Looking forward: Can ZOS recover? What would it take? Or has it gone too far?

Naivefanboi

Razzak wrote: »

Money wise, ZOS will be better with the B2P. ESO on the other hand, might become worse from a social standpoint.
Right now, ESO is only filled with gamers that are willing to pay a monthly fee for a game to survive and advance. With B2P, there will be lots of players that have little to no desire to help the game or it's community.
Time will tell what type of players will be the most numerous, but one thing is certain. ZOS's attitude of bait and switch, false promises, lies, no transparency in their plans and little to none communication, will have the same effect on those that will still have some passion for the game. It will continue to drive many players off, while it constntly brings new "got a game as a gift" type of players. Will they be enough for ESO to survive as a good, social MMO, is hard to tell.
But, ZOS will be better off. That's the sole reason for B2P. To make more money. They definitely didn't decide for B2P out of their desire to make it a better game. It was a desire to make it more profitable. In a short to medium term way.

its hard to tell with consoles. i mean im sure launch will be a buggy mess andy new update always is with this game. but what im getting at is destiny did the exact same thing with lack of content and bait and switch setups. and people ate that up.altho ive heard gamestop wont even take the game anymore cause theyre so flooded with trade ins lol. so they will prolly sell some boxes then console crowd will trade it in and it will on life support with min population like dcuo or AoC

Haxnschwammer

Those who leave are those who payed 15-20 bucks every month.
Those who come are those who don't want to pay at all. FRREEEEEE to play...

I think there will be more coming than leaving, at least in the beginning, but I'm
not sure if there will be enough staying and paying at the cash shop.

Koensol

The reason I'm leaving ESO is not because of what happened, or what actions ZOS took, but how it happened and how they executed their actions. That, they will never be able to recover from for me. I have been used, spit on and lied to enough by ZOS. They won't get a single *** penny from me anymore.

Kevinmon

Darthryan wrote: »

Fix my *** cloak. Fix the view from catapalts. You know stuff I've been complaining about since day one. As it is now, I only log on to sell some stuff. Just seeing how the justice system looks and waitng for a new mmo to play. Any one have a good mmo coming out?

Amen brother!

jeevin

Koensol wrote: »

The reason I'm leaving ESO is not because of what happened, or what actions ZOS took, but how it happened and how they executed their actions. That, they will never be able to recover from for me. I have been used, spit on and lied to enough by ZOS. They won't get a single *** penny from me anymore.

Come on, hang around to get nickel and dimed too! Lies are so 2014 from here on out prepare for a more honest open approach, like "so yeah we've actually spent the games budget now redoing half of the game and incorporating a cash shop so we can ring as much money from the title as possible, so no new content, we're just going to hope the cash rolls in".

stefan.gustavsonb16_ESO

cesmode wrote: »

Not to mention, they seem well off enough to release a console version. They must be doing ok.

No, this does not in any way mean that they are doing OK. They are clearly doing very badly, both in terms of revenue and the quality of their product. They are still working on the console versions because they already spent years of work and truckloads of money developing them, but they have not yet managed to make them fit for release. They console release is a year behind schedule, and I would say this is a last ditch attempt to save their investment in the Xbox and PS4 versions from being a total waste of money. ZOS is now in damage control mode, trying to make a cash grab to earn at least some of their investors' money back.

They won't see another penny from me, that's for sure.

Ahdora

For me personally, it's too late. I no longer have any faith in the direction of the game, the ethics of the company, or any belief whatsoever in anything that they say.

Things they could have done that would have caused me to at least consider sticking it out would have been:

• Being more transparent about what was causing delays in content.
• Being more communicative in general when they were blasted by valid concerns from a large portion of the player base.
• Not made multiple promises for future content updates and their timing that were repeatedly pushed back or even canceled. Seriously, wait until it's a given before you start talking about it. But the fact that they didn't makes it all feel like a ploy to keep people subbed while they worked on something else.
• Fix bugs that were reported pre-launch but still exist in the game.
• Stop hiding behind vague wording so that you have a "loophole" when it turns out that you were being deliberately deceitful.

Magdalina

Ahdora wrote: »

For me personally, it's too late. I no longer have any faith in the direction of the game, the ethics of the company, or any belief whatsoever in anything that they say.

Things they could have done that would have caused me to at least consider sticking it out would have been:

• Being more transparent about what was causing delays in content.
• Being more communicative in general when they were blasted by valid concerns from a large portion of the player base.
• Not made multiple promises for future content updates and their timing that were repeatedly pushed back or even canceled. Seriously, wait until it's a given before you start talking about it. But the fact that they didn't makes it all feel like a ploy to keep people subbed while they worked on something else.
• Fix bugs that were reported pre-launch but still exist in the game.
• Stop hiding behind vague wording so that you have a "loophole" when it turns out that you were being deliberately deceitful.

Sadly, that about sums it up for me.
I will stick around for some time at least though because I really love the game, but I really don't like what they're doing to it - and more than that, *how* they're doing it.

AshySamurai

I'm not leaving right now. I have some more time paid and I want to give a chanse to new system. I really care about this game. Since I started to play and till last news about b2p I recommended this game to every my friend and comrade. But now I can't do it because I'm not sure about ESO's future. And I'm not sure that game evolves in right direction. Wish I'm wrong now. But what ZOS should do is to break silence and communicate with their customers.

DDuke

AshySamurai wrote: »

I'm not leaving right now. I have some more time paid and I want to give a chanse to new system. I really care about this game. Since I started to play and till last news about b2p I recommended this game to every my friend and comrade. But now I can't do it because I'm not sure about ESO's future. And I'm not sure that game evolves in right direction. Wish I'm wrong now. But what ZOS should do is to break silence and communicate with their customers.

It's sad, because I used to wish ZOS would communicate more with us.

Now, I doubt I'd be able to trust anything they say.

Alphashado

DDuke wrote: »

AshySamurai wrote: »

I'm not leaving right now. I have some more time paid and I want to give a chanse to new system. I really care about this game. Since I started to play and till last news about b2p I recommended this game to every my friend and comrade. But now I can't do it because I'm not sure about ESO's future. And I'm not sure that game evolves in right direction. Wish I'm wrong now. But what ZOS should do is to break silence and communicate with their customers.

It's sad, because I used to wish ZOS would communicate more with us.

Now, I doubt I'd be able to trust anything they say.

I agree. ZoS has zero credibility in my book. They will not fool me again and I will never stick up for them again or promote their game as anything other than a decent game with a cash shop. Everything this game and Bethesda/ZoS represented a year ago is a lie.

Samadhi

ZOS just needs to manage to maintain my attention until the next Elder Scrolls game is released.
Going to spend a bunch of time on GTA when it lands on PC (it's even supposed to launch with 3d), but that isn't going to stop me from maintaining my sub and playing here.
There isn't really anything else in the MMORPG genre that interests me enough to jump ship to yet.

Lynnessa

DDuke wrote: »

So essentially you're getting "Skyrim with friends", while all the dedicated players that spent hours each day playing the game get thrown under the bus, zero *** given. The people that had trust in Zenimax & voted ESO best mmo.

No one cares how much time people spend playing a game. And maybe people shouldn't treat the game developer like their girlfriend or something, talking about trust and lies and commitment.

How can an MMO company commit to anything with such fickle fans, who are ready to leave the game in outrage at the slightest thing?

We all pay the same fee for the same thing: access to the game. Everyone has gotten that, and so everyone has gotten what they paid for. Any issues beyond that are personal.

No one has been ripped off, ZoS is not out to get you.

Can't wait for people to leave so I don't have to read this melodrama here anymore.

Alphashado

Lynnessa wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

So essentially you're getting "Skyrim with friends", while all the dedicated players that spent hours each day playing the game get thrown under the bus, zero *** given. The people that had trust in Zenimax & voted ESO best mmo.

Can't wait for people to leave so I don't have to read this melodrama here anymore.

Oh the melodrama has only just begun. You think it's bad now? You think paying subscribers that were lied to over and over again are dramatic? Just wait until you are surrounded by the F2P/B2P crowd. You got another thing coming if you think it's gonna get better.

Tandor

I believe the game will do just fine, and most of those who have said they are leaving won't actually do so, just like with almost every other similar situation in every other MMO - and there have been plenty of them.

As for those that do leave, again based on past experience with other games, most will return - not least because it's a game they enjoy (which is why they feel so strongly about it) and the temptation to play it when it's free will be sufficient to overcome any principled hurt they may be feeling right now, and which hurt will in any event diminish in time. At some point there'll be some additional content of one sort or another that they read about and that'll draw them back in.

Malpherian

If they get the Justice system (PvP and All) and the Spell-crafting system out + a few balance tweaks within the next 3 months before Ultimate Launch they have a very good chance of recovering. (Possibly the dark brotherhood, thieves guild etc etc)

If not.... and the game releases to console half finished...... This game will fail.

Alphashado

Malpherian wrote: »

If they get the Justice system (PvP and All) and the Spell-crafting system out + a few balance tweaks within the next 3 months before Ultimate Launch they have a very good chance of recovering. (Possibly the dark brotherhood, thieves guild etc etc)

If not.... and the game releases to console half finished...... This game will fail.

That's exactly what is about to happen. But here is the catch - It won't matter. By the time all the new console players get to V1 and realize how much of a grind they face before they can compete in AvA or participate in Trials, it will be too late for them. ZoS already has their box sale money at that point.

Ahdora

Malpherian wrote: »

If they get the Justice system (PvP and All) and the Spell-crafting system out + a few balance tweaks within the next 3 months before Ultimate Launch they have a very good chance of recovering. (Possibly the dark brotherhood, thieves guild etc etc)

If not.... and the game releases to console half finished...... This game will fail.

If you mean the unlimited launch, they won't. That's in less than two months away, and they've already said that no new dlc or big updates are going to happen from 1.6 until after console launch.

As far as the JS, the verbiage they are using makes it sound like the PvP part may not even make it into the game at all.

Samadhi

Ahdora wrote: »

...
As far as the JS, the verbiage they are using makes it sound like the PvP part may not even make it into the game at all.

Really kills the Justice System for me.
Already get my fill of NPC guards in the single player games (frequently still play them, because my net drops off a lot in the winter).
See no appeal to a Justice System with ESO's level of AI. Lead an invincible train of guards through town until they break aggro and rubberband back to their patrol locations.
The dynamics of enforcers vs. criminals in an MMO setting was the largest appeal of the system.

togmb16_ESO

grimjim398 wrote: »

Vulix wrote: »

A lot of people are leaving ESO but I am sure many don't actually want too. We would all love to happily continue playing this game, but now ZOS' actions have pushed many to leave.

For those of you leaving but wish you didn't have too, what would ZOS have to do to recover? Or, have they pushed things too far for you to consider coming back?

Well, I'm deleting three veteran level characters, one at level 49, one at level 32, one at level 10, and two mules who were holding at level 3. I think that answers your question. I don't have any interest in playing an MMO under any pay model other than subscription. Which makes my future as an MMO player pretty bleak, unless I want to return to EVE Online, which I played for 5-6 years (with four accounts, all faithfully paid for each month).

I would like to recomment Wildstar to you, because I really think it's great, and it's sub based, allthough in a rather tough spot at the moment.

But then I would get a lot of flak for liking this poor excuse of a game and I'm a very sensible one, like all my whining on the TESO matter here surely proofs.

So I will not recomment it and I will not offer you a 7 day trial key if you PM me.

bosmern_ESO

When ESO becomes B2P, People who never tried it probably will, and I can guarantee you that people will fall in love with the game like we did and they will sub regaining what was lost.

If people 'lose hope' in ESO because It's going B2P and unsub then that just means they never truly wanted to support ESO.

togmb16_ESO

bosmern_ESO wrote: »

When ESO becomes B2P, People who never tried it probably will, and I can guarantee you that people will fall in love with the game like we did and they will sub regaining what was lost.

I really think my unsubbing will have no impact on the game and a lot more people will join than are currently leaving. My leaving is not about hurting the game you love, it's about receiving the message from ZOS and replying accordingly for all of you that stay behind. I so hope I'm wrong what the future holds for you... honestly!

bosmern_ESO wrote: »

If people 'lose hope' in ESO because It's going B2P and unsub then that just means they never truly wanted to support ESO.

That's really hurtfull from you to say but I will take it like a man. And my membership since january 2014 and the many €uros I spend would like to have a word with you... nope, taking it like the little man I am is the right thing here to do for me. #standsstrong#

Dave2836

SFBryan18 wrote: »

OrangeTheCat wrote: »

cesmode wrote: »

Theres nothing they need to do to recover. There are people coming back to the game already (I am one of them) to replace the people that are leaving. Not to mention, they seem well off enough to release a console version. They must be doing ok.

But dont let the door hit you guys on the way out.

These are the sort of *** that b2p/f2p attracts. Enjoy.

^And these are the *** we're getting rid of. Seems like a good trade.

There sure are a lot of labels and generalizations going around. What you all are forgetting is that a strong playerbase ensures the longevity of a game. And if the playerbase grows large, then so does the game itself. ZOS WANTS you to choose the sub option, no doubt about it. Its only a matter of finding a way to incentivise it over the buy to play option.

The game improved from a bugged gold farming mess to an impressive game. I want to see what comes next.

Aevric

Losing 100 subscribers in order to gain 1000 B2P people (most of whom will spend absolutely no money on the game past the purchase price) seems like silly plan to me.

Ysne58

I still haven't decided whether I am going to continue to subscribe after mine is up the end of March. A great deal depends on whether the liars make any attempt at all to restore my faith.

Decimus_Rex

Darthryan wrote: »

Fix my *** cloak. Fix the view from catapalts. You know stuff I've been complaining about since day one. As it is now, I only log on to sell some stuff. Just seeing how the justice system looks and waitng for a new mmo to play. Any one have a good mmo coming out?

Camelot Unchained

Not very soon but looks great

Watch for it

CaptainObvious

Longevity of this game is going to be based on how fast they can churn out compelling content.

jeevin

Decimus_Rex wrote: »

Darthryan wrote: »

Fix my *** cloak. Fix the view from catapalts. You know stuff I've been complaining about since day one. As it is now, I only log on to sell some stuff. Just seeing how the justice system looks and waitng for a new mmo to play. Any one have a good mmo coming out?

Camelot Unchained

Not very soon but looks great

Watch for it

Yeah I backed Camelot Unchained on kickstarter from the get go. Mark Jacobs and the team there are really community focused and it's all about the game. Can't wait to see how it comes together.

Decimus_Rex

cesmode wrote: »

Theres nothing they need to do to recover. There are people coming back to the game already (I am one of them) to replace the people that are leaving. Not to mention, they seem well off enough to release a console version. They must be doing ok.

But dont let the door hit you guys on the way out.

Yeah they are doing so well they went free to play (buy to play is free to play after a paltry initial sum, which we all paid to get this game in the first place)

Watch how fast you get updates,fixes,content,customer service,GM help or bug killing.

Welcome to RIFT,Aion,AOC ,LotRo and those other dead games with 1k pops hugging the capital cities jumping up and down and RPing for fun

DDuke

jeevin wrote: »

Decimus_Rex wrote: »

Darthryan wrote: »

Fix my *** cloak. Fix the view from catapalts. You know stuff I've been complaining about since day one. As it is now, I only log on to sell some stuff. Just seeing how the justice system looks and waitng for a new mmo to play. Any one have a good mmo coming out?

Camelot Unchained

Not very soon but looks great

Watch for it

Yeah I backed Camelot Unchained on kickstarter from the get go. Mark Jacobs and the team there are really community focused and it's all about the game. Can't wait to see how it comes together.

I'm intrigued, but a little bit afraid to jump in on the bandwagon, considering it initially failed to meet its kickstarter goals.

So it seems like a pretty low budget project, but if ESO has taught me anything, it's that you can't really rely on the IP/budget to deliver a good game either.

Curious to see how it turns out.