ExistingRug61 wrote: »This! This is why I hate the skill too, especially in lag. I'm not fond of the Merciless mini-game either.Shade, I hate that skill so much. I try anything and everything not to use it. I always double cast it and instantly teleport to it.
The alternative to using the shade is RAT and speed in general. Perhaps my build will suit you? I play a ganker who wants to brawl when she can, especially in the latest iteration. It's a build for having fun more so than be competitive at duelling. You won't kill decent players with this in a 1v1, but I really don't know what that would take. In terms of dealing with sorcs, the only thing I can recommend is fearing them like clockwork, which will sort out the mediocre ones from the good ones eventually. The only post that impressed the heck out of me and who I believe may play a truly competitive magstamblade is this one:
[ As an aside: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/501408/stamina-nightblade-iron-cannon-pvp-build-1vx-2vx-video-max-possible-damage-build-dragonhold/p1 ]
If you look at the stats of my build, well, they're complete s h * t, but it's a Caluurion build and the crit is decent, so there's that. It also just plays well:
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=191290
The basic attack combo is Lotus Fan -> Fear (+ Caluurion) -> Soul Harvest -> Swallow Soul -> Impale.
I used to run Zaan, but with my current bar layout I find that I back away from the target after Soul Harvest. It's more consistent damage than attacking with Concealed, which I ran before, which compensates a little for the lack of Zaan.
So I was looking at how I could get some tankiness into the build and decided to try the recently buffed Endurance. Still testing this, but I like it. Might go back to simply Bright Throat's and Troll King, but the idea behind running the resistance pieces is to be tankier against burst.
I've written about speed and sustain before. Very briefly, this build is optimised for perma-cloaking and casting a fair amount of RAT in cloak. You need cost reduction for that. Speed, stamina sustain and cloak has great synergy. Unless the stamplar you're facing (bane of my existence) is really, really good (and using detect pots), RAT cancelled into dodge roll into cloak gets you away from them, although you do have to juggle the direction, sometimes rolling through them. I have gotten into the habit of cancelling either RAT or Healing Ward with a dodge roll. This is doable in CP. In no CP this playstyle requires a bigger stam pool really.
Don't underestimate the Infused health restore enchant, both for damage in such a low stat build and for the healing. You have to keep up Siphoning Attacks as well. Stacking Swallow Soul, the enchant, SA and the health regen allows you to face tank at least some templars without constantly having to break off the attack and trying to get out of range. In general with the speed and sustain, this build is about relentlessly staying on target. That said, you do have to cloak or fear and run the proper combo as appropriate. One of my mistakes has been forgetting about the resistances from the shadow skills.
I've posted the following video before. Nothing new to see here, but in case you haven't read the whole thread. This is an earlier iteration of the build with Concealed as the main damage source and two shields, but I think it illustrates the difference speed and stam sustain makes:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dxsUVeGGLc
Wow that speed is sexy. Im going to farm caluurion I really want to try that set as well. Like I said in an above post im starting to feel like you need something to help burst more frequent. Could you imagine how your build would be if merciless didnt take all that bs to proc and you added that?
@WacArnold - Given you're on Xbox NA like me, if you're going to farm Caluurion definitely try to get some guildies or friends to run it with you so you can just do it quick. I really struggled to find people to run Fang Lair (Aus timezone for me doesn't help) and ended up pugging through group finder a lot and it was the slowest thing ever.
ExistingRug61 wrote: »This! This is why I hate the skill too, especially in lag. I'm not fond of the Merciless mini-game either.Shade, I hate that skill so much. I try anything and everything not to use it. I always double cast it and instantly teleport to it.
The alternative to using the shade is RAT and speed in general. Perhaps my build will suit you? I play a ganker who wants to brawl when she can, especially in the latest iteration. It's a build for having fun more so than be competitive at duelling. You won't kill decent players with this in a 1v1, but I really don't know what that would take. In terms of dealing with sorcs, the only thing I can recommend is fearing them like clockwork, which will sort out the mediocre ones from the good ones eventually. The only post that impressed the heck out of me and who I believe may play a truly competitive magstamblade is this one:
[ As an aside: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/501408/stamina-nightblade-iron-cannon-pvp-build-1vx-2vx-video-max-possible-damage-build-dragonhold/p1 ]
If you look at the stats of my build, well, they're complete s h * t, but it's a Caluurion build and the crit is decent, so there's that. It also just plays well:
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=191290
The basic attack combo is Lotus Fan -> Fear (+ Caluurion) -> Soul Harvest -> Swallow Soul -> Impale.
I used to run Zaan, but with my current bar layout I find that I back away from the target after Soul Harvest. It's more consistent damage than attacking with Concealed, which I ran before, which compensates a little for the lack of Zaan.
So I was looking at how I could get some tankiness into the build and decided to try the recently buffed Endurance. Still testing this, but I like it. Might go back to simply Bright Throat's and Troll King, but the idea behind running the resistance pieces is to be tankier against burst.
I've written about speed and sustain before. Very briefly, this build is optimised for perma-cloaking and casting a fair amount of RAT in cloak. You need cost reduction for that. Speed, stamina sustain and cloak has great synergy. Unless the stamplar you're facing (bane of my existence) is really, really good (and using detect pots), RAT cancelled into dodge roll into cloak gets you away from them, although you do have to juggle the direction, sometimes rolling through them. I have gotten into the habit of cancelling either RAT or Healing Ward with a dodge roll. This is doable in CP. In no CP this playstyle requires a bigger stam pool really.
Don't underestimate the Infused health restore enchant, both for damage in such a low stat build and for the healing. You have to keep up Siphoning Attacks as well. Stacking Swallow Soul, the enchant, SA and the health regen allows you to face tank at least some templars without constantly having to break off the attack and trying to get out of range. In general with the speed and sustain, this build is about relentlessly staying on target. That said, you do have to cloak or fear and run the proper combo as appropriate. One of my mistakes has been forgetting about the resistances from the shadow skills.
I've posted the following video before. Nothing new to see here, but in case you haven't read the whole thread. This is an earlier iteration of the build with Concealed as the main damage source and two shields, but I think it illustrates the difference speed and stam sustain makes:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dxsUVeGGLc
Wow that speed is sexy. Im going to farm caluurion I really want to try that set as well. Like I said in an above post im starting to feel like you need something to help burst more frequent. Could you imagine how your build would be if merciless didnt take all that bs to proc and you added that?
@WacArnold - Given you're on Xbox NA like me, if you're going to farm Caluurion definitely try to get some guildies or friends to run it with you so you can just do it quick. I really struggled to find people to run Fang Lair (Aus timezone for me doesn't help) and ended up pugging through group finder a lot and it was the slowest thing ever.
Good lord your right been trying to run this all day so far ran it twice. No groups found and ofc nobody wants to run from my guild. I hate this game so much.
ExistingRug61 wrote: »This! This is why I hate the skill too, especially in lag. I'm not fond of the Merciless mini-game either.Shade, I hate that skill so much. I try anything and everything not to use it. I always double cast it and instantly teleport to it.
The alternative to using the shade is RAT and speed in general. Perhaps my build will suit you? I play a ganker who wants to brawl when she can, especially in the latest iteration. It's a build for having fun more so than be competitive at duelling. You won't kill decent players with this in a 1v1, but I really don't know what that would take. In terms of dealing with sorcs, the only thing I can recommend is fearing them like clockwork, which will sort out the mediocre ones from the good ones eventually. The only post that impressed the heck out of me and who I believe may play a truly competitive magstamblade is this one:
[ As an aside: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/501408/stamina-nightblade-iron-cannon-pvp-build-1vx-2vx-video-max-possible-damage-build-dragonhold/p1 ]
If you look at the stats of my build, well, they're complete s h * t, but it's a Caluurion build and the crit is decent, so there's that. It also just plays well:
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=191290
The basic attack combo is Lotus Fan -> Fear (+ Caluurion) -> Soul Harvest -> Swallow Soul -> Impale.
I used to run Zaan, but with my current bar layout I find that I back away from the target after Soul Harvest. It's more consistent damage than attacking with Concealed, which I ran before, which compensates a little for the lack of Zaan.
So I was looking at how I could get some tankiness into the build and decided to try the recently buffed Endurance. Still testing this, but I like it. Might go back to simply Bright Throat's and Troll King, but the idea behind running the resistance pieces is to be tankier against burst.
I've written about speed and sustain before. Very briefly, this build is optimised for perma-cloaking and casting a fair amount of RAT in cloak. You need cost reduction for that. Speed, stamina sustain and cloak has great synergy. Unless the stamplar you're facing (bane of my existence) is really, really good (and using detect pots), RAT cancelled into dodge roll into cloak gets you away from them, although you do have to juggle the direction, sometimes rolling through them. I have gotten into the habit of cancelling either RAT or Healing Ward with a dodge roll. This is doable in CP. In no CP this playstyle requires a bigger stam pool really.
Don't underestimate the Infused health restore enchant, both for damage in such a low stat build and for the healing. You have to keep up Siphoning Attacks as well. Stacking Swallow Soul, the enchant, SA and the health regen allows you to face tank at least some templars without constantly having to break off the attack and trying to get out of range. In general with the speed and sustain, this build is about relentlessly staying on target. That said, you do have to cloak or fear and run the proper combo as appropriate. One of my mistakes has been forgetting about the resistances from the shadow skills.
I've posted the following video before. Nothing new to see here, but in case you haven't read the whole thread. This is an earlier iteration of the build with Concealed as the main damage source and two shields, but I think it illustrates the difference speed and stam sustain makes:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dxsUVeGGLc
Wow that speed is sexy. Im going to farm caluurion I really want to try that set as well. Like I said in an above post im starting to feel like you need something to help burst more frequent. Could you imagine how your build would be if merciless didnt take all that bs to proc and you added that?
@WacArnold - Given you're on Xbox NA like me, if you're going to farm Caluurion definitely try to get some guildies or friends to run it with you so you can just do it quick. I really struggled to find people to run Fang Lair (Aus timezone for me doesn't help) and ended up pugging through group finder a lot and it was the slowest thing ever.
Good lord your right been trying to run this all day so far ran it twice. No groups found and ofc nobody wants to run from my guild. I hate this game so much.
You can farm it solo. Just cloak past the trash & kill the first 2 or 3 bosses (forget how many) until the bear. (I'm not sure if that can be soloed, but I know I sure can't do it.) You'll usually get a couple chests along the way too. It's more time consuming than a premade group, but it's probably less time consuming than using the dungeon finder. That said, I've yet to find Caluurion's to be a particularly worthwhile set, but maybe that's just me.
ExistingRug61 wrote: »This! This is why I hate the skill too, especially in lag. I'm not fond of the Merciless mini-game either.Shade, I hate that skill so much. I try anything and everything not to use it. I always double cast it and instantly teleport to it.
The alternative to using the shade is RAT and speed in general. Perhaps my build will suit you? I play a ganker who wants to brawl when she can, especially in the latest iteration. It's a build for having fun more so than be competitive at duelling. You won't kill decent players with this in a 1v1, but I really don't know what that would take. In terms of dealing with sorcs, the only thing I can recommend is fearing them like clockwork, which will sort out the mediocre ones from the good ones eventually. The only post that impressed the heck out of me and who I believe may play a truly competitive magstamblade is this one:
[ As an aside: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/501408/stamina-nightblade-iron-cannon-pvp-build-1vx-2vx-video-max-possible-damage-build-dragonhold/p1 ]
If you look at the stats of my build, well, they're complete s h * t, but it's a Caluurion build and the crit is decent, so there's that. It also just plays well:
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=191290
The basic attack combo is Lotus Fan -> Fear (+ Caluurion) -> Soul Harvest -> Swallow Soul -> Impale.
I used to run Zaan, but with my current bar layout I find that I back away from the target after Soul Harvest. It's more consistent damage than attacking with Concealed, which I ran before, which compensates a little for the lack of Zaan.
So I was looking at how I could get some tankiness into the build and decided to try the recently buffed Endurance. Still testing this, but I like it. Might go back to simply Bright Throat's and Troll King, but the idea behind running the resistance pieces is to be tankier against burst.
I've written about speed and sustain before. Very briefly, this build is optimised for perma-cloaking and casting a fair amount of RAT in cloak. You need cost reduction for that. Speed, stamina sustain and cloak has great synergy. Unless the stamplar you're facing (bane of my existence) is really, really good (and using detect pots), RAT cancelled into dodge roll into cloak gets you away from them, although you do have to juggle the direction, sometimes rolling through them. I have gotten into the habit of cancelling either RAT or Healing Ward with a dodge roll. This is doable in CP. In no CP this playstyle requires a bigger stam pool really.
Don't underestimate the Infused health restore enchant, both for damage in such a low stat build and for the healing. You have to keep up Siphoning Attacks as well. Stacking Swallow Soul, the enchant, SA and the health regen allows you to face tank at least some templars without constantly having to break off the attack and trying to get out of range. In general with the speed and sustain, this build is about relentlessly staying on target. That said, you do have to cloak or fear and run the proper combo as appropriate. One of my mistakes has been forgetting about the resistances from the shadow skills.
I've posted the following video before. Nothing new to see here, but in case you haven't read the whole thread. This is an earlier iteration of the build with Concealed as the main damage source and two shields, but I think it illustrates the difference speed and stam sustain makes:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dxsUVeGGLc
Wow that speed is sexy. Im going to farm caluurion I really want to try that set as well. Like I said in an above post im starting to feel like you need something to help burst more frequent. Could you imagine how your build would be if merciless didnt take all that bs to proc and you added that?
@WacArnold - Given you're on Xbox NA like me, if you're going to farm Caluurion definitely try to get some guildies or friends to run it with you so you can just do it quick. I really struggled to find people to run Fang Lair (Aus timezone for me doesn't help) and ended up pugging through group finder a lot and it was the slowest thing ever.
Good lord your right been trying to run this all day so far ran it twice. No groups found and ofc nobody wants to run from my guild. I hate this game so much.
You can farm it solo. Just cloak past the trash & kill the first 2 or 3 bosses (forget how many) until the bear. (I'm not sure if that can be soloed, but I know I sure can't do it.) You'll usually get a couple chests along the way too. It's more time consuming than a premade group, but it's probably less time consuming than using the dungeon finder. That said, I've yet to find Caluurion's to be a particularly worthwhile set, but maybe that's just me.
I actually found the fire staff yesterday on a trash mob if you can believe it. Luckiest drop I have ever had. This set has made all the difference for me it provides that little boost to really make combos hurt. I love this set.
This! This is why I hate the skill too, especially in lag. I'm not fond of the Merciless mini-game either.Shade, I hate that skill so much. I try anything and everything not to use it. I always double cast it and instantly teleport to it.
The alternative to using the shade is RAT and speed in general. Perhaps my build will suit you? I play a ganker who wants to brawl when she can, especially in the latest iteration. It's a build for having fun more so than be competitive at duelling. You won't kill decent players with this in a 1v1, but I really don't know what that would take. In terms of dealing with sorcs, the only thing I can recommend is fearing them like clockwork, which will sort out the mediocre ones from the good ones eventually. The only post that impressed the heck out of me and who I believe may play a truly competitive magstamblade is this one:
[ As an aside: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/501408/stamina-nightblade-iron-cannon-pvp-build-1vx-2vx-video-max-possible-damage-build-dragonhold/p1 ]
If you look at the stats of my build, well, they're complete s h * t, but it's a Caluurion build and the crit is decent, so there's that. It also just plays well:
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=191290
The basic attack combo is Lotus Fan -> Fear (+ Caluurion) -> Soul Harvest -> Swallow Soul -> Impale.
I used to run Zaan, but with my current bar layout I find that I back away from the target after Soul Harvest. It's more consistent damage than attacking with Concealed, which I ran before, which compensates a little for the lack of Zaan.
So I was looking at how I could get some tankiness into the build and decided to try the recently buffed Endurance. Still testing this, but I like it. Might go back to simply Bright Throat's and Troll King, but the idea behind running the resistance pieces is to be tankier against burst.
I've written about speed and sustain before. Very briefly, this build is optimised for perma-cloaking and casting a fair amount of RAT in cloak. You need cost reduction for that. Speed, stamina sustain and cloak has great synergy. Unless the stamplar you're facing (bane of my existence) is really, really good (and using detect pots), RAT cancelled into dodge roll into cloak gets you away from them, although you do have to juggle the direction, sometimes rolling through them. I have gotten into the habit of cancelling either RAT or Healing Ward with a dodge roll. This is doable in CP. In no CP this playstyle requires a bigger stam pool really.
Don't underestimate the Infused health restore enchant, both for damage in such a low stat build and for the healing. You have to keep up Siphoning Attacks as well. Stacking Swallow Soul, the enchant, SA and the health regen allows you to face tank at least some templars without constantly having to break off the attack and trying to get out of range. In general with the speed and sustain, this build is about relentlessly staying on target. That said, you do have to cloak or fear and run the proper combo as appropriate. One of my mistakes has been forgetting about the resistances from the shadow skills.
I've posted the following video before. Nothing new to see here, but in case you haven't read the whole thread. This is an earlier iteration of the build with Concealed as the main damage source and two shields, but I think it illustrates the difference speed and stam sustain makes:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dxsUVeGGLc
Caluurion is hardly underestimated. Probably the set i see the most on other magblades in noCP. But not everyone wants to get carried by procs.
Such a tiresome attitude. Magblade is arguably weak in the current patch and, aside from last patch's DOT-meta aberration, has been for a while. Caluurion's proc condition indicated from day one that it was meant to be controlled via Cloak and procced with something like Lotus Fan, which gets you close. Usable on other classes, but specifically tailored towards magblades nonetheless. ZOS threw us a bone with this, but the two crit bonuses are hardly ideal. All magicka would have been appreciated, so you get better shields.Probably the set i see the most on other magblades in noCP. But not everyone wants to get carried by procs.
Ofc a proc that hits harder than most ults while being free and off gcd is perfectly balanced.
And if someone struggles to kill a player without Caluurion, it just proves that it is indeed a carry set.
brandonv516 wrote: »
brandonv516 wrote: »
Personal score yes, but not match score, which is what i'm referring to.
You forget that Caluurion, like all procs, can't crit, yet you still compare it to ultimates. Also, while Caluurion is off GCD, please tell me what other stackable burst magblade actually has?Ofc a proc that hits harder than most ults while being free and off gcd is perfectly balanced.
And if someone struggles to kill a player without Caluurion, it just proves that it is indeed a carry set.
Interesting. There is a lot I agree with here. The last paragraph: Yes, yes, yes. I've always felt the melee playstyle is about staying on target to finish people off, however lately I've switched to Swallow Soul as my spammable and I use Impale. I still jump in for burst, but then either the target backs off, or I back off when they are near a group of faction mates.thankyourat wrote: »For 1vX in my opinion melee magblade has surpassed range magblade. I’m only using melee magblade now open world. I’m using my same set up of BTB/Necro/Troll King because in my opinion it gives the best combination of survivability, damage and sustain. I just switched my abilities to more melee focused abilities.
Front bar I’m using: merciless, lotus fan, inner light, cloak, concealed, soul tether
Back bar is: rapid regen, dampen, RAT, shade, debilitate, undo.
I stopped using fear because it’s not reliable to Stun and land a soul harvest after. It was basically being used as a defensive stun so now instead of stunning defensively I just teleport away. My stun is either concealed from stealth or soul tether which I combine with spectral bow for really tanky targets.
The reason I think melee is better now is because it’s just harder to exploit. With range the spammable damage is lower as well as it’s very easy for players to just disengage from you and hide behind LoS. With melee it’s harder for players to get away from you. It’s also very easy to get in and out of fights with the combination of lotus fan and shade.
In terms of stacking Caluurion, there are also practical issues as to how you actually do that. You have to crit with a single-target magicka ability at close range to make it work reliably. What plays best, by far, is Lotus Fan, but that skill doesn't do a lot of damage by itself. An alert player being ganked, who is not busy with something else, will almost certainly dodge roll or block, partially or fully negating both the subsequent Soul Harvest and Caluurion proc. You can force Caluurion to hit by using Fear, which is what I'm currently doing. However, as has been pointed out, the ulti delays make it so the subsequent Soul Harvest is no longer guaranteed. You also never end up in a situation where you can apply the 20% Soul Harvest damage buff to Caluurion, because Caluurion practically always reaches the target first. This is another subtle consequence of the ulti delays.
What are the alternatives? Soul Harvest itself does not proc Caluurion. Ultimates don't. By far the most promising, in terms of burst potential, is Concealed from Cloak into Soul Harvest or Merciless. Now try to actually make that work when the target is not stationary, when they are surrounded by other players, NPCs or pets (e.g. hard to target), when they have some AOE or detection running: Lightning Form, Overwhelming Surge, Caltrops, DK Breath spamming, Magelight, those psijic orbs that target you even in cloak, Solar Barrage, constantly streaking, and so on. If nothing else you tend to lose a lot of time spamming cloak on the approach, precious time during which the target heals back to full. Even activating cloak once, to guarantee the crit, is a GCD lost and a red flag for the opponent to block and inhibit the Concealed stun or to attempt some form of detection.
I've been toying with the thought of trying Flame Clench, but the knockback doesn't synergise with Caluurion. You need to be close to avoid the Caluurion travel time really. There is also the idea of trying Meteor, but say you do Meteor -> Fear, neither of those skills actually trigger Caluurion nor is there a guaranteed crit. When you actually use Caluurion, something that I'm guessing Rianai has never done, you discover that the set is, by ZOS' unusual foresight or by happy accident, quite amazingly well-balanced in terms of what you can and can't do with it, at least when you try to control it and use it in a skillful way.
If you're not a skillful player, I'm not sure I'd recommend a Caluurion melee magblade. You will die a lot, as you have to get into melee range on a fundamentally squishy class. You could probably snipe-spam easier, you could play a magplar or a tanky DK, you could play a magsorc and hide behind your pets or just streak and overload. I am uncoordinated and rubbish at magsorc. A templar killed all my faction mates on a resource. I basically just face tanked him with shields, Crit Surge and Overload and won in a straight up damage exchange. That never happens to me on magblade. I always have to avoid standing in a templar's jabs, at least when the templar is good enough to have mowed down everyone else.
Ofc a proc that hits harder than most ults while being free and off gcd is perfectly balanced.
And if someone struggles to kill a player without Caluurion, it just proves that it is indeed a carry set.
GhostofDatthaw wrote: »@Rianai seriously think about this. Think about the best player you know on your server.
Do you ever think in thier theory crafting they hit a combo that was strong and go "nah I can't use that, it's too cheesy." lol come on
GhostofDatthaw wrote: »@Rianai seriously think about this. Think about the best player you know on your server.
Do you ever think in thier theory crafting they hit a combo that was strong and go "nah I can't use that, it's too cheesy." lol come on
This does happen, yes. Ofc not everyone thinks like this and there are also plenty of good players who will use whatever "cheese" they can get their hands on. Which is ok. But those players are still well aware of the imbalance they are taking advantage of and usually not trying to defend it.