The Vampire Experience Could Be Better

Shagreth

Greetings,

I am pleased to see that vampires got an update, I am not going to talk about nerfs or buffs much, other than well, vampiric drain still sucks and I wish that being a vampire could at least be somewhat viable for tanks, but I digress. I believe it's too early to talk about performance and I want to keep it simple and talk about the feel. It's better, everything is much better, but I got a few problems with a couple of things. I was trying to convince my wife to start ESO (she loves vampires by the way) and I showed her a couple of things and the feeding system. She quickly realized that she can't be beautiful and strong at the same time (that is fine for me, I also like the fact that we can't interact with certain NPC's, love the flavor) and the choice for her, being so damn vain, is simple, she'd rather stay stage 1 forever. But then, what about the 'feel' we were talking earlier? Well, it's all gone, you got red eyes a couple of passives maybe and that's it, you don't really get to experience how it is to be a vampire, you don't get to see the feeding animations etc. Last but not least, the Scion form, especially for the female, is truly hideous, and not in the good way. Would it be that bad to give us the actual vampire lord form?

How do you fellow vampires feel about this? She can't be the only one. And if any of these issues annoy you, what would you propose to fix them? Just from the top of my head they could give another stage for vampirism, one that is below lvl 1, it doesn't change the look, but it does give you some kind of debuff perhaps, something to at least force you to feed every now and then, so that one can still feel like a vampire, somewhat.

Yamenstein

The experience could definitely be better.

ZOS has made it so it's bad to go any higher than Stage 1 Vampirism (I haven't seen a reason to do so) and so because of that all of the awesome feed animations go to waste. I wish I could go around biting people just for that RP feel but then I would have to wait you go down in stages or I would have to use double bloody Mara just for THAT.

I wish ZOS introduced easier/more efficient ways to lower Vampire stages. Maybe I'm missing it and someone can tell me ?

I don't mind that certain merchants don't interact with me when I'm at stage 4. Haven't tried it but is it a problem when you're in areas like coldhabour ? I would like to think it won't be an issue there...

Lots of great opinions have been thought it by the players. Really makes me question 1) where were all these players when it was live on pts and 2) what the design process is for ZoS (as they took such a simple approach to vampire stages)

++ Just to clarify I know players left great feedback on the pts forum. My annoyance is with ZOS and their inability to not take player feedback into account of anything when they are set on making a change. These vampire changes are half baked or not properly thought out and rushed. Great communication would have looked like ZOS reaches out to the player base a lot earlier to get a look at what the skill line required and what fantasy players would like to play while giving their own thoughts on what should be done. That way a middle ground can be found that makes the skill line fall in with what the Devs see and what players would like to play, at the same time making sure it's not so overpowered as well.

Personally they should have gotten rid of that vampire drain ability. It would have been great if they introduced a new skill that acts like a secondary "dodge roll" you can press the skill as you strafe left or right, go up or down and you turn into a swarm of bats and end up moving through minor objects and people (similar to specs bolt). One of the morphs can deal damage and heal a bit, the other can grant ultimate as you go through enemies (even drain ultimate from players so it's impactful in PvP)(this can be the new debuff they introduced?).

I can't see them changing it now, already any big changes. But hopefully they tweak the values and some of the buffs your get from being a higher stage.

Rasande_Robin

I like the new vampire, just a little petpeeve.
It's about the new claw wish the none-health version would use your preferred max stats and be physical as stam and magical damage (just as it is) for mag.

Paradisius

They really dropped the ball with Scion in my eyes. Its obvious their intent was to hop on the hype train for Skyrim nostalgia with a Vampire Lord transformation in a Vampire rework releasing the same day as the Skyrim expac, however the end product is just a middle ground that no one really asked for, and at most just tolerates. It doesnt appeal to the people who loved to have Vampire Lord because its missing key features of one (Using claws, having Wings, levitation) yet it is too similar to a Vampire Lord for it to be unique in itself to address the audience that did not want Vampire Lord.

I would have just been against using any Vampire Lord inspiration and make an ultimate that could be unique to ESO Vampirism, some high impact shadow/blood magic of the like. Doing this would have avoided this back and forth of what the direction of Scion really was.

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO

The funny thing is that before the change, they made the hungry stage 4 vampire the most attractive, so you never ever fed. Then they reversed it so that Stage 4 was the sated filled vampire. But at the same time they made the hungry stage 1 vampire the most attractive vampire to be.

So the two changes canceled each other out.

XomRhoK

Yamenstein wrote: »

Lots of great opinions have been thought it by the players. Really makes me question 1) where were all these players when it was live on pts

Judging by your question it is better to ask where were you when it was live on pts. Threads on PTS are not deleted, you can freely go and look at feedback and suggestions of players and compare it with what is in Greymoor release.

ShadowHvo

It is over all disappointing, while having quite a few good ideas in there.

Changing how feeding works was a big mistake, and they should've instead balanced the Vampire better between Stage 1 - 4 and made it interact properly into the Justice System. Instead we have this.. strangely hollow design that doesn't really satisfy anyone.

Lord-Otto

It's unfinished, plain and simple. Likely because of the current situation. ZOS should have pushed the release date back when the trouble began.

ScardyFox

Like someone mentioned above, they wasted the feed animations by attaching such a draconian cost to it all. You should be able to drop to whatever stage you want on a whim.

Josira

They messed it up. art and animations are terrible.
Blood Scion is as was said above,a bad middle ground. its either lazy or they got rushed out to release by the people higher up the ladder. its a shame.

Austinseph1

It could be so much better, but until it gets the WW treatment it will always be RP and not very good. High end players use it for free spamables and infinite sustain but outside of an organized group play you won't be using it effectively. And even then it has a major flaw of being much more effective on classes that have great passive heals whish is poor design and a lack of foresight. It will sit like for this for a while and they will buff it when they want to sell more copies or something, that's generally how things work around here.

Noxavian

The design of it is probably even worse than the necromancer. It truly sucks and I want to know why they gave vampires a melee focused kit, yet no mobility or gap closing skills.

Further more, I want to know why they made it melee *magic* based.

[snip]

[Edited to remove Bashing]

Cerbolt

I'd like to have a full vampire build, but as it stands none of the abilities or passives are good enough for that. Not to mention we have absolutely no incentives to go above stage 1 since the downsides are so extreme. It all just seems rather half baked to me and I really wish that wasn't the case

Merca

I 'm quite comfortable playing stage 4 vampirism. I only use 3 vampire skills on the main panel. Now I pass Kalgorn. But to feel comfortable, I take advantage of the bloody rain that gives the monster set from the Bloody smithy.

Hexvaldr

I disagree with the prevalent view is that anything above stage 1 is not viable or competitive for more difficult pve group content. I assure you, you can build so that it is. It is possible to do it and for the cost balance to work well; it's just not what's out there on build sites. My stage 3 necro vamp build (using the same meta gear as before) is giving me better survivability and damage in trials so far. I'm also able to run even lower Magicka recovery than before. Just putting this out there to encourage others to not be afraid to try something different and experiment.

I'm not sharing my build here but if someone wants to chat, my in game name is @ and my forum name.

Shagreth

Merca wrote: »

I 'm quite comfortable playing stage 4 vampirism. I only use 3 vampire skills on the main panel. Now I pass Kalgorn. But to feel comfortable, I take advantage of the bloody rain that gives the monster set from the Bloody smithy.

Does that proc with the self heals from NB? (sap, strife etc.) If so I'm SO getting me one of those.

I'm not surprised that most people care for the performance more. Anyway, I mostly see negativity surrounding the changes, and that's a bit sad. In my opinion the werewolf update back then was a good one, if only Vampires had it so good, especially considering that Greymoor is a Vampire-centric expansion. Here's hoping that they adjust accordingly and when needed. All in all, I enjoy the attention we got after all these years of no changes (just nerfs) I really wish there were more options to make people feel they're actually playing a vampire, that and the model of the scion needs to change.

p.s. I saw an amazing blackreach 'vampiric' house on the PTR too, hopefully that won't cost like 20k. :P

Vevvev

You're not the only one, and neither is your wife. Even if you wanted to stay stage 1 the vampiric drain spell would have helped in making the whole thing feel more vampiric, but the spell is so worthless you have almost 0 reasons to ever use it outside ultimate generation. As for the Scion ultimate... okay I understand its not a vampire lord, but why go so far to make it like a vampire lord if it isn't?

Why did they make them look so similar yet so completely different? Having it add to your character model instead of completely replacing it should have honestly been the way to go, because as it currently stands the Scion model is butt ugly, and not in a good way. It lacks hair, has terrible choice in armor, and has the worst skin in the game. I don't mind it turning you into a beast but that beast doesn't even look like a vampire and instead more like a daedra with a size issue and a terrible skin care plan. Even the most ugly of Daedra have better looking skin than the blood Scion does!!!

Examples:

Shagreth

Vevvev wrote: »

You're not the only one, and neither is your wife. Even if you wanted to stay stage 1 the vampiric drain spell would have helped in making the whole thing feel more vampiric, but the spell is so worthless you have almost 0 reasons to ever use it outside ultimate generation. As for the Scion ultimate... okay I understand its not a vampire lord, but why go so far to make it like a vampire lord if it isn't?

Couldn't agree more actually.

Shouldn't have showed that pic, now she keeps screaming that she wants to look like Mephala. Can't say I blame her, that model is amazing.

Ah well, guess if she decides to play she's stuck with a very mediocre experience.

Vevvev

Shagreth wrote: »

Couldn't agree more actually.

Shouldn't have showed that pic, now she keeps screaming that she wants to look like Mephala. Can't say I blame her, that model is amazing.

Ah well, guess if she decides to play she's stuck with a very mediocre experience.

I'm sorry but I don't blame her either. Mephala with those bright crimson red eyes with the dark shadows around them look better than the eyes they gave the Scions.

((Pictures of the 2 Scion Models before the addition of teeth in that one PTS patch))

I don't hate the art team since they have made some pretty amazing things in ESO, but this Scion model just doesn't feel right.

Josira

Vevvev wrote: »

Shagreth wrote: »

Couldn't agree more actually.

Shouldn't have showed that pic, now she keeps screaming that she wants to look like Mephala. Can't say I blame her, that model is amazing.

Ah well, guess if she decides to play she's stuck with a very mediocre experience.

I'm sorry but I don't blame her either. Mephala with those bright crimson red eyes with the dark shadows around them look better than the eyes they gave the Scions.

((Pictures of the 2 Scion Models before the addition of teeth in that one PTS patch))

I don't hate the art team since they have made some pretty amazing things in ESO, but this Scion model just doesn't feel right.

methpires

Shagreth

Vevvev wrote: »

I don't hate the art team since they have made some pretty amazing things in ESO, but this Scion model just doesn't feel right.

Honestly, do you see this being changed? I don't. We're kinda stuck with this model, and there's absolutely nothing I like about it, just an ugly daedra. Right now it's the thing that bugs me the most, along with a few issues I see with how vampires are performing.

I love the devs, but I hate the business side of things and many decisions that have been made by the 'management' throughout the years. Other than the scion, the player models themselves could use a bit of a touch up at this point, other than that, the art team is amazing, I mean, Skyrim looks phenomenally good.

Iccotak

Paradisius wrote: »

It doesnt appeal to the people who loved to have Vampire Lord because its missing key features of one (Using claws, having Wings, levitation)

agreed, I think it's mechanically another bone goliath when it should be it's own thing

Myyth

My biggest pet peeve right now is that my vampire won't be able to train his mount skills at the stable. It is too much hassle to reduce stages then feed again just to train your mount. So I won't bother.

Josira

Iccotak wrote: »

Paradisius wrote: »

It doesnt appeal to the people who loved to have Vampire Lord because its missing key features of one (Using claws, having Wings, levitation)

agreed, I think it's mechanically another bone goliath when it should be it's own thing

It is just a reskin.
And your right. it should of been its own thing.

Vevvev

Shagreth wrote: »

Honestly, do you see this being changed?

No, and if it does I'll be so shocked I'd probably pass out for a couple of days, same if they trashed Blood Frenzy and gave us an actual vampire ability. They put a halt to all vampire changes till until after it went Live so they could collect more data, and they probably did this because despite all the backlash there were people that actually liked it. There are even a couple of people I've talked with in my guilds that think "vampire is in a good position right now." They're in the minority since they're number crunchers that look at the cold hard data instead of the actual experience. Sure Blood For Blood hits for over 35k damage in a single swing but that's against a target dummy. Its not transferable to the actual game where to get those numbers you're sitting at execution range constantly, and if anyone breaths on your character you die.

Lord-Otto

Myyth wrote: »

My biggest pet peeve right now is that my vampire won't be able to train his mount skills at the stable. It is too much hassle to reduce stages then feed again just to train your mount. So I won't bother.

Can't you mesmerize the stablekeeper?

Vevvev

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Can't you mesmerize the stablekeeper?

Logged onto my vampire after reading this and used Mesmerize on the stablekeeper.

It works, but it does not work on Bankers and non-merchant NPCs.

Lord-Otto

Vevvev wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Can't you mesmerize the stablekeeper?

Logged onto my vampire after reading this and used Mesmerize on the stablekeeper.

It works, but it does not work on Bankers and non-merchant NPCs.

NPCs are supposed to shun you, I believe. But bankers... Sounds like an oversight.

Sephyr

Vevvev wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Can't you mesmerize the stablekeeper?

Logged onto my vampire after reading this and used Mesmerize on the stablekeeper.

It works, but it does not work on Bankers and non-merchant NPCs.

There's a few bankers it works on, but Western Skyrim is riddled with the bug that it does NOT want to work on NPCs even at the fourth level of either morphed Mesmerize ability (Hypnosis/Stupefy). For instance I can successfully Mesmerize the banker in Wayrest, but I can't in Western Skyrim. I can successfully Mesmerize guild traders in several towns, but I also can't in Western Skyrim. Same with the horse trainers. I've been bug reporting like crazy for some kind of consistency either way, and that consistency is lacking in either direction.


If people reading this are having a difficulty though, here's some workarounds;

• Use a free port to Cyrodiil to use the bank and horse merchant there. (Easiest, most accessible, you don't even have to PvP)
• Ask for a free port to Coldharbour. (Some features may be blocked off, banking should be there though)
• Purified Bloody Mara. (A bit pricy, but it brings the stage down where you can interact with everyone)

Yamenstein

XomRhoK wrote: »

Yamenstein wrote: »

Lots of great opinions have been thought it by the players. Really makes me question 1) where were all these players when it was live on pts

Judging by your question it is better to ask where were you when it was live on pts. Threads on PTS are not deleted, you can freely go and look at feedback and suggestions of players and compare it with what is in Greymoor release.

Safe to assume then ZOS just didn't find any value in all those threads when it came to vampire feedback

Lord-Otto

Tjoa. Fitting. Just like the re-vamp. Couple of ideas, executed poorly.