Force Crashing People

ForumSavant · March 18

How long does it actually take to just see someone breaking TOS and ban them? Negate exploit took weeks, potion exploit took weeks, and now there are people force crashing in cyro by whispering or posting in say/zone chat. In any game I've played, you could report someone and have them banned within less than 24 hours if they were blatantly cheating. The zone/say/whisper chat force crash is the most obvious attempt at doing harm to other players, blatantly against TOS. Reports for these people should not take more than a day to be investigated and banned, and this crash is running rampant in cyro tonight, with multiple people doing it.

silentxthreat · March 19

happened today to me. have a feeling it was a nameless guild that i would keep putting a negate down on their push

alternatelder · March 19

I remember when the chat crashing started years ago on PS, when people found out, there were numerous bans that went out thanks to everyone exploiting it. Are they typing a wall of text to force the crash? That was fixed a long time ago, but I wouldn't be surprised if it came back.

TechMaybeHic · March 19

Hmm. Someone told me to add a certain player to an ignore list because they were doing this but I never did get on and see for myself yesterday

Stridig · March 19

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

Hmm. Someone told me to add a certain player to an ignore list because they were doing this but I never did get on and see for myself yesterday

Same. I guess it makes sense now why I've been crashing in Cyrodiil recently. I've never had crash issues and have had minimal lag issues. Now I'm crashing often.

Aurielle · March 19

Was reading about it in guild chat yesterday. I haven’t experienced it personally, but it’s apparently the same individual who keeps doing it (they main a DC character, and were using an EP alt to disconnect multiple EP players via /zone). A full guild got disconnected at the same time because of him and had to fully reboot their PCs to get back in the game. The advice right now is to report and place this individual on ignore so that you don’t fall victim to his zone spam, but if this isn’t fixed, it’s only a matter of time until more people start doing it.

Aurielle · March 19

alternatelder wrote: »

I remember when the chat crashing started years ago on PS, when people found out, there were numerous bans that went out thanks to everyone exploiting it. Are they typing a wall of text to force the crash? That was fixed a long time ago, but I wouldn't be surprised if it came back.

I won’t say what characters (alphabet/script-wise) they’re using to force the crash, but this is basically it.

BenTSG · March 19

Amazing. Just when I thought I was running out of things to keep me away from PvP and keeping me from subbing

TechMaybeHic · March 19

about it in guild chat yesterday. I haven’t experienced it personally, but it’s apparently the same individual who keeps doing it (they main a DC character, and were using an EP alt to disconnect multiple EP players via /zone). A full guild got disconnected at the same time because of him and had to fully reboot their PCs to get back in the game. The advice right now is to report and place this individual on ignore so that you don’t fall victim to his zone spam, but if this isn’t fixed, it’s only a matter of time until more people start doing it.[/quote]

They were doing it to DC as well. Just goes to show, unsavory behavior crosses faction lines

[edited for profanity bypass]
For the record, original description does not bypass the filter as it let me type it out and post it

Jaraal · March 19

Aurielle wrote: »

alternatelder wrote: »

I remember when the chat crashing started years ago on PS, when people found out, there were numerous bans that went out thanks to everyone exploiting it. Are they typing a wall of text to force the crash? That was fixed a long time ago, but I wouldn't be surprised if it came back.

I won’t say what characters (alphabet/script-wise) they’re using to force the crash, but this is basically it.

And here I thought they were just trying to reach me about my extended warranty expiring. Silly me!

Sakiri · March 20

Can't report it somewhere? Like I know Blizzard used to have an email for reporting exploits and the like.

ForumSavant · March 20

Sakiri wrote: »

Can't report it somewhere? Like I know Blizzard used to have an email for reporting exploits and the like.

I am convinced they do not care about people exploiting. There was someone reported constantly, by multiple people, with undeniable proof. They never got banned, and they're literally just streaming on twitch as if nothing happened.

ZOS_Kevin · March 20

You need to place a ticket(s) in and note proof if you have it. Video, screenshots, etc. We have already actioned several people using this exploit and will continue to do so as long as we have concrete proof. You can also DM items to us to strengthen the report of exploiting. We have submitted items dms to strengthen tickets when they are made. We are also working to fix the exploit in question. We don't want ppl exploiting and ruining game experiences for others who are adhering to TOS. Sometimes it takes a bit longer than we would like, but if we have the proof, it ensures we can make the call to ban and keep those exploiting out.

Synapsis123 · March 21

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

You need to place a ticket(s) in and note proof if you have it. Video, screenshots, etc. We have already actioned several people using this exploit and will continue to do so as long as we have concrete proof. You can also DM items to us to strengthen the report of exploiting. We have submitted items dms to strengthen tickets when they are made. We are also working to fix the exploit in question. We don't want ppl exploiting and ruining game experiences for others who are adhering to TOS. Sometimes it takes a bit longer than we would like, but if we have the proof, it ensures we can make the call to ban and keep those exploiting out.

What about the seeker synthesis exploit? I know you guys fixed the exploit in the last patch, but there were players that ran it for over a week had no action was taken against them even post fix. I reported them doing that with logs and video as well. The logs showed irrefutable proof that they were using the bug.

Crown · March 21

If the ZOS team can auto ban people for using the “R” word in a group of 2, where both parties to the chat agreed on the topic and none were reported, I can’t imagine that there wouldn’t be a method to peruse and alert on logs of any whisper chat with the string in question.

We should not need to submit a ticket, the automation that detects the “R” word should be easily able to detect that string and auto ban based on it having been sent in chat.

Logs probably go to Splunk or an ELK stack or some such. Splunk is too expensive for the volume they likely have, but realistically any log mechanism could do this..

heng14rwb17_ESO · March 21

ZOS need to do better and act faster.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO · March 22

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

You need to place a ticket(s) in and note proof if you have it. Video, screenshots, etc. We have already actioned several people using this exploit and will continue to do so as long as we have concrete proof. You can also DM items to us to strengthen the report of exploiting. We have submitted items dms to strengthen tickets when they are made. We are also working to fix the exploit in question. We don't want ppl exploiting and ruining game experiences for others who are adhering to TOS. Sometimes it takes a bit longer than we would like, but if we have the proof, it ensures we can make the call to ban and keep those exploiting out.

@ZOS_Kevin 9/10 reporting a player makes absolutely no difference.
Support is unable to track account name changes and even in a player gets banned they will likely be back with a couple of weeks on appeal anyway. Actually historically players who make poor taste jokes have been banned longer than those actually harassing or seriously breaking the ToS. Your support system just doesn't work right now and hasn't for years at this point. Players generally try to even weaponize the support system against others by mass reporting or breaking ToS against someone who doesn't know the 'specific ways' the support system can be abused and then reporting the unaware player for responding to their actions.

I can't really understand how logging is not able to easily see 'Player X' type a string into zone chat and then 90% of that faction crash, log back in and then complain about crashing in zone chat. I feel this is a ZOS logging issue at this point not a player report issue.

ForumSavant · March 22

I agree wholeheartedly with the most recent comments. Many players do infact weaponize the report system, and whoever the people working at support are, seem to genuinely have an agenda they are trying to serve. I have seen people t-bag hundreds, yes hundreds of times, be reported, with video proof, and follow ups to tickets, and not receive any punishment. I have on the other hand seen people t-bag those same people in retaliation to themselves being t-bagged, and receive bans quicker, even with 0 prior history. The system makes absolutely no sense. I know for a fact there were people ABUSING to no end, the recent exploit that got patched, these people received no ban whatsoever, even though reports from several people with undeniable proof was submitted, tickets responded to, follow-ups replied to, and still nothing. The gaslighting is beyond obvious, there is more of an urgency to ban people for minor infractions than people who exploit game breaking bugs that make you next to invincible in PvP, and that's very telling of the support system as a whole.

ZOS_Kevin · March 22

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

@ZOS_Kevin 9/10 reporting a player makes absolutely no difference.
Support is unable to track account name changes and even in a player gets banned they will likely be back with a couple of weeks on appeal anyway. Actually historically players who make poor taste jokes have been banned longer than those actually harassing or seriously breaking the ToS. Your support system just doesn't work right now and hasn't for years at this point. Players generally try to even weaponize the support system against others by mass reporting or breaking ToS against someone who doesn't know the 'specific ways' the support system can be abused and then reporting the unaware player for responding to their actions.

I can't really understand how logging is not able to easily see 'Player X' type a string into zone chat and then 90% of that faction crash, log back in and then complain about crashing in zone chat. I feel this is a ZOS logging issue at this point not a player report issue.

We do want to stress that actioning someone for exploiting it is not just a black and white thing as looking at logs. We have full processes for things like this because there are a lot of things to consider when looking into these instances, including making sure that players are not trying to weaponize the reporting system. Having multiple reports cuts that time down immensely. All we're saying is reporting is the most sure fire way to make sure bad actors get removed. I personally witnessed several people being action for this exploit as a result of multiple reports being submitted.

Also with this exploit, the issue should not occur on console as we have fixed the issue there. And this issue will be resolved in the next incremental for PC.

TechMaybeHic · March 22

I'm all about giving ZOS crap, but I'll defend them here. I'm sure things are more difficult than they seem as i am sure no gaming company would willingly just let exploiters and cheaters go. I appreciate the post Kevin made, and if there is something ZOS needs in order to action on these things; I think there are a lot of players who would do what they can to help. Just need communications to do so.

Destai · March 22

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

@ZOS_Kevin 9/10 reporting a player makes absolutely no difference.
Support is unable to track account name changes and even in a player gets banned they will likely be back with a couple of weeks on appeal anyway. Actually historically players who make poor taste jokes have been banned longer than those actually harassing or seriously breaking the ToS. Your support system just doesn't work right now and hasn't for years at this point. Players generally try to even weaponize the support system against others by mass reporting or breaking ToS against someone who doesn't know the 'specific ways' the support system can be abused and then reporting the unaware player for responding to their actions.

I can't really understand how logging is not able to easily see 'Player X' type a string into zone chat and then 90% of that faction crash, log back in and then complain about crashing in zone chat. I feel this is a ZOS logging issue at this point not a player report issue.

We do want to stress that actioning someone for exploiting it is not just a black and white thing as looking at logs. We have full processes for things like this because there are a lot of things to consider when looking into these instances, including making sure that players are not trying to weaponize the reporting system. Having multiple reports cuts that time down immensely. All we're saying is reporting is the most sure fire way to make sure bad actors get removed. I personally witnessed several people being action for this exploit as a result of multiple reports being submitted.

Also with this exploit, the issue should not occur on console as we have fixed the issue there. And this issue will be resolved in the next incremental for PC.

So what’s the solution for the unending bots in base game? Like if I go to Grahtwood, I’ll see bots spamming the same gold selling service. Feels like the solution should be some in game GMs to handle issues in a more agile manner.

TaSheen · March 22

Gotta love disabling zone chat....

Techwolf_Lupindo · March 22

An update. There is a Public Trade Guild that is using that exploit to lock up the client when that guild is listed on the guild finder. I had several lockups and managed to narrow it down to just listing all the guilds with Public Trader checkmarked to list all Public Trade Guild locations. I have not yet managed to figure out what guild listing is doing it. I am quiet sure its related to the font issue. Still working on if its English only or a non-English guild.

Aurielle · March 22

Techwolf_Lupindo wrote: »

An update. There is a Public Trade Guild that is using that exploit to lock up the client when that guild is listed on the guild finder. I had several lockups and managed to narrow it down to just listing all the guilds with Public Trader checkmarked to list all Public Trade Guild locations. I have not yet managed to figure out what guild listing is doing it. I am quiet sure its related to the font issue. Still working on if its English only or a non-English guild.

If it’s the same issue as the PVP griefing, then it is almost certainly a non-English guild…

Scaletho · March 22

I've been crash a lot for no reason. Sometimes my character is just standing on an ESO city. I think this problem is very worrisome. If someone can crash you, this is a serious stuff.

Tallon_IV · March 22

Destai wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

@ZOS_Kevin 9/10 reporting a player makes absolutely no difference.
Support is unable to track account name changes and even in a player gets banned they will likely be back with a couple of weeks on appeal anyway. Actually historically players who make poor taste jokes have been banned longer than those actually harassing or seriously breaking the ToS. Your support system just doesn't work right now and hasn't for years at this point. Players generally try to even weaponize the support system against others by mass reporting or breaking ToS against someone who doesn't know the 'specific ways' the support system can be abused and then reporting the unaware player for responding to their actions.

I can't really understand how logging is not able to easily see 'Player X' type a string into zone chat and then 90% of that faction crash, log back in and then complain about crashing in zone chat. I feel this is a ZOS logging issue at this point not a player report issue.

We do want to stress that actioning someone for exploiting it is not just a black and white thing as looking at logs. We have full processes for things like this because there are a lot of things to consider when looking into these instances, including making sure that players are not trying to weaponize the reporting system. Having multiple reports cuts that time down immensely. All we're saying is reporting is the most sure fire way to make sure bad actors get removed. I personally witnessed several people being action for this exploit as a result of multiple reports being submitted.

Also with this exploit, the issue should not occur on console as we have fixed the issue there. And this issue will be resolved in the next incremental for PC.

So what’s the solution for the unending bots in base game? Like if I go to Grahtwood, I’ll see bots spamming the same gold selling service. Feels like the solution should be some in game GMs to handle issues in a more agile manner.

I've reported gold spam bots with exact time stamps (time zone included), only to see them a week or two later. I noticed because they had the little ignore icon next to their names from when I had reported them, and my ignore list is only spam bots (plus they all have the same spammy names).

Four_Fingers · March 22

I was going to say I thought they fixed this issue (on console), thanks for confirming I'm not completely crazy @ZOS_Kevin.

Destai · March 22

Tallon_IV wrote: »

Destai wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

@ZOS_Kevin 9/10 reporting a player makes absolutely no difference.
Support is unable to track account name changes and even in a player gets banned they will likely be back with a couple of weeks on appeal anyway. Actually historically players who make poor taste jokes have been banned longer than those actually harassing or seriously breaking the ToS. Your support system just doesn't work right now and hasn't for years at this point. Players generally try to even weaponize the support system against others by mass reporting or breaking ToS against someone who doesn't know the 'specific ways' the support system can be abused and then reporting the unaware player for responding to their actions.

I can't really understand how logging is not able to easily see 'Player X' type a string into zone chat and then 90% of that faction crash, log back in and then complain about crashing in zone chat. I feel this is a ZOS logging issue at this point not a player report issue.

We do want to stress that actioning someone for exploiting it is not just a black and white thing as looking at logs. We have full processes for things like this because there are a lot of things to consider when looking into these instances, including making sure that players are not trying to weaponize the reporting system. Having multiple reports cuts that time down immensely. All we're saying is reporting is the most sure fire way to make sure bad actors get removed. I personally witnessed several people being action for this exploit as a result of multiple reports being submitted.

Also with this exploit, the issue should not occur on console as we have fixed the issue there. And this issue will be resolved in the next incremental for PC.

So what’s the solution for the unending bots in base game? Like if I go to Grahtwood, I’ll see bots spamming the same gold selling service. Feels like the solution should be some in game GMs to handle issues in a more agile manner.

I've reported gold spam bots with exact time stamps (time zone included), only to see them a week or two later. I noticed because they had the little ignore icon next to their names from when I had reported them, and my ignore list is only spam bots (plus they all have the same spammy names).

They keep adjusted, albeit slightly, their text. It's human readable, but may not be detectable by Splunky or whatever they use to analyze logs. They staff moderators here to catch spam, just feels like they could do something similar in-game. Provided it's solely to target spam.

Crown · March 22

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

We do want to stress that actioning someone for exploiting it is not just a black and white thing as looking at logs.

Hi @ZOS_Kevin, your statement doesn't make sense. If someone sends someone else a whisper with the content, "IİI" and that crashes people (that string was from another game a while back, found it in a quick google search as I don't want to post the actual one in here), then it should be trivially simple for your back-end admins team to add that string to their search terms, and flag those for the TOS team to review.

We know that your teams don't like to share any information about how they do things. Based on information from other players, we are absolutely certain that there is an automation flagging terms from chats (whispers, group, and guild at least - not certain about zones) and either auto-banning or providing such details to the TOS / support team who then perform the bans. Here's a response from your team that refutes your statement as well. Please note that formal persmission to repost this was requested, and I can provide screen shot of authorization if desired.

There is no conceivable technical reason why you would need reports from people who crashed when you know the string that crashes them and there are still many using it regularly (many of us are playing offline this week as a result).

The lack of communication and clarity is (one of a few reasons) why so many of the player base feel a seething contempt towards your team(s). There is an overabundance of technical skill among us, with many dev and IT teams from other companies among the player base who would be thrilled to offer advice to help (if for whatever reason the knowledge on how to do things like this is missing at ZOS and nobody is able to use a search engine for sample code and examples).

katanagirl1 · March 23

TaSheen wrote: »

Gotta love disabling zone chat....

You can’t do this on console unless you disable ALL chat.

Glad to hear it will be fixed for console, thanks.

TaSheen · March 23

katanagirl1 wrote: »

TaSheen wrote: »

Gotta love disabling zone chat....

You can’t do this on console unless you disable ALL chat.

Glad to hear it will be fixed for console, thanks.

Oh. Well.... I've never used consoles so had no idea.

Then again, I've no use for chat in any case....