range, but it doesn't do any damage (no point in spamming).

    With the recent changes, ZOS decided to improve the situation tanking with frost staff. The question is with passive changes and taunt (clench) will be people tank 4/12 content with frost staff? Can it compete with one hand and shield and perform on equal terms? What makes tanking special with frost staff in this case? I think developers need to answer these questions themselves before making such changes.
    Edited by Seaviy on 12 November 2020 10:57
  • theroyalestpythonnub18_ESO
    Other: details in comments
    Yeah I don't get why anyone would run frost clench over inner fire. That being said I hope there remains incentive for tanks to still run S&B over double frost staves since dps will very likely proc brittle, and I'd rather keep ele drain for 4 man content and cloudrest and such.

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