Weapon Damage Calculations

one_eye · July 2016

I find myself struggling with why the numbers of weapon damage enchantments are so off.

For example:

I stripped down to nothing, with nothing at all equipped and no skills slotted and no CP points allocated. I only have the Warrior Boon and 64 points allocated to Stamina. I have a base weapon damage of 177.

If I add just my blue Sithis' Ring (which is a level 50, CP160), that has a Weapon Damage Enchantment that adds 174 Weapon Damage, it actually adds 346 weapon damage.

So, it's adding approximately twice what it says it will, (174 x 2 = 348).

But, if I add my purple King of the Dreugh Slayer Ring (also a level 50, CP160 ring), with a Weapon Damage Enchantment that also adds 174 weapon damage, it adds only 184 weapon damage.

I understand these are set pieces with different attributes based on the number of items equipped. But how is ESO arriving at these numbers? Because I'm lost. Is there something really simple I'm missing, or are the weapon damage calculations really that confusing?

Waffennacht · July 2016

Edit: completely misunderstood the question. And now aware of what's going on.

Crazy

one_eye · July 2016

That really doesn't help.

Nestor · July 2016

While being at CP160 should not have this issue, do make sure you are not in a Scaled Zone (and DLC or Cyrodiil) when looking at these things. Battle leveling skews the numbers. Again, you should not have any battle leveling at CP160.

Also, lets make sure we are comparing apples and apples here. King Slayer has a 2 Piece Set bonus to Damage so that can also be a factor. You said you stripped all the way down, but if you have a King Slayer Weapon equipped, that gives a 2 piece Bonus on top of what the Enchantment does. That could be the difference, but the 2 piece bonus should not be that high to begin with

I will have to see what my Sithis Rings do to my Stamina NB and see if the values act like yours do.

SirAndy · July 2016

Nestor wrote: »

That could be the difference, but the 2 piece bonus should not be that high to begin with

You got this backwards. His Dreugh Slayer Ring gives him (close to) the stated tooltip damage but his Sithis' Ring gives him almost twice the stated damage.

one_eye · July 2016

I was in Stormhaven when I added one ring at a time to see what the numbers were doing, so definitely not affected by DLC or Cyrodiil. And yeah, I'm doing this with only one Sithis' ring vs. one Dreugh ring, so I'm not affected by the set bonuses.

Also, aside from unequipping and un-slotting everything (and having zero CP points allocated just for the hell of it), I zeroed out my skill attributes so all three are at 0. So the ONLY thing I have affecting me is the Warrior Boon.

Recap:

My purple, LVL50 CP160, "Ring of the Dreugh King Slayer Ring" with an enchantment that adds 174 weapon damage actually adds 184 weapon damage.

My blue, LVL50 CP160, "Sithis Ring" with an enchantment that adds 174 weapon damage actually adds 346 weapon damage.

So as far as I can tell, we're definitely doing apples to apples.

EDIT: And for what it's worth, I'm a Nord Templar. Again, no idea if that's affecting anything, but just for the sake of trying to figure this out.

Solariken · July 2016

Hmm, that is strange, but I've definitely seen my character sheet show some really wonky figures. You can force it to update with weapon swap - make sure you do your testing with a back bar weapon and swap twice every time you add a new piece of gear to make sure it is displaying the correct figures.

Nestor · July 2016

SirAndy wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

That could be the difference, but the 2 piece bonus should not be that high to begin with

You got this backwards. His Dreugh Slayer Ring gives him (close to) the stated tooltip damage but his Sithis' Ring gives him almost twice the stated damage.

That is what I get for doing a network design and posting at the same time......

I am going to have to check, but if Sithis gives me that big a boost, I might have to start using my Purple ones.....

I also wonder what would happen if the Enchantment was swapped out....

hrothbern · July 2016

Solariken wrote: »

Hmm, that is strange, but I've definitely seen my character sheet show some really wonky figures. You can force it to update with weapon swap - make sure you do your testing with a back bar weapon and swap twice every time you add a new piece of gear to make sure it is displaying the correct figures.

I remembered an old bug with Jewelry enchants at the beginning of the game for some Jewelry items

And I checked out just now whether what you @one_eye describe could be that old bug.

And it is indeed the same old bug that allows to have TWO enchants on a piece of Jewelry: the old one plus the one you put on it.
It also does not precisely add up the old and the new value, but you get a slightly higher value.

What I did just now:
I puchased a blue CP-160 Sithis Ring (for 200 gold) that gives 153 Weapon Damage
I made a purple glyph of Physical Harm that gives 160 Weapon Damage
I slotted the Ring
I enchanted the Sithis Ring, while slotted, with the new Glyph and the tooltip states nicely the 160 Weapon Damage

So... I would expect that The total Weapon Damage in my Character overview would increase by 7 Weapon Damage

The Weapon Damage on my overview did however increase with 168 !!!
And when I remove the Ring from my character the overview shows 329 less Weapon Damage.

Above is ofc the precise recipe for an exploit, but there will be too many people reading the OP's post that will immediately remember the old bug and try out what I just did.

So.. ZOS should remedy this quickly AND also check what other recent Jewelry has the same bug !!!!

EDIT
@Nestor ,
Who would be the right person to contact to get this fixed ?

Nestor · July 2016

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

We have a possible Exploit here with some Jewelry and Enchants with double enchant effects being applied to a character.

Nestor · July 2016

hrothbern wrote: »

EDIT
@Nestor ,
Who would be the right person to contact to get this fixed ?

@hrothbern

Since your in a Testing Frame of mind, what happens if you say remove the ring, relog, then put the ring back on, do you get the single enchantment, or the double? I won't be home for another hour to try this myself and see what happens.

hrothbern · July 2016

Nestor wrote: »

hrothbern wrote: »

EDIT
@Nestor ,
Who would be the right person to contact to get this fixed ?

@hrothbern

Since your in a Testing Frame of mind, what happens if you say remove the ring, relog, then put the ring back on, do you get the single enchantment, or the double? I won't be home for another hour to try this myself and see what happens.

oops

I just destroyed the Sithis Ring.

But I rembember of the old bug that you could not remove the bug from the Ring

Anyway... I will do it again and test if your suggestion works

hrothbern · July 2016

Nestor wrote: »

hrothbern wrote: »

EDIT
@Nestor ,
Who would be the right person to contact to get this fixed ?

@hrothbern

Since your in a Testing Frame of mind, what happens if you say remove the ring, relog, then put the ring back on, do you get the single enchantment, or the double? I won't be home for another hour to try this myself and see what happens.

Made another Sithis Ring with double enchant.
The doubling effect does not disappear after remove and relog.
I also tested out enchanting with two totally other kinds of enchants: no reset.

yeah
So you got your much desired Jewelry
You put your purple or gold own enchant on it to improve it a bit
and now you have a piece of Jewelry that is cheesy to use
but destroying it is another thing.

So I tested out one more thing for those people that are stuck with a corrupted piece of Jewelry but do not want to play with cheesy stuff.

I made a Trifling Glyph of increase Weapon Damage for a tooltip value of 17 WD.
And enchanted the Sithis Ring with that Glyph.
The total effect in my character overview became an improvement of 171 WD (close to the gold 174 max possible)

So... although you cannot overwrite the original enchant, you can overwrite your self applied enchant and tune the total effect to a decent Weapon Damage value.
But this does not help ofc if you intended to put for example a sustain recovery enchant on it...

my 2 cents.
I guess it is up to ZOS now

Lexxypwns · July 2016

Incoming 10k Spell damage exploit builds

one_eye · July 2016

It sounds like we're pointing to a bug as the culprit here.

The most important thing for me here is knowing that I'm not just really, really bad at math.

Grawlog · July 2016

I have similar issues when calculating bonuses from gear and passives. I can never get the math to work out how I expect it to. I just gave up trying to figure it out.

ZOS_JessicaFolsom · July 2016

We're looking into this, and will respond with more details (hopefully today.)

one_eye · July 2016

hrothbern wrote: »

What I did just now:
I puchased a blue CP-160 Sithis Ring (for 200 gold) that gives 153 Weapon Damage
I made a purple glyph of Physical Harm that gives 160 Weapon Damage
I slotted the Ring
I enchanted the Sithis Ring, while slotted, with the new Glyph and the tooltip states nicely the 160 Weapon Damage

So... I would expect that The total Weapon Damage in my Character overview would increase by 7 Weapon Damage

The Weapon Damage on my overview did however increase with 168 !!!
And when I remove the Ring from my character the overview shows 329 less Weapon Damage.

Thanks for doing that. I was not aware there was this "double enchantment" bug/exploit. I certainly wasn't trying to exploit weapon damage, I was just trying to sort out these numbers!

Again, I'm just glad there's an answer.

ZOS_JessicaFolsom · July 2016

Thanks for reporting this, everyone. We looked at this, and you are not actually getting double the enchantment benefits when you do this—the same goes for rumors that you can also do this with Veteran Maelstrom Arena weapons. What you’re seeing on your character sheet is purely a UI bug, so the numbers on your character menu are reflecting double the benefit, but the game is only applying the newest enchantment benefit. We will be fixing this UI bug in a future patch.

hrothbern · July 2016

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Thanks for reporting this, everyone. We looked at this, and you are not actually getting double the enchantment benefits when you do this—the same goes for rumors that you can also do this with Veteran Maelstrom Arena weapons. What you’re seeing on your character sheet is purely a UI bug, so the numbers on your character menu are reflecting double the benefit, but the game is only applying the newest enchantment benefit. We will be fixing this UI bug in a future patch.

thanks for the clarification

Panth141 · July 2016

@hrothbern @Nestor @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

I've just tested this out and indeed it does increase your Weapon Damage by both enchantments.

However, I also did a quick rudimentary damage test, and it seems to be only a UI error - the actual damage values using the 'exploit' ring (153 WD Glyph + 160 WD Glyph, stacking on character sheet) were almost identical to a 'non-exploit' ring (160 WD glyph, expected character stats). The minor discrepancy (<10 damage) was, I expect, due to the 20 max stamina difference as one ring was blue, the other purple - both robust.

Would appreciate if someone could test this more precisely, as I don't have the time right now.

EDIT:

Dammit, Jess, couldn't have waited a couple of minutes, could you

Good to know, thanks!

Waffennacht · July 2016

So I've always upgraded gear while wearing it. Does this mean potentially my weapon damage etc is inflated ?

Like if I have my transmutation ring on, upgraded the weapon damage (let's just say I had a weapon dmg glyph on previously) am I now getting more weapon dmg than I should? (I realize i had a magicka regen on previously but the question can still stand for theory purposes)

ZOS_JessicaFolsom · July 2016

Panth141 wrote: »

EDIT:

Dammit, Jess, couldn't have waited a couple of minutes, could you
Good to know, thanks!

Haha sorry! You guys are ace at testing this stuff, and we do really appreciate it.

Just wanted to get the word out so people don't nuke really awesome enchants thinking they're getting double the benefit.

hrothbern · July 2016

Panth141 wrote: »

@hrothbern @Nestor @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

I've just tested this out and indeed it does increase your Weapon Damage by both enchantments.

However, I also did a quick rudimentary damage test, and it seems to be only a UI error - the actual damage values using the 'exploit' ring (153 WD Glyph + 160 WD Glyph, stacking on character sheet) were almost identical to a 'non-exploit' ring (160 WD glyph, expected character stats). The minor discrepancy (<10 damage) was, I expect, due to the 20 max stamina difference as one ring was blue, the other purple - both robust.

Would appreciate if someone could test this more precisely, as I don't have the time right now.

EDIT:

Dammit, Jess, couldn't have waited a couple of minutes, could you
Good to know, thanks!

one_eye · July 2016

@hrothbern @Nestor @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

Thanks all for looking into this!

vpadget9592b14_ESO · July 2016

Sometimes I wonder if people say it's only a UI issue just to calm the masses until the next patch fixes such a big balance changer.

susmitds · July 2016

vpadget9592b14_ESO wrote: »

Sometimes I wonder if people say it's only a UI issue just to calm the masses until the next patch fixes such a big balance changer.

The set is so weak that it hardly matters. If fact even if it did give dual stats, then also Hunding's Rage, Skirmisher etc would be much stronger.

cschwingeb14_ESO · July 2016

Weakness of the set wouldn't matter. 3x no-set jewelry with double enchants would be very worth wearing. Even if it was just blue