Bow sorc viable at all now?

Holycannoli · July 2014

In beta the bow was a good weapon but I stopped playing not too long after launch because I needed a break. I come back and everyone is using staves with light armor, and I even got criticized for being a sorcerer using a bow and heavy armor (I use light armor + bound armor to level it so it looks heavy but their criticism of my bow may still be correct for all I know).

I'm not thrilled with the idea of splitting my points between magicka and stamina but I'm also not thrilled with paying the ridiculous cost to switch to staff and going all magicka. Plus there's some bow skills I really like like venom arrow, and my bow so far is good in PvP. I mostly use venom arrow though, at least until I get snipe and can try it out.

I guess I can go bow + staff. I'm bow + one hand/shield but only because I'm imperial and they get bonus xp for it. But if I go bow for PvP and staff for PvE I still have to split my points.

I need insight from those who have reached high VR levels and who also PvP. Is it worth me respeccing now at level 29? Is it worth maybe just waiting for the patch when respeccing is cheap? I'll drop shield because I hardly use it, but should I ignore stamina and bow skills if I PvP? What's the point of a bow in PvP if you have no points in stamina.

sajackson · July 2014

Staff + light armor is the current cookie cutter build, it's way out-doing everything not just bows. Unfortunately it also appears to be the only build that meets the dps requirements for trials, or at least that's the belief that most raid leaders have anyway.

On the good news front ZOS have acknowledged that stamina builds are currently under-performing so hopefully some buffs will be coming soon which will bring some viability back to the non light/staff setups in end game. Just have to be patient.

Holycannoli · July 2014

Yeah I don't know how soon though. Before any stamina changes we will have spellcrafting which further empowers pure magicka builds.

I heard that 1.3 will have cheap respecs for a while so I think I'll wait until then and stick with bow and sword + shield for secondary, and to hell with anyone who criticizes it.

Thejollygreenone · July 2014

Holycannoli wrote: »

Yeah I don't know how soon though. Before any stamina changes we will have spellcrafting which further empowers pure magicka builds.

I heard that 1.3 will have cheap respecs for a while so I think I'll wait until then and stick with bow and sword + shield for secondary, and to hell with anyone who criticizes it.

On the subject of spellcrafting affecting stamina/magicka balance: Yes spellcrafting will add more purely offensive creativity to pure magicka builds which stamina builds wont have access to, and that certainly can't be ignored. Honestly I'm mildly worried about it as well.

But I do have some hope, here's why:

Alteration and illusion are schools of magic that I particularly hope to play a hefty role in spellcrafting, as those two schools of magic are prime examples of some that would have boundless beneficial buff spells which could be used to benefit their pure stamina damage build.

On top of that, around the same time we have the champion system adding in passive skill trees for many of the celestial bodies (shadow/apprentice/steed etc.) adding in a whole boat load of passives, many of which surely designed to give stamina dps some of the edge they need. (See what I did there?)

Considering the champion system added passives, and the hidden benefits spellcrafting adds to stamina builds that people overlook, I think the addition of this system will do a lot of good for stamina builds, and that we should have a little faith.

Beyond that, we have more usable stamina dps oriented sets coming in 1.3, ultimate's damage scaling on either weapon or spell power depending on which you've invested in, soon enough we'll see the dark brotherhood and the thieves guilld skill trees, and even some heavy armor changes to be more usable for damage oriented builds.

And I'm sure there's even some stamina build changes that haven't been announced yet.

As to the respec reduced cost question: Yes, its been announced that for the first week of 1.3 respec costs will be reduced to dirt cheap to allow people to experiment with the changes. After the first week it will still have an overall reduced cost.

Furthermore, they've announced they're adding in a respec for just morphs, which I assume they meant comes out at the same time. But don't take my word on the when of that last part, that's just how it seemed to me from the quakecon panel.

sajackson · July 2014

It does look like they know there are problems with stamina builds so hopefully we won't have to wait too long to start seeing changes - I suspect it won't happen in one go though, probably over several patches. I also got the impression that spell-crafting would include some stamina abilities as well although there's less confirmed information about that.

I'm pretty sure ZOS weren't intending the end game large group content to be solely accessible to a tank & 11 light armour/staff users, although that does appear to be what's happened so far.

Tbh they probably need to review the damage passive on resto staves as well too, it's unnecessarily powerful for its intended use which is why everyone is cheesing it.

helium4 · July 2014

This imbalance was one of a few reasons why I stopped playing and cancelled my sub. I also hope they will fix this, otherwise I will not come back...

Tigeracer · July 2014

Hey, OP, not sure why you would use a bow with a sorcerer, but you can still make it work. The absolute best build in the game is a NB resto build. I am a NB but there is no way in oblivion that I'm going to be a dress wearing hippie that waves around a healing stick! So I'll never be the absolute greatest, but I found a way to make my build super tough anyway. I can solo dolmens, world bosses and public dungeons!!!
If you like, I can help you out with your sorc bow build. It will never be number one, but it'll sure be tough!

Also, just on a side note, PVP is very different and the bow is excellent in PVP.

booksmcread · July 2014

I leveled up through VR2 with a bow on my Sorc without any issues (restoration staff for my second weapon). The only reason I stopped using bow was to level some other weapon lines. When I do PVP, I use the same combination. Bows mix well with Sorc abilities like Surge/Critical Surge and you do get a passive to reduce the cost of stamina abilities.

I primarily use 5 medium/2 light for armor. The extra critical chance on bow skills with the reduced cost and increased recovery from medium armor is very handy. Poison Arrow and both of its morphs are very good. Scatter shot and both of its morphs are great, but just be careful with Magnum Shot as the knock self back aspect of it can put you in situations you didn't intend. Snipe is a great skill in PVP, particularly in defending keeps and when used from stealth on the open landscape.

For point allocation, when I leveled up I spread them evenly until I hit the mid VR ranks where I put all of them in health. I primarily relied on landscape drops for armor when leveling and only crafting a piece or two when I really needed them. Since you never know what enchantments you're going to get on drops, the even allocation is to try to offset the random enchantment factor.

At level 29, I wouldn't worry about what the current most optimal end-game build is. It's still a new game, things are going to change. And there is no way to know what the best build two months from now is going to be. It's good to use different weapons to have a few options when you hit higher levels. But most importantly, use what you enjoy the most.

P.S. For single landscape mobs: Crystal Shard/Fragments > Poison Arrow/Injection > Daedric/Velocious Curse > Mage's Fury/Wrath = Fireworks.

Ironblaze · July 2014

I've played a bow sorcerer (medium and heavy armor) since level 3 during the pre-launch days, and I've never felt underwhelmed or outclassed as a whole. Bow is fun as a whole. It could be I'm running with something like 25-30% crit chance, and Critical Surge heals me every time I score a crit, but that's more of a niche.

Honestly, the Sorcerer abilities I usually use anyhow are the summons, Bound Armor/Armaments, Critical Surge, and the Atronarch ultimate. None of these require much magicka spamming, so it is very much an oddball build.

Holycannoli · July 2014

So if I want to continue using my bow in PvP and switch to staff for PvE I should opt for an even distribution of magicka/stamina? I don't see why I shouldn't.

And I like the idea of using some medium armor. I can craft it as easily as light but I haven't been using it. I'm due for an armor upgrade now so maybe I'll craft myself a set and start leveling it higher.

Tigeracer wrote: »

Hey, OP, not sure why you would use a bow with a sorcerer, but you can still make it work.

It's my build from beta. In beta the bow was borderline OP in PvP, and I spent the majority of my beta time in Cyrodiil (partly because a lot of PvE was so buggy then). I took a break from the game in late April and just came back a few days ago so I missed the memo that staff + light armor was supreme. In PvE so far my bow gets the job done but people are telling me I should drop it and go with staff and full magicka build, and I'm not even a high level yet.

Tigeracer · July 2014

If you want to be top dog in this game then you probably want to conform. But, are you going to enjoy wearing a dress and waving a healing stick?
If you are enjoying your build then stick with it!

I admire anyone who sticks to what they want rather than what everyone else thinks you should do. Make the best out of what you want

Holycannoli · July 2014

Tigeracer wrote: »

If you want to be top dog in this game then you probably want to conform. But, are you going to enjoy wearing a dress and waving a healing stick?
If you are enjoying your build then stick with it!

I admire anyone who sticks to what they want rather than what everyone else thinks you should do. Make the best out of what you want

Healing staff? Is that what people are using, not destruction? How the heck is a healing staff considered par for the course?

Ok if people mean restoration staves and not destruction staves I need someone to tell me why

How are they getting top DPS with resto staff?

ArielleJureaux · July 2014

Holycannoli wrote: »

Tigeracer wrote: »

If you want to be top dog in this game then you probably want to conform. But, are you going to enjoy wearing a dress and waving a healing stick?
If you are enjoying your build then stick with it!

I admire anyone who sticks to what they want rather than what everyone else thinks you should do. Make the best out of what you want

Healing staff? Is that what people are using, not destruction? How the heck is a healing staff considered par for the course?

Ok if people mean restoration staves and not destruction staves I need someone to tell me why How are they getting top DPS with resto staff?

I would also like to know why the Resto Staff? I still don't really understand the Resto Staff, so any enlightenment would help me greatly

Erock25 · July 2014

Resto staff is good for PVE because you do 10% additional damage at 100% HP. Resto staff is good for PVP because a lot of specs use the heavy attacks for the magicka returns and these specs rely on this.

Evergnar · July 2014

Welcome to Mage Wars Online. I still primarily use bow on my Bosmer NB though. Just cause I like it. Have had fun leveling the staffs too. I refuse to wear a dress though.

Holycannoli · July 2014

Evergnar wrote: »

Welcome to Mage Wars Online. I still primarily use bow on my Bosmer NB though. Just cause I like it. Have had fun leveling the staffs too. I refuse to wear a dress though.

You can wear jerkins now.

cazlonb16_ESO · July 2014

Holycannoli wrote: »

So if I want to continue using my bow in PvP and switch to staff for PvE I should opt for an even distribution of magicka/stamina?

The best option would be to go for 49 health and use two equipment sets. One of at least 5 pieces of light armour with + magicka and the appropriate jewelry for staff, the other 5+ pieces of medium with + stamina for bow. Add food for about 350 stamina/magicka at lvl 50.

Holycannoli · July 2014

Any addons that let you easily switch between sets of gear?

cazlonb16_ESO · July 2014

I use alphatools. The site has a couple of other addons with similar functionality if you don't like it for some reason or other.

Kego · July 2014

booksmcread wrote: »

At level 29, I wouldn't worry about what the current most optimal end-game build is. It's still a new game, things are going to change. And there is no way to know what the best build two months from now is going to be. It's good to use different weapons to have a few options when you hit higher levels. But most importantly, use what you enjoy the most.

I would even say, beside Trails, you can play every Build you want and have fun with it. What doesn't means that ZOS has to bring Magicka and Stamina more in line.

CapuchinSeven · July 2014

I've been playing with the idea of an Arcane Archer and basically taking my Nightblade archer and trying it as a Sorc for fun.

Something along these lines.

http://esohead.com/calculator/skills#mMRz0g9k85oNisY8NUmo8AIUM8AIOU8injt8AISu8g7MrsXy8H7xrzf28J7xrziO8K7JLzuu6rzuN6Lzuj857zzx3TH8zf7zzNbo8zu7zzHfYE6zHfZd8zG7zzHQ3F8zI7zzJIoX6zJIkL8zN7zzJZcY8zA7zzKpUN8zL7zzK4EX

That was just something I did in a few mins though, nothing refined. The same as my Nightblade the build would be all medium armour and stamina using only magic for buffing and healing.

When I did it for fun on my Nightblade, it turned out to be the best build I'd ever run. Bow is really very good when used correctly.

Tigeracer · July 2014

Wyykids outfitter (not sure on spelling) is what I use for switching between tank and crit outfits. The skill bar part of it is buggy though, so I just use the armour/weapons/jewellery part of the addon.

Nestor · July 2014

My Sorc is Bow and Destruction Staff. I use the Staff for AoE and the Bow for Single mobs. Bow has some nice skills for stopping casters. But, I don't think I could use a Bow for my primary weapon for my Sorc. However, it serves my NB well who switches between that and 1H/S

cazlonb16_ESO · July 2014

Really depends on what content you're looking at. As a Templar or NB you can make it work quite well as primary weapon in PvP, it is sufficient but not good in solo PvE for all classes and in group/raid PvE it's pretty terrible for all classes.

Edit to clarify: this is a response to the post above mine, not the OP.

Tamanous · July 2014

ZoS really should flat out nerf the +10% to ALL damage the resto-staff offers. It is flat out stupid that players are taking that staff and getting both massive benefits to staying alive AND getting the best damage bonus in game to all your base abilities.

It needs to be reduced, removed (and an actual support passive added) or affect a far limited scope of abilities. It is flat out abused far beyond it's intent and there is zero defense against this.

This is coming from a player who loves that staff and was my first and most used weapon. Obviously this is a singular issue along side the main reasons why stamina builds of any kind are lacking. Light armor and staff as the primary and often only choice for many has to change. This game will never reach it's potential until all skill trees are viable choices (within min/max reasons). Sadly this game is falling exactly into the same pit every other open skill system game has gone. The impact on pvp is shattering because of this. When you add competitive pvp into a game everything changes. ZoS one upped this and even added competitive pve. Basically they are shooting themselves in the foot.

ZoS needs to make balancing a greater priority ... and I wouldn't say they aren't prioritizing it. The sad truth is change never comes fast enough. Players become disillusioned too fast. I would bet one of the major reasons why players cancel is finding out the way they played the game they have invested so much time into suddenly becomes obsolete and they must conform to what others demand. Being forced to abandon your concept or even change class deflates many players ambition to log into an mmo.

I really want bow and 2h at the same time on my sorc (among other combos of course eventually) but I am faced with knowing it would not compete at all against fotm builds. It would be a solo pve diversion and I would be reminded of this every time I played knowing I cannot participate on even level or even be accepted into some groups. This does not make a healthy game.

RinaldoGandolphi · July 2014

I say play whatever you want! I never turn anyone away from my groups when I need people and neither does the Guild I am in.

I play a Light Armor + DEstro Staff Breton Sorc and have done so since launch. Its not a cookie cutter build, I wanted that "Gandolph The Grey" vibe with my character, and I have always played robed mages in every TES game. I prefer mages, I like them.

Any class played correctly can be used to great effect by a skilled player. I say play whatever you want, and don't respect just because someone tells you to, you play the character you like, and enjoy the game the way you see fit, there is no right or wrong way to play, and those who say otherwise are in no position and have no right to judge or criticize the way you want to play.

There is a bow sorc in my guild that owns in PVP and I do believe was also able to complete the trials in craglorn....use Surge/Critical Surge from the Storm Calling line with you Bow...it increases not only weapon damage, but also increases the damge of weapon skills as well....you will be able to do plenty of damage doing that....Surge + Venom Shot/Snipe = a "I win button" against single targets.

Holycannoli · July 2014

I'm going to respec not because I don't want to use a bow anymore but because I want replace sword + shield which I never use. I only took it because imperials advance in it slightly faster. Bow is decent in PvE but nothing fantastic.

My bigger concern is keeping my attribute points split between all three attributes instead of concentrating on just magicka and health.

Does critical surge affect staff damage? Staves are weapons after all.

PointMaid · July 2014

One of my characters is Sorcerer, with heavy chest and leg armor, the rest cloth, and I spent points mostly magicka and health. She's currently VR1 and completing Coldharbour.

This character has died a lot less than any other class I've played, and does a lot more damage... Sorc's knockback is awesome! I haven't bothered with alternate weapons because I had no need to: my regen is good, and my crafted weapons perform well. I am playing PVE though, and my build might not be as good for PVP.

My NB (intended main) used bows, and at VR3'ish ran into situations where I could not solo mobs others had no problems with, mainly magic users. Needless to say, she's been benched until the game balance improves or something better happens.

kijima · July 2014

NB's are great with a bow, but it's AOE that helps with NPC magic users.

I've not found much in the way of resistance with my NB in PvE. Sure, there are times I have to be careful about targeting, but overall she is pretty powerful and not lacking much in PvE at all. She's VR12 now.

With the 1.3 patch you might find it viable to dust off your NB and have another go, plus vet content with the current nerfs of NPC's means it's a whole lot easier.