How is DPS this low on CP 500+ toons?

Linaleah · October 2020

Grianasteri wrote: »

novemberhhh wrote: »

Well since pvp cp and slimecraw are "cheese" to some heres more or less the same thing with actual pve cp.
17k this time (~+2k dps over the last)

Had to self ele drain as well since its early here and no one on the friends list is on, rip. So I didn't actually go afk this time.
Gear was still new moon (craftable), mother's sorrow (overland/buyable), and zaan since yes, healers should provide minor berserk

pve cp for those wondering:

and yes, a coffee cup could still hold down lmb as well as i could (but again, it's early so its still in use)

edit: To clarify, the point is that hitting practically zero dps is certainly a "put on actual dps gear, and dont be afk 98% of the time" issue.

Honestly, genuinly dont understand what you think you are proving with such parses. I think I have rebutted matters enough in my other comments. But, I mean, Zaan, a set completely and utterly out of reach for the vast majority of average, casual gamers, who are literally the folk were talking about here. Geez.

I mean, you can luck out and buy it from a gold vendor, but otherwise - yep, pretty much

also, thank you for explaining the disparity of how I was doing exactly the same thing as this guy, and yet getting much lower result, EVEN while wearing decent sets, using the same class etc.

but seriously... a lot of people here severely underestimate just how much movement can cut into personal output in this game for people like me.

Linaleah · October 2020

SilverBride wrote: »

I think it would be helpful to have a training area similar to what WoW had. It required you to pass simulated situations before you could queue for more difficult content. You could still do the content with a group, but couldn't queue for a random until you passed it.

I don't think we should be locked behind these, but it would let you know what content you are able to run adequately, and when you are ready for harder content.

I genuinely, honestly loved the short time when WoW required you to pass one of those before being able to queue up for heroic (aka vet version for wow).

but... and this is a big one...

wow combat is far FAR more forgiving than that of ESO. like... so much more forgiving. for all that people talk about how ESO trials (raids) are so easy and how end game content is not as challenging as wow... WoW provides a lot of end game content that is extremely accessible in part BECAUSE of how forgiving the combat is. rotations are still important. proper talent allocation is still important. but.
1. combat is slower because there IS no weaving. you have auto attacks for most classes/specs (with exception of ranged casters) which take place of basic attacks of ESO and they fire automatically. and your cooldowns cannot be circumvented with exception of occasional buffs that have multi minute cooldowns and interrupts/stuns.
2. there is no dodging, rolling or sprinting as baseline, so bad tends to give you more time to move out of it, since you have to run out at normal speed
3. this one is important - you select your targets and they are permanently selected so unless you are facing away from them, your attacks WILL always hit those targets.
4. as a tank - you have AoE taunt and just baseline extra threat built into every attack you make as long as you are in tank spec.
5. as a healer - you do need to select your targets manually to heal even for many of the AoE heals, very few heals are of smart variety, BUT... WoW has mouseover healing and in many ways good use of triage allows to prioritize necessary targets instead of "smart" heals bouncing to the wrong ones because they were closer.

so what does this all mean? learning to pass basic tutorials and understanding how roles work (which still exist btw, they are just not mandatory anymore) doesn't take nearly as long as it does in ESO. and your performance from basic learning is going to be MUCH higher then ESO because baseline performance in WoW doesn't require nearly as much practice.

last but not least. because of how skill lines in ESO work, that whole every class can learn every skill line deal.... specs constantly change. every balance pass, ever gear adjustment - what works and what doesn't and in combination with what - shifts. and because there are so many variations that are possible, it can be confusing trying to figure out what is good and what just sounds good on paper. ESO has skill advisor. give me a single experienced player who agrees with what skill advisor is suggesting.

in WoW. when I select a healing spec (and I have to have or be in healing spec in order to queue up as a healer - and not every class has one available) - I am given a full complement of healing abilities. I don't have to slot a weapon to level them, I don't have to figure out that... just leveling up does NOT level up my skill lines - i have to slot specific abilities and it will ONLY level those abilities, I do not have to deal with figuring out which morph to chose, and some of those morphs are less obvious then others.

ESO is simultaneously one of the more casual friendly games AND one of the most convolutedly complex and unfriendly ones.

Khazek · October 2020

This might sound strange and come as a surprise but some people are good players and some people are bad players. Like any other activity on planet earth.

ForeverJenn · October 2020

Khazek wrote: »

This might sound strange and come as a surprise but some people are good players and some people are bad players. Like any other activity on planet earth.

With dps that low, I'm led to believe they aren't even playing. That's why I'm asking HOW is dps that low and suggesting they're bots.

SidraWillowsky · October 2020

Khazek wrote: »

This might sound strange and come as a surprise but some people are good players and some people are bad players. Like any other activity on planet earth.

Yes, but if you join as a group it's your responsibility to at least be semi-able to help the group. If I (DD) get grouped with another DD whose DPS isn't great, I am usually able to carry and really do not care or judge. But there are some fights with DPS checks (Zaan and Valkyn Skoria come to mind) where I may not be able to do so.

That said, I can imagine that many players likely don't *know* how well they're doing/not doing and what they're contributing to group DPS. When I first started playing I was doing 2.5k DPS at CP 220 or so. I didn't know about addons, rotations, gear, and helpful CP allocation. As long as the other DD in my group had semi-decent DPS, I didn't know that I was pulling such low DPS because the enemies were dying regardless. I had mismatched, poorly-traited gear, no monster helm, and I think I had all of my CP in Physical Weapons Expert, but I never light attacked, so it didn't really help. I don't think I even had a Mundus stone.

The bottom line is that the game does a shoddy job of teaching these things. Weapon damage vs. spell damage vs. physical penetration vs. spell critical etc. etc. How light attacks are calculated. Layering DoTs and using a spammable. When and why to use certain Mundus stones and gear traits; I could go on for a very long time. It all seems rather inconsequential when you see it for the first time (a glyph adds 174 weapon damage? That seems small and what does it even mean?). Even now, ZOS never seems to explain this, and it seems like it's generally up to the player base to figure this out on their own.

I think that if the only experiences that you have that show you that you're not doing great involve other players telling you you're awful, you're less likely to want to get good because it seems so elitist. I remember hitting 12kish and pugging a vet Darkshade II, not realizing that it's got some soft DPS checks. The tank got mad and insulted the crap out of us (the other DD didn't pull great DPS either, so the Netch fight was especially brutal), and all it did was put me on the defensive. While I tend to be team "it seems literally impossible to have your DPS that low" here -not in a disparaging way, I just cannot actually fathom that it's possible- I can see where many people here are coming from.

I like to help people as much as possible, so if you're PC/NA and you need anything at all -gear, potions, vet dungeon runs, food, help with your rotation- please feel free to message me here or in-game (@AeiaTheHuntress, yes that's an i in Aeia). @Raideen I would love to help you and your GF get monster sets and to help her out with DPS in a "safe" setting. I'll bring another guildie to the dungeons so there are no randos and no potential for any sort of judgment- we don't allow that sort of toxic elitism. Dunno what spec your GF uses (mag vs. stam), but either way, even a semi-decent monster set will boost her DPS enormously.

ForeverJenn · October 2020

SidraWillowsky wrote: »

Khazek wrote: »

This might sound strange and come as a surprise but some people are good players and some people are bad players. Like any other activity on planet earth.

Yes, but if you join as a group it's your responsibility to at least be semi-able to help the group. If I (DD) get grouped with another DD whose DPS isn't great, I am usually able to carry and really do not care or judge. But there are some fights with DPS checks (Zaan and Valkyn Skoria come to mind) where I may not be able to do so.

That said, I can imagine that many players likely don't *know* how well they're doing/not doing and what they're contributing to group DPS. When I first started playing I was doing 2.5k DPS at CP 220 or so. I didn't know about addons, rotations, gear, and helpful CP allocation. As long as the other DD in my group had semi-decent DPS, I didn't know that I was pulling such low DPS because the enemies were dying regardless. I had mismatched, poorly-traited gear, no monster helm, and I think I had all of my CP in Physical Weapons Expert, but I never light attacked, so it didn't really help. I don't think I even had a Mundus stone.

The bottom line is that the game does a shoddy job of teaching these things. Weapon damage vs. spell damage vs. physical penetration vs. spell critical etc. etc. How light attacks are calculated. Layering DoTs and using a spammable. When and why to use certain Mundus stones and gear traits; I could go on for a very long time. It all seems rather inconsequential when you see it for the first time (a glyph adds 174 weapon damage? That seems small and what does it even mean?). Even now, ZOS never seems to explain this, and it seems like it's generally up to the player base to figure this out on their own.

I think that if the only experiences that you have that show you that you're not doing great involve other players telling you you're awful, you're less likely to want to get good because it seems to elitist. I remember hitting 12kish and pugging a vet Darkshade II, not realizing that it's got some soft DPS checks. The tank got mad and insulted the crap out of us (the other DD didn't pull great DPS either, so the Netch fight was especially brutal), and all it did was put me on the defensive. While I tend to be team "it seems literally impossible to have your DPS that low" here -not in a disparaging way, I just cannot actually fathom that it's possible- I can see where many people here are coming from.

I like to help people as much as possible, so if you're PC/NA and you need anything at all -gear, potions, vet dungeon runs, food, help with your rotation- please feel free to message me here or in-game (@AeiaTheHuntress, yes that's an i in Aeia). @Raideen I would love to help you and your GF get monster sets and to help her out with DPS in a "safe" setting. I'll bring another guildie to the dungeons so there are no randos and no potential for any sort of judgment- we don't allow that sort of toxic elitism. Dunno what spec your GF uses (mag vs. stam), but either way, even a semi-decent monster set will boost her DPS enormously.

Yes. Great comment. I'm in agreeance. I think a lot people are getting offended that I'm asking this. I'm trying to understand what the problem is. I could get easily leave the dungeon. I could easily put on a destro staff. These are things I understand. I am trying to gauge what the issues might be when group dps is lower than say a single two year old mashing buttons. If I understand how this is happening, then I can suggest some things. I'm not a dpser, tho. I can't break 20k. I genuinely do not understand dps. But I know 1k dps per person is abysmal. So maybe I'm not the right person to guage what's going wrong. Hence, Im asking on the forum.

ForeverJenn · October 2020

@novemberhhh Iirc, you were coffee mug test guy. What's the dps at when you actively input in that build? I am curious as to what skill vs build/gear is here.

Kurat · October 2020

Alot of times bad group is to blame for bad dps. If support doesn't do their job or the other dps needs rezing all the time then group dps will plummet. Individually the dps maybe able to parse decent numbers but in group content and with mechs to deal with you can't expect the same results. Many tanks and healers have only played support role and sometimes don't understand dps. I'm not sure what dungeons people in this thread are talking about but in vet dlc ones you cant expect any great dps numbers with pugs if even 1 player is mediocre or new to that dungeon.

Great example of "low dps" from today's pledge vCoS HM last boss. It's one of the easiest dlc dungeon and I can parse 80k on dummy. But from tanks perspective I'm trash. Tank only taunted the boss, adds running all over. Healer always died to mechs or aoe idk in less than 10 sec. Then the other dps died. I'm bringing adds close to tank so he can grab them but no he doesn't. So I'm trying to rez others while being attacked buy adds and dodging aoes. I get 1 rezed and before I get the other, the 1st one dies again. Between rezes I manage to apply few dots on boss but the tank is doing most of the dps lol. Few times I died myself while trying to rez others. Eventually we got it done and group dps was 14k and I did 10 of it. And now the tank is probably complaining in this thread lol.
With the right group I can do trifecta runs back to back. I've helped many people get their skin. The whole group working together is the key for vet dlcs. If 1 is bad at their role then things go south quick. I'm not saying that all the support roles complaining in this thread are bad but ask yourself if you have created "safe environment" for the dps to do dmg before calling them out. Dps can't do much dmg if they only have to rolldodge attacks and spam self heals.

Ps I could have let others stay dead and dps the boss but if we wiped then I've been blamed for that before and even kicked.

novemberhhh · October 2020

@ForeverJenn I posted a 90k parse a page back or so (and a log report of ~75k iirc), in actual content it can go higher or lower depending on all kinds of group factors. Higher just comes from supports (tanks and healers) providing even more buffs/debuffs than that target atro (it has a lot of them, but not all), lower is usually from actively having to stop dps on the boss and do mechanics, or rez, or... well about anything other than dps.

But yea my tank also pulls about 4k dps (mostly from lightning blockade and alkosh procs), so dps roles expecting a vet hardmode trial tank (whose primary job is to hold aggro/stack adds/buff group/debuff 100-300 million hp bosses) to dps carry them isnt really realistic in eso... the mechanics of buliding for these 2 roles dont overlap at all (unlike healer/dps, which -can- both scale off max mag/spell dmg/spell crit)

edit: If you meant how much a heavy attack build can potentially pull i honestly dont know, heavy attacks gross me out. Build was just to demonstrate a kind of "floor" level of dps, as opposed to the top "ceiling" parses we always see, so that players should fall somewhere in between (as long as theyre in some sort of gear that makes sense anyway)

barney2525 · October 2020

AndrewQ84 wrote: »

I've said this before many many times. High CP means NOTHING! Skill in a class is not determined by cp, it's the player. Never assume that just because you have high cp toons in your party that it will go smoothly. [snip]

[Edited to remove Baiting]

Well, if the toons are going into a fight High, that could be the problem

Araneae6537 · October 2020

I know another way that a tank can do most of the DPS: You’re a fully optimized experienced beast in legendary gear and run ahead, plowing through all enemies before your teammates can even grab the quest or know what’s going on. Seriously, why are you doing normal dungeons instead of vet??? Normal are for learning, using a fun build, etc. I have no idea what my DPS is on any character; I don’t parse as that just makes it not fun for me.

I’m not saying OP did this and most people are considerate if you say you need to grab the quest, but there are some people...

Araneae6537 · October 2020

SilverBride wrote: »

ForeverJenn wrote: »

Why an actually dps role can't out dps a tank is why I'm asking this in the first place.

And that is what we are trying to explain.

I am CP 550 +. I don't know what my dps is. I have the Precursor you can get in Clockwork City that I've tested it on, but I don't know what level mob he represents. I average 6 to 9k on my 3 characters, with my Stamina Nightblade performing best. Yet I am still hesitant to try a dungeon, not because people will think I stink as much as because I want to be able to carry my own weight. Threads like this make me even more hesitant to give it a try.

Also, the Precursor just stands there. He doesn't move, or fight back, or cast AOEs I have to move out of, so I don't know how accurate this really is.

Try them with friends or guildies first who know you’re new. I was nervous to try at first too! Since then, I’m more relaxed now and PUG a lot and most of the time it is a fun experience, really!

Occasionally you will encounter a rude person, but there are a lot of great helpful people too!

SilverBride · October 2020

Araneae6537 wrote: »

Try them with friends or guildies first who know you’re new. I was nervous to try at first too! Since then, I’m more relaxed now and PUG a lot and most of the time it is a fun experience, really! Occasionally you will encounter a rude person, but there are a lot of great helpful people too!

I think I may try that. I learned a couple of things from this thread that I tried out tonight on the Precursor that made a big difference.

I didn't know about light attack weaving, so I fought him first with my normal rotation. I did around 9k dps and ran out of stamina. Next I tried light attack weaving, and did around 12k dps and didn't deplete my stamina. So I feel a lot more confident than I did before.

Drdeath20 · October 2020

I log on and say to myself "im gonna give tanking a try tonight, i havent done it in weeks".

Instantly que up only to be in a group with 1 of 3 scenarios

1. Its an easy dungeon but the dps is soo low that it takes forever to get through it and i know deep down that i, as the tank, am doing most of the groups damage.
2. In a very tough dungeon and we are struggling to get by trash mobs. This is probably the best case scenario bcz i can just quit with the least amount of time wasted.
3. In a subpar group that blames all the problems on the tank, while breaking every cardinal sin that a dungeon teamate could break. Oh you ran ahead and pulled all the trash, oh you have a sword and shield slotted, oh you are standing in stupid, oh you dont know the dungeon mechanics...

LashanW · October 2020

ForeverJenn wrote: »

[With dps that low, I'm led to believe they aren't even playing. That's why I'm asking HOW is dps that low and suggesting they're bots.

I've only seen bots in overland farming materials, on rare cases I see them in public dungeons. I've never seen bots in group dungeons. I don't think it's possible to do less than 3-4k dps on single target as a DD if you search about how to do dps in ESO. Only a very clueless person can go that low, or someone with physical problems or it could even be someone looking to get carried. This stuff is to be expected in normal content, because someone starting out the DD role might not know that in-game support/tutorial for learning how to do proper dps is practically non-existent. They might not realize that they have to refer to outside sources to learn how to do dps in this game.

I've been playing this game for 3 years now and I spent the first 1.5 years tanking, I loved it. But then I wanted to try the DD role so I made a magSorc and a stamblade DD. By this time I was already close to max CP, but my dps was pretty disappointing (according to combat metrics addon most of the time my dps was around ~20% group dps, don't remember exact numbers but it was real bad. I remember how ashamed I was). I tried out a lot of different sets and skills but it didn't improve that much. Then I talked to some experienced DDs in my social guild (I was so ready to go back and stick with the tank role), they gave me a lot of advice. Only then I realized I need to refer to outside sources in order to understand how dps and combat mechanics work in this game (not stuff like basic combat maneuvers like block, dodge but stuff like how your stats affect your dmg and how to optimize your own rotation, I hadn't even heard about light attack weaving before). I've been playing for almost 2 years and was max CP when I finally learned how to be a proper DD. Now my dps is pretty good.

novemberhhh wrote: »

But yea my tank also pulls about 4k dps (mostly from lightning blockade and alkosh procs), so dps roles expecting a vet hardmode trial tank (whose primary job is to hold aggro/stack adds/buff group/debuff 100-300 million hp bosses) to dps carry them isnt really realistic in eso...

100% agree on this. @ForeverJenn If you want keep pugging dungeons as a tank in normal content, there's no way you can avoid running into abysmal dps groups. So I suggest you keep 2 different setups on your tank. 1 setup is the true tank setup (whatever you are currently running). The other setup is a dps-tank hyrbid setup. You can switch between the two setups according the performance of the random groups you encounter (Dressing Room addon will allow you swap setups with the single click of a button). Easiest way to do a dps-hybrid setup is to use proc sets, so you don't need DD skills.
Here's a setup I used a long time ago (should still work nice, a bit better even, now that proc chances are removed from most sets)

Base game monster set and two heavy armor (so you will still be quite tanky) overland sets, should be super easy / cheap to get.

Make sure to have your blue CPs adjusted for elemental damage, spell penetration and direct damage attacks. You won't have to worry about other DPS stats (like crits and weapon/spell dmg) as proc sets aren't affected by them. All you need to do is to stack the mobs and use a dmg shield ability. (especially chain in the ranged ones, you don't wanna watch your flaming mortar shells launching at one lone archer in the distance). Then just watch your proc sets do the dmg for you. It's a pretty fun way to tank.

Grandchamp1989 · October 2020

Tsar_Gekkou wrote: »

dazee wrote: »

ForeverJenn wrote: »

Yeah. It's just 3k group dps means there's 4 people doing 600dps. Maybe afkers on some auto follow.

Don't remember you saying 3k group dps. I've never seen that ever. I've had groups in which I was doing 80% of the dps as healer, but in any dungeon where that's possible to clear with, you don't need to do much healing and don't even need to keep anyone other than yourself alive.

You'd be surprised at the amount of potatos there are in non-dlc vet dungeons that die if you take your heals off of them for 2 seconds. Whenever you try to do more dps to pick up their slack, they wind up almost dead so you have to hard-focus them with heals. Thankfully normal dungeons don't have this problem, but things die fast enough there anyway so it's not a problem anyway because normals are for people to learn. Unfortunately, plenty of people just jump into vet without knowing the basics of the game.

lol this is the truth right here.

Grandchamp1989 · October 2020

I'm one who think more effort needs to be done to lift DPS, because it's for the most part atrocious.
And if 80% of PUGS is super low damage that's not only the fault of noobs but it's also on ZoS to better teach their mechanics and for the community to help teach players.

When we have to analyze normal DPS we have to be fair in our assesment.

OP made it clear we're talking about Normal dungeons.

"Several times, while doing my random normal dungeons"

For people below CP160 you can't expect any sort of gear at all, since they haven't hit armor cap they'll just wear whatever trash they find and slap together.

Also you can't compare a meta CP 810 with CP500 who doesn't know what he's doing and you definitely can't compare it with a level 45 with no CP points.

If people really want to see what they're doing on a dummy put yourself into a "newbie doing normal dungeon's" situation:

-Wear some random armor pieces that doesn't give full 5 piece bonus
-Use random sub-uptimal traits, don't add new glyphs to it
-Remove your CP points
-Don't use pets for your passive DOTs (half the classes don't have access to pets to do their damage for them)
-Don't use monster helmet (It's normal dungeons afterall we're talking about)

The above are all crutches and doesn't define skills (knowledge of skills, buffs, applying DOTS, spammable, weaving)

What numbers can you pull here standing still doing heavy attacks? 3k? That would be my guess. Maybe less.

If PUG players was taught much better how to do damage my random normals wouldn't be sitting at 10k group.

Even DD players with no CP/bad gear/no monster helmet can pull 10k by their own if they applied DOTS with their spammable. If they used food and weaving they might even pull 15k. CP810 players forget how much help they get from their CP, armor and monster helmets and it's a luxuary noobs don't have.

In conclusion the average player really need much more knowledge but don't ever compare uptimal CP810 with low level/CP noobs. The "I can do 20k just applying dots and light attacks" is a really misleading argument.

TheRealDrRat · October 2020

Dude trust me when I say this happens to me at least 5-times a week. I normally play with guild mates, but sometimes I play late at night so I have to match-make. I play only tank; never played DPS or Heals. The reason why their DPS is so low is because they are only doing heavy attacks with a rare use of abilities. In all honesty though, it's not really their fault. Zenimax made the game very new player "unfriendly" - you really need a higher leveled more experienced friend to help you get started.

novemberhhh · October 2020

Uh before i hit level 50 i was crafting mediocre set gear til i finally unlocked the brand new and meta (at the time) 6-trait julianos set. At cp160 i went and bought that new willpower jewelry set and farmed silk to finally have some kind of dps gear at max level. So if someone isn't using any gear set at their level then thats the player just not paying attention, or more likely not caring. They didn't have these level up tips that literally tell you to go craft gear with the free mats they just give you back then either.

edit: typos

svendf · October 2020

NightSky wrote: »

That's nothing.. you know what's worst when your Healer turns into a werewolf, your tank has 14k hp and the dps is heavy armor, using a restro staff and a two handed sword on the backbar.

hahaha lul had two dd´s who went Ww once tank left and so did I

ForeverJenn · October 2020

Araneae6537 wrote: »

I know another way that a tank can do most of the DPS: You’re a fully optimized experienced beast in legendary gear and run ahead, plowing through all enemies before your teammates can even grab the quest or know what’s going on. Seriously, why are you doing normal dungeons instead of vet??? Normal are for learning, using a fun build, etc. I have no idea what my DPS is on any character; I don’t parse as that just makes it not fun for me.

I’m not saying OP did this and most people are considerate if you say you need to grab the quest, but there are some people...

Ok but no. I'm on a lvl 45 tank in training gear with ppl over CP 500

ForeverJenn · October 2020

Drdeath20 wrote: »

I log on and say to myself "im gonna give tanking a try tonight, i havent done it in weeks".

Instantly que up only to be in a group with 1 of 3 scenarios

1. Its an easy dungeon but the dps is soo low that it takes forever to get through it and i know deep down that i, as the tank, am doing most of the groups damage.
2. In a very tough dungeon and we are struggling to get by trash mobs. This is probably the best case scenario bcz i can just quit with the least amount of time wasted.
3. In a subpar group that blames all the problems on the tank, while breaking every cardinal sin that a dungeon teamate could break. Oh you ran ahead and pulled all the trash, oh you have a sword and shield slotted, oh you are standing in stupid, oh you dont know the dungeon mechanics...

You forgot #4- You get put in as a replacement and quickly realize why the first guy left. 😂

MudcrabAttack · October 2020

This game has a real time combat feel, which makes it an amazing game. You can play overland content and feel powerful as you slay enemies at the same pace as all the other elder scrolls games with a build that involves launching fireballs and bleeding enemies with dual wield axes while healing yourself with a magic ability. But all that changes inside a group dungeon as enemy health scales to much higher levels. Dungeons are balanced around what the min-max players are doing.

And it mostly comes down to practice. Hours and hours, and few people have the drive to do it. When the 3million target dummy first came out I was getting 9k dps with an online build, and I was already weaving light attacks between skills at the time. It was extremely demoralizing to see such a low number. Then a week later it was 20k dps. Several months later it was 30kdps. Every so often I would practice the rotation and kill it a few times. It all adds up over time as you go from hitting a skill every 1.8 seconds to using a combination of light attack+ skill once every second in the correct order, and no other game has this level of demand on a damage dealer to learn a style of playing. When the dps [snip] trial atronach came out I was hitting 85k, but I had years of practice by then.

You can get something like a 500% increase in damage when going from randomly spaced skills / light attacks / heavy attacks to a tightly packed rotation with light attack weaving.

There might be a 100% increase when switching from random sets of green/blue gear to the best sets with the best traits and glyphs.

CP distribution can theoretically be another 30-40%, but you would literally have gone from all healing blue CPs to all damage dealing CP. In other words it's not the CP.

[Edited to remove Inappropriate Content]

ForeverJenn · October 2020

TheRealDrRat wrote: »

Dude trust me when I say this happens to me at least 5-times a week. I normally play with guild mates, but sometimes I play late at night so I have to match-make. I play only tank; never played DPS or Heals. The reason why their DPS is so low is because they are only doing heavy attacks with a rare use of abilities. In all honesty though, it's not really their fault. Zenimax made the game very new player "unfriendly" - you really need a higher leveled more experienced friend to help you get started.

Yeah. Those empty boxes at the bottom of your screen aren't just for decoration. Problem is, I find the players who don't know what they're doing to be more toxic more often. Say getting put in as a replacement for someone that left, "Hey ____, what you having trouble with?" Followed by:

"STOP BLAMING OTHERS. EVERYONE IS TO BLAME!!!!!"

Well, guess I'm sitting in the Abandonment CD again.

Brenticus12 · October 2020

MudcrabAttack wrote: »

Dungeons are balanced around what the min-max players are doing.

[Edited to remove Inappropriate Content]

The only content truly balanced around min-maxers is vet trials.

I didn't read every post on this thread so I'm not sure who you were referring to but, OP was talking about random normals. This is NOT something you ever have to min max to do decently at. A majority of these players don't move at all. That isn't about "min maxing". This is just about literally being so lazy that you don't want to play the game.

I've been leveling up several tanks and healers and choosing to do random normals as a full support just so I can get used to my skills but towards the last few levels I've been fake tanking everything because I cannot handle the number of players, both below 50 and well into 500+CP being absolutely *** at the game.

I've gone through nWayrest2 so many times and every single time none of the pugs do the altar thing during the first boss even after I explain it. They just don't say anything in chat either. It astounds me how insane this is. And this is just one small example. There are a ton of things that make me suspect something more insidious.

These players are literally bots, there isn't any other explanation to it. I can't imagine any living human who's capable of playing video games actually playing like this. I can understand if they're old/extremely young or they're disabled, but are there really that many of them in every single dungeon queue? That doesn't make any sense at all.

barney2525 · October 2020

ForeverJenn wrote: »

Drdeath20 wrote: »

I log on and say to myself "im gonna give tanking a try tonight, i havent done it in weeks".

Instantly que up only to be in a group with 1 of 3 scenarios

1. Its an easy dungeon but the dps is soo low that it takes forever to get through it and i know deep down that i, as the tank, am doing most of the groups damage.
2. In a very tough dungeon and we are struggling to get by trash mobs. This is probably the best case scenario bcz i can just quit with the least amount of time wasted.
3. In a subpar group that blames all the problems on the tank, while breaking every cardinal sin that a dungeon teamate could break. Oh you ran ahead and pulled all the trash, oh you have a sword and shield slotted, oh you are standing in stupid, oh you dont know the dungeon mechanics...

You forgot #4- You get put in as a replacement and quickly realize why the first guy left. 😂

Now THAT's funny - true, but Funny

MudcrabAttack · October 2020

Brenticus12 wrote: »

These players are literally bots, there isn't any other explanation to it. I can't imagine any living human who's capable of playing video games actually playing like this. I can understand if they're old/extremely young or they're disabled, but are there really that many of them in every single dungeon queue? That doesn't make any sense at all.

I wouldn't go that far with describing any people that way. You must be really jaded. I play regularly with friends and guildies who have 300cp+ and no clue about mechanics in dungeons since it's their first time there, and know little about how to dps in this game.

They're mostly casual but still following online builds, with all the right equipment and skills slotted. They're good people, my age, which is 40, not disabled, and I'm having fun hanging around with them. They're just too busy with real life to devote much time into this game, and they put just as much into it as they did their other games. They all came from the most OP builds in WOW or guild wars 2, where they were exceeding the needs in their respective roles in those games. I'm doing anywhere from 80% to 90% of the dps when grouping with these friends.

It's just this game, DPS doesn't translate well when you come from something else.

ForeverJenn · October 2020

MudcrabAttack wrote: »

Brenticus12 wrote: »

These players are literally bots, there isn't any other explanation to it. I can't imagine any living human who's capable of playing video games actually playing like this. I can understand if they're old/extremely young or they're disabled, but are there really that many of them in every single dungeon queue? That doesn't make any sense at all.

I wouldn't go that far with describing any people that way. You must be really jaded. I play regularly with friends and guildies who have 300cp+ and no clue about mechanics in dungeons since it's their first time there, and know little about how to dps in this game.

They're mostly casual but still following online builds, with all the right equipment and skills slotted. They're good people, my age, which is 40, not disabled, and I'm having fun hanging around with them. They're just too busy with real life to devote much time into this game, and they put just as much into it as they did their other games. They all came from the most OP builds in WOW or guild wars 2, where they were exceeding the needs in their respective roles in those games. I'm doing anywhere from 80% to 90% of the dps when grouping with these friends.

It's just this game, DPS doesn't translate well when you come from something else.

But your friends are probably doing 5k+ dps and doing around 10k+ as a group, which can get thru a lowbie dungeon. The people we are talking about are doing 1k each for a group total of 3k. This is referring to 5+ min boss fights where the the tank is heavy attacking and making up 40%. I took off all my gear and punched a target dummy on a tank. I got about 1k dps. If there were 3 of me, that's the type of dps we're talking about. It shouldn't be possible from someone at least attempting.

josiahva · October 2020

SidraWillowsky wrote: »

Khazek wrote: »

This might sound strange and come as a surprise but some people are good players and some people are bad players. Like any other activity on planet earth.

But there are some fights with DPS checks (Zaan and Valkyn Skoria come to mind) where I may not be able to do so.

Just FYI, you can finish HM vCoA2 with ANY amount of DPS. It doesnt matter if he destroys all the platforms...there is a small rock near the middle platform that is not hit by lava waves, if the DPS stack on there and block his rocks he throws, the tank can tank him on sandbar while the DPS range him down...it does take a tank who is able to survive a decent amount of damage, but its not that hard.

ReachHalo · October 2020

ArchMikem wrote: »

ForeverJenn wrote: »

It just baffles me. I understand one person not understanding. But all three?

There are MANY who blast through levels and CP without actually learning mechanics. I didn't even start learning about rotations and gear sets until I was Vet 3 or 5 back before CP was a thing. I quested through the game wearing mismatching dropped armor and casting magic skills while dual wielding swords.

The game doesn't do a good job teaching us, so it's up to us to help enlighten. Yknow. If they listen.

Same... My first group dungeon instance was where I Tanked vet Fungal 1, with my mother's sorrow dual wield build when I was like 200CP. Before that had no idea about builds, mag/Stam differences etc, was just winging it as a solo player, basically playing the game like Skyrim.

The nasty comments I got from that group in FG woke me up tho