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MagBlade Theorycrafting Changes Thread

  • WacArnold
    WacArnold
    ✭✭✭
    WacArnold wrote: »
    fred4 wrote: »
    WacArnold wrote: »
    Shade, I hate that skill so much. I try anything and everything not to use it. I always double cast it and instantly teleport to it.
    This! This is why I hate the skill too, especially in lag. I'm not fond of the Merciless mini-game either.

    The alternative to using the shade is RAT and speed in general. Perhaps my build will suit you? I play a ganker who wants to brawl when she can, especially in the latest iteration. It's a build for having fun more so than be competitive at duelling. You won't kill decent players with this in a 1v1, but I really don't know what that would take. In terms of dealing with sorcs, the only thing I can recommend is fearing them like clockwork, which will sort out the mediocre ones from the good ones eventually. The only post that impressed the heck out of me and who I believe may play a truly competitive magstamblade is this one:

    [ As an aside: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/501408/stamina-nightblade-iron-cannon-pvp-build-1vx-2vx-video-max-possible-damage-build-dragonhold/p1 ]

    If you look at the stats of my build, well, they're complete s h * t, but it's a Caluurion build and the crit is decent, so there's that. It also just plays well:

    https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=191290

    The basic attack combo is Lotus Fan -> Fear (+ Caluurion) -> Soul Harvest -> Swallow Soul -> Impale.

    I used to run Zaan, but with my current bar layout I find that I back away from the target after Soul Harvest. It's more consistent damage than attacking with Concealed, which I ran before, which compensates a little for the lack of Zaan.

    So I was looking at how I could get some tankiness into the build and decided to try the recently buffed Endurance. Still testing this, but I like it. Might go back to simply Bright Throat's and Troll King, but the idea behind running the resistance pieces is to be tankier against burst.

    I've written about speed and sustain before. Very briefly, this build is optimised for perma-cloaking and casting a fair amount of RAT in cloak. You need cost reduction for that. Speed, stamina sustain and cloak has great synergy. Unless the stamplar you're facing (bane of my existence) is really, really good (and using detect pots), RAT cancelled into dodge roll into cloak gets you away from them, although you do have to juggle the direction, sometimes rolling through them. I have gotten into the habit of cancelling either RAT or Healing Ward with a dodge roll. This is doable in CP. In no CP this playstyle requires a bigger stam pool really.

    Don't underestimate the Infused health restore enchant, both for damage in such a low stat build and for the healing. You have to keep up Siphoning Attacks as well. Stacking Swallow Soul, the enchant, SA and the health regen allows you to face tank at least some templars without constantly having to break off the attack and trying to get out of range. In general with the speed and sustain, this build is about relentlessly staying on target. That said, you do have to cloak or fear and run the proper combo as appropriate. One of my mistakes has been forgetting about the resistances from the shadow skills.

    I've posted the following video before. Nothing new to see here, but in case you haven't read the whole thread. This is an earlier iteration of the build with Concealed as the main damage source and two shields, but I think it illustrates the difference speed and stam sustain makes:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dxsUVeGGLc

    Wow that speed is sexy. Im going to farm caluurion I really want to try that set as well. Like I said in an above post im starting to feel like you need something to help burst more frequent. Could you imagine how your build would be if merciless didnt take all that bs to proc and you added that?

    @WacArnold - Given you're on Xbox NA like me, if you're going to farm Caluurion definitely try to get some guildies or friends to run it with you so you can just do it quick. I really struggled to find people to run Fang Lair (Aus timezone for me doesn't help) and ended up pugging through group finder a lot and it was the slowest thing ever.

    Good lord your right been trying to run this all day so far ran it twice. No groups found and ofc nobody wants to run from my guild. I hate this game so much.
    Xbox One - North American - Ebonheart Pact
    Anti-Pop Lv 50 Magicka Nightblade Dark Elf
    WacArnold Lv 50 Magicka Templar Argonian
  • Langeston
    Langeston
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    WacArnold wrote: »
    WacArnold wrote: »
    fred4 wrote: »
    WacArnold wrote: »
    Shade, I hate that skill so much. I try anything and everything not to use it. I always double cast it and instantly teleport to it.
    This! This is why I hate the skill too, especially in lag. I'm not fond of the Merciless mini-game either.

    The alternative to using the shade is RAT and speed in general. Perhaps my build will suit you? I play a ganker who wants to brawl when she can, especially in the latest iteration. It's a build for having fun more so than be competitive at duelling. You won't kill decent players with this in a 1v1, but I really don't know what that would take. In terms of dealing with sorcs, the only thing I can recommend is fearing them like clockwork, which will sort out the mediocre ones from the good ones eventually. The only post that impressed the heck out of me and who I believe may play a truly competitive magstamblade is this one:

    [ As an aside: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/501408/stamina-nightblade-iron-cannon-pvp-build-1vx-2vx-video-max-possible-damage-build-dragonhold/p1 ]

    If you look at the stats of my build, well, they're complete s h * t, but it's a Caluurion build and the crit is decent, so there's that. It also just plays well:

    https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=191290

    The basic attack combo is Lotus Fan -> Fear (+ Caluurion) -> Soul Harvest -> Swallow Soul -> Impale.

    I used to run Zaan, but with my current bar layout I find that I back away from the target after Soul Harvest. It's more consistent damage than attacking with Concealed, which I ran before, which compensates a little for the lack of Zaan.

    So I was looking at how I could get some tankiness into the build and decided to try the recently buffed Endurance. Still testing this, but I like it. Might go back to simply Bright Throat's and Troll King, but the idea behind running the resistance pieces is to be tankier against burst.

    I've written about speed and sustain before. Very briefly, this build is optimised for perma-cloaking and casting a fair amount of RAT in cloak. You need cost reduction for that. Speed, stamina sustain and cloak has great synergy. Unless the stamplar you're facing (bane of my existence) is really, really good (and using detect pots), RAT cancelled into dodge roll into cloak gets you away from them, although you do have to juggle the direction, sometimes rolling through them. I have gotten into the habit of cancelling either RAT or Healing Ward with a dodge roll. This is doable in CP. In no CP this playstyle requires a bigger stam pool really.

    Don't underestimate the Infused health restore enchant, both for damage in such a low stat build and for the healing. You have to keep up Siphoning Attacks as well. Stacking Swallow Soul, the enchant, SA and the health regen allows you to face tank at least some templars without constantly having to break off the attack and trying to get out of range. In general with the speed and sustain, this build is about relentlessly staying on target. That said, you do have to cloak or fear and run the proper combo as appropriate. One of my mistakes has been forgetting about the resistances from the shadow skills.

    I've posted the following video before. Nothing new to see here, but in case you haven't read the whole thread. This is an earlier iteration of the build with Concealed as the main damage source and two shields, but I think it illustrates the difference speed and stam sustain makes:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dxsUVeGGLc

    Wow that speed is sexy. Im going to farm caluurion I really want to try that set as well. Like I said in an above post im starting to feel like you need something to help burst more frequent. Could you imagine how your build would be if merciless didnt take all that bs to proc and you added that?

    @WacArnold - Given you're on Xbox NA like me, if you're going to farm Caluurion definitely try to get some guildies or friends to run it with you so you can just do it quick. I really struggled to find people to run Fang Lair (Aus timezone for me doesn't help) and ended up pugging through group finder a lot and it was the slowest thing ever.

    Good lord your right been trying to run this all day so far ran it twice. No groups found and ofc nobody wants to run from my guild. I hate this game so much.

    You can farm it solo. Just cloak past the trash & kill the first 2 or 3 bosses (forget how many) until the bear. (I'm not sure if that can be soloed, but I know I sure can't do it.) You'll usually get a couple chests along the way too. It's more time consuming than a premade group, but it's probably less time consuming than using the dungeon finder. That said, I've yet to find Caluurion's to be a particularly worthwhile set, but maybe that's just me.
  • WacArnold
    WacArnold
    ✭✭✭
    Langeston wrote: »
    WacArnold wrote: »
    WacArnold wrote: »
    fred4 wrote: »
    WacArnold wrote: »
    Shade, I hate that skill so much. I try anything and everything not to use it. I always double cast it and instantly teleport to it.
    This! This is why I hate the skill too, especially in lag. I'm not fond of the Merciless mini-game either.

    The alternative to using the shade is RAT and speed in general. Perhaps my build will suit you? I play a ganker who wants to brawl when she can, especially in the latest iteration. It's a build for having fun more so than be competitive at duelling. You won't kill decent players with this in a 1v1, but I really don't know what that would take. In terms of dealing with sorcs, the only thing I can recommend is fearing them like clockwork, which will sort out the mediocre ones from the good ones eventually. The only post that impressed the heck out of me and who I believe may play a truly competitive magstamblade is this one:

    [ As an aside: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/501408/stamina-nightblade-iron-cannon-pvp-build-1vx-2vx-video-max-possible-damage-build-dragonhold/p1 ]

    If you look at the stats of my build, well, they're complete s h * t, but it's a Caluurion build and the crit is decent, so there's that. It also just plays well:

    https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=191290

    The basic attack combo is Lotus Fan -> Fear (+ Caluurion) -> Soul Harvest -> Swallow Soul -> Impale.

    I used to run Zaan, but with my current bar layout I find that I back away from the target after Soul Harvest. It's more consistent damage than attacking with Concealed, which I ran before, which compensates a little for the lack of Zaan.

    So I was looking at how I could get some tankiness into the build and decided to try the recently buffed Endurance. Still testing this, but I like it. Might go back to simply Bright Throat's and Troll King, but the idea behind running the resistance pieces is to be tankier against burst.

    I've written about speed and sustain before. Very briefly, this build is optimised for perma-cloaking and casting a fair amount of RAT in cloak. You need cost reduction for that. Speed, stamina sustain and cloak has great synergy. Unless the stamplar you're facing (bane of my existence) is really, really good (and using detect pots), RAT cancelled into dodge roll into cloak gets you away from them, although you do have to juggle the direction, sometimes rolling through them. I have gotten into the habit of cancelling either RAT or Healing Ward with a dodge roll. This is doable in CP. In no CP this playstyle requires a bigger stam pool really.

    Don't underestimate the Infused health restore enchant, both for damage in such a low stat build and for the healing. You have to keep up Siphoning Attacks as well. Stacking Swallow Soul, the enchant, SA and the health regen allows you to face tank at least some templars without constantly having to break off the attack and trying to get out of range. In general with the speed and sustain, this build is about relentlessly staying on target. That said, you do have to cloak or fear and run the proper combo as appropriate. One of my mistakes has been forgetting about the resistances from the shadow skills.

    I've posted the following video before. Nothing new to see here, but in case you haven't read the whole thread. This is an earlier iteration of the build with Concealed as the main damage source and two shields, but I think it illustrates the difference speed and stam sustain makes:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dxsUVeGGLc

    Wow that speed is sexy. Im going to farm caluurion I really want to try that set as well. Like I said in an above post im starting to feel like you need something to help burst more frequent. Could you imagine how your build would be if merciless didnt take all that bs to proc and you added that?

    @WacArnold - Given you're on Xbox NA like me, if you're going to farm Caluurion definitely try to get some guildies or friends to run it with you so you can just do it quick. I really struggled to find people to run Fang Lair (Aus timezone for me doesn't help) and ended up pugging through group finder a lot and it was the slowest thing ever.

    Good lord your right been trying to run this all day so far ran it twice. No groups found and ofc nobody wants to run from my guild. I hate this game so much.

    You can farm it solo. Just cloak past the trash & kill the first 2 or 3 bosses (forget how many) until the bear. (I'm not sure if that can be soloed, but I know I sure can't do it.) You'll usually get a couple chests along the way too. It's more time consuming than a premade group, but it's probably less time consuming than using the dungeon finder. That said, I've yet to find Caluurion's to be a particularly worthwhile set, but maybe that's just me.

    I actually found the fire staff yesterday on a trash mob if you can believe it. Luckiest drop I have ever had. This set has made all the difference for me it provides that little boost to really make combos hurt. I love this set.
    Xbox One - North American - Ebonheart Pact
    Anti-Pop Lv 50 Magicka Nightblade Dark Elf
    WacArnold Lv 50 Magicka Templar Argonian
  • Langeston
    Langeston
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    WacArnold wrote: »
    Langeston wrote: »
    WacArnold wrote: »
    WacArnold wrote: »
    fred4 wrote: »
    WacArnold wrote: »
    Shade, I hate that skill so much. I try anything and everything not to use it. I always double cast it and instantly teleport to it.
    This! This is why I hate the skill too, especially in lag. I'm not fond of the Merciless mini-game either.

    The alternative to using the shade is RAT and speed in general. Perhaps my build will suit you? I play a ganker who wants to brawl when she can, especially in the latest iteration. It's a build for having fun more so than be competitive at duelling. You won't kill decent players with this in a 1v1, but I really don't know what that would take. In terms of dealing with sorcs, the only thing I can recommend is fearing them like clockwork, which will sort out the mediocre ones from the good ones eventually. The only post that impressed the heck out of me and who I believe may play a truly competitive magstamblade is this one:

    [ As an aside: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/501408/stamina-nightblade-iron-cannon-pvp-build-1vx-2vx-video-max-possible-damage-build-dragonhold/p1 ]

    If you look at the stats of my build, well, they're complete s h * t, but it's a Caluurion build and the crit is decent, so there's that. It also just plays well:

    https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=191290

    The basic attack combo is Lotus Fan -> Fear (+ Caluurion) -> Soul Harvest -> Swallow Soul -> Impale.

    I used to run Zaan, but with my current bar layout I find that I back away from the target after Soul Harvest. It's more consistent damage than attacking with Concealed, which I ran before, which compensates a little for the lack of Zaan.

    So I was looking at how I could get some tankiness into the build and decided to try the recently buffed Endurance. Still testing this, but I like it. Might go back to simply Bright Throat's and Troll King, but the idea behind running the resistance pieces is to be tankier against burst.

    I've written about speed and sustain before. Very briefly, this build is optimised for perma-cloaking and casting a fair amount of RAT in cloak. You need cost reduction for that. Speed, stamina sustain and cloak has great synergy. Unless the stamplar you're facing (bane of my existence) is really, really good (and using detect pots), RAT cancelled into dodge roll into cloak gets you away from them, although you do have to juggle the direction, sometimes rolling through them. I have gotten into the habit of cancelling either RAT or Healing Ward with a dodge roll. This is doable in CP. In no CP this playstyle requires a bigger stam pool really.

    Don't underestimate the Infused health restore enchant, both for damage in such a low stat build and for the healing. You have to keep up Siphoning Attacks as well. Stacking Swallow Soul, the enchant, SA and the health regen allows you to face tank at least some templars without constantly having to break off the attack and trying to get out of range. In general with the speed and sustain, this build is about relentlessly staying on target. That said, you do have to cloak or fear and run the proper combo as appropriate. One of my mistakes has been forgetting about the resistances from the shadow skills.

    I've posted the following video before. Nothing new to see here, but in case you haven't read the whole thread. This is an earlier iteration of the build with Concealed as the main damage source and two shields, but I think it illustrates the difference speed and stam sustain makes:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dxsUVeGGLc

    Wow that speed is sexy. Im going to farm caluurion I really want to try that set as well. Like I said in an above post im starting to feel like you need something to help burst more frequent. Could you imagine how your build would be if merciless didnt take all that bs to proc and you added that?

    @WacArnold - Given you're on Xbox NA like me, if you're going to farm Caluurion definitely try to get some guildies or friends to run it with you so you can just do it quick. I really struggled to find people to run Fang Lair (Aus timezone for me doesn't help) and ended up pugging through group finder a lot and it was the slowest thing ever.

    Good lord your right been trying to run this all day so far ran it twice. No groups found and ofc nobody wants to run from my guild. I hate this game so much.

    You can farm it solo. Just cloak past the trash & kill the first 2 or 3 bosses (forget how many) until the bear. (I'm not sure if that can be soloed, but I know I sure can't do it.) You'll usually get a couple chests along the way too. It's more time consuming than a premade group, but it's probably less time consuming than using the dungeon finder. That said, I've yet to find Caluurion's to be a particularly worthwhile set, but maybe that's just me.

    I actually found the fire staff yesterday on a trash mob if you can believe it. Luckiest drop I have ever had. This set has made all the difference for me it provides that little boost to really make combos hurt. I love this set.

    Holy S#!^, seriously?? I still have yet to find an inferno, lol. Well, I'm glad it's working out for you. (I didn't know trash dropped set pieces either, I guess I never paid attention.)
  • fred4
    fred4
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    Was it a trash mob or a chest, I wonder?
    PC EU (EP): Magicka NB (main), Stamina NB, Stamina DK, Stamina Sorcerer, Magicka Warden, Magicka Templar, Stamina Templar
    PC NA (EP): Magicka NB
  • Mayrael
    Mayrael
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    fred4 wrote: »
    WacArnold wrote: »
    Shade, I hate that skill so much. I try anything and everything not to use it. I always double cast it and instantly teleport to it.
    This! This is why I hate the skill too, especially in lag. I'm not fond of the Merciless mini-game either.

    The alternative to using the shade is RAT and speed in general. Perhaps my build will suit you? I play a ganker who wants to brawl when she can, especially in the latest iteration. It's a build for having fun more so than be competitive at duelling. You won't kill decent players with this in a 1v1, but I really don't know what that would take. In terms of dealing with sorcs, the only thing I can recommend is fearing them like clockwork, which will sort out the mediocre ones from the good ones eventually. The only post that impressed the heck out of me and who I believe may play a truly competitive magstamblade is this one:

    [ As an aside: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/501408/stamina-nightblade-iron-cannon-pvp-build-1vx-2vx-video-max-possible-damage-build-dragonhold/p1 ]

    If you look at the stats of my build, well, they're complete s h * t, but it's a Caluurion build and the crit is decent, so there's that. It also just plays well:

    https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=191290

    The basic attack combo is Lotus Fan -> Fear (+ Caluurion) -> Soul Harvest -> Swallow Soul -> Impale.

    I used to run Zaan, but with my current bar layout I find that I back away from the target after Soul Harvest. It's more consistent damage than attacking with Concealed, which I ran before, which compensates a little for the lack of Zaan.

    So I was looking at how I could get some tankiness into the build and decided to try the recently buffed Endurance. Still testing this, but I like it. Might go back to simply Bright Throat's and Troll King, but the idea behind running the resistance pieces is to be tankier against burst.

    I've written about speed and sustain before. Very briefly, this build is optimised for perma-cloaking and casting a fair amount of RAT in cloak. You need cost reduction for that. Speed, stamina sustain and cloak has great synergy. Unless the stamplar you're facing (bane of my existence) is really, really good (and using detect pots), RAT cancelled into dodge roll into cloak gets you away from them, although you do have to juggle the direction, sometimes rolling through them. I have gotten into the habit of cancelling either RAT or Healing Ward with a dodge roll. This is doable in CP. In no CP this playstyle requires a bigger stam pool really.

    Don't underestimate the Infused health restore enchant, both for damage in such a low stat build and for the healing. You have to keep up Siphoning Attacks as well. Stacking Swallow Soul, the enchant, SA and the health regen allows you to face tank at least some templars without constantly having to break off the attack and trying to get out of range. In general with the speed and sustain, this build is about relentlessly staying on target. That said, you do have to cloak or fear and run the proper combo as appropriate. One of my mistakes has been forgetting about the resistances from the shadow skills.

    I've posted the following video before. Nothing new to see here, but in case you haven't read the whole thread. This is an earlier iteration of the build with Concealed as the main damage source and two shields, but I think it illustrates the difference speed and stam sustain makes:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dxsUVeGGLc

    Very nice build. Caluurion is very underestimated on magblades. I used to run this set since... well almost since it was introduced with very good effects. Zaan is way more situational, its devastating vs rookies, while better players know how to counter it making it waste of a slot. What I like in your setup is the speed, its very good setup for open world, not very good for 1v1s.
    Say no to Toxic Casuals!
    I am doing my best, but I am not a native speaker, sorry.


    "Difficulty scaling is desperately needed. 9 years. 6 paid expansions. 24 DLCs. 40 game changing updates including A Realm Reborn-tier overhaul of the game including a permanent CP160 gear cap and ridiculous power creep thereafter. I'm sick and tired of hearing about Cadwell Silver&Gold as a "you think you do but you don't"-tier deflection to any criticism regarding the lack of overland difficulty in the game." - @AlexanderDeLarge
  • Rianai
    Rianai
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Caluurion is hardly underestimated. Probably the set i see the most on other magblades in noCP. But not everyone wants to get carried by procs.
    Edited by Rianai on November 22, 2019 12:27PM
  • Langeston
    Langeston
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Rianai wrote: »
    Caluurion is hardly underestimated. Probably the set i see the most on other magblades in noCP. But not everyone wants to get carried by procs.

    Personally, if anything, I think caluurion is overrated. I've tried it a few times now, and every time I've found it to be fairly average compared to pretty much every other combination I run.
  • fred4
    fred4
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    ✭✭
    Rianai wrote: »
    Probably the set i see the most on other magblades in noCP. But not everyone wants to get carried by procs.
    Such a tiresome attitude. Magblade is arguably weak in the current patch and, aside from last patch's DOT-meta aberration, has been for a while. Caluurion's proc condition indicated from day one that it was meant to be controlled via Cloak and procced with something like Lotus Fan, which gets you close. Usable on other classes, but specifically tailored towards magblades nonetheless. ZOS threw us a bone with this, but the two crit bonuses are hardly ideal. All magicka would have been appreciated, so you get better shields.

    I can't really overstate how much stat I give up to make melee magblade work. Yeah, that's partially by choice. If I relied solely on the shade for movement, I'd be in much better shape, but I don't know. Caluurion isn't so much about getting easy kills as it is about enabling the whole playstyle of very high cloak sustain, stamina sustain and very high movement speed for me. It's an extremely reactive playstyle, one that let's you take opportunities on the opposite side of the battlefield, that let's you pursue streaking sorcs and even people on mounts. Couldn't do it any other way and still have decent damage. But really: Not good damage, merely decent.

    I appreciate things are a little different in no CP. Procs are relatively stronger there. I almost exclusively play in CP, by the way, and I know your comment wasn't specifically directed at me. I just think you use the tools you are given and the tools magblade has to do damage on a pure stat build are honestly pretty s h * t at present. Switch to sorc and it's immediately apparent what a powerhouse that is by comparison.
    PC EU (EP): Magicka NB (main), Stamina NB, Stamina DK, Stamina Sorcerer, Magicka Warden, Magicka Templar, Stamina Templar
    PC NA (EP): Magicka NB
  • WacArnold
    WacArnold
    ✭✭✭
    Trash mob, blue training.

    Its the same story against players that your not going to be able to kill anyways. But when your attacked by multiple people it really makes an impact in bursting the squishy guys down so you dont get overwhelmed as easily by the group. Or shortining a fight you were gonna win 1 on 1. After playing more with it i dont feel its given me an edge just a quality of life change making burst happen a little more often since harvest gets dodged so much.

    As for carried by a proc set yeah i guess your right. Oh well im not the greatest i will take a little cheese. If you dont use it somebody else will.
    Xbox One - North American - Ebonheart Pact
    Anti-Pop Lv 50 Magicka Nightblade Dark Elf
    WacArnold Lv 50 Magicka Templar Argonian
  • Iskiab
    Iskiab
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    I don’t think caluurion is cheese.

    Most of the time when people talk about cheese, honour, whatever it’s a trap. What they’re doing is rationalizing why they lost, making excuses, and trying to get other players to play in a way to their benefit.

    Sets should be used to strengthen what you’re good at or cover a weakness. In magblade’s case it’s lack of burst that you’re making up for.

    Just ignore all the baits from people who probably rerolled a fotm class, and do dumb things like have no cloak counters in pvp to make themselves stronger against other classes. It’s their own stupidity that’s their issue.
    Edited by Iskiab on November 22, 2019 5:19PM
    Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
    Havoc Warhammer - Alair
    LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
    Condemned and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
    Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten
  • Rianai
    Rianai
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Ofc a proc that hits harder than most ults while being free and off gcd is perfectly balanced.
    And if someone struggles to kill a player without Caluurion, it just proves that it is indeed a carry set.
  • Iskiab
    Iskiab
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    ✭✭✭
    Rianai wrote: »
    Ofc a proc that hits harder than most ults while being free and off gcd is perfectly balanced.
    And if someone struggles to kill a player without Caluurion, it just proves that it is indeed a carry set.

    Really? Use caluurion on a non-magblade. If your definition of cheese is needing something to kill others then stop using curse, wrath, shimmering shield, purifying light leap, frags, bugs, whip, synergies, and onslaught.

    When I see people say cheese all I think are bads who can’t adapt to the game and trying to sway opinions on their favour.
    Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
    Havoc Warhammer - Alair
    LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
    Condemned and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
    Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten
  • Rianai
    Rianai
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    When i see your posts i always have to think about that "high MMR player" who though assists grant score in death match. I wonder why ...
  • brandonv516
    brandonv516
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    Rianai wrote: »
    When i see your posts i always have to think about that "high MMR player" who though assists grant score in death match. I wonder why ...

    Assists do grant score in DM. They don't grant the win though.
  • thankyourat
    thankyourat
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    For 1vX in my opinion melee magblade has surpassed range magblade. I’m only using melee magblade now open world. I’m using my same set up of BTB/Necro/Troll King because in my opinion it gives the best combination of survivability, damage and sustain. I just switched my abilities to more melee focused abilities.

    Front bar I’m using: merciless, lotus fan, inner light, cloak, concealed, soul tether
    Back bar is: rapid regen, dampen, RAT, shade, debilitate, undo.

    I stopped using fear because it’s not reliable to Stun and land a soul harvest after. It was basically being used as a defensive stun so now instead of stunning defensively I just teleport away. My stun is either concealed from stealth or soul tether which I combine with spectral bow for really tanky targets.

    The reason I think melee is better now is because it’s just harder to exploit. With range the spammable damage is lower as well as it’s very easy for players to just disengage from you and hide behind LoS. With melee it’s harder for players to get away from you. It’s also very easy to get in and out of fights with the combination of lotus fan and shade.
  • Rianai
    Rianai
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    Rianai wrote: »
    When i see your posts i always have to think about that "high MMR player" who though assists grant score in death match. I wonder why ...

    Assists do grant score in DM. They don't grant the win though.

    Personal score yes, but not match score, which is what i'm referring to.
  • Iskiab
    Iskiab
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    Rianai wrote: »
    Rianai wrote: »
    When i see your posts i always have to think about that "high MMR player" who though assists grant score in death match. I wonder why ...

    Assists do grant score in DM. They don't grant the win though.

    Personal score yes, but not match score, which is what i'm referring to.

    So what? What does that have to do with anything.

    Yes I thought that assists contributed towards winning the game, yes I was probably the only magblade in higher MMR BGs on PC-NA. What’s your point?
    Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
    Havoc Warhammer - Alair
    LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
    Condemned and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
    Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten
  • fred4
    fred4
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    Rianai wrote: »
    Ofc a proc that hits harder than most ults while being free and off gcd is perfectly balanced.
    And if someone struggles to kill a player without Caluurion, it just proves that it is indeed a carry set.
    You forget that Caluurion, like all procs, can't crit, yet you still compare it to ultimates. Also, while Caluurion is off GCD, please tell me what other stackable burst magblade actually has?

    Sorc: Fury, Curse
    Templar: Backlash
    Warden: Shalks
    Necro: Blastbones
    DK: Yeah, well, OK
    PC EU (EP): Magicka NB (main), Stamina NB, Stamina DK, Stamina Sorcerer, Magicka Warden, Magicka Templar, Stamina Templar
    PC NA (EP): Magicka NB
  • fred4
    fred4
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    For 1vX in my opinion melee magblade has surpassed range magblade. I’m only using melee magblade now open world. I’m using my same set up of BTB/Necro/Troll King because in my opinion it gives the best combination of survivability, damage and sustain. I just switched my abilities to more melee focused abilities.

    Front bar I’m using: merciless, lotus fan, inner light, cloak, concealed, soul tether
    Back bar is: rapid regen, dampen, RAT, shade, debilitate, undo.

    I stopped using fear because it’s not reliable to Stun and land a soul harvest after. It was basically being used as a defensive stun so now instead of stunning defensively I just teleport away. My stun is either concealed from stealth or soul tether which I combine with spectral bow for really tanky targets.

    The reason I think melee is better now is because it’s just harder to exploit. With range the spammable damage is lower as well as it’s very easy for players to just disengage from you and hide behind LoS. With melee it’s harder for players to get away from you. It’s also very easy to get in and out of fights with the combination of lotus fan and shade.
    Interesting. There is a lot I agree with here. The last paragraph: Yes, yes, yes. I've always felt the melee playstyle is about staying on target to finish people off, however lately I've switched to Swallow Soul as my spammable and I use Impale. I still jump in for burst, but then either the target backs off, or I back off when they are near a group of faction mates.

    I still find Fear effective for a variety of reasons. Less experienced players get caught out. You can fear your target and the group around them, buying you a second. You can fear the flag guards around your target, making it less likely they'll immediately throw a negate. There is also the old "fear like clockwork" to run down someone's stamina consideration, which still works on some people and is harder to achieve with just Concealed.
    PC EU (EP): Magicka NB (main), Stamina NB, Stamina DK, Stamina Sorcerer, Magicka Warden, Magicka Templar, Stamina Templar
    PC NA (EP): Magicka NB
  • fred4
    fred4
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    In terms of stacking Caluurion, there are also practical issues as to how you actually do that. You have to crit with a single-target magicka ability at close range to make it work reliably. What plays best, by far, is Lotus Fan, but that skill doesn't do a lot of damage by itself. An alert player being ganked, who is not busy with something else, will almost certainly dodge roll or block, partially or fully negating both the subsequent Soul Harvest and Caluurion proc. You can force Caluurion to hit by using Fear, which is what I'm currently doing. However, as has been pointed out, the ulti delays make it so the subsequent Soul Harvest is no longer guaranteed. You also never end up in a situation where you can apply the 20% Soul Harvest damage buff to Caluurion, because Caluurion practically always reaches the target first. This is another subtle consequence of the ulti delays.

    What are the alternatives? Soul Harvest itself does not proc Caluurion. Ultimates don't. By far the most promising, in terms of burst potential, is Concealed from Cloak into Soul Harvest or Merciless. Now try to actually make that work when the target is not stationary, when they are surrounded by other players, NPCs or pets (e.g. hard to target), when they have some AOE or detection running: Lightning Form, Overwhelming Surge, Caltrops, DK Breath spamming, Magelight, those psijic orbs that target you even in cloak, Solar Barrage, constantly streaking, and so on. If nothing else you tend to lose a lot of time spamming cloak on the approach, precious time during which the target heals back to full. Even activating cloak once, to guarantee the crit, is a GCD lost and a red flag for the opponent to block and inhibit the Concealed stun or to attempt some form of detection.

    I've been toying with the thought of trying Flame Clench, but the knockback doesn't synergise with Caluurion. You need to be close to avoid the Caluurion travel time really. There is also the idea of trying Meteor, but say you do Meteor -> Fear, neither of those skills actually trigger Caluurion nor is there a guaranteed crit. When you actually use Caluurion, something that I'm guessing Rianai has never done, you discover that the set is, by ZOS' unusual foresight or by happy accident, quite amazingly well-balanced in terms of what you can and can't do with it, at least when you try to control it and use it in a skillful way.

    If you're not a skillful player, I'm not sure I'd recommend a Caluurion melee magblade. You will die a lot, as you have to get into melee range on a fundamentally squishy class. You could probably snipe-spam easier, you could play a magplar or a tanky DK, you could play a magsorc and hide behind your pets or just streak and overload. I am uncoordinated and rubbish at magsorc. A templar killed all my faction mates on a resource. I basically just face tanked him with shields, Crit Surge and Overload and won in a straight up damage exchange. That never happens to me on magblade. I always have to avoid standing in a templar's jabs, at least when the templar is good enough to have mowed down everyone else.
    Edited by fred4 on November 23, 2019 2:33AM
    PC EU (EP): Magicka NB (main), Stamina NB, Stamina DK, Stamina Sorcerer, Magicka Warden, Magicka Templar, Stamina Templar
    PC NA (EP): Magicka NB
  • Iskiab
    Iskiab
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    One thing in defense of fear is it’s great against block casters. It’s something I miss from playing a magblade.

    As a templar I use a dot and Sweeps spam which depletes their stamina fast, but it still makes classes like DKs take longer and long enough sometimes for their friends to come and intervene.

    What I’d look at Fred is invigorating drain (or the other morph that gives minor expedition). Minor expedition would fit in well with your playstyle, but I know you’ve said you don’t like vampire.
    Edited by Iskiab on November 23, 2019 3:27AM
    Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
    Havoc Warhammer - Alair
    LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
    Condemned and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
    Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten
  • brandonv516
    brandonv516
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    fred4 wrote: »
    In terms of stacking Caluurion, there are also practical issues as to how you actually do that. You have to crit with a single-target magicka ability at close range to make it work reliably. What plays best, by far, is Lotus Fan, but that skill doesn't do a lot of damage by itself. An alert player being ganked, who is not busy with something else, will almost certainly dodge roll or block, partially or fully negating both the subsequent Soul Harvest and Caluurion proc. You can force Caluurion to hit by using Fear, which is what I'm currently doing. However, as has been pointed out, the ulti delays make it so the subsequent Soul Harvest is no longer guaranteed. You also never end up in a situation where you can apply the 20% Soul Harvest damage buff to Caluurion, because Caluurion practically always reaches the target first. This is another subtle consequence of the ulti delays.

    What are the alternatives? Soul Harvest itself does not proc Caluurion. Ultimates don't. By far the most promising, in terms of burst potential, is Concealed from Cloak into Soul Harvest or Merciless. Now try to actually make that work when the target is not stationary, when they are surrounded by other players, NPCs or pets (e.g. hard to target), when they have some AOE or detection running: Lightning Form, Overwhelming Surge, Caltrops, DK Breath spamming, Magelight, those psijic orbs that target you even in cloak, Solar Barrage, constantly streaking, and so on. If nothing else you tend to lose a lot of time spamming cloak on the approach, precious time during which the target heals back to full. Even activating cloak once, to guarantee the crit, is a GCD lost and a red flag for the opponent to block and inhibit the Concealed stun or to attempt some form of detection.

    I've been toying with the thought of trying Flame Clench, but the knockback doesn't synergise with Caluurion. You need to be close to avoid the Caluurion travel time really. There is also the idea of trying Meteor, but say you do Meteor -> Fear, neither of those skills actually trigger Caluurion nor is there a guaranteed crit. When you actually use Caluurion, something that I'm guessing Rianai has never done, you discover that the set is, by ZOS' unusual foresight or by happy accident, quite amazingly well-balanced in terms of what you can and can't do with it, at least when you try to control it and use it in a skillful way.

    If you're not a skillful player, I'm not sure I'd recommend a Caluurion melee magblade. You will die a lot, as you have to get into melee range on a fundamentally squishy class. You could probably snipe-spam easier, you could play a magplar or a tanky DK, you could play a magsorc and hide behind your pets or just streak and overload. I am uncoordinated and rubbish at magsorc. A templar killed all my faction mates on a resource. I basically just face tanked him with shields, Crit Surge and Overload and won in a straight up damage exchange. That never happens to me on magblade. I always have to avoid standing in a templar's jabs, at least when the templar is good enough to have mowed down everyone else.

    Spot on with Caluurions being well-balanced. I suspect that this is why the skill has been left untouched for so long (other than bug fixes).

    It's nice to see someone analyze a play-style and to be able to relate by reading all of the same things that frustrate me with it too.
    Edited by brandonv516 on November 23, 2019 12:25PM
  • Rianai
    Rianai
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    I have used Caluurion (and still do occasionally). On a gank build that neither needs to use an ultimate nor Merciless. That set basically removes the need to actually use skills that are meant to be used to burst players down (ofc you can still combine all those for even more burst).

    The reason why i dislike many proc sets (caluurion and zaan especially ) and think they are unbalanced and "carry sets" is that unlike stat sets, they require a lot less player effort to get high value out of it. Stat sets amplify the skill dmg output by a few percent (usually 10% or less). So if someone does not know how to use his skills in oder to generate burst, those sets do nothing for a player. But with sets like Calu or Zaan all a player has to do is press a single button for potential 5-10k+ additional dmg. Yes those sets can be countered, but countering them takes more effort and resources than proccing them. Free dmg should be counterable for free and if players want those proc to land they should have to work for them, eg use cc at the right time, instead of automatically forcing the opponent to burn a quite substantial amount of resources - especially without CP - or outright killing him.

    @fred4

    You said, you don't use Merciless, because it is too difficult to use for you. Actually most proc blades i see don't seem to use it. But claiming a class lacks burst just because players choose to not use the burst aviable to the class is stupid. The fact that you can use Calu as an easy alternative just reinforces my opinion on the set.

    Magblade might not be the strongest or easiest class right now. But it is not as bad as some here claim, and the class certainly does not need to get carried by proc sets if a players knows how to utilize the tools aviable to the class itself.
  • GhostofDatthaw
    GhostofDatthaw
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    Rianai wrote: »
    Ofc a proc that hits harder than most ults while being free and off gcd is perfectly balanced.
    And if someone struggles to kill a player without Caluurion, it just proves that it is indeed a carry set.

    So what do you run then? All I see from you is a angry negative attitude right now... Calu is a carry set??? It's cheese???? It's a proc set...ok yeah. The problem is "cheese" is a joke spread down from actual top tier players. They label stuff cheese, still use it and make other weakers players feel it's "cheap" a "cheat" "cheese".

    It's honestly a meme. Every good player looks for cheese let's be real here.
  • GhostofDatthaw
    GhostofDatthaw
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    @Rianai seriously think about this. Think about the best player you know on your server.

    Do you ever think in thier theory crafting they hit a combo that was strong and go "nah I can't use that, it's too cheesy." lol come on what do you think they are trying to find in the first place.

    Some people man I swear. Get out of the cloud the "1vX" group has on you and stop trying to play with some weird self inflicted handicap when no one else does
    Edited by GhostofDatthaw on November 23, 2019 1:02PM
  • Rianai
    Rianai
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    @Rianai seriously think about this. Think about the best player you know on your server.

    Do you ever think in thier theory crafting they hit a combo that was strong and go "nah I can't use that, it's too cheesy." lol come on

    This does happen, yes. Ofc not everyone thinks like this and there are also plenty of good players who will use whatever "cheese" they can get their hands on. Which is ok. But those players are still well aware of the imbalance they are taking advantage of and usually not trying to defend it.

    Srsly, why do people act like i did offend them personally? I'm just talking about a freaking set.
    Edited by Rianai on November 23, 2019 1:11PM
  • GhostofDatthaw
    GhostofDatthaw
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    Rianai wrote: »
    @Rianai seriously think about this. Think about the best player you know on your server.

    Do you ever think in thier theory crafting they hit a combo that was strong and go "nah I can't use that, it's too cheesy." lol come on

    This does happen, yes. Ofc not everyone thinks like this and there are also plenty of good players who will use whatever "cheese" they can get their hands on. Which is ok. But those players are still well aware of the imbalance they are taking advantage of and usually not trying to defend it.

    It depends on the circumstances also. If a class is really strong atm and has a set that brings it o the next level, yeah people will admit it's "broken" or "op" but "cheese" is the word that can be twisted and people tend to misunderstand what this means. But the thing with magnb ATM is the class is not that strong so in no way is calu "broken" or "op" like as you say in your eyes you don't think it's that great, I know a few other magnbs that don't really like the set.

    Just saying the "cheese" topic with me is a joke
  • GhostofDatthaw
    GhostofDatthaw
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    I guess my main point is "cheese" can be a broad brush that new and less experienced players misunderstand. You can call anything in this game cheese if you want.

    Roll Dodge? How cheesy they just roll spend a little Stam and dodge all single target skills how cheesy!

    Blocking? How can you block so much damage, and from both resources! Also you can use a skill while blocking? How cheesy!

    Shields? So you're saying you can stack one resource and do damage and survive? OMG that is so cheesy!

    I could go one more specifically but I think you get the point in trying to make
  • Rianai
    Rianai
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    It is not like Calu ia a magblade exclusive set. Yes, it works best on that class but it is broken on other classes too for the exact same reasons. Just yesterday i had the pleasure to fight a calu magplar who wasn't very good, but if he got lucky and Calu procced on his initial toppeling -> jabs spam "combo" he could almost oneshot me. With no other set he could have put as much pressure on me. Magsorcs with Calu (it procs relatively reliable from CS) are also a thing.

    Literally anything op can be incorporated into an overal weak build, but that doesn't make it less op.
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