Why no love for Templar?

stefj68

Fuzzybrick wrote: »

I'm enjoying both my stamplars as is now. Please don't change anything.... I'm tired of listening to friends cry about their favorite skill being changed into a stamina skill to satisfy the crowd. (Mag sorc friends that actually used that skill that turned into crystal weapons)

i play all stamina classs, and stamplar have the hardest time staying alive, they feel like wearing table clotch no % health base skills, weak passives etc... don't get me wrong its a fun class, but it defenetively need some loving, only thing that makes me feel good is punching a target dummy that doesnt hit me back! this is were i feel great as a stamplar!!!!

Husan

hexentb16_ESO wrote: »

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

hexentb16_ESO wrote: »

I play templar a lot and I'm glad they're not getting any love. Even now the game is still easy mode while playing templar.

Im curious, do you play PvE or PvP? And if you PvP do you play against players that actually fight back and know you dont have to stand still in jabs or against complete potatoes?

Both. Entire game is easy mode when I'm on my templar. Maybe it would be more challenging if I went against the Templar's strengths but I work with them and I'm basically a killing machine that can't be killed while playing with him.

Can you elaborate on this a little bit more? What sets are you running? I try to work with templar strenghts, but nothing seems to work as well as it would on a different class.

A few PvP set ups I've tried, ranked from the worst performing (in my opinion) to the best performing:

1. Fake tank build by kristofer https://www.kristofereso.com/fake-tank-1. The idea is nice, it's a build that tries to utilize blazing shield which used to be a defining skill of the templar class years ago. But this is also a build that shows off templar weaknesses quite well. If you want a tanky build with damage run a stamina necro or stamina warden instead. This build severely lacks damage, is not that tanky at all and despite running torc of tonal constancy you will quickly run out of resources spamming 15% hp shields for 4k magicka on a heavy armor build. Blazing shield is just not a viable skill, even if you fully commit your build to it, gimping yourself on all other aspects.

2. ghost stamina templar build by kristofer https://www.kristofereso.com/ghost. It tries to be a cookie-cutter high damage stamina build. This build is not viable to run unless you are 1% of the top players. You will get blown up in 2 seconds by any other damage build. It's possible to pull of some nice moves if you play it right, however make one mistake and you end up dead. Stamina sorc with streak and stamina nightblade with cloak make such builds more forgiving at viable for the rest of the population. In addition, the current tanky proc set meta breaks this build due to two facts: one, people are running way too tanky for you to quickly burst down and two, the proc sets will just gobble your health up.

3. pariah 5 piece, spinner 5 piece with grothdarr monster set on magicka templar. This I think is the typical set up for a good combination of damage/survivability. Comparable to to a mag dk or mag warden in strenght, viable, but much weaker than meta builds of other classes.

4. aurorans 5 piece, overwhelming surge 5 piece with grothdarr monster. This build tries to embrace the proc set meta on a magicka templar, works somewhat well. Performs about the same as the pariah/spinner set up.

5. 5 piece unleashed terror with maelstrom 2h on frontbar, 5 piece syvarras on backbar. Can either tanky with malacaths or more damage oriented a monster helm set (for example velidreth). This is proc meta on a stamina build to the extreme at it works really well. It's stronger than any magicka build I've tried. However, necro, warden, sorc, nb can run this same set up much better.

6. 5 piece alessian 5 piece crimson twillight with mighty chudan monster helm set on a tanky werewolf build. Really strong due to how broken werewolf is at the moment. However, same as with the stamina proc set build, a different class would run this better due to stronger passives (nb in particular with the % regen bonus)

The strongest builds on templar are playing off of the strenght of either proc sets or werewolf, and not the class itself. In fact, other classes perform much better with an exact same set up.

I ask you again @hexentb16_ESO, what is the secret we are missing? I want to be a killing machine too

YandereGirlfriend

Is there a reason why the Sun Shield damage shield is nerfed compared to basically every other shield ability in the game?

The damage on that ability is beyond useless so if that is somehow the justification it is an extremely inept one.

I wasn't around back when the ability was supposedly good but whenever I look at that skill, like "Maybe I'm missing something..." I immediately recoil and end up thinking "YUCK!"

BalticBlues

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Is there a reason why the Sun Shield damage shield is nerfed compared to basically every other shield ability in the game? The damage on that ability is beyond useless

Same reason as always when something is "beyond useless" today: Nerfed too much one day...

Once upon a time, Sun Shield was so great that (I think it was Alcast) even made a PvP build around it where he lured enemy players to clump up around him so that Sun Shield then bombed all of them into oblivion. It was a funny trap, punishing players for being too greedy when trying to bring one player down. These days now are gone.

Nowadays ZOS favors invisible NB bombers to bring entire groups down without any way for them to see it coming. How this is better than the visible Templar Sun Shield once was is beyond me...

Mitaka211

I have two characters. A stam necro and a stamplar. I mainly play my stamplar. I quit the game a year ago because i was getting frustrated of how little attention the class got. Got back into Eso a week ago or so. I can not state enough how shocked i am that templar has gotten no attention after so long. Considering there were rumors about a class revamp back then , to see nothing has changed is kinda annoying. I have noticed this and stated it a while back, that stamplars have a lot of problems with their passives and ults. It's not that you can't make the class playable and do well with it but when i compare it with my stamnecro it is really really shocking how outdated templar is.

You can have a good build and do really well, but anything you can do another class will do better, that's kinda how i feel. Not to mention the abilities are so low effort when you compare them to other classes, I feel like our ults were designed by someone during their lunch break 6 years ago , and no one looked at them ever again.

One of the major things that annoy me on a day to day basis is that templar does not have a lot of choices for gear when it comes to pvp. Well, you do yes, but get anything else than a monster set to help you survive, 1 tank set (whatever you prefer) and people will wipe the floor with you while you try to stay alive and blow through all your resources. I use a medium armor build, fortified brass, Troll King and Briarheart. I am tanky, i am a pain to kill and i can wear down people relatively quickly in cp or no cp. My problem is that any other gear combination i try , i simply get floored in no time. Although i have seen some new monster sets that would even make me stronger but haven't gotten around to pve yet. I think it is important to note that i end up using like 4 class abilities (2 support , jabs and power of the light) lol, no class ults no nothing. I feel like i am playing a generic class sometimes lol. Even if we got one cool ult i would be happy and the other stuff won't bother me honestly.

techyeshic

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Is there a reason why the Sun Shield damage shield is nerfed compared to basically every other shield ability in the game?

The damage on that ability is beyond useless so if that is somehow the justification it is an extremely inept one.

I wasn't around back when the ability was supposedly good but whenever I look at that skill, like "Maybe I'm missing something..." I immediately recoil and end up thinking "YUCK!"

Sun shield really was a casualty of blanket nerfs to all shields and shield stacking. They only ever were an issue with sorcs, now they are nearly only useful on sorc.

The devs seem to be either incapable or unwilling to address specific issues in game. They have done the same thing time and time again with standardization as excuse sometimes, to just flat battle spirit heal debuffs recently, to now AOE tests that absolutely demolished templars for 6 weeks.

Husan

Conspiracy theory: ZOS hates templars.

The shield nerf hit sorcs the most, but also made the only templar shield unviable.

Healing nerfs obviously hit the "healing class" the hardest.

8 weeks of tests where templar just doesn't work.

Proc set meta which means our outdated passives make templar a bad choice for all meta builds.

Next they are going to implement a feature such as the three second cooldown on aoes for good and will only get around to rebalancing templar skill 5-6 months later. Mark my words.

West93

I am very interested to test ring of pale order on templar for solo pvp.

SOLDIER_1stClass

Lmao, this can't be serious.

I main Templar and still think we over perform.

People want a heal and damage increase for Templar fine.

But the stun from our gap closer needs to be removed and our aoe attacks need to be switched to single target. And damage needs to reduced on our passive abilities. And we should lose major maim.

We shouldn't have a bunch of great aoe abilities and out perform single target builds.

Firstmep

SOLDIER_1stClass wrote: »

Lmao, this can't be serious.

I main Templar and still think we over perform.

People want a heal and damage increase for Templar fine.

But the stun from our gap closer needs to be removed and our aoe attacks need to be switched to single target. And damage needs to reduced on our passive abilities. And we should lose major maim.

We shouldn't have a bunch of great aoe abilities and out perform single target builds.

I, I just can't..

West93

SOLDIER_1stClass wrote: »

Lmao, this can't be serious.

I main Templar and still think we over perform.

People want a heal and damage increase for Templar fine.

But the stun from our gap closer needs to be removed and our aoe attacks need to be switched to single target. And damage needs to reduced on our passive abilities. And we should lose major maim.

We shouldn't have a bunch of great aoe abilities and out perform single target builds.

Burning light was hit hard in pvp it is already hard to impossible land all 4 jab ticks in 1 channel (it helps if target is stunned, that's why toppling/javelin should stun and its blockable/dodgeable unlike streak (which should be blockable imo as counter) if I had to take a shot every time my toppling charge is dodged I wouldn't last 20mins in cyrodiil).

Major maim? What is this? 250 ultimate nova that if you are solo pvper you can't use synergy by yourself? Who would sit in that nova during a 1v1 or in any competitive fight? I would rather use a spellwall twice for that amount of ultimate and watch lethal arrow spammers kill themselves. I wish templars actually had usable major maim like a debuff which cannot be walked out of. 160 days played on templar, never used this ultimate for pvp (it would suck even for group play, just rather slot remembrance if you want to support).

Imagine using 250 ultimate for absolute nothing that a nightblade just shadow image teleports out of it.

And talking about aoes, since when did you saw a templar ballgroup running spamming jabs/dark flare/solar barrage?

Templars don't outperform in aoe damage and not even in single target damage and not even in healing in this current state of pvp.

SOLDIER_1stClass

West93 wrote: »

SOLDIER_1stClass wrote: »

Lmao, this can't be serious.

I main Templar and still think we over perform.

People want a heal and damage increase for Templar fine.

But the stun from our gap closer needs to be removed and our aoe attacks need to be switched to single target. And damage needs to reduced on our passive abilities. And we should lose major maim.

We shouldn't have a bunch of great aoe abilities and out perform single target builds.

Burning light was hit hard in pvp it is already hard to impossible land all 4 jab ticks in 1 channel (it helps if target is stunned, that's why toppling/javelin should stun and its blockable/dodgeable unlike streak (which should be blockable imo as counter) if I had to take a shot every time my toppling charge is dodged I wouldn't last 20mins in cyrodiil).

Major maim? What is this? 250 ultimate nova that if you are solo pvper you can't use synergy by yourself? Who would sit in that nova during a 1v1 or in any competitive fight? I would rather use a spellwall twice for that amount of ultimate and watch lethal arrow spammers kill themselves. I wish templars actually had usable major maim like a debuff which cannot be walked out of. 160 days played on templar, never used this ultimate for pvp (it would suck even for group play, just rather slot remembrance if you want to support).

Imagine using 250 ultimate for absolute nothing that a nightblade just shadow image teleports out of it.

And talking about aoes, since when did you saw a templar ballgroup running spamming jabs/dark flare/solar barrage?

Templars don't outperform in aoe damage and not even in single target damage and not even in healing in this current state of pvp.

Temps don't need a damage increase with how the class works. What it needs is a slight increase in mitigation.

[snip] this post is about increasing damage the class doesn't need.

If there is going to be an increase in damage we need to lose quite a few things to be balanced.

This class needs a better heal and a slight buff to mitigation that's all.

And the nerf to burning light was needed it was beyond overperforming.

Whether its BGs, Cyro, or IC, I have had no issues getting all four hits in with jab whatsoever even without using toppling/javelin.

As for jabs and dark flare they are spammed all the time being more than effective. In cyro and IC and definitely BGs.

[snip]

[Edited to remove Baiting]

maxjapank

SOLDIER_1stClass wrote: »

But the stun from our gap closer needs to be removed

While the stun is powerful, it's always been a part of a Templar's identity. Let's stop trying to gut what makes classes unique from other classes. Geez....

SOLDIER_1stClass

maxjapank wrote: »

SOLDIER_1stClass wrote: »

But the stun from our gap closer needs to be removed

While the stun is powerful, it's always been a part of a Templar's identity. Let's stop trying to gut what makes classes unique from other classes. Geez....

If that is the case we are running with for our stun, than for sure NBs need their cloak buffed back up, because that is their class identity and as it stands is laughable how horrible it is.

And mag DK need reflective scales and their wings unnerfed.

maxjapank

SOLDIER_1stClass wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

SOLDIER_1stClass wrote: »

But the stun from our gap closer needs to be removed

While the stun is powerful, it's always been a part of a Templar's identity. Let's stop trying to gut what makes classes unique from other classes. Geez....

If that is the case we are running with for our stun, than for sure NBs need their cloak buffed back up, because that is their class identity and as it stands is laughable how horrible it is.

And mag DK need reflective scales and their wings unnerfed.

This is a Templar thread. Talking about Templars. Go make another thread about other classes. Geez...

West93

SOLDIER_1stClass wrote: »

West93 wrote: »

SOLDIER_1stClass wrote: »

Lmao, this can't be serious.

I main Templar and still think we over perform.

People want a heal and damage increase for Templar fine.

But the stun from our gap closer needs to be removed and our aoe attacks need to be switched to single target. And damage needs to reduced on our passive abilities. And we should lose major maim.

We shouldn't have a bunch of great aoe abilities and out perform single target builds.

Burning light was hit hard in pvp it is already hard to impossible land all 4 jab ticks in 1 channel (it helps if target is stunned, that's why toppling/javelin should stun and its blockable/dodgeable unlike streak (which should be blockable imo as counter) if I had to take a shot every time my toppling charge is dodged I wouldn't last 20mins in cyrodiil).

Major maim? What is this? 250 ultimate nova that if you are solo pvper you can't use synergy by yourself? Who would sit in that nova during a 1v1 or in any competitive fight? I would rather use a spellwall twice for that amount of ultimate and watch lethal arrow spammers kill themselves. I wish templars actually had usable major maim like a debuff which cannot be walked out of. 160 days played on templar, never used this ultimate for pvp (it would suck even for group play, just rather slot remembrance if you want to support).

Imagine using 250 ultimate for absolute nothing that a nightblade just shadow image teleports out of it.

And talking about aoes, since when did you saw a templar ballgroup running spamming jabs/dark flare/solar barrage?

Templars don't outperform in aoe damage and not even in single target damage and not even in healing in this current state of pvp.

Temps don't need a damage increase with how the class works. What it needs is a slight increase in mitigation.

[snip] this post is about increasing damage the class doesn't need.

If there is going to be an increase in damage we need to lose quite a few things to be balanced.

This class needs a better heal and a slight buff to mitigation that's all.

And the nerf to burning light was needed it was beyond overperforming.

Whether its BGs, Cyro, or IC, I have had no issues getting all four hits in with jab whatsoever even without using toppling/javelin.

As for jabs and dark flare they are spammed all the time being more than effective. In cyro and IC and definitely BGs.

[snip]

[Edited to remove Baiting]

Backlash requires 6 second to build up damage for burst and it can be purged its only single target and on average hits for 2k damage ticks.

Now imagine if other class delayed burst ability would hit for 2k.

If you are getting hit by 4 channel of jabs you are the problem and not the class. You probably don't even look at combat metrix and see how many burning light procs you received, I assure you it was probably none.

Major evasion mitigates 25% of class spammable ability.

Templars need damage buff to bring back power of the light/purifying light worth slotting again.

Changing templar useless passives like filling soulgem and giving at least decent ultimates and having a health base heal or rework sun shield would be a good start to bring class up to par with others.

Qbiken

SOLDIER_1stClass wrote: »

Lmao, this can't be serious.

I main Templar and still think we over perform.

People want a heal and damage increase for Templar fine.

But the stun from our gap closer needs to be removed and our aoe attacks need to be switched to single target. And damage needs to reduced on our passive abilities. And we should lose major maim.

We shouldn't have a bunch of great aoe abilities and out perform single target builds.

This is one of many reasons I stopped taking console players serious....

What works on console doesn´t necessary works on PC since on PC you can actually move and turn properly. On top of that,
the meta on PC is very very different from console. Templar (especially stamplar but also magplar) are in an awful position right now.

Sanguinor2

Here is my experience about the value of a templar tank in PvE:

I templar tank in a DB prog group. Wanna know what I tank in trash and each boss?
In trash I only debuff and chain small adds, mt takes all big adds and is fine.
On 1st boss I only guard a dd or the mt and play as healer otherwise.
On 2nd boss I only guard a dd or the mt and play as healer otherwise.
On 3rd boss I only guard the mt and play as a healer otherwise.
Sure feel valuable as a tank when after 1 blocked heavy from anything big I have to pray for my healer to burst heal me fast enough since the only way I can burst heal myself is if either all the group is dead for repentance or all enemies are dead for repentance.

Literally the only thing I do better than my dk mt as templar ot is spam rapids after each trash pack since i can get all stam back with repentance.

UppGRAYxDD

#BringBackBlindingLight
Let it replace sunshield...

West93

UppGRAYxDD wrote: »

#BringBackBlindingLight
Let it replace sunshield...

replace sun shield for blinding light

ealdwin

West93 wrote: »

UppGRAYxDD wrote: »

#BringBackBlindingLight
Let it replace sunshield...

replace sun shield for blinding light

So, I did have an idea for Sun Shield that involved changing Blazing Shield into Blinding Shield, where on activation, nearby enemies would be stunned for X seconds, with each nearby enemy increasing the duration of the stun. The damage store and reflect part of the ability would be removed and the shield would still scale off of health. Radiant Ward would be changed to scale off of Max Magicka (or, alternatively, highest offensive stat), and keep the increased shield strength for each nearby enemy.

Though Blinding Light would also be fun.

Synssaturdayy9

literally im struggling to beat people on this class and survive it's unplayable no matter what anyone says in my opinion it's unplayable rn theirs no doubt about it in my mind

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe

I love my Templars in every role, always have, but *nerf after nerf after nerf* has gone from making me furious to just...numb. As much as I would love for them to be properly balanced again, I don't trust zos to fix anything. Period. If they touch them again, it will just be more nerfs or frustrating and pointless changes. Better to leave them in their misery than have them be "balanced" again, until I see cause to believe otherwise.

Astrid

Dihaki wrote: »

The templar is one of the classes with the greatest balance between damage and healing that exists.

*Laughs in Nightblade*

cs_spitfireb16_ESO

And not to forget that a templar got the worst major ward and major resolve ability of all the classes.

A templar has to stay withing the small circly they cast on the ground in order to keep de major buffs.

While all the other classes just cast it and it stays active for 20 seconds no matter where they go.

In PvP one can simply not stay in one place.

cs_spitfireb16_ESO

I'm talking about Rune Focus ability.
increasing your Physical Resistance and Spell Resistance by 5280 while standing within the rune

Hakkanistorm

cs_spitfireb16_ESO wrote: »

And not to forget that a templar got the worst major ward and major resolve ability of all the classes.

A templar has to stay withing the small circly they cast on the ground in order to keep de major buffs.

While all the other classes just cast it and it stays active for 20 seconds no matter where they go.

In PvP one can simply not stay in one place.

Read what the ability gives ...

cs_spitfireb16_ESO

My idea would be to remove Rune Focus ability entirely and replace it with something completely different and new.

At the same time adding Major Ward and Major Resolve to the Sun Shield ability and increase duration to at least 12 seconds or more.

So that Templar has something useful for PvP too.

Dragonredux

cs_spitfireb16_ESO wrote: »

I'm talking about Rune Focus ability.
increasing your Physical Resistance and Spell Resistance by 5280 while standing within the rune

You get Major Resolve from just casting the ability and you can do whatever after that. The bonus resistance is what you get from standing in the rune.

Firstmep

cs_spitfireb16_ESO wrote: »

I'm talking about Rune Focus ability.
increasing your Physical Resistance and Spell Resistance by 5280 while standing within the rune

No. You get 50% extra resistances for standing in the rune.

The Major resolve buff you keep alone with the resource return regardless if you stand in the rune or not.

If anything templar has one of the best armor buffs, even with the extra resistances not applying most of the time.

Its the cheapest, and it gives resources back too.

Necromancer is overall a much stronger class, but look at their armor buff, its laughable compared to rune focus.