crit vs damage

mgharris

Can someone post the mathematics of focusing on criticals v/s straight spell damage at the point where the rank 30 champion points are unlocked? Lets assume major sorcery gives 20% damage and major prophecy gives 10% crit. Maybe I am wrong but it seems you have to forego too much to get to the breakeven point where crit chance/damage outweigh straight spell damage. In addition, since 99% of PvE go down at around 5 or less hits, the math for crits only seems to support longer boss fights.

THEDKEXPERIENCE

Can't do the math for you but crits are pretty much for PVP as far as I've seen.

notimetocare

mgharris wrote: »

Can someone post the mathematics of focusing on criticals v/s straight spell damage at the point where the rank 30 champion points are unlocked? Lets assume major sorcery gives 20% damage and major prophecy gives 10% crit. Maybe I am wrong but it seems you have to forego too much to get to the breakeven point where crit chance/damage outweigh straight spell damage. In addition, since 99% of PvE go down at around 5 or less hits, the math for crits only seems to support longer boss fights.

The answer is you want both buffs. AS to the actual math, no clue. 1 buff is not better than the other because you want them both.

notimetocare

danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »

Can't do the math for you but crits are pretty much for PVP as far as I've seen.

Not, crit are worth less in pvp. PVP has crit mitigation, pve does not (though crits are still loved in pvp)

Asherons_Call

I use crit chance maxed on my char and I PVE. There is an ability that heals you every time you crit so I am at full health most of the time

lolo_01b16_ESO

If you are no nb, don't use the shadow mundus and don't have any cp in increased critical damage, every 1% crit will increase your average dps by 0.5%.
Calculating the damage increase from spell damage is more difficult, as it depends on your maximum magicka.
Damage = (max magicka + spell damage * 10.46) * base value of the skill

Elijah_Crow

Wow. Odd answers.

There are three stats to focus on.

1. Weapon Damage/Spell Damage (depending on if you are Magicka or Stamina) (Warrior/Apprentice Mundus respectively)
2. Critical Strike Chance (Theif Mundus)
3. Critical Strike Damage (Shadow Mundus)

You want to ideally get your Crit Chance to 50%. At that point additional crit is less important than the other two stats. You want to have solid Weapon Damage/Spell Damage (at level cap about 1700 Spell or 2200 Weapon Damage) and then start increasing the amount of Critical Damage you do, so your crits hit harder.

You can also increase strike chance through a champion point passive and crit damage through champion points actively spent.

Priority is Crit Chance, then damage, then crit damage.

Hope that helps.

DannyLV702

Just remember you can't crit against shields so i prefer raw damage

Ezareth

Maxing damage in this game to date has always trumped maxing Crit.

Out of the 3 primary damage attributes you can acquire as a non-5 piece set bonus crit has always performed the worst
Damage > Base Attribute > Crit

Thankfully the choices are not always mutually exclusive so you can put together a build that utilizes all but the above order of precedence will lead you to a maximum damage build.

Elijah_Crow

Ezareth wrote: »

Maxing damage in this game to date has always trumped maxing Crit.

Out of the 3 primary damage attributes you can acquire as a non-5 piece set bonus crit has always performed the worst
Damage > Base Attribute > Crit

Thankfully the choices are not always mutually exclusive so you can put together a build that utilizes all but the above order of precedence will lead you to a maximum damage build.

That's not true. I will site a well known example for comparison, and feel free to look up the math. It's in a post on the Combat and Character Mechannics forum. (I will edit and link)

When your Critical Strike Chance is 50% or greater, then the Shadow Mundus (Crit Damage) is better than the Warrior Mundus (Straight Weapon Damage and the same could be said for spell damage).

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/200518/warrior-vs-shadow-mundus-stone

Asherons_Call

Elijah_Crow wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Maxing damage in this game to date has always trumped maxing Crit.

Out of the 3 primary damage attributes you can acquire as a non-5 piece set bonus crit has always performed the worst
Damage > Base Attribute > Crit

Thankfully the choices are not always mutually exclusive so you can put together a build that utilizes all but the above order of precedence will lead you to a maximum damage build.

That's not true. I will site a well known example for comparison, and feel free to look up the math. It's in a post on the Combat and Character Mechannics forum. (I will edit and link)

When your Critical Strike Chance is 50% or greater, then the Shadow Mundus (Crit Damage) is better than the Warrior Mundus (Straight Weapon Damage and the same could be said for spell damage).

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/200518/warrior-vs-shadow-mundus-stone

That's good info! Right now I'm using thief mundus but my crit chance is around 56% so I could probably safely switch over to shadow

zornyan

Elijah_Crow wrote: »

Wow. Odd answers.

There are three stats to focus on.

1. Weapon Damage/Spell Damage (depending on if you are Magicka or Stamina) (Warrior/Apprentice Mundus respectively)
2. Critical Strike Chance (Theif Mundus)
3. Critical Strike Damage (Shadow Mundus)

You want to ideally get your Crit Chance to 50%. At that point additional crit is less important than the other two stats. You want to have solid Weapon Damage/Spell Damage (at level cap about 1700 Spell or 2200 Weapon Damage) and then start increasing the amount of Critical Damage you do, so your crits hit harder.

You can also increase strike chance through a champion point passive and crit damage through champion points actively spent.

Priority is Crit Chance, then damage, then crit damage.

Hope that helps.

Er WHAT? 1700 spell damage at vr16? You're kidding right? That wouldn't even tickle someone in pvp, let alone kill anything in pve

Most stam builds are hitting 4.5-5k weapon damage, and you're average magicka build is hitting 3.5-4k spell damage (I'm at 4k buffed)

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO

lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »

If you are no nb, don't use the shadow mundus and don't have any cp in increased critical damage, every 1% crit will increase your average dps by 0.5%.
Calculating the damage increase from spell damage is more difficult, as it depends on your maximum magicka.
Damage = (max magicka + spell damage * 10.46) * base value of the skill

Both Nightblades and Templars do 10% more damage with critical hits.

Elijah_Crow

zornyan wrote: »

Elijah_Crow wrote: »

Wow. Odd answers.

There are three stats to focus on.

1. Weapon Damage/Spell Damage (depending on if you are Magicka or Stamina) (Warrior/Apprentice Mundus respectively)
2. Critical Strike Chance (Theif Mundus)
3. Critical Strike Damage (Shadow Mundus)

You want to ideally get your Crit Chance to 50%. At that point additional crit is less important than the other two stats. You want to have solid Weapon Damage/Spell Damage (at level cap about 1700 Spell or 2200 Weapon Damage) and then start increasing the amount of Critical Damage you do, so your crits hit harder.

You can also increase strike chance through a champion point passive and crit damage through champion points actively spent.

Priority is Crit Chance, then damage, then crit damage.

Hope that helps.

Er WHAT? 1700 spell damage at vr16? You're kidding right? That wouldn't even tickle someone in pvp, let alone kill anything in pve

Most stam builds are hitting 4.5-5k weapon damage, and you're average magicka build is hitting 3.5-4k spell damage (I'm at 4k buffed)

I knew somebody would comment and should have noted: This is a minimum starting point for spell and weapon damage before investing into increasing crit damage and it's correct.

I run with 2600 weapon damage which proc's for more than 4k buffed. For the people who do nothing but stack weapon damage. If your at 4k damage unbuffed, your most likely a glass cannon with little sustain or your not just starting out.

ShadowDisciple

crit chance is always either hit or miss...its a high risk high reward playstyle always... in PvE crit chnc is preferable...in pvp max dmg is much more significant... max dmg + armor pen = damage for stam users in pvp... then when you crit its preety rewarding and much more stable..

Bassically with stacking dmg spell/weapon power you remove the RNG element in dealing dmg..50% crit chance doesent mean every other attack will crit...and thats esspecially true for pvp where crit is further mitigated

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO

ShadowDisciple wrote: »

crit chance is always either hit or miss...its a high risk high reward playstyle always... in PvE crit chnc is preferable...in pvp max dmg is much more significant... max dmg + armor pen = damage for stam users in pvp... then when you crit its preety rewarding and much more stable..

Bassically with stacking dmg spell/weapon power you remove the RNG element in dealing dmg..50% crit chance doesent mean every other attack will crit...and thats esspecially true for pvp where crit is further mitigated

An armor trait and champion system perk reduce crit damage and shields drop crit to 0% crits too hit and miss good crit and high damage is far better.

Ezareth

Elijah_Crow wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Maxing damage in this game to date has always trumped maxing Crit.

Out of the 3 primary damage attributes you can acquire as a non-5 piece set bonus crit has always performed the worst
Damage > Base Attribute > Crit

Thankfully the choices are not always mutually exclusive so you can put together a build that utilizes all but the above order of precedence will lead you to a maximum damage build.

That's not true. I will site a well known example for comparison, and feel free to look up the math. It's in a post on the Combat and Character Mechannics forum. (I will edit and link)

When your Critical Strike Chance is 50% or greater, then the Shadow Mundus (Crit Damage) is better than the Warrior Mundus (Straight Weapon Damage and the same could be said for spell damage).

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/200518/warrior-vs-shadow-mundus-stone

You can't make a blanket statement like that because it's absolutely not true. That post is the most excessively and totally unnecessary bit of math I've seen on these forums....and all for something as simple as trying to ascertain what mundus is best for a player. It is also is full of some assumptions you cant make in PvP.

And then you come in here and butcher the work he did with a blanket statement that isn't even what he concluded (or true)

With all that said, I was speaking on set bonuses that are not 5 piece which are normalized at a far different ratio.

688 Crit Rating = 3.14 Crit compared to 129 Damage on a set bonus is not equal to
12% Crit compared to 167 Weapon damage

Akinos

zornyan wrote: »

Elijah_Crow wrote: »

Wow. Odd answers.

There are three stats to focus on.

1. Weapon Damage/Spell Damage (depending on if you are Magicka or Stamina) (Warrior/Apprentice Mundus respectively)
2. Critical Strike Chance (Theif Mundus)
3. Critical Strike Damage (Shadow Mundus)

You want to ideally get your Crit Chance to 50%. At that point additional crit is less important than the other two stats. You want to have solid Weapon Damage/Spell Damage (at level cap about 1700 Spell or 2200 Weapon Damage) and then start increasing the amount of Critical Damage you do, so your crits hit harder.

You can also increase strike chance through a champion point passive and crit damage through champion points actively spent.

Priority is Crit Chance, then damage, then crit damage.

Hope that helps.

Er WHAT? 1700 spell damage at vr16? You're kidding right? That wouldn't even tickle someone in pvp, let alone kill anything in pve

Most stam builds are hitting 4.5-5k weapon damage, and you're average magicka build is hitting 3.5-4k spell damage (I'm at 4k buffed)

Average magicka build has 3.5k-4k spell damage? LOL maybe if you play a sorc. But then again your everyday average magicka build is most likely a sorc anyways.

Elijah_Crow

Ezareth wrote: »

Elijah_Crow wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Maxing damage in this game to date has always trumped maxing Crit.

Out of the 3 primary damage attributes you can acquire as a non-5 piece set bonus crit has always performed the worst
Damage > Base Attribute > Crit

Thankfully the choices are not always mutually exclusive so you can put together a build that utilizes all but the above order of precedence will lead you to a maximum damage build.

That's not true. I will site a well known example for comparison, and feel free to look up the math. It's in a post on the Combat and Character Mechannics forum. (I will edit and link)

When your Critical Strike Chance is 50% or greater, then the Shadow Mundus (Crit Damage) is better than the Warrior Mundus (Straight Weapon Damage and the same could be said for spell damage).

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/200518/warrior-vs-shadow-mundus-stone

You can't make a blanket statement like that because it's absolutely not true. That post is the most excessively and totally unnecessary bit of math I've seen on these forums....and all for something as simple as trying to ascertain what mundus is best for a player. It is also is full of some assumptions you cant make in PvP.

Obviously the math was too difficult for you to follow and it is some of the better math ever posted. Not only is the math right I've tested in game with short burst and sustained damage and it's correct. The rest of the math in your post is completely off and off due to Mundus stone values changing.

Next time you want to criticize, why not back it up with some new information (or at least correct info) that might add something of value to the op's original question. Where did the OP ask anything about PvP? Troll.

hardcore_gmr

In all honesty you really want a mixture of both. You want good base damage and good crit. The highest dps builds use both stats instead of being my mutally exclusive of each other. Depending on whether your gear focuses on raw damage or Crit chance you want to pick a mundus and CP that favor the other. This gives you the best of both worlds and maximizes your overall dps. You should be doing whatever you need to get to at least 50% crit chance and building raw damage in the process. If you can get to at least 50 % crit chance without mundus stone, then the crit damage mundus yields greater dps, then the raw damage mundus stones. Plus CP can improve your raw damage through skills better than it will improve your crit damage. The difference is because the raw damage increase through CP is additive vs the increase of crit damage which is multiplicative. The link posted by @Elijah_Crow about crit is accurate

ADarklore

Surprisingly, a lot of people will look at their Crit Chance % in character stats, think, "I'm above 50% so let's switch Mundus to Shadow" not realizing that it was the Thief Mundus that got them above 50%. So they switch, now suddenly their Crit Chance drops way below 50%.

I think it's important for people to understand that the 50%+ Crit Chance needs to be based upon not using the Thief Mundus. Also, I know many use Fighters Guild skill Expert Hunter to boost their crit, but they also need to keep in mind that they need to keep this slotted on BOTH bars if they want high crit on both weapons. Makes me wonder how many people bother to check both weapon stats or just look at one and assume it includes both weapons.

hardcore_gmr

ADarklore wrote: »

Surprisingly, a lot of people will look at their Crit Chance % in character stats, think, "I'm above 50% so let's switch Mundus to Shadow" not realizing that it was the Thief Mundus that got them above 50%. So they switch, now suddenly their Crit Chance drops way below 50%.

I think it's important for people to understand that the 50%+ Crit Chance needs to be based upon not using the Thief Mundus. Also, I know many use Fighters Guild skill Expert Hunter to boost their crit, but they also need to keep in mind that they need to keep this slotted on BOTH bars if they want high crit on both weapons. Makes me wonder how many people bother to check both weapon stats or just look at one and assume it includes both weapons.

This is so true.... you must have crit chance above 50% without the thief mundus for the switch to shadow to be worth the change. If your crit chance needs the thief stone to reach 50% then you have to go with a pure damage build. I've noticed that unless I am on my sorc, all my magic builds use the thief stone, because I find it a little harder to reach 50% without giving up skill slots for things like mage light. On my stamina builds this is a lot easier due to night mothers and hunding's rage. Which is why I am super excited for orsinium because the law of Julianos set is basically the magic hunding's rage and will give me the flexibility to use apprentice/shadow stones without sacrificing dps due to loss of crit. Because other players can use impenetrable trait to effectively negate or severely reduce crit damage, the raw damage stone works better for pvp due to consistent damage although this seems to be changing somewhat as more players are starting to go reinforced for pve and never change over for pvp. It seems really hit or miss when pvp is concerned because some players are pure pvp and others are pve and pvp mixed. Most don't go through the trouble of making two sets.

zornyan

Akinos wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

Elijah_Crow wrote: »

Wow. Odd answers.

There are three stats to focus on.

1. Weapon Damage/Spell Damage (depending on if you are Magicka or Stamina) (Warrior/Apprentice Mundus respectively)
2. Critical Strike Chance (Theif Mundus)
3. Critical Strike Damage (Shadow Mundus)

You want to ideally get your Crit Chance to 50%. At that point additional crit is less important than the other two stats. You want to have solid Weapon Damage/Spell Damage (at level cap about 1700 Spell or 2200 Weapon Damage) and then start increasing the amount of Critical Damage you do, so your crits hit harder.

You can also increase strike chance through a champion point passive and crit damage through champion points actively spent.

Priority is Crit Chance, then damage, then crit damage.

Hope that helps.

Er WHAT? 1700 spell damage at vr16? You're kidding right? That wouldn't even tickle someone in pvp, let alone kill anything in pve

Most stam builds are hitting 4.5-5k weapon damage, and you're average magicka build is hitting 3.5-4k spell damage (I'm at 4k buffed)

Average magicka build has 3.5k-4k spell damage? LOL maybe if you play a sorc. But then again your everyday average magicka build is most likely a sorc anyways.

My imperial magicka templar is hitting 3800 spell power, he's going to gain 120 more from the julianos set come Orsinium, currently using vr15 gear and vr16 swords.

Dracane

Elijah_Crow wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Maxing damage in this game to date has always trumped maxing Crit.

Out of the 3 primary damage attributes you can acquire as a non-5 piece set bonus crit has always performed the worst
Damage > Base Attribute > Crit

Thankfully the choices are not always mutually exclusive so you can put together a build that utilizes all but the above order of precedence will lead you to a maximum damage build.

That's not true. I will site a well known example for comparison, and feel free to look up the math. It's in a post on the Combat and Character Mechannics forum. (I will edit and link)

When your Critical Strike Chance is 50% or greater, then the Shadow Mundus (Crit Damage) is better than the Warrior Mundus (Straight Weapon Damage and the same could be said for spell damage).

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/200518/warrior-vs-shadow-mundus-stone

Ezareth is right. Base damage has the highest priority.
You will NEVER always land critical hits and if you land one, its damage will be lower if your base damage is not decent.
Base damage is the most important thing, as it highly increases the strenght of your non crit attacks AND the strenght of your crits. Because each base damage point is increased by at least 50% when you critical hit.

I would always increase my spell or weapon damage as high as possible. For pve, AT LEAST 4000 spell damage (fully buffed) is a must, up to 5000+ is possible. Weapon damage is even higher.
Templar reaches the highest spell damage in the average spell caster setup, because he has access to minor spell damage buffs.

Ezareth

Elijah_Crow wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Elijah_Crow wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Maxing damage in this game to date has always trumped maxing Crit.

Out of the 3 primary damage attributes you can acquire as a non-5 piece set bonus crit has always performed the worst
Damage > Base Attribute > Crit

Thankfully the choices are not always mutually exclusive so you can put together a build that utilizes all but the above order of precedence will lead you to a maximum damage build.

That's not true. I will site a well known example for comparison, and feel free to look up the math. It's in a post on the Combat and Character Mechannics forum. (I will edit and link)

When your Critical Strike Chance is 50% or greater, then the Shadow Mundus (Crit Damage) is better than the Warrior Mundus (Straight Weapon Damage and the same could be said for spell damage).

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/200518/warrior-vs-shadow-mundus-stone

You can't make a blanket statement like that because it's absolutely not true. That post is the most excessively and totally unnecessary bit of math I've seen on these forums....and all for something as simple as trying to ascertain what mundus is best for a player. It is also is full of some assumptions you cant make in PvP.

Obviously the math was too difficult for you to follow and it is some of the better math ever posted. Not only is the math right I've tested in game with short burst and sustained damage and it's correct. The rest of the math in your post is completely off and off due to Mundus stone values changing.

Next time you want to criticize, why not back it up with some new information (or at least correct info) that might add something of value to the op's original question. Where did the OP ask anything about PvP? Troll.

The math was easy for me to follow because I've already written it in a much less verbose format....which is why I made my original statement and said his math was overly complicated. Everything I've said was 100% accurate. For example he's including formulas for mitigation in his math. Why? Mitigation is applied equally to both crits and normal hits. It never should have been added to his calculation to begin with (even if it was reduced out later). He also gave the wrong formula for Precise Strikes (which is currently bugged). On the PvP front crits are completely mitigated by block and damage shields (and some PVE mobs use damage shields as well).

Secondly you said "When your Critical Strike Chance is 50% or greater then the Shadow Mundus (Crit Damage) is Better....which is something someone who had zero understanding of the math posted in that thread and was refuted by the guy who posted the math yet you repeat it in here like he backed it up. 50% crit chance is only 1 variable in the formula, you need to know where your existing base damage is as well as your existing crit damage modifer before determinging exactly *what* your crit percentage should be before deciding between weapon damage and crit damage or crit chance. The person in this conversation who found the math too difficult to follow obviously wasn't me.

Once again my post was made regarding set bonus choices which is quite obvious on which is best for a PvE or PvP damage standpoint.

Akinos

zornyan wrote: »

Akinos wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

Elijah_Crow wrote: »

Wow. Odd answers.

There are three stats to focus on.

1. Weapon Damage/Spell Damage (depending on if you are Magicka or Stamina) (Warrior/Apprentice Mundus respectively)
2. Critical Strike Chance (Theif Mundus)
3. Critical Strike Damage (Shadow Mundus)

You want to ideally get your Crit Chance to 50%. At that point additional crit is less important than the other two stats. You want to have solid Weapon Damage/Spell Damage (at level cap about 1700 Spell or 2200 Weapon Damage) and then start increasing the amount of Critical Damage you do, so your crits hit harder.

You can also increase strike chance through a champion point passive and crit damage through champion points actively spent.

Priority is Crit Chance, then damage, then crit damage.

Hope that helps.

Er WHAT? 1700 spell damage at vr16? You're kidding right? That wouldn't even tickle someone in pvp, let alone kill anything in pve

Most stam builds are hitting 4.5-5k weapon damage, and you're average magicka build is hitting 3.5-4k spell damage (I'm at 4k buffed)

Average magicka build has 3.5k-4k spell damage? LOL maybe if you play a sorc. But then again your everyday average magicka build is most likely a sorc anyways.

My imperial magicka templar is hitting 3800 spell power, he's going to gain 120 more from the julianos set come Orsinium, currently using vr15 gear and vr16 swords.

That's also fully buffed. A sorc can get around 3200 unbuffed. A Templar with that much spell damage has very little regen.

mgharris

Thanks for all the feedback on the topic. It seems my original opinion stands that it is better to focus first on base damage and then crit chance. I did read the post embedded in this string before I started this string, but it seemed the math only held using a nightblade because of class / race buffs to crit chance.

PC0523

Great posts guys, it's given me a lot to consider regarding the Julianos set vs other alternatives

I'm currently running:
5x Julianos
2-3x Seducer
1x Molag Kena
3x Willpower (SD enchants)
Atronach Mundus

The setup above is mostly VR15 (except the Molag Kena), and gives me 2467 unbuffed spell damage, ~1250 regen and 40% spell crit. I've found that I need this regen along with Siphoning Attacks so that I don't run out of magic.

I was also considering swapping out to:
5x Kagrenacs
2-3x Torugs
1x Molag Kena
3x Willpower (SD enchants)
Atronach Mundus

With both setups above at VR16 Legendary (and if my math is right), the Julianos/Seducer setup will give me ~7% more crit chance while the Kagrenacs/Torugs setup will give me ~55 more spell damage.

Would the additional 7% spell crit (~40% total spell crit) be better than the additional 55 spell damage for a NB DPS? My current intention is to use this setup for both PVE and PVP.

I've tested the 5x Julianos & 2-3x Torugs setup in an effort to maximize my spell crit and spell damage, but my magic recovery was ~1100 and felt too low (even with the Atronach Mundus and 3x Divines).

zornyan

Dracane wrote: »

Elijah_Crow wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Maxing damage in this game to date has always trumped maxing Crit.

Out of the 3 primary damage attributes you can acquire as a non-5 piece set bonus crit has always performed the worst
Damage > Base Attribute > Crit

Thankfully the choices are not always mutually exclusive so you can put together a build that utilizes all but the above order of precedence will lead you to a maximum damage build.

That's not true. I will site a well known example for comparison, and feel free to look up the math. It's in a post on the Combat and Character Mechannics forum. (I will edit and link)

When your Critical Strike Chance is 50% or greater, then the Shadow Mundus (Crit Damage) is better than the Warrior Mundus (Straight Weapon Damage and the same could be said for spell damage).

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/200518/warrior-vs-shadow-mundus-stone

Ezareth is right. Base damage has the highest priority.
You will NEVER always land critical hits and if you land one, its damage will be lower if your base damage is not decent.
Base damage is the most important thing, as it highly increases the strenght of your non crit attacks AND the strenght of your crits. Because each base damage point is increased by at least 50% when you critical hit.

I would always increase my spell or weapon damage as high as possible. For pve, AT LEAST 4000 spell damage (fully buffed) is a must, up to 5000+ is possible. Weapon damage is even higher.
Templar reaches the highest spell damage in the average spell caster setup, because he has access to minor spell damage buffs.

Not really


If a sorc slots 5 skills. They get 10% boost.

Minor sorcery gives us 5%

In a group sorcs also gets that 5% Giving highest achieveable spell damage

Ezareth

zornyan wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Elijah_Crow wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Maxing damage in this game to date has always trumped maxing Crit.

Out of the 3 primary damage attributes you can acquire as a non-5 piece set bonus crit has always performed the worst
Damage > Base Attribute > Crit

Thankfully the choices are not always mutually exclusive so you can put together a build that utilizes all but the above order of precedence will lead you to a maximum damage build.

That's not true. I will site a well known example for comparison, and feel free to look up the math. It's in a post on the Combat and Character Mechannics forum. (I will edit and link)

When your Critical Strike Chance is 50% or greater, then the Shadow Mundus (Crit Damage) is better than the Warrior Mundus (Straight Weapon Damage and the same could be said for spell damage).

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/200518/warrior-vs-shadow-mundus-stone

Ezareth is right. Base damage has the highest priority.
You will NEVER always land critical hits and if you land one, its damage will be lower if your base damage is not decent.
Base damage is the most important thing, as it highly increases the strenght of your non crit attacks AND the strenght of your crits. Because each base damage point is increased by at least 50% when you critical hit.

I would always increase my spell or weapon damage as high as possible. For pve, AT LEAST 4000 spell damage (fully buffed) is a must, up to 5000+ is possible. Weapon damage is even higher.
Templar reaches the highest spell damage in the average spell caster setup, because he has access to minor spell damage buffs.

Not really


If a sorc slots 5 skills. They get 10% boost.

Minor sorcery gives us 5%

In a group sorcs also gets that 5% Giving highest achieveable spell damage

What did you even just say?

zornyan

Ezareth wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Elijah_Crow wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Maxing damage in this game to date has always trumped maxing Crit.

Out of the 3 primary damage attributes you can acquire as a non-5 piece set bonus crit has always performed the worst
Damage > Base Attribute > Crit

Thankfully the choices are not always mutually exclusive so you can put together a build that utilizes all but the above order of precedence will lead you to a maximum damage build.

That's not true. I will site a well known example for comparison, and feel free to look up the math. It's in a post on the Combat and Character Mechannics forum. (I will edit and link)

When your Critical Strike Chance is 50% or greater, then the Shadow Mundus (Crit Damage) is better than the Warrior Mundus (Straight Weapon Damage and the same could be said for spell damage).

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/200518/warrior-vs-shadow-mundus-stone

Ezareth is right. Base damage has the highest priority.
You will NEVER always land critical hits and if you land one, its damage will be lower if your base damage is not decent.
Base damage is the most important thing, as it highly increases the strenght of your non crit attacks AND the strenght of your crits. Because each base damage point is increased by at least 50% when you critical hit.

I would always increase my spell or weapon damage as high as possible. For pve, AT LEAST 4000 spell damage (fully buffed) is a must, up to 5000+ is possible. Weapon damage is even higher.
Templar reaches the highest spell damage in the average spell caster setup, because he has access to minor spell damage buffs.

Not really


If a sorc slots 5 skills. They get 10% boost.

Minor sorcery gives us 5%

In a group sorcs also gets that 5% Giving highest achieveable spell damage

What did you even just say?

Erm the guy above me said templars can achieve the highest spell damage , I merely corrected him that it's actually sorcerers